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  1. #1
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    Another One Bites the Dust

    Sperky is out. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...=1#post1648818

    I suspect more riders make the switch from Turners to a full suspension 29"er (of which there are all of a half dozen or so on the market) than to any one brand of 26" full suspension bikes. This is what your competition looks like these days Dave, let's hurry up and stop the bleeding!
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    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  2. #2
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    I'm staying with my 29er hardtail till DT gives me a fully...
    I want one now =\
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    I'm staying with my 29er hardtail till DT gives me a fully...
    I want one now =\
    Ditto and ditto. It gets harder every day though.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  4. #4
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    Do you already have a turner? If so, it's not nearly as hard for you as it is for me!! I was saving for a 5spot for 6 months, then I decided to do an archaeology field school this summer- so no riding from may-august! So I took the money I had saved and bought a 29er hardtail so I could get in as much riding b/t now and may.. I'm kinda glad I did, so now my first FS will be a Turner AND a 29er.. Maybe if I mail Dave Turner a ziploc bag filled with tears he'll make one just for me =)
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    Do you already have a turner?
    Nope. I have two.

    Sorry, that was mean. Tough decision you had there, but I imagine yours was the correct one in the end, if a bit hard to stomach for now. Too bad you can't take a bike with you though.

    I honestly think more about my Turner when I'm on 29" wheels than the other way around. I'm usually quite happy with the performance of my Spot/Flux, but when I'm on my 29"er hardtail I can't help but wonder "What if I had these big wheels to gobble up the rough stuff, and four or five inches of suspension?". I suppose that doesn't make you feel any better though.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  6. #6
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    I think I'll make it in the end. I did see that 'dave says 29ers a definate yes' or something like that. I really hope a 4-5" will come out before I break all the parts on my bike. The bigger wheels have permitted me to really push myself in all aspects of my riding. BTW, If you ever want to give away that flux though, I'd gladly take it off your hands..
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  7. #7
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I have a 29er too, but I don't see much overlap between it and our shed full of Turners.

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
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    Woah! Did you get that from another homer? Bob? AKC?
    I'd swear Surly made one of those things and folks are passin it around like a spliff.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  9. #9
    No, that's not phonetic
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    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I'd swear Surly made one of those things and folks are passin it around like a spliff.

    Hilarious.

  11. #11
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    I know there's not much overlap. Ive wanted a turner for a long time, but now Id like one with the chubby wheels. Besides, everyone needs a bike that allows them to go WAY faster than they should ever go.. btw tscheezy, I've always wanted to go to Alaska and really enjoy all your photos =)
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  12. #12
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    Bwa!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    Maybe if I mail Dave Turner a ziploc bag filled with tears he'll make one just for me =)
    that's so sweet. really.



    no, really.
    lets not make it a religion, it is recreation

  13. #13
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Anyone who sells their super-balanced Turner to buy that 74-degree head-angle Intense... well, all I can say is, good riddance.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Anyone who sells their super-balanced Turner to buy that 74-degree head-angle Intense... well, all I can say is, good riddance.
    Well, it's not like tire clearance with the VPP design should be an issue, for the time being anyway. Plus, I have it on pretty good authority (Instant Obsolescence - Intense Spider 29) that the Spider makes all other bikes obsolete.

    As far as overlap, I don't think there would be much overlap between a light 29" Flux and your Spot & Pack either.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  15. #15
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    Do you really ride faster with them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    Besides, everyone needs a bike that allows them to go WAY faster than they should ever go
    I understand the rolling over obastacles part, but I've heard mixed reviews from folks that ride them. I have a TI Single Speed 26er, but I am very interested in a Desalvo 29er.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  16. #16
    No, that's not phonetic
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    They do transition over obstacles more easily than smaller wheeled bikes. Imagine riding down the trail on a bike with tiny wheels. They'd get hung up on every root. That's what the larger wheels fix. I don't buy any of the larger contact patch or gyroscopic stabilizing arguments, but they do "roll well". And if the bike is properly designed it does not end up feeling sluggish or like a clown bike.

    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  17. #17
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    Sperky here. I've been eyeing the Asylum 29er for awhile. Being a tall guy with long legs and short torso the 29er really made sense to me. Plus I do a lot of endurance riding (no hucking) so was ready for a dramatic change. Don't get me wrong....the Burner is an awesome bike and had Turner come along with their 29er sooner I'd would have probably considered one of those. But with not even a prototype to see I figured the wait would be too long. The Asylum is basically a Titus 29er and although I haven't had a lot of riding on it I can tell it fits just a little better, in large part to the fact the handlebars sit much higher, so now I'm not so hunched over.

    So am I still allowed to get Homer advice from you guys?!

  18. #18
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    26" vs. 29" for racing

    There is a very interesting thread on the Endurance Racing Board discussing the efficiency of a 26" race bike vs. a 29" race bike. For anyone interested, here is the link:

    29er vs 26er efficiency

    I have to give hairball_dh a lot of credit for making a solid effort to find out which bike is fastest for him. The key here is which bike HE is faster on. He took 26" and 29" similarly equipped bikes, both with PowerTaps, to the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and raced both of them during the event. The 26" bike proved faster.

  19. #19
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by sperky
    So am I still allowed to get Homer advice from you guys?!
    Sure, if you don't mind a canard as advice. Only Homers get the straight scoop.

    BTW- PPA (Pocket Protector Alert)!!

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  20. #20
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    Thanks. I really do prefer long travel bikes, however

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    the government has my family and me hostage in south texas for a couple of more years, and my single speed is a little better suited to most of the terrain than my 5 Pack. I'm from the bay area and I've lived in Alaska, Tucson, and now here, so the singlespeed is just for the local flat/hilly trails. The Pack accompanies me back to Norcal, Arizona, and Utah.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  21. #21
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    hey cheese. i was goin through this thread and noticed yer comment on the head angle of the intense. i totally agree it looks wacky as hell and i dont profess to understand exactly why it not only is prefered on the big wheeled bikes but seems to work well accordin to a hefty handfull of pals and custys who ride them. maybe aqua, jj or others can pipe in and explain some. sure does look nasty though doesnt it?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  22. #22
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Yeah, I like the 74 degree HA on by big-wheeled bike. Oh, yeah, it's a ROAD BIKE.

    Seriously though, the Pugsley is at 68 deg now with the SC32 fork (with very little sag) and it rides waaaay nicer than it did with the shorter rigid Surly fork @70 deg, and I am going to put a 4mm Ventana King crown on too.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    ..and my single speed is a little better suited to most of the terrain than my 5 Pack...
    ...just curious about your thoughts in regards to the 5 Pack....you diggin?


  24. #24
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    i understand ya here i think but even though the outside tire dia must be close to the same, is it really a fair comparison? takin into account the lower tire psi, the huge tire size and how the size will dramaticly change geo when compressed front to rear. im not sure of the rest of the static geo but ill guess its not all that close. also theres the intent of both bikes which are pretty different. not baggin on ya at all, just thinkin theres more than one way to look at this plus im interested.
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  25. #25
    No, that's not phonetic
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    CC, yer graspin' at straws there, boy. Yes the overall tire diameter is the same. The contact patch is bigger and the pressures lower, but you don't see-saw back and forth on jello rubber. In fact, even at low pressures they ride very firmly. The geometries are directly applicable. 74 is still terrifying any way you slice it.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  26. #26
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    I like my 29er hardtail alot. I bought it because it just felt good. I felt much more balanced on it that any of the other 26er hardtails that I've ridden. It's not a bike fit thing, the slightly bigger wheels just felt different, in a good way. I'm only 6' tall, so it's not like I'm real tall riding an XXL bike or anything. Should people not ride what they like? I would say yes- which means what I'd really like to ride is a 29er turner =)
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  27. #27
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    I'v actually gone back to my Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ...just curious about your thoughts in regards to the 5 Pack....you diggin?
    Until Scott from Go-Ride releases his "product" to fix the geometry. Many people on this board speculated that the 5 Pack would yield slacker geometry than the 5 Spot. It actually has a 1 degree steeper HA & and a higher BB. Scott's fix will maintain the 5 SPots geometry. So, I liked the solidness of the ride, but I am waiting on the Geometry fix.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  28. #28
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    thats cool. i figured it would be kinda jelloy like ya called it so i guess im wrong... again. gawd i hate it when that happens. i havent spent any time on a 29er so i have no basis for argument on way or another. i have a redline monocog 29er on order but its on a slow boat so i dont know when ill get a shot at it. unfortunately no geo is available on their website so i dont know what im gettin myself into. i can tell ya that my 29er pals say they enjoyed the steeper h/t angle fisher made but i agree it looks down right scary. how it rides? i dunno.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  29. #29
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I've ridden the Lenz Leviathan (3") and Behemoth (5") 29ers. Both rode fine, both have ~70 deg HA. The new Ventanas are a hair over 70. I'm not saying Intense shouldn't build a 29er with a 74 degree HA, I'm just saying I won't be buying one.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    i can tell ya that my 29er pals say they enjoyed the steeper h/t angle fisher made but i agree it looks down right scary. how it rides? i dunno.
    I didn't think the head angles on Fisher 29"ers were particularly steep. The head angle on my Paragon is 71 deg, which for me is just about right on a hardtail. I like Turner's graduated travel/head angle inverse correlation (i.e. 4"=70 deg, 5"=69 deg, etc), and don't think I would want any steeper of a head angle on a FS 29"er.

    To me, the idea is to have a bike that has a distinctive ride from that of a 26" bike, not one that trys to mimic it with whacked geometry. Yes, the wheelbase on a 29"er will always be longer than a similar 26" bike, but I think we've established here (at the bequest of Mr. Bottoms) that a longer wheelbase is not necessarily a bad thing, and (within reason) can even be desirable.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  31. #31
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    Warning

    If all? of you guys that want a Turner 29er want me to do it right the first time, ie, no road head angles than you better send me your wish list of #'s to DT@turnerbikes.com immediatly. I have been working on it, but before I release drawings I want to get some more feedback.

    Tommorrow!!! would be good. I am in the mood for a big wheel bike.

    DT

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    If all? of you guys that want a Turner 29er want me to do it right the first time, ie, no road head angles than you better send me your wish list of #'s to DT@turnerbikes.com immediatly. I have been working on it, but before I release drawings I want to get some more feedback.

    Tommorrow!!! would be good. I am in the mood for a big wheel bike.

    DT
    How about a steel hardtail one???

    Any chance the 29'er will be ready for I-Bike in September?

  33. #33
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    9:45!

    And I still have not gotten 1 (one) phone call or E mail to discuss the 29er geometry?!

    The only way it will be ready is if I can get it done soon. The plan is to have it done for Interbike, as few probably. They will run from Medium to Sasquatch.

    No steel hardtails, sorry.

    DT

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    And I still have not gotten 1 (one) phone call or E mail to discuss the 29er geometry?!

    The only way it will be ready is if I can get it done soon. The plan is to have it done for Interbike, as few probably. They will run from Medium to Sasquatch.

    No steel hardtails, sorry.

    DT
    No offense DT, but you would probably be getting a lot more feedback if you posted this in the 29er forum. Maybe more than you want...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    Hit the nail on the head.
    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in) so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    Cheez, you are full of poop. Considering there are already two solid 5x5 29er bikes out there by Ventana and Lenz (and another of pack of custom builders using Ventana rear ends).

    Hater.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in) so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place.
    Just think of a 30# 21" 5-Spot with clyde-approved parts.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    And I still have not gotten 1 (one) phone call or E mail to discuss the 29er geometry?!

    The only way it will be ready is if I can get it done soon. The plan is to have it done for Interbike, as few probably. They will run from Medium to Sasquatch.

    No steel hardtails, sorry.

    DT
    Start with an El Capitan. Add a Horst Link. Voila - best thing since my '02 RFX.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Just think of a 30# 21" 5-Spot with clyde-approved parts.
    Sounds like the bike I was begging for this weekend, although even 32 pounds would be great. I need something lighter than my 41 lb Uzzi, and I'm not buying another 26er that's anything less than a freeride bike.

    Give me a 5" travel 29er that I can throw off 3-5' drops, yet still ride on all-day epics, and I'll be a happy man. The Lenz Behemoth is ugly, and the El Cap looks weirdly unbalanced (no matter how well it rides). A 29er 5 Spot would be perfect. Bikezilla needs one as well...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Just think of a 30# 21" 5-Spot with clyde-approved parts.
    Show me.
    I regularly see tricked out 29er hardtails on the 29er forum that weigh 24/25 lbs that in a 26 inch setup would weigh 20/21lbs. I guarantee that a 29er 5 Spot using the exact same parts as it's 26" sibling would weigh 5-6lbs more. It's weird, all I hear on the 29'er forum is how 29'er wheels make a rigid bike feel like a 3" FS, my question is why the hell would you want an 8"( 5"+3") travel all mountain bike?
    "Do not touch the trim"

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbogner
    Sounds like the bike I was begging for this weekend, although even 32 pounds would be great. I need something lighter than my 41 lb Uzzi, and I'm not buying another 26er that's anything less than a freeride bike.

    Give me a 5" travel 29er that I can throw off 3-5' drops, yet still ride on all-day epics, and I'll be a happy man. The Lenz Behemoth is ugly, and the El Cap looks weirdly unbalanced (no matter how well it rides). A 29er 5 Spot would be perfect. Bikezilla needs one as well...
    Hmmm, 5' drops, I hope your willing to replace wheel parts regularly.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Hater.
    Zealot?
    "Do not touch the trim"

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Hit the nail on the head.
    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in) so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place.
    Good to see you trolling over here now too, but DT's got me in a good mood today and I'm feeling generous, so I'll bite.

    Hit the nail on the head.
    I'd be curious to know if Tscheezy actually meant what you're suggesting (29"ers with over 4" of travel are impractical), or if his statement was more of a summarization of what the market currently offers for 29" wheels. Or perhaps both. You just seem to be making a lot of his statement that could mean something else entirely from what you're inferring. Ultimately what either of you think is little more than one person's opinion, even if his does carry some weight in my book since he's ridden a 5" travel 29"er.

    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot
    A 29" Spot would of course be heavier than a 26", but you seem to be exaggerating the associated weight increase just a bit. Unless you're assuming a 26" Spot weight of 33-34 lbs, which is on the high side and more in line with what a lot of Packs/RFX's are coming in at. Can you please explain in further detail how you're coming up with this figure?

    ( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in)
    A 10% weight increase is a pretty good rule of thumb for figuring out how much more a comparable 29" item will weigh. The parts you listed on my Spot total 18 lbs, so my 29" Spot would probably jump from 30 lbs. to 31.8 A maximum of a two pound weight increase is what you could expect to see, not unlike what gaining an extra inch of travel would cost you in weight on the frame & fork. I, for one, would rather be riding a 32 lb. 5 Spot 29"er than a 32 lb. RFX.

    so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place
    I haven't seen you ride, but most riders spend more time on the trail than in the air. When you are in the air you have to come down, and unless your trail is perfectly groomed the big wheels will help your landing. Then there's the whole matter of techinical climbs, but maybe you just jump right up those too?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  44. #44
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    zealot hater

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    zealot hater

    Easy Aquaho.....I mean Fo. I can be mean but not that mean.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  46. #46
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    Look at the Lenz Sport Leviathan, they look like they got it right, keep it light the El Capitan is way to heavy in the larger sizes. Why the turn around?

  47. #47
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Easy Aquaho.....I mean Fo. I can be mean but not that mean.
    ha ha....

    the only downside I see with Turner making 29ers is that there are already too many homers and knowing Dave, the bike would be great so PLEASE DONT MAKE IT

  48. #48
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Cheez, you are full of poop. Considering there are already two solid 5x5 29er bikes out there by Ventana and Lenz (and another of pack of custom builders using Ventana rear ends).
    So now the Ventana gets 5" in back? Maybe Sherwood should update the website. And I rode the Behemoth. It was ok. But for you to imply these things are moving into the light FR arena is complete pap. Show me one burly 29er fork (BTW the WB forks sucked, call me a hater there ), and don't make me start laughing at the 29er tire selection again.

    You call me a hater, but this is an amazingly clueless statement in light of the fact that I actually enjoyed the 29ers I have ridden (WB forks aside).
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    ha ha....

    the only downside I see with Turner making 29ers is that there are already too many homers and knowing Dave, the bike would be great so PLEASE DONT MAKE IT
    You know, it probably would be a nice bike. And for the record I don't hate 29'ers, if I was gonna get a new SS it'd be a 29'er as I think that's where the big wheels shine. I do however take umbridge with the cult like worship of the big wheels and that they do everything better. For true freeride/all mountain stuff where 5-6" travel bikes are being bottomed out I think the larger wheels will really reveal there limitations.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    It's weird, all I hear on the 29'er forum is how 29'er wheels make a rigid bike feel like a 3" FS, my question is why the hell would you want an 8"( 5"+3") travel all mountain bike?
    Interesting. My question is why wouldn't you?

    Which do you think would a more fun all mountain (i.e. up and down the mountain) bike: a 42 lb. Highline or a 32 lb. 5 Spot 29"er? If you can add a comparable level of comfort and control but increase the bike weight by two pounds instead of twelve, why wouldn't you? (Unless 10'+ drops are your thing).
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  51. #51
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    focus, focus

    It seems to be that many of the comparisons are not fair. A 32 pound 29er Spot to a Highline? The name of the game today is focus. As much as I would love to have a 3 bike line, it looks like we are rolling towards 9 in 07, all suspended all aluminum all built in Oregon. I get dizzy thinking about it.

    Focus DT focus. Well it seems that the plethora of notes I have recieved of late on 29er geometry is not at all consistant, except maybe that their grips and seat be close to level. I was thinking more race pose, but maybe I am projecting? Seems that these are just trail bikes and grips and seats in same neighborhood is fine. Many are not wanting super steep head angles. Interesting, as I thought things were leaning towards notably steeper than XC bike, but it seems that may be over done. Surprise! Yes and most of the 29er riders that are responding to my call are tallish to Sasquatch height. No surprise there.

    I am not worried about the 29er forum crashing my day with opinions. Tell a friend.

    DT

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    It seems to be that many of the comparisons are not fair. A 32 pound 29er Spot to a Highline?
    Sorry. I guess that's what happens when you try to take someone's illogical statement to it's logical conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    As much as I would love to have a 3 bike line, it looks like we are rolling towards 9 in 07, all suspended all aluminum all built in Oregon.
    9 Bikes though, eh?
    1. Nitrous
    2. Flux
    3. 5 Spot
    4. RFX
    5. Highline
    6. DHR
    7. Rail/4x
    8. 29"er

    Is #9 the 5 Pack, or something else entirely?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    You know, it probably would be a nice bike. And for the record I don't hate 29'ers, if I was gonna get a new SS it'd be a 29'er as I think that's where the big wheels shine. I do however take umbridge with the cult like worship of the big wheels and that they do everything better. For true freeride/all mountain stuff where 5-6" travel bikes are being bottomed out I think the larger wheels will really reveal there limitations.
    I do believe that at least for hardtails, 29ers no doubt have considerable advantages in some areas (but still some disadvantages....but for me, the positives outweigh the negatives). Note that I just sold my last 26" hardtail.

    I hope to get hold of a demo 29er FS but until then, I am undecided on whether or not there is a linear relationship in terms of the advantages of 29" over 26" wheeled bikes based on what I perceive in hardtails.

    Cheers

  54. #54
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    A cross between my Leviathan and my Nitrous.

    I love the suspension on the Horst Nitrous compared to the Lev. I think the ideal would be your suspension designs applied to the Leviathan, in a lightweight package.

    Oh yeah, ya'll forgot a pic of the best FS 29er out there... 24.25lbs...

    MTB-)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by MTB-]; 03-13-2006 at 06:14 PM.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Show me.
    I regularly see tricked out 29er hardtails on the 29er forum that weigh 24/25 lbs that in a 26 inch setup would weigh 20/21lbs. I guarantee that a 29er 5 Spot using the exact same parts as it's 26" sibling would weigh 5-6lbs more. It's weird, all I hear on the 29'er forum is how 29'er wheels make a rigid bike feel like a 3" FS, my question is why the hell would you want an 8"( 5"+3") travel all mountain bike?
    My wife's tricked out 26" SS was 25lbs.
    My wifes tricked out 29" SS is 22lbs.

    My old 26" SS was 29lbs.
    My 29" SS is 25lbs.

    My 6" travel 26" bike weighed 35lbs.
    My 5" travel 29er weighs 32.

    Do you need to check your math?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    My wife's tricked out 26" SS was 25lbs.
    My wifes tricked out 29" SS is 22lbs.

    My old 26" SS was 29lbs.
    My 29" SS is 25lbs.

    My 6" travel 26" bike weighed 35lbs.
    My 5" travel 29er weighs 32.

    Do you need to check your math?
    Come on Padre, apples to apples. I've seen all the bikes your talking about and comparing a friggin boat anchor Surly to a Niner or the Vulture to the DeSalvo is like comparing turds to pickles, they may look the same from a distance but you'd wouldn't want one with a Pastrami sandwhich.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  57. #57
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    i think all things held equal (to the extent they can be), the 29er is gonna of course way a little more. Having said that, I think we are talking potentially only a little bit more depending on the application.

    My Large 29er SS frame weighs only 3.6 lbs, and that is with the EBB
    My wheelset on that bike weighs in at 1600 grams

    So while this is a XC oriented bike, I ride it pretty hard and have had zero problems so far. Sure a comparable 26" could weigh a little less but it is still light.

  58. #58
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    DT I just sent you an email

    I agree with this poster....Looks like the Leviathan is a decent bike, I would "almost buy one...BUT I love my Flux soooo much that I have decided to see what you come out with. I am not pulling the plug to buy a 29er until I see the Turner.

    KMan

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB-]
    A cross between my Leviathan and my Nitrous.

    I love the suspension on the Horst Nitrous compared to the Lev. I think the ideal would be your suspension designs applied to the Leviathan, in a lightweight package.

    Oh yeah, ya'll forgot a pic of the best FS 29er out there... 24.25lbs...

    MTB-)

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Seems that these are just trail bikes and grips and seats in same neighborhood is fine.
    Yes, I am not convinced the 29ers I ride are any faster on the trail. The wheels do seem to spin up slower, and I don't know if I would want one if I were a hardcore racer. They sure are more fun though. (for me).

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Surprise! Yes and most of the 29er riders that are responding to my call are tallish to Sasquatch height. No surprise there.
    Yes, indeed. For me the conversion was all about bike fit. I'll never go back unless I can think of a use for a big travel bike....not likely in my world.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  60. #60
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    Where the heck is Cloxxki when we need him? He's got spreadsheet after spreadsheet showing a 29"er is only going to be about 1-1.5#'s heavier.
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  61. #61
    what a joke
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    DT, there is a lot of advice and opinions on here, some good and some bad. I want a 5-6" travel FS 29er but there are no forks suitable yet, but there are tires in the works according to some insiders and I am sure that the forks will not be to far away. I love my Spot and would be happy with a 29er version of it but many want a shorter travel light weight rig. The point is everyone wants something different in their 29er.

    I ride a rigid Karate Monkey, I'm a clyde and not a very smoooth rider. Any suggestion by the "armchair experts" that wheels on 29ers are weak are F***#&#G idiots. In two years of solid riding, doing 3' drops and riding B lines on Dh course my XT hub/Delgado rims have needed trueing twice. THEY ARE NOT WEAK! Have alook at the pics of Aqua doing drops on his Jones for proof.

    Its easy for the experts to knock the 74deg head angle but how many rides have they had on said bike........ I would bet NONE! Back in the day, experts stated that disc brakes were never going to work, just like they stated that FS bikes were never going to work...... but they do , its taken a little while to tweak the designs, but they do work!

    May I suggest that you come up with a design, get a proto built and test ride it, let a few of the longer term 29er riders throw a leg over it as well as some total newb's to 29ers and see what they all say. Modify the design again repeat.

    Cheers
    blah blah blah

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozlongboarder
    I want a 5-6" travel FS 29er but there are no forks suitable yet, but there are tires in the works according to some insiders and I am sure that the forks will not be to far away.

    I ride a rigid Karate Monkey, I'm a clyde and not a very smoooth rider. Any suggestion by the "armchair experts" that wheels on 29ers are weak are F***#&#G idiots.
    All the 29er guys I ride with are in the same boat- we need a strong 5-6" travel frame. I've seen too many guys riding really technical stuff, 3 foot wheelie drops to flat and whatnot, on lightweight frames like Asylums and Dos Niners. It's no surprise they're breaking frames as fast as they are.

    Wheels, however, are not a problem. Gumby's been knocking out this stuff on his Karate Monkey for a while, with no ill wheel effects. Solid 29er all-mountain worthy wheels are not that hard to build. Here are a couple pics to illustrate:

    (sorry for the poor quality- still frames from a video)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  63. #63
    It's a Turner!
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    Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...

    You can have the best of both worlds! Yes, here's my 96'er - a 29" wheel up front, 26 in back. Rolls over big stuff easily. Handles 5ft drops no prob. Only 22lbs. One speed. Head angle did not get slacked out too much because I used the same fork, a surly 1x1 rigid, which has enough clearance for a 29" wheel and 2.2" kenda karma tire. It's perfect.
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    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  64. #64
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozlongboarder
    Its easy for the experts to knock the 74deg head angle but how many rides have they had on said bike........ I would bet NONE!
    Now this is funny. So I have ridden 2 fully 29ers with 70 degree HA's and I found them to be quick, but very rideable. I own a 29er hardtail with a stock 70 degree HA which was also quick, but much improved with a taller fork and now a slacker 68-70 degree HA. And now you are telling me that I should embrace that a 74 degree HA as a step in the right direction? ROTFLMAO.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozlongboarder

    I ride a rigid Karate Monkey, I'm a clyde and not a very smoooth rider. Any suggestion by the "armchair experts" that wheels on 29ers are weak are F***#&#G idiots. In two years of solid riding, doing 3' drops and riding B lines on Dh course my XT hub/Delgado rims have needed trueing twice
    Whoa, hardcore man.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  66. #66
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    wow

    It seems I have 2x the Emails at DT@turnerbikes.com compared to these posts, and yes they are just as diverse. But I see a trend. So I start with a bunch of questions, for months. Since I do not know anyone personally that rides a 29er, or better yet a whole clan with racers and huckers all together I have to ask the board. With only one fork available on the market, the Reba, and none of the other brands interested I see that this frame has to be in the Flux Spot tube set area, tire clearance and intent. It seems that White Bros has a claimed 130 fork, and there is the uber $ Mav with $ adapters.In other words for all the guys that want to go flying there is nothing really available in forks. WTB aint going heavier, Kenda is stand offish about any 29 tires, Maxxis has made thiers etc. So FR level tires aren't on the horizon. So I will stay away from upper travel fringe of the 29er. The tires on the market are thin cased and built for rolling fast. So with all this info and more I am getting a sense that a middle of the road travel and geometry trail bike is on the horizon. No big travel frames for a market with no forks or tires. Not a racer as I originally thought, as 26er parts for race bikes with forks tires rims that are way lighter are available everywhere so with the good Padre's and others #'s and opinions I will stay away from an ultra light racer.

    Ohhh and #9 on the frame list? It ain't a 5 pack as that is available now for those that need it, so it would not be a stand alone model.



    DT

  67. #67
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Not a racer as I originally thought
    I think that is a shame.

    In my humble opinion based on my experience, I find that the advantages of a 29er over a 26er are not linear with respect to weight. I find that the disadvantages of 29er present themselves in either a negligible way, if at all, when the bike is light and fast.

    In particular, the disadvantages I am talking about are the 29ers relative ability to be less flickable and have slower acceleration. When light however, these potential negatives are held at bay and dont present themselves in a meaningful way.

    Granted I am talking about this from a non-hucker perspective but nonetheless, that is my story and I am sticking to it. I think posting your question here is great of course but given that many, if not most Turner owners, are biased towards longer travel, your responses may be reflecting that and not that of the general 29er buying public.

    Cheers

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    Not a racer as I originally thought, as 26er parts for race bikes with forks tires rims that are way lighter are available everywhere so with the good Padre's and others #'s and opinions I will stay away from an ultra light racer.

    Ohhh and #9 on the frame list? It ain't a 5 pack as that is available now for those that need it, so it would not be a stand alone model.

    DT
    Lemmee guess? #9 is an even longer travel freeride bike so that everyone hopping on the Highline bandwagon this year will have something to upgrade to?

    It sounds to me like you're on the right track with the frame. As much as I'd like a super light 29"er for racing, I'd hate to feel like I couldn't push the envelope of what a 4" travel 29"er would be capable of on the trail. If it comes out closer to six pounds than seven it could still be built to ~25 lbs. and be plenty raceable for most mortals anyway. The Asylum is pretty popular as a race bike and it weighs over six pounds.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  69. #69
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    DT...do you consider the Flux a racer?

    Do you consider your Flux a "racer"?
    I sent my email with $.02 worth and am waiting for a Flux style 29er that I would race. Are you heading toward a Fivespot type frame..... or ?????

    KMan

    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    It seems I have 2x the Emails at DT@turnerbikes.com compared to these posts, and yes they are just as diverse. But I see a trend. So I start with a bunch of questions, for months. Since I do not know anyone personally that rides a 29er, or better yet a whole clan with racers and huckers all together I have to ask the board. With only one fork available on the market, the Reba, and none of the other brands interested I see that this frame has to be in the Flux Spot tube set area, tire clearance and intent. It seems that White Bros has a claimed 130 fork, and there is the uber $ Mav with $ adapters.In other words for all the guys that want to go flying there is nothing really available in forks. WTB aint going heavier, Kenda is stand offish about any 29 tires, Maxxis has made thiers etc. So FR level tires aren't on the horizon. So I will stay away from upper travel fringe of the 29er. The tires on the market are thin cased and built for rolling fast. So with all this info and more I am getting a sense that a middle of the road travel and geometry trail bike is on the horizon. No big travel frames for a market with no forks or tires. Not a racer as I originally thought, as 26er parts for race bikes with forks tires rims that are way lighter are available everywhere so with the good Padre's and others #'s and opinions I will stay away from an ultra light racer.

    Ohhh and #9 on the frame list? It ain't a 5 pack as that is available now for those that need it, so it would not be a stand alone model.



    DT

  70. #70
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    exactly....Fluxish 29er would be the ticket. Of course it wont weigh the same as the 26" flux but relatively speaking, will be light and that is where it is at.

  71. #71
    what a joke
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Now this is funny. So I have ridden 2 fully 29ers with 70 degree HA's and I found them to be quick, but very rideable. I own a 29er hardtail with a stock 70 degree HA which was also quick, but much improved with a taller fork and now a slacker 68-70 degree HA. And now you are telling me that I should embrace that a 74 degree HA as a step in the right direction? ROTFLMAO.
    I did not say embrace it it with open arms, I said you dont REALLY know until you try it.
    blah blah blah

  72. #72
    what a joke
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Whoa, hardcore man.

    blah blah blah

  73. #73
    what a joke
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    Here is a pic of the Kenda Nevegal 2.35 from the Solitude cycles webpage. Photo was taken at the Taipei show.

    http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5...er%20tyres.jpg
    blah blah blah

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