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  1. #1
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    Anything really better out there than the Spot?

    Hey guys, I've been riding a 2009 DW 5spot as my one-bike for the last 3 years, set up to be effective and enjoyable on aerobic trail rides pushing the ups as well as downs, not too XC and not too aggressive. (150mm up front, 1 degree saar angle set, triple chainrings, 2.2" tires - more aggressive in front and faster roller on the rear, etc).
    Lots has been going on during these 3 years - carbon, 27.5" wheels, etc. But for the first time ever, after replacing frames every 2 years and feeling a significant improvement each time (Horst link Spot --> TNT RFX --> DW Spot), I am really hesitant to switch to another bike - mainly fearing I will spend good money and end up with something not really any better. Its really a great bike.

    - Has anyone here got a chance to compare the new breed of 5" Carbon 26ers (Intense Carbine, Mojo SLR, Mojo HD 140 etc) to the DW 5Spot and found that direction to be worth it?
    - Has anyone here got the chance to thoroughly compare the 27.5" Burner to the 5Spot built similarly and care to share?

    Thanks for any input!
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  2. #2
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    a 2012 5 spot would be better,just due to the geometry and stiffer rear thru axle. as far as other bikes u mentioned you are only goin on personal likes or dislikes. had ibis hd, like the the turner better,carbon hd bike weighs a little less but still like the turner feel better. obviously the slr would be lighter and different geo.

  3. #3
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    Burpp thanks. I am definitely looking for subjective personal thoughts of people that relate to my riding description. I am using a 1 degree angle set so I am pretty close to the updated 2012 geometry already. Just trying to figure out of there is anything out there worth a serious thought of upgrading to or not. 27.5" included.
    Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. (Do it !?!)

  4. #4
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    Tough to say and a fear that I have as well. My DW spots are so dialed right now for what I ride. If I have to replace them with something other than another DW 5 spot I am concerned that I would be disappointed.

    I am intrigued by the Burner though. Since it is a cousin to the spot the rides should be similar. I have demoed the mach 5.7 alloy and 5.7 carbon and still like the spot better. I am geographically obligated to demo Pivots.

    In addition to the ride quality, the warranty service, mission to build bikes that last (in the US no less) and the Turner for Turner program make it a slam dunk that my next bikes will be Turners.

    Bobo

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    In addition to the ride quality, the warranty service, mission to build bikes that last (in the US no less) and the Turner for Turner program make it a slam dunk that my next bikes will be Turners.

    Bobo
    As much as I want to try other brands of bikes, this ^^^^^^ is what'll most likely keep me on a Turner. Plus, a 35 min drive up the highway, I'm at the Turner headquarters where you'll be well taken care of.

    No experience with any of the bikes you listed, so can't help you there.

  6. #6
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    As a mountain bike that you can ride on everything but the gnarliest DH stuff, I don't think there is another 26" bike that can compete. So no, I would say that there is nothing better than the Spot out there.

  7. #7
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    Unlike all of those bikes mentioned, the DW 5Spot has elevated chainstays. Nothing hanging below the BB. I had a 1st Generation Mojo and it was always catching/bottoming on rocks.

  8. #8
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    It might be interesting to check in with the Ibis, Pivot etc forums. Almost certainly folks there that have ridden both and preferred the non-Turner option. I am also just hitting three years on my 2010 5 Spot and still lovin' it. I picked up a discounted Flux over a year ago and have not build it up yet - love the Spot a LOT .

    One of the things that makes the Spot a very comfortable and inspiring bike for me is that I feel very comfortable throwing it around with wild abandon and don't worry about breaking it (broke my previous Burner and ('99) Titus QM frames twice each). It feels overbuilt for me and I like that comfort.

  9. #9
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    What got me to replace my 03 Spot with a 11 DW Spot was the steepish seat angle. I can't bring myself to get a bike with a 71-72 deg SA. I need my saddle slightly forward of centre on a straight seat post on my Spot now! In my experience a slack seat angle makes climbing steep sections very difficult.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  10. #10
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    Yep, pretty hard to beat the Spot for all-around XC-AM riding.

    I've ridden the Burner though not extensively and was pretty excited about the 650b advantages it afforded but it didn't feel sooooo different from my 2010 Spot that I had to run out and get one. If I was getting new 2013 Turner I'd be somewhat torn between the 5Spot and the Burner....but would probably opt for the Burner.

    If you want to go lighter or prefer carbon for some reason I would look at the Pivot Mach 5.7, the Blur LTc, the Mojo,and the Carbine 275 (which we really liked although we weren't that impressed with the 26" Carbine which was set up more for XC with a 32 Fox fork and light parts/wheels.)

    Not saying any of those are superior to the 5 Spot though. It's a dang good bike.

    Now if you want something a little heavier/beefier in the 160 travel range that spreads the gap between Trail and moderate FR pretty well there are some other options you might want to consider..... but that's a whole 'nuther thread.

  11. #11
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    edited due to wrong place to ask my question
    Last edited by Heretic Skeptic; 12-31-2012 at 07:15 PM. Reason: wrong place to ask question

  12. #12
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    A Pivot 5.7, 26" Carbine felt a lot more skittish than a 2012 Spot. I also didn't care for VPP or Pivotsapplication of the DW link. Turners have always ridden great and I always felt at home on the 5 Turner frames I owned. I am currently on a Knolly and love the 4x4 suspension and the way you have to really ride it. It's not a bike you sort of hang off the back of if that makes sense. If I was looking at a 140mm travel bike it would be a toss up between the Spot or the Endorphin.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    If I was looking at a 140mm travel bike it would be a toss up between the Spot or the Endorphin.
    I'd have to respectfully disagree on that one - Spot wins hands down between those two IMO (and I love my other Knolly 160mm bike). Regardless, KRob nailed it in his reply.

    The other thing to factor into these decisions is the people standing behind the product and you'll be hard pressed to find better support & customer service than Dave Turner & Co.

    Edit: IMO, unless you have need to move to Carbon, coil shock, or 650B, I'd stick with your existing Spot. Maybe send it in for a refurb?
    Last edited by cheezwhip; 01-01-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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  14. #14
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    my last bike, a 09 5 spot set up with a 1 degree saar headset and a 160mm bos deville fork, is exactly as you describe yours - the best trail bike i have ever owned. Period. Foolishly i replaced it with a 2012 5 spot though, though the 09 is now my brothers bike so can take it out as much as i want when i am at home

    I've really only tried the 2012 3 times with suspension that wasn't set up properly at all (due to the lack of a shock pump, stupidly, too much pressure up front, not enough in the rear..) and at present it needs a bit of tweaking before it will be able to match the 09s eminent handling. The 1.5 degree works headset i put on it might've been overkill for the bikes all around abilities and as of now the bike doesn't feel in sync with itself. The build quality of the 2012 far surpasses the 09 though. The ano black frame is simply a work of art. As it is now the bike descends like a bat out of hell, but its lower, longer and slacker nature necessitates a bit of a style redefinition. I've also decided to give clips a try so i can be a bit more over the front As a downhiller i am more than used to slack bikes with long wheelbases, so i should adjust rapidly

    My advice to you; figure out if you really need a new bike first, and if you do - look no further than at Turners worthy steed. The 2012 has taken a step in the enduro direction as compared to the 09, but should still be a worthy upgrade for you. See if you can demo one, and if all else fails, keep the 09 as a back up I can't see myself buying any other trail bike than a 5 spot simply because it is an awesome bike made by awesome people who back their products 100%, far above and beyond what we really can expect. If you really want a carbon bike, try the HD out. My plan initially was to get the HD, but got a killer deal on the Spot and haven't regretted the move a single time.

    a bit long winded from a tired and hung over chap from across the pond

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    I'd have to respectfully disagree on that one - Spot wins hands down between those two IMO (and I love my other Knolly 160mm bike). Regardless, KRob nailed it in his reply.

    The other thing to factor into these decisions is the people standing behind the product and you'll be hard pressed to find better support & customer service than Dave Turner & Co.

    Edit: IMO, unless you have need to move to Carbon, coil shock, or 650B, I'd stick with your existing Spot. Maybe send it in for a refurb?
    Opinions are like ar$eholes - everyone has one. Absolutely if you want a very capable 5" bike you would not be unhappy with a Spot. I miss mine from time to time but I don't think you need to worry about Knolly standing behind their products either.

  16. #16
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    Not saying Knolly doesn't support their product, just that the (new) Endo falls far short in comparison to the Spot.
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  17. #17
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    In the 140 class you'd be hard pressed to find a better bike than the newest Spot. I rode an 09/10 Spot for 2+ years and then moved to the 2011. The 2012/13 is definitely more refined and so clean. I really like the 2011+ geometry changes over the 2009/10. The lower BB, slacker HA and slightly longer WB are great. The bike is slightly less quick handling than the 09/10 but it's so darn stiff that it just goes wherever you point it, fast. So it doesn't feel like a slow handling bike at all. I like that I can run a 160 fork now with a ZS headset and get geometry that I feel is perfect for all around riding in rocks and ledges (13.7 BB, 66.5ish HA, 44.875 WB on a large). On my 2010 I had a Revelation at 150, now a Fox 36 at 160. The bike climbs better now even with the taller fork due to what I think is the steeper STA so it's a win-win up and down.

    BTW - I tried a new Knolly Endorphin recently and it was not on the same level as my Spot going up or down, IMO.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    In the 140 class you'd be hard pressed to find a better bike than the newest Spot. I rode an 09/10 Spot for 2+ years and then moved to the 2011. The 2012/13 is definitely more refined and so clean. I really like the 2011+ geometry changes over the 2009/10.

    BTW - I tried a new Knolly Endorphin recently and it was not on the same level as my Spot going up or down, IMO.
    I think Lance's experience is what tald is trying to avoid. Not sure he will be able to though. The new bike pull is a tough thing to overcome.

    I agree on the '11 geo changes. The last two days I rode the '11 after the prior 4 rides on the '10. The '11 is just better in every way. Climbing and descending it is "faster" than the '10.

    After rolling to the house today I was thinking I should sell the '10 frame for another '11 if I could find it. Since the warranty transfers I would feel comfortable buying a used '11.

    Probably just keep riding them both until I can try a Burner.

    Bobo

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tald View Post
    Hey guys, I've been riding a 2009 DW 5spot as my one-bike for the last 3 years, set up to be effective and enjoyable on aerobic trail rides pushing the ups as well as downs, not too XC and not too aggressive. (150mm up front, 1 degree saar angle set, triple chainrings, 2.2" tires - more aggressive in front and faster roller on the rear, etc).
    Lots has been going on during these 3 years - carbon, 27.5" wheels, etc. But for the first time ever, after replacing frames every 2 years and feeling a significant improvement each time (Horst link Spot --> TNT RFX --> DW Spot), I am really hesitant to switch to another bike - mainly fearing I will spend good money and end up with something not really any better. Its really a great bike.

    - Has anyone here got a chance to compare the new breed of 5" Carbon 26ers (Intense Carbine, Mojo SLR, Mojo HD 140 etc) to the DW 5Spot and found that direction to be worth it?
    - Has anyone here got the chance to thoroughly compare the 27.5" Burner to the 5Spot built similarly and care to share?

    Thanks for any input!
    I have spent time on a lot of 5 & 6" trail bikes over the last few years, including the Carbine and Mojo HD.

    What I found was this:

    There are a lot of good bikes these days, in fact it is tough to find a really bad one.
    Two companies using the same type of suspension can have a quite different feel on the trail.
    For example: a Santa Cruz does not ride like an Intense, a Norco is not a Specialized, and the Turner DW has a different feel than a Mojo or a Pivot.

    I found I prefer the feel of Turner's use of DW better than the other two, it works better for me on the trails I ride. The Spot dressed in trail/all mountain kit just kills it on techy trails.
    The Spot's brisk feel at the pedals combined with it's attack everything attitude on the trail make for a confidence inspiring ride. The super stout frame (especially the '12 w/ the 142 rear end) is an important part of why this bike feels so good.

    I found the Carbine to feel more xc orientated, it felt higher and steeper in it's angles. While more laterally stiff than the aluminum Intense bikes I have spent time on, the Carbine was still a long ways away from what I am used to on my Spot.

    The HD was fun, but Mojo's use of DW is much less supple feeling than Turners. I felt like the rear of the bike was chopping it's way though the rocks, not really settling into it's travel and soaking up the hits.

    The one trailbike I have ridden in the last couple years that really impressed me was the Yeti SB66. I have never really cared for any of the Yetis I have ridden over the years, so I was not expecting much. The SB66 was very stout, had good feeling geo, and the suspension behavior was excellent.

    The Burner is an interesting option, I am building one now to compare with my Spot and try to find which is the better trailbike (for me anyway).

  20. #20
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    I'll chime in on the Mojo/HD option. The original Mojo's suspension characteristics appear to be tuned very much for cross country. The suspension couldn't deal well with big hits; it was very frustrating to setup in the way to balance pedaling and small bump performance with big high performance. It required a heavy compromise in both.

    The HD suspension is a huge improvement. It is still challenging in setup but after some time and many shocks I've settled on the medium tune Monarch RC3 and it is surprisingly awesome considering my dissatisfaction with the Monarch RT and the CCDB air (not to mention the stock Fox). The HD140 suspension characteristics are analogous to the original Mojo's, I would advise against it.

    _MK
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  21. #21
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    Delirium is.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  22. #22
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    nothing better

    except more than one spot

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    except more than one spot
    I kind of agree with you freebiker. I love my Spot built heavy, and loved it built light. Kind of need 2 Spots. Genius!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    Not saying Knolly doesn't support their product, just that the (new) Endo falls far short in comparison to the Spot.
    I wouldn't say that the new Endorphin falls far short of the 5 Spot. It's just a different class of bike (despite the fact that they're both 140mm). The new Endorphin is much more XC/Trail oriented. Fast, firm, and light. More comparable to a Flux, or Mojo SL from my brief ride on it and from what others have said.

    IMO the 5 Spot really is more comparable to the Chilcotin (Maybe if LncNuvue had gone with the Chili and built it up in the 30-32lb range he'd still be riding a Knolly... who knows?). I think the Chil spreads the gap into the aggressive AM/moderate FR territory better than the Spot with it's adjustibility, extra weight, ability to take a 180 fork, and 20mm more rear travel, but with similar builds and on more average trails, they are very similar... with each having slight advantages here and there.

    Still, it is suprising how far into that relm the 5 Spot will go when built up properly despite having "only" 140mm of rear wheel travel. Not sure the new Endo will do that as well.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I wouldn't say that the new Endorphin falls far short of the 5 Spot. It's just a different class of bike (despite the fact that they're both 140mm). The new Endorphin is much more XC/Trail oriented. Fast, firm, and light. More comparable to a Flux, or Mojo SL from my brief ride on it and from what others have said.
    My Endo was a 1/2 lighter than my Spot but pedaled like a heavier bike. It wasn't good enough on the downs to justify the lackluster climbing. The bar was set high since I was comparing it directly to my Spot, same build, etc. IMO the beauty of the DW Link as it's applied to the Spot is that there's no compromise when setting up the suspension. Dial it to bomb the downs and it still climbs like a goat without flipping any levers.

    Based on how the Endo climbed there is no way I would have liked a Chili for the trails I ride most.

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