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  1. #1
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    Avy vs pushed DHX (Scuba?)

    Scuba- I thought i saw you post you have had both the Avy piggyback and a Pushed DHX which you like the most. Could you give us a comparison (again i'm sure)?

    Is it too much to ask to get a rear shock with hi and low speed compression without all the other air pressure BS??? Avy seems to be the only one!!

    For a 125lb ferrett who rides frozen snowy trails one day and big jumps the next i want to be able to go crazy plush low speed and have decent mid/high speed damping for the hits.

    Natrually my DHX air is temporary and will probably stick around for backup and long XC days.

    Funny- the Van R i just slapped on feels awesome! But no compression adjustment whatsoever. It feels like it's plush with a little pro pedal and some automatic bottoming control damping that keeps it from hitting hard.

    I loved my Pushed RC....anyone got a 8.875 x 2.25 RC?

    Krispy
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  2. #2
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    Push'd DHX

    Hi my name is scuba and I'm a shockoholic:


    Yup, I do have them in my collection . I've only had the Avy for a month and I think it is a really good shock. I had mine valved with compression damping on the soft side and dual stage rebound for successive high speed hits. Shock feels super plush and rebound seems a little slow on pavement but not as slow and a Push'd DHX, on pavement. The Push'd DHX feels dead on pavement but comes alive when the going gets fast and rough. The Push'd DHX feels a little firm compared to the Avy on low speed hits (single track) but performs neticeably better than the Avy on fast DH. All three shocks give you the feeling that the rear is glued to the ground but the Push'd DHX outperforms the Avy and DB in this regard. (I've also tried a stock DHXc & DHXa, Push'd RP3 on my Pack.)

    So in summary, I like the Push'd DHX most. You really don't have to worry about the air pressure, reservoir volume, propedal BS on a PUSH'd DHX. Air pressure and reservoir volume is set for you with your bike, riding style, rider weight already taken into account. Matter of fact, the Avy uses air in the reservoir also, you just can't check or refill it. So in terms of set-up, the PUSH'd DHX is the simplest as you really don't have to adjust anything except maybe the low speed rebound. Push’s bottom out bumper also works very well in preventing harsh bottom outs when landing off of jumps/drops. BTW, if you love your Push’d RC you’ll LOVE the Push’d DHX.

    I just hope PUSH brings back the Race System as I don't like the propedal on the DHX. Propedal just makes the shock feel harsh specially for lighter folks like you and I. I really really like the Race System. Darren, please bring back the Race System!!!

    Shock weights, as pictured, on Alpine Digital scale:

    CCDB - 830g
    Avy - 800g
    Push'd DHXrs - 740g
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    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 11-22-2006 at 03:49 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the great info.
    Too bad the race system is not available anymore! I don't get the impression that Push totally guts the shock anymore, just improves valving some and beefs up the main seal.

    Still leaning toward the Avy because of this.
    I'm suprised the weights are really not far off. The Avy, with the big spring, would seem to be a lot heavier. Cool.

    Thanks Scuba
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    I had mine valved with compression damping on the soft side and dual stage rebound for successive high speed hits.
    How did you do the dual stage rebound????

    For your info, if you get the avy with the bladder it has a normal air fitting. Avy says to use nitrogen, but air is fine unless your riding 30min DH tracks. If you have the bladder type you can change the air pressure to make it more or less progressive.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    Thanks for the great info.
    Too bad the race system is not available anymore! I don't get the impression that Push totally guts the shock anymore, just improves valving some and beefs up the main seal.

    Still leaning toward the Avy because of this.
    I'm suprised the weights are really not far off. The Avy, with the big spring, would seem to be a lot heavier. Cool.

    Thanks Scuba
    I would go the avy because i think the quality is top notch, no casted parts.

    Also, the avy is super, super simple to pull apart and service yourself, which means you can get to the shims and change things around, change oil weight etc. Only problem is the chubbie uses a nitro fitting, not a normal valve like the DHS and woodie which makes filling it a bit of a apin.

    I would go the woody or DHS, with the new hi/low adjuster i don't really see the need to have the firmer floating piston setup, you can make this adjustment with the dials.
    Last edited by cave dweller; 11-22-2006 at 04:02 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    Thanks for the great info.
    Too bad the race system is not available anymore! I don't get the impression that Push totally guts the shock anymore, just improves valving some and beefs up the main seal.
    You're welcome!

    With the Race System, all the internals are replaced; they only use the shell, if you may. With the Factory Tuning the ProPedal remains. I'd recommend the Push'd DHX as it really works great/better on the RFX/Pack. But I can only comment on the Race System as I have not ridden the Factory System.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  7. #7
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    Avy is sending me some parts to be sure it fits on the 07 RFX.

    It looks like SCUBA got it on no problem though!

    Happy get fat instead of riding with your day off day. Gobble gobble.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave dweller
    How did you do the dual stage rebound????.
    I didn't do it; Craig did it based on my application (riding style and terrain).
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave dweller
    I would go the avy because i think the quality is top notch, no casted parts.

    Also, the avy is super, super simple to pull apart and service yourself, which means you can get to the shims and change things around, change oil weight etc. Only problem is the chubbie uses a nitro fitting, not a normal valve like the DHS and woodie which makes filling it a bit of a apin.

    I would go the woody or DHS, with the new hi/low adjuster i don't really see the need to have the firmer floating piston setup, you can make this adjustment with the dials.
    Perhaps, if user serviceability is your top priority. My priority is performance hence I like the Push'd DHX better than any shock I've had on my 6Pack.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  10. #10
    Hisforever
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    the avy would weigh more if the spring were as long as the fox & CCreek. since that particular avy spring is shorter, the weight is competitive. Otherwise, thems some beefy springs, and you will stoked if you get an avy.

    On the other hand, I think Avys are better for heavier guys. Me, I only weigh 155, the avy on my rfx (was/is) stellar. but the avy on the highline is a little better for FR drops/jumps&slow tech apps rather than Fast dh. It just doesnt seem as fast or as plush as the DHX.

    there I said it, the stock dhx seems better for high speed runin.

    go big or go home.
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  11. #11
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    Shocks

    I loved my Pushed RC....anyone got a 8.875 x 2.25 RC?
    Krispy, do you mean a 7.875"??

    I just hope PUSH brings back the Race System as I don't like the propedal on the DHX. Propedal just makes the shock feel harsh specially for lighter folks like you and I. I really really like the Race System. Darren, please bring back the Race System!!!
    Too bad the race system is not available anymore! I don't get the impression that Push totally guts the shock anymore, just improves valving some and beefs up the main seal.
    With the Race System, all the internals are replaced; they only use the shell, if you may. With the Factory Tuning the ProPedal remains. I'd recommend the Push'd DHX as it really works great/better on the RFX/Pack. But I can only comment on the Race System as I have not ridden the Factory System.
    I know that I'm not the best at marketing, but boy does it seem like I've missed the boat with this particular product. As for the PUSH Factory Tuning vs. PUSH Race System in the DHX both work the same in regards to bump performance and bottoming control. The only difference between the kits is in the portion of the damping curve that you can adjust. With the Factory Tuning System you have external control over the low speed damping (handling-shafts speeds roughly up to 5in/sec.) With the main piston stack controlling secondary low speed, mid speed, and high speed characteristics. With the Race System you had external control over over mid speed damping (initial bump-shaft speeds roughly between 8-12in/sec) with the main piston stack controlling low speed, sedcondary mid speed, and high speed characteristic. With both kits the external adjuster only contributes to about 15% of the actual characteristic of the shock with the main piston picking up the rest. So in bump situations both kits produce the same results in regards to traction and control because of the PUSH VxRII Piston and Valving as well as our Power-Trac Piston Bolt Assembly. It never was a situation where one package was better than the other, rather what the external adjuster controlled. As for the Boost Valve, we still preset it here at PUSH based on the application with no need to adjust pressure or volume. I could go on, but even I'm bored.

    As for the Cane Creek and Avy stuff. They're also extremely good units. Craig and I have been friends going on about 5 years now and I have the utmost respect for him and the Avy products. Thge Cane Creek stuff as we all know is made by Ohlins, products that I'm overly familiar with from my days in Motorsport R&D. I think the only thing that is hard for them to overcome is how overwhelming the setup can be for some riders to get it optimized.

    HAPPY TURKEY DAY!!!!!!

    Darren

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    Krispy, do you mean a 7.875"??



    I know that I'm not the best at marketing, but boy does it seem like I've missed the boat with this particular product. As for the PUSH Factory Tuning vs. PUSH Race System in the DHX both work the same in regards to bump performance and bottoming control. The only difference between the kits is in the portion of the damping curve that you can adjust. With the Factory Tuning System you have external control over the low speed damping (handling-shafts speeds roughly up to 5in/sec.) With the main piston stack controlling secondary low speed, mid speed, and high speed characteristics. With the Race System you had external control over over mid speed damping (initial bump-shaft speeds roughly between 8-12in/sec) with the main piston stack controlling low speed, sedcondary mid speed, and high speed characteristic. With both kits the external adjuster only contributes to about 15% of the actual characteristic of the shock with the main piston picking up the rest. So in bump situations both kits produce the same results in regards to traction and control because of the PUSH VxRII Piston and Valving as well as our Power-Trac Piston Bolt Assembly. It never was a situation where one package was better than the other, rather what the external adjuster controlled. As for the Boost Valve, we still preset it here at PUSH based on the application with no need to adjust pressure or volume. I could go on, but even I'm bored.

    As for the Cane Creek and Avy stuff. They're also extremely good units. Craig and I have been friends going on about 5 years now and I have the utmost respect for him and the Avy products. Thge Cane Creek stuff as we all know is made by Ohlins, products that I'm overly familiar with from my days in Motorsport R&D. I think the only thing that is hard for them to overcome is how overwhelming the setup can be for some riders to get it optimized.

    HAPPY TURKEY DAY!!!!!!

    Darren
    Hey Darren; With all bike related things, it doesn't take much to leave me in the dust. I seemed to follow your discription of the Pushed DHX all the way until you said,
    "As for the Boost Valve, we still preset it here at PUSH based on the application with no need to adjust pressure or volume".

    I hope you clarify exactly what you mean when you say that, because it sounds like you're saying the pressure in the boost chamber is preset and you don't have to touch it-is that what you're saying? If so, i'm confused because, periodically I do add air to the chamber to keep the pressure up. Or are you saying the shock will continue to perform as you set it as long as the air pressure remains constant?

    At first, I thought the boost valve / air assist would become a sealed system with the Push upgrade, I think a couple other people did too. But it wasn't long before I found I needed to add air to the chamber. Personally, I like the idea of having a sealed system and not needing to check the air pressure.

    But I will say the shock I'm running on my bike is the Pushed DHX 5.0 Air with the Race System. At first I thought I'd use the Pushed shock for trips to the bike park and have the stock DHX coil for local trails. But after you revalved the shock for me, I've been using it for everything-it's the best.

    I wasn't sure if I wanted the Pushed mod or an Avy, but I can say I've been a happy camper with the choice. It's really cool that I got exactly what I was looking for with the Pushed shock. That pro-pedal adjuster drove me crazy-I was always fiddling with it.

    What I wanted the shock to do was stay soft over the small stuff and plush and stable at high speed/hard hits. Did I forget to say I wanted a shock that would let me pedal up too. I know what I was asking for was over the top, but believe it or not I got what I wanted-and that's the truth.

    I wish I had money to burn, I'd try the Pushed Vanilla RC-I think that shock has a lot of potential and from what I've heard it works well with the Turner design. So when you say you missed the market or something like that-I'd argue the point, you didn't miss a thing when you Pushed my shock .

  13. #13
    t66
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    That's an Avy lite. Go for the real deal, DHS
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    Perhaps, if user serviceability is your top priority. My priority is performance hence I like the Push'd DHX better than any shock I've had on my 6Pack.
    I think that is a bit of a big call saying that, but maybe im biased

    The avy is, imo, the top of its class and has been around for longer then the push, and i like the fact all the parts are made from scratch, its not just a re-fit. The main advantage of the push is if you already have a dhx to begin with. But anyway, the push works is not being offered anymore, so its no longer an option. I wonder why? Maybe fox wasn't happy about 3rd parties doing things to the shocks? Whats the reason?

    Allowing you to open up the avy, service it, change oil weights and reconfigure the shims yourself allows better fine tuning then the push, which i assume you need special tools to service seeing its based on a fox. The avy only requires a flat bladed screw driver to pull apart.

    If the avy doesnt feel right then send it back and get it revalved. My major beef with the avy is the fine rebound range on the needle, means you need to have the rebound shimmed just right.

  15. #15
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    At first, I thought the boost valve / air assist would become a sealed system with the Push upgrade, I think a couple other people did too. But it wasn't long before I found I needed to add air to the chamber. Personally, I like the idea of having a sealed system and not needing to check the air pressure.
    I was originally going to seal the endcap, however that meant yet another CNC part which would increase the cost to an area that wasn't critical. We fill the shocks with nitrogen from the facotry so if you keep your schrader cap tight you shouldn't need to touch up on the pressure anymore than once every other month. Yes, it's okay to use your standard high pressure mountainbike pump as you're only introducing a small amount of air volume into the system. Go fo an annual service and the nitro is refilled anyway. I guess I should have simplified my original post by saying that we no longer use the Boost pressure/volume as a tuning item. Glad you like your shock.

    Maybe fox wasn't happy about 3rd parties doing things to the shocks? Whats the reason?
    We have a very strong relationship with Fox. The reason simply comes down to the complexity of one of the components that I designed and the inability for us to get the part consistently from an outside vendor. When only 1 out of 80 parts is good, the program isn't working. We stuck with a few redesigns before pulling the plug. Unfortunately, this was a project that I should've kept exclusive to Steve and Nathan on their Syndicate bikes only.....live and learn.

    Allowing you to open up the avy, service it, change oil weights and reconfigure the shims yourself allows better fine tuning then the push, which i assume you need special tools to service seeing its based on a fox
    A PUSH tuned DHX doesn't come apart any differently than the AVY outside of the fact that the DHX uses a threaded seal housing and reservoir cap vs the c-cliped AVY. The layout and disassembly/reassembly are the same. The mechanical components aren't the hurdle, it's the knowledge and resources to do it correctly that is. In fact a couple of our DHX customers that work at Moto shops complete their own regular service and tuning.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAPRO
    That pic is giving me the horn....

  17. #17
    Lay off the Levers
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    Fellas,

    this has been one of the most informative threads I've seen in a long time. Big props for the imput.

    Scuba, don't take this personal but...YOU MAKE ME SICK! [SIZE=1](with envy)[/SIZE]

    Guess I'll be sending my DHX out to Co while I'm dialing in my Avy... Having choices sucks dosen't it?
    (Hope I'm still on the waiting list for the 5 Spot Rockers )
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  18. #18
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Scuba, don't take this personal but...YOU MAKE ME SICK! [SIZE=1](with envy)[/SIZE]

    Guess I'll be sending my DHX out to Co while I'm dialing in my Avy... Having choices sucks dosen't it?
    (Hope I'm still on the waiting list for the 5 Spot Rockers )
    Zilla, i'll take that as a compliment. Trying shocks is my UGI fix as it keeps me from buying a new frame.

    Good idea. Yes, too many choices but if I were to just pick one I would not even think twice about getting a Push'd DHX. What would be nice with the Factory System is if you could externally turn off the PP like on the RP23. Darren?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  19. #19
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    (quote)
    "As for the PUSH Factory Tuning vs. PUSH Race System in the DHX both work the same in regards to bump performance and bottoming control. The only difference between the kits is in the portion of the damping curve that you can adjust. With the Factory Tuning System you have external control over the low speed damping (handling-shafts speeds roughly up to 5in/sec.) With the main piston stack controlling secondary low speed, mid speed, and high speed characteristics. With the Race System you had external control over over mid speed damping (initial bump-shaft speeds roughly between 8-12in/sec) with the main piston stack controlling low speed, sedcondary mid speed, and high speed characteristic. With both kits the external adjuster only contributes to about 15% of the actual characteristic of the shock with the main piston picking up the rest. So in bump situations both kits produce the same results in regards to traction and control because of the PUSH VxRII Piston and Valving as well as our Power-Trac Piston Bolt Assembly. It never was a situation where one package was better than the other, rather what the external adjuster controlled"

    That's all i needed to hear! For a DH bike the Race/mid speed tuning would be nice but honestly for the RFX the Factory/low speed tuning is probably a better option of tuning.

    Thanks for the info, you rock as allways.

    Since i don't have a DHX C it would be an investment. I have had better luck getting Push to tune a shock to my liking than Avy, it may be a personal weight issue and that i like to run my stuff really soft and ride light.

    Thanks for all the info guys!

    7.875 x 2.25 DHX A for sale-cheap!! PM me...

    Allright time for suffering at the inlaws.Yay football.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by krispy@go-ride.com
    I have had better luck getting Push to tune a shock to my liking than Avy, it may be a personal weight issue and that i like to run my stuff really soft and ride light.
    Same here! Push knows how I like to run my suspension and tune my shocks exactly to my liking.

    Sounds like we have the same suspension preference: I like to run as little compression & rebound damping as possible and just ride light.

    Happy Turkey Day!
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 11-23-2006 at 11:38 AM.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

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