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  1. #1
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    Any X-country riders riding the Burner?

    Hello everyone,
    I'm having the internal debate about which new 650b Turner to build up. I don't fully understand the X-country vs. All-mountain distinction, but my style of riding has always been singletrack, always earning my downhills, and I love when the trail is technical. I've been leaning on the Burner, because I have read in a few places that though these bikes have a 150mm fork, they climb very well. And I also admit, I'm not loving the bent frame of the Flux. But I could probably get over that. I currently ride a 2008 Flux with a 120mm fork with 2.25 tires. I have really loved this bike. I'm not a racer or a weight weenie, I really just want a good all-round XC mountain bike. This is why I have talked myself down from the sultan and into a 650b wheeled bike. So, like I said the Burner has really piqued my interest, but it may be too beastly for a guy that doesn't huck off things and doesn't load his bike in the back of a pick-up to carry the bike uphill for a downhill ride. Is the burner a little too much travel, weight, etc, and would I be better off with the new Flux? I would like to know what folks think that are XC riders and have decided to take the plunge on the burner. Any Flux 27.5 riders out there, please feel free to chime in too.
    Big Thanks for your input!
    Mike

  2. #2
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    Have you ever felt underbiked sufficiently on your old Flux that you felt the need for a burly build on a Spot?

    It sounds like the Flux would meet your needs better than the slight weight and extra travel upgrade of the Burner.
    Rolling on 29", 650b, 8.3" and 23mm

  3. #3
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    Based on your post. Try the Flux and Czar and pick the one that you like the best. Either would be a good replacement for your old Flux.

    Burner is closer to the Sultan or 5 Spot in "bigness".

    Bob

  4. #4
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    650b Flux with a 130 or 140mm fork!

  5. #5
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    Thanks 6thElement,
    Most of the time I don't feel underbiked with my flux on the trails I ride. On some of the more epic trails, such as in Moab or Fruita I have done fine on it, but I know I would prefer a Spot on those rides. Those bigger rocky rides are only a few times a year though, but that bigger travel would be fun!

    Any others that have made the jump to a Turner 650b, Burner or Flux, care to make comment? I mean Turner only has 2.1 width tires spec'd on the Burner. I'm surprised they didn't spec 2.35 sized tires. In fact the same wheels and tires on both bikes.

  6. #6
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    I'm all about over-forking a XC bike; I always do that to my rigs. I have thought about a 140mm on there. In fact I have a Fox Float 34 150mm fork on the way, because I was convinced that I was going towards the Burner. I got it for a great price, so I jumped on it pretty quick.

    One thing I don't get, and maybe someone can help me out, is that the fork is a take-off from a Santa Cruz, and it is the same fork Turner specs for the XT burner - 150mm travel, 34mm stanchions. But when you go to the Fox website they only sell a 160mm Float 650b fork. Do these forks have a range of 140 - 160mm, and Turner and Santa Cruz are setting them up at 150mm? If so, can they be set-up at 140mm? If so, I could go with a Flux, without having to change forks. Over forking by 20mm I would think would be fine, but I don't know about putting 150mm travel on a bike designed for 120mm.
    Thanks for your comments!

  7. #7
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    Flux geo specs probably assume a 32 mm fork chassis. When you go to a 34 mm chassis with Fox, you gain 12 mm of AC without changing travel, so keep that in mind.

    With the info you provided, it sounds like the Flux might be the call. IMO, for smooth to moderate xc choose the Flux (or Czar, even better IMO). For more rugged and chunky stuff, choose the Burner.

    Of course, you can blur those lines by building a burly-ish, over-forked Flux, or a weight weeny Burner, but since you have the choice, I would just build to the frameset that best suits you to begin with, rather than fighting the flow.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  8. #8
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    go for the burner, make sure your fork has the desired/correct offset.

  9. #9
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    Damn, things are getting more complicated these days, since I built my bike in '08! How do I go about checking the offset with this new fork? BTW, why do you say go for the burner?

  10. #10
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    Thanks Kosmo,
    Flux maybe, but not the Czar. Great that Dave is making a carbon bike for those who really want that, but I'm an aluminum frame full suspension guy and probably will be for some time.

    Thanks for the tech lesson there. There is a little more science here than I obviously realized. So I'll ask at the risk of sounding dumb, what is AC? I get offset and trail, but I don't know what the "AC" dimension is.

    You are right, better to pick the right rig from the start, then trying to make it something it is not. Now back to trying to decide which is the right rig....

  11. #11
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    AC = Axle to Crown, thus the length of the fork.

  12. #12
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    Hi guys, i' m in the same situation, except my flux is a 09 DW, with a 120 mm fork. I think the 105 mm rear travel of the old flux are so capable that the 120 mm of the new 650B flux (with a 140 mm fork) should be enough for me.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzou View Post
    Thanks Kosmo,
    Flux maybe, but not the Czar. Great that Dave is making a carbon bike for those who really want that, but I'm an aluminum frame full suspension guy and probably will be for some time.

    Thanks for the tech lesson there. There is a little more science here than I obviously realized. So I'll ask at the risk of sounding dumb, what is AC? I get offset and trail, but I don't know what the "AC" dimension is.

    You are right, better to pick the right rig from the start, then trying to make it something it is not. Now back to trying to decide which is the right rig....
    As noted below AC = Axle to Crown height. To simplify last night's beer-induced complex response, if you switch from a 120 mm Fox 32 to a 120 mm Fox 34, you would gain about 12 mm of AC. I learned this when I replaced my old 32/120 with a 34/140 on the Sultan, and it choppered it out a bit too much for my tastes.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  14. #14
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    Oh, AC = fork length. I get it. 12mm is pretty big change right there. Given that, I would want to go with a Fox 32 with the Flux. Thanks Kosmo.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzou View Post
    Oh, AC = fork length. I get it. 12mm is pretty big change right there. Given that, I would want to go with a Fox 32 with the Flux. Thanks Kosmo.
    The new Fox 120/32s are pretty stiff, as they are now built on a bit burlier chassis than the 100. I recently switched from a 100 to a 120 on my Czar, and it is a noticeably stiffer fork. Not hugely so, but noticeable. If I were building a Flux, that is what I'd start with.
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  16. #16
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    Plus you have the benefit of the larger wheels to smooth things out some too! Looks like Fox makes a 32mm x 140mm travel, so that would be a nice build. As long as we can now get most of the travel out of our Fox forks, which supposedly we can.

  17. #17
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    Just the thread that I was looking for! I'm in a similar situation, have a 09 flux and need more bike but struggling to decide on how much more. I'm in a bind which way to go - new flux or burner. I go through the spectrum of conditions every ride - 30% smooth trail single track (hardtail territory), 40% mixed single track (flux territory), 30% rock gardens, drop offs (spot territory). With the flux I've "stretched" it into handling the rougher stuff with dropper post, works angleset, spec butcher control front tyre, wide bars, short stem without slowing it down too much on the smoother trails. I haven't overforked the bike, staying with 120mm in the front. It's a lot of fun to ride on all trails and the buzz of the ride definitely is the rougher stuff. There's a slight masochistic fun side to getting down rough trails within a heartbeat of guys riding bikes with 40mm more travel, having to choose the perfect line and working the trail for all its worth. The reason I'm looking at more bike is when things don't go perfectly - there is no safety net riding the flux really fast on rough - stuff up the line and there's not the stiffness nor the extra travel to save me. So..new bike - I need extra capability in the rough - I'd definitely go minimum 140mm fork, which it sounds like either the new flux or burner could take. I'm lightish - 160lbs RTR and I'm not into big gap jumps - I've come up short or long once too many a time. I was at first keen on the burner - performance to spare on the rougher trails but not sure I'd feel like I'd be dragging a boat anchor around on the smooth stuff? The new flux is supposed to more capable, just how much more? Interested to hear what owners of both these bikes think.

  18. #18
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    I made the switch from a Soulcraft Plowboy 26" singlespeed to a Burner this past February, and have not regretted a moment of it. It's definitely a big bike for our central NC trails, but still a blast to ride...and it gets even better when I'm able to head to the mountains. I've ridden a number of longer climbs in the Pisgah area, as well as Boone and some hilly trails up in southern VA, and haven't noticed any debilitating bobbing, even with the rear Fox CTD in 'descend' mode...I actually haven't touched that lever since I first put it there. As for the descents...well, that's where I absolutely love this bike.
    When Turner first released the Flux, I almost found myself second guessing my choice, but then I spent a long weekend in the Mills River / Bent Creek area of Pisgah, and all doubt was erased.
    "lift your skinny fists like antennas to heaven"

  19. #19
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    I'm riding a Burner in a cross country fashion and it's pretty great. I use the T-setting on the shock 99% of the time. I tried D but it was too active and sagged more than I wanted. I think if I played around with the air pressure and rebound I could make it feel better but T works just fine so I haven't bothered. My Burner with 9 speed XT/X-9 and a WB Loop fork weighs just about 30 pounds, maybe a smidgeon less. I wanted a stable, comfortable and competent but not sluggish bike that I could ride over sketchy trail sections with the confidence my Fat Bike supplies and the Burner largely delivers. If I had it to do over again, not knowing at the time I purchased my Burner that the Flux was coming, I think I might've gone with the Flux, tho. It would've been a tough call. Really, the functional difference is only, 20mm of travel and a degree in headtube angle. I think the Flux might weigh a bit less with the same parts. I only think about it when I'm not actually on the Burner, though-when I'm riding it, it's perfect! Did a 40 mile trail/dirt road combo on it and it felt just fine, efficient and comfortable...and if I ever travel to places with more challenging terrain, I think I'll be real glad for the Burner.

  20. #20
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    I have a 2013 Large Turner Burner Black 650 B wheel bike I am about to post for sale if anyone here is interested. It is the 2 x 10 XT build with ENVE wheels and a Rock Shox Reverb dropper seat post. It is in new condition, barely broken in. It has no scratches or dings what-so-ever. I have too many bikes and I am not riding this bike enough to warrant keeping it. Let me know if you are interested.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmtb View Post
    I have a 2013 Large Turner Burner Black 650 B wheel bike I am about to post for sale if anyone here is interested. It is the 2 x 10 XT build with ENVE wheels and a Rock Shox Reverb dropper seat post. It is in new condition, barely broken in. It has no scratches or dings what-so-ever. I have too many bikes and I am not riding this bike enough to warrant keeping it. Let me know if you are interested.
    what makes you not riding it aside from many bikes? whats your favorite by the way?
    Interested to know if you don't mind sharing,
    TIA,
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  22. #22
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    Hey Steve,
    Thanks for posting your XC riding experience on your Burner. Sounds like it is treating you well. I'm getting about a 50/50 response between "votes" for the Flux/Burner. I have the 2008 flux now....I'm leaning on the Burner, for more of a "5-spot" style of ride. Actually, I've never put this much thought into a new bike. With my Flux, I just bought it over the 5-spot, because it just seemed more like my style of riding. But now that I making the leap from 26" to 650b, I'm putting a little more thought into it. I'm not at the point of analysis paralysis though. Not yet...

  23. #23
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    has anyone ridden both the IBIS HDR 650b and Burner? Like to know what's the same and different between these two.

  24. #24
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    @Wazzou,
    As long as the slacker head angle of the Burner over the Flux is fine with you, then the Burner is your best bet in my opinion.
    Turner bikes are very capable once you over-fork and over-tire(2.35 & up) it. it instantly changes the attitude of the bike.
    I have done it on my Spots, over-fork to 160, over-tire it to 2.35 and even 2.5 and it's totally a different animal from the original intention of DT. It becomes an even more fun bike to ride.
    Now my Spot is setup with 140 front (Xfusion Velvet) and a lighter 2.25 Ardent. The bikes weighs down to 28lbs from the previous weight of almost 32#.
    The Spot still rides great but more of a light trailbike feel. It can climb faster and blast down just as well.
    So if you choose the Burner with the 150 front and 2.1(or even lighter 2.25) tire as stated on Turner starter kit, Then I would say it will serve you well.
    Goodluck!
    Just my 0.2 cents ;-)
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzou View Post
    Hey Steve,
    Thanks for posting your XC riding experience on your Burner. Sounds like it is treating you well. I'm getting about a 50/50 response between "votes" for the Flux/Burner. I have the 2008 flux now....I'm leaning on the Burner, for more of a "5-spot" style of ride. Actually, I've never put this much thought into a new bike. With my Flux, I just bought it over the 5-spot, because it just seemed more like my style of riding. But now that I making the leap from 26" to 650b, I'm putting a little more thought into it. I'm not at the point of analysis paralysis though. Not yet...
    I don't think you could go wrong with either frame. You're lucky to have the option, I think--the Burner was it when I bought mine so I didn't have to choose. (or maybe I was the lucky one because the choice was clear?)

    I have to throw some love at the LOOP-fantastic fork. Really works great and complements the Burner very well. A good value too-you can get them online for around $600. (or from your shop if they'll pricematch online stuff--mine did)

    Good luck!

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