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  1. #1
    Daniel the Dog
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    Awesome but boring Turners....

    I had my Turner up close to a Ellsworth Epiphany the other day. The Ellsworth had such pretty rockers, awesome paint, and manipulated tubing. My Turner is straight tubing with fairly boring paint with grease leaking onto the paint. BUT, I would not trade that old fashioned but gorgeous for an Ellsworth for anything. I'm just used to my bike. I have no stickers. I have had people ask me if it is a Giant, Trek, and even a Norco. On group rides, unless a guy is knowledgable, people completely ignore my bike. I had some riders gawking at a freaking Cannondale over my bike. I could not give a crap! My Turner will be spinning my tail up the hill when that Cannondale is squeeking and all beat to crap.

    Jaybo

  2. #2
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    My favorite thing about my RFX is the simplicity. I love how "basic" it looks. The new Smoke paint on the Epiphany looks ugly as hell in my opinion. Ellsworth single color anodizing sure does look nice though. I hate the laser etched graphics as well.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  3. #3
    Toby Wong?
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    Tools - Not Jewels.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    ..I have had people ask me if it is a Giant, Trek, and even a Norco...
    ...what? No Kona? Geez

    ...honestly tho, there are bikes out there that I think are aesthetically pleasing...but the EW is definitely NOT one of them. I think their rockers look like cheap knock-offs personally. I still think the Turner is one of the most elegantly simple & classically hot looking designs out there...of course this is all just icing anyhoo. The bikes flat rip


  5. #5
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    you call it boring I call it timeless. Take a peek at any Turner you don't ask yourself what year it is. It' a Turner.

    Now most brands inclunding ellsworse change tiny details to make last year models obsolete. I'm very fond of my Turner lack of gimmicks plus it's tweakable to death. The recent explosion of Frankenturners is the perfect illustration.
    Former Homer...Ventana convert: extreme poseur!

  6. #6
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    this one is nice: "the recent explosion of Frankenturners"
    I like the idea of creative technical user interaction leading to some Turner diversification ....

  7. #7
    NDO
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    Turner talk

    I thought about stripping the stickers to go stealth-mode as I like a minimalist look, however, black bikes are two-a-penny and no stickers would make it harder to recover the bike if it was nicked. Fact is most riders - and thieves - in NZ don't know what a Turner is anyway.

    I only get stopped by people who are in the know, are scrapping together the loot and want reassurance they are doing the right thing. In these circumstances you have got to be happy to talk Turner.
    Kia ora (Good health)

  8. #8
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    I remember reading in Dirtrag how the rockers on the Moment take six hours to make on the CNC machine. If this is true, then you know where your money is going when you buy one of those things. That is just retardly inefficient and diminishing returns, provided it's true. I've seen large and intricate items made in half the time on one of those things.

    I'd also rather not put money into this guy's pocket due to posts from his management like thiswith a great Jayem retort that says it all:
    This is the difference between turner and ellsworth.

    Dave Turner does not blatently misrepresent other bike manufacturers. He and his company simply stay out of it.

    You on the other hand, are so concerned about trying to get an "edge" on everybody else that you are more inclined to try and "bend" the truth when no one is looking, and I'm not referring to the frame.
    And this, which was answered in kind by Jayem as well:
    I understand you may be new to bikes dave, but extruded tubes are how you get some of the wild shapes out there. Extruded front ends like on the Aeon bikes...you know...

    Another funny thing is that my SAPA tubes are shaped. The ST, DT and TT. Funny, I guess you AND tony are wrong.

    You just can't pass up any opportunity to slam your closest competitor can you?
    It's funny because these two posts, in addition to some threads referenced from a long time ago have been used to tip the scales in the favor of Turner when I'm asked to help someone decide between the two. In that respect, Turner should thank EW for his free, misinformation based advertising that sells more Turners.

  9. #9
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    I think their rockers look like cheap knock-offs personally.
    I agree with JNC - I think the Ellsworth rockers are eyesores. Particularly with the shock mount not being inverted. I do think the older Ellsworth ano jobs were impressive, though.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    I agree with JNC - I think the Ellsworth rockers are eyesores. Particularly with the shock mount not being inverted. I do think the older Ellsworth ano jobs were impressive, though.
    I think the Moment rockers on my brother's bike look quite nice. Maybe it is just the finish, but they look pretty cool. They do look like they might be weak though. What I can't stand about the Ells are the pivots. They look so cheap and flexy. The interface is terrible, looks like something a 6 year old would make from legos. The horst pivot especially. Even SpecialEd's horst is much nicer.

    Nice job JC on those quotes, Jayem can be a riot at times.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  11. #11
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    Unfortunately that's the reality DT had and has to deal with everyday for much of the last few years. Can't forget the time the UK distributor started spreading lies about Turner when he thought no one was looking.

    Bottom line is the esteem DT holds from the industry, as well as the dealer and customer base.

  12. #12
    gravity curmudgeon
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    Understated styling is my preference for bikes and cars, for that matter. Function speaks far more than bling ... not that there's anything wrong with that.

  13. #13
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    I agree - turners are understated but still great looking - i drive an audi a6 that is over 6yrs old but imo looks nice and is timeless - drives great without the flash..i see turners that way too....

  14. #14
    Knomer
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    Boy, if I hear any more "lemons into lemonade" rhetoric I'm gonna hurl.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  15. #15
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    The old shot peened Ells bikes looked nice, but their new ****e is hideous IMO.

    I think Turners are easily among the best looking bikes around.

  16. #16
    Too Much Fun
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    Word up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I had my Turner up close to a Ellsworth Epiphany the other day. The Ellsworth had such pretty rockers, awesome paint, and manipulated tubing. My Turner is straight tubing with fairly boring paint with grease leaking onto the paint. BUT, I would not trade that old fashioned but gorgeous for an Ellsworth for anything. I'm just used to my bike.
    While I'm not a card carrying member of Homer Nation, I will say that in addition to liking the Turner ride I also really love the straight up, no chaser school of frame design that DT adheres to with his bikes. They are built for getting ****t done on on the trail and thats what its all about.


    ...As an aside, I wish he offered more polished and "Highline style" natural finishes on all his frames. I used to love the sick paintjobs back in the day but after riding bare metal Ti bikes for years now I just like seeing the bare stuff, especially when filthy. Show me the METAL.
    - -benja- -

  17. #17
    MK_
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    I absolutely love the look of the RFX classic. In black. Mmmmmmmm...

    The 5 Spot looks alright, the Burner looks kinda cheap. But that RFX classic, that's a beauty.

    I would agree that Turner finish isn't the prettiest on the market, although I really like their logo treatment. Definatelly nicer than Ventana. And I really hate the ells lettering.

    A funny story, one of my regular riding butties has a pretty beat up Giant AC2. We went out riding the other day in a local trail network off of Left Hand Canyon (Boulder area) where the trail is predominately utilized by 4x4 rock crawlers and crosses a shooting range, among others. Lots of big ol' dudes holding their Buds in one hand and navigating the rocks with the other. Some are shuting AKs. As we pass by, my buddy got a gazillion complements "Man, that's a sick Giant!" and so on. Noone even looked at my ultra spendy Spot.

    _MK
    .
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
    -- Einstein, Albert

  18. #18
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    Thanks

    I am glad you guys like the understated looks of my frame designes. Yes they are tools for working the dirt with, and years from now they will still be working and I don't wanna get caught up in the latest tribal tatoo look or flames or goth or whatever as the frames are supposed to outlast the fashion trends. For rich guys like Dusty who will never ride a bike for more than a year or two flashy finishes and advertising claims are fine, but for the rest of the hard working wholesome salt of the earth kinda riders my plain ole designs have found a home-r.

    DT

  19. #19
    Just Grin and HUCK it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Boy, if I hear any more "lemons into lemonade" rhetoric I'm gonna hurl.
    Ummmm, I don't think we're dealing with lemons here Mr. Buttmunch. There are plenty of other bikes that could be considered 'lemons' but Turner is not one of them.

    I'm just sayin'....
    MCM# 2007.1

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    For rich guys like Dusty who will never ride a bike for more than a year or two flashy finishes and advertising claims are fine, but for the rest of the hard working wholesome salt of the earth kinda riders my plain ole designs have found a home-r.

    DT
    Interestingly enough though, DT..... Dustbag Bottoms sustained this itty bitty, teensy weensie, little dent on his squeaky pivoted, Blur a few weeks back. He was so distraught that he was going to try and get a warranty replacement out of SC. Consider yourself blessed that this scumbag is not on one of your fine steeds.


    BTW, speaking of ********s...I have ridden with SmEllsworth a few times... and I have to say it has been an exercise in futility to get you to come down and pedal with us.

    C'monnnnnnnnnnnnnn dude!
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 05-12-2006 at 01:26 PM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I remember reading in Dirtrag how the rockers on the Moment take six hours to make on the CNC machine. If this is true, then you know where your money is going when you buy one of those things. That is just retardly inefficient and diminishing returns, provided it's true. I've seen large and intricate items made in half the time on one of those things.
    Six hours? ROFLOL.

    That is either incorrect or Ells has the worst CNC process in the world. What are they using to CNC...... a hand drill?

    If it really did take 6 hours, the rockers would cost more than the frame

  22. #22
    Outcast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Six hours? ROFLOL.

    That is either incorrect or Ells has the worst CNC process in the world. What are they using to CNC...... a hand drill?

    If it really did take 6 hours, the rockers would cost more than the frame
    I never thought I'd say this but, "in defense of ellsworth" [GASP!] there aren't a lot of flat surfaces on the exterior surfaces of ellsworth rockers, I believe they are all curved surfaces, so every side gets machined, so there are several fixtures that a rocker has to be mounted to, machined, taken out of, mounted to in another machine, etc., so there is some labor involved. I'm not saying it's smart , just that it's time consuming.
    ****

  23. #23
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    Boy, if I hear any more "lemons into lemonade" rhetoric I'm gonna hurl.

    Who'd have thought that the Turner forum is the bane of Dusty, and not the other way as everyone seems to think....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Yes they are tools for working the dirt with, and years from now they will still be working and I don't wanna get caught up in the latest tribal tatoo look or flames or goth or whatever as the frames are supposed to outlast the fashion trends.
    Nice. Thanks for the new sig Dave. I needed one now that the 29"er is well underway!
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Six hours? ROFLOL.

    That is either incorrect or Ells has the worst CNC process in the world. What are they using to CNC...... a hand drill?

    If it really did take 6 hours, the rockers would cost more than the frame
    From Dirtrag, Issue 119:

    But what exactly makes this frame cost so much? It's in the details-like the six hours of machining time required on the CNC'd 7075 aluminium rocker arm.
    These things add up quickly, and rightfully so.
    Now the paradox of this review is the itemization that followed the above quotes, ending with:
    I'm here to report the Moment wasn't without its problems, as it arrived with its rear triangle out of alignment...I continued to ride despite the flaw, realizing the defect was cosmetic. The only performance disadvantage I detected was tire rub on the stay during hard cornering.
    I agree about the machine work cost. The costs would be way up there, along with only being able to make about 400-500 sets of rockers a year, per machine.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 05-12-2006 at 03:32 PM.

  26. #26
    Bite Me.
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    BORING! I defy ANYONE to call this bike boring. Compared to all the run of the mill, off the shelf, standard build Santa Cruz Blur XT Enduro kits, Specialized Epics, Stumpjumpers, Reigns - C'mon - a custom spec'ed CLASSIC black Turner Spot. BORING? NOT!!! Unless you'd call Michelangelo's David boring cuz it's old...
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  27. #27
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    'Nuff said
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Six hours? ROFLOL.

    That is either incorrect or Ells has the worst CNC process in the world. What are they using to CNC...... a hand drill?

    If it really did take 6 hours, the rockers would cost more than the frame

    For your reading pleasure, once again, nice job JC

    http://www.dirtrag.com/print/article...=stuff_reviews
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  29. #29
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    Ditto regarding the understated totally functional design - I love it. And I like that other better known brands are going to be stolen before mine.

    Also from NZ - on my first ride on my '05 Spot (Queen Charlotte walkway - 76km) we met a crew of riders from the UK. One was on Fisher Sugar and was drooling over my friends Cake 1 DLX. I sat on my Spot and then quietly rode off on my stealthy black bike that I know rides better than the Cake - no problem for me. Said Cake rider was laughing his head off later over this too - he's currently building up a Flux for his wife, possibly a prelude to UGI for himself.

    Turner bikes now no longer unknown here in Nelson - its a small town of 70,000. I know of 3 Spot riders, 5 Fluxes and 3 more Fluxes are being built up in a LBS right now. Never seen that E brand locally tho.

  30. #30
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    Boring?!?

    whats the word......vain. Vanity.
    I have this plain grey RFX in my garage my neighbors think is an old 'salvaged' bike from goodwill. Not even a clue I paid more for it than my GF paid for her last car!
    Lovely.
    So when the neighbors teenage son & hoodlum freinds are looking for somethin to swipe for pot money, they aint gonna even bother w/ the Turner ( at least I pray so)
    But when I throw my leg over the RFX,
    I know what its all about-the energy level picks up just sitting on the bike in the garage. THAT is what the Turner is all about, IMHO. The Turnuthianish way :0 lol
    John
    Beer has food value. Food has no beer value.

  31. #31
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    DirtRag

    has a correction for the six hour CNC time for the rockers. It is 1/2 hour per rocker.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    For your reading pleasure, once again, nice job JC

    http://www.dirtrag.com/print/article...=stuff_reviews

  32. #32
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    Wow, that hour per rocker really adds up to overpricing!

  33. #33
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    Substance over style

    Turner ~ the Porsche of the bike world.

    Although its lead test driver does ride a Rocky Mountain...
    Cheers,

    Robbo

    Eat my shorts, build a bridge and get over it - Devil

  34. #34
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    Rockers...

    I too love the simplicity of the Turner design. Now I have one that actually fits me perfectly, it'll be many years before I change.

    The really funny thing is that for all the ostentation of an Ellsworth rocker, they fail to do the thing that the cleaner looking Turner rocker does; curve in to meet the top shock mount. It's this kind of clean and well thought out design that makes Turner a cut-above.

    Ellsworth fill in the gaps with some pointless carbon spacers. Says it all really...
    'The Fear' is your friend...

  35. #35
    falling off since 1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_
    The 5 Spot looks alright, the Burner looks kinda cheap.
    Over on the Singletrack forum they're having a laugh at some guy selling a GT STS on ebay that's loaded with modern parts.

    The other weekend as we sat outside a cafe eating cake at the end of a fun ride the fashion concious MTB kids were eyeing up my wifes ten-year old Burner, now equipped with modern Fox forks.shock and disc brakes, and decided that it as "cool".

  36. #36
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    Having drooled over Deanos new 5spot at the weekend I can truely say that these bikes look as good as ever. The first Turner I saw was nick3216 Burner and remember how cool that looked to me as a 16 year old boy!

    That aside, I still think Nicks tandem is the coolest Turner ever.

    P::..

  37. #37
    Knomer
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    I am glad you guys like the understated looks of my frame designes. Yes they are tools for working the dirt with, and years from now they will still be working and I don't wanna get caught up in the latest tribal tatoo look or flames or goth or whatever as the frames are supposed to outlast the fashion trends. For rich guys like Dusty who will never ride a bike for more than a year or two flashy finishes and advertising claims are fine, but for the rest of the hard working wholesome salt of the earth kinda riders my plain ole designs have found a home-r.

    DT
    Hey! I've been riding the same bikes for 3 years now!

    Just because you've had an ineffective marketing campaign since the inception of your company, doesn't mean that marketing should be viewed as a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    Interestingly enough though, DT..... Dustbag Bottoms sustained this itty bitty, teensy weensie, little dent on his squeaky pivoted, Blur a few weeks back. He was so distraught that he was going to try and get a warranty replacement out of SC. Consider yourself blessed that this scumbag is not on one of your fine steeds.[/B]
    Settle down Beavis. I learned a long time ago, when Monty is your LBS guy, you let him do the talking. The guy seems to pull new frames out of his arse. But he laughed at my frame dent, so I must decide bewteen a Spot or the 07 mkIII. I can't imagine all the flaws I'd find on a Turner if I actually owned one. Lucky for you I'm in between Turner sizes.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  38. #38
    Lay off the Levers
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    Oh lawwwdy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms
    ...Hey! I've been riding the same bikes for 3 years now!
    ...I must decide bewteen a Spot or the 07 mkIII.... Lucky for you I'm in between Turner sizes.
    Lucky indeed!
    Do us a favor Dusty. If you do decide to get a Turner, please alert Air Traffic Control... All those pigs are going to be a hazzard to avaiation.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

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