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  1. #1
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    Another One Bites the Dust

    Sperky is out. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...=1#post1648818

    I suspect more riders make the switch from Turners to a full suspension 29"er (of which there are all of a half dozen or so on the market) than to any one brand of 26" full suspension bikes. This is what your competition looks like these days Dave, let's hurry up and stop the bleeding!
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    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  2. #2
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    I'm staying with my 29er hardtail till DT gives me a fully...
    I want one now =\
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    I'm staying with my 29er hardtail till DT gives me a fully...
    I want one now =\
    Ditto and ditto. It gets harder every day though.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  4. #4
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    Do you already have a turner? If so, it's not nearly as hard for you as it is for me!! I was saving for a 5spot for 6 months, then I decided to do an archaeology field school this summer- so no riding from may-august! So I took the money I had saved and bought a 29er hardtail so I could get in as much riding b/t now and may.. I'm kinda glad I did, so now my first FS will be a Turner AND a 29er.. Maybe if I mail Dave Turner a ziploc bag filled with tears he'll make one just for me =)
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    Do you already have a turner?
    Nope. I have two.

    Sorry, that was mean. Tough decision you had there, but I imagine yours was the correct one in the end, if a bit hard to stomach for now. Too bad you can't take a bike with you though.

    I honestly think more about my Turner when I'm on 29" wheels than the other way around. I'm usually quite happy with the performance of my Spot/Flux, but when I'm on my 29"er hardtail I can't help but wonder "What if I had these big wheels to gobble up the rough stuff, and four or five inches of suspension?". I suppose that doesn't make you feel any better though.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  6. #6
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    I think I'll make it in the end. I did see that 'dave says 29ers a definate yes' or something like that. I really hope a 4-5" will come out before I break all the parts on my bike. The bigger wheels have permitted me to really push myself in all aspects of my riding. BTW, If you ever want to give away that flux though, I'd gladly take it off your hands..
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  7. #7
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I have a 29er too, but I don't see much overlap between it and our shed full of Turners.

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
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    Woah! Did you get that from another homer? Bob? AKC?
    I'd swear Surly made one of those things and folks are passin it around like a spliff.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  9. #9
    No, that's not phonetic
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    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I'd swear Surly made one of those things and folks are passin it around like a spliff.

    Hilarious.

  11. #11
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    I know there's not much overlap. Ive wanted a turner for a long time, but now Id like one with the chubby wheels. Besides, everyone needs a bike that allows them to go WAY faster than they should ever go.. btw tscheezy, I've always wanted to go to Alaska and really enjoy all your photos =)
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  12. #12
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    Bwa!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    Maybe if I mail Dave Turner a ziploc bag filled with tears he'll make one just for me =)
    that's so sweet. really.



    no, really.
    lets not make it a religion, it is recreation

  13. #13
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Anyone who sells their super-balanced Turner to buy that 74-degree head-angle Intense... well, all I can say is, good riddance.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Anyone who sells their super-balanced Turner to buy that 74-degree head-angle Intense... well, all I can say is, good riddance.
    Well, it's not like tire clearance with the VPP design should be an issue, for the time being anyway. Plus, I have it on pretty good authority (Instant Obsolescence - Intense Spider 29) that the Spider makes all other bikes obsolete.

    As far as overlap, I don't think there would be much overlap between a light 29" Flux and your Spot & Pack either.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  15. #15
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    Do you really ride faster with them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rootberry
    Besides, everyone needs a bike that allows them to go WAY faster than they should ever go
    I understand the rolling over obastacles part, but I've heard mixed reviews from folks that ride them. I have a TI Single Speed 26er, but I am very interested in a Desalvo 29er.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  16. #16
    No, that's not phonetic
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    They do transition over obstacles more easily than smaller wheeled bikes. Imagine riding down the trail on a bike with tiny wheels. They'd get hung up on every root. That's what the larger wheels fix. I don't buy any of the larger contact patch or gyroscopic stabilizing arguments, but they do "roll well". And if the bike is properly designed it does not end up feeling sluggish or like a clown bike.

    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  17. #17
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    Sperky here. I've been eyeing the Asylum 29er for awhile. Being a tall guy with long legs and short torso the 29er really made sense to me. Plus I do a lot of endurance riding (no hucking) so was ready for a dramatic change. Don't get me wrong....the Burner is an awesome bike and had Turner come along with their 29er sooner I'd would have probably considered one of those. But with not even a prototype to see I figured the wait would be too long. The Asylum is basically a Titus 29er and although I haven't had a lot of riding on it I can tell it fits just a little better, in large part to the fact the handlebars sit much higher, so now I'm not so hunched over.

    So am I still allowed to get Homer advice from you guys?!

  18. #18
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    26" vs. 29" for racing

    There is a very interesting thread on the Endurance Racing Board discussing the efficiency of a 26" race bike vs. a 29" race bike. For anyone interested, here is the link:

    29er vs 26er efficiency

    I have to give hairball_dh a lot of credit for making a solid effort to find out which bike is fastest for him. The key here is which bike HE is faster on. He took 26" and 29" similarly equipped bikes, both with PowerTaps, to the 24 Hours of Old Pueblo and raced both of them during the event. The 26" bike proved faster.

  19. #19
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by sperky
    So am I still allowed to get Homer advice from you guys?!
    Sure, if you don't mind a canard as advice. Only Homers get the straight scoop.

    BTW- PPA (Pocket Protector Alert)!!

    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  20. #20
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    Thanks. I really do prefer long travel bikes, however

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    the government has my family and me hostage in south texas for a couple of more years, and my single speed is a little better suited to most of the terrain than my 5 Pack. I'm from the bay area and I've lived in Alaska, Tucson, and now here, so the singlespeed is just for the local flat/hilly trails. The Pack accompanies me back to Norcal, Arizona, and Utah.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  21. #21
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    hey cheese. i was goin through this thread and noticed yer comment on the head angle of the intense. i totally agree it looks wacky as hell and i dont profess to understand exactly why it not only is prefered on the big wheeled bikes but seems to work well accordin to a hefty handfull of pals and custys who ride them. maybe aqua, jj or others can pipe in and explain some. sure does look nasty though doesnt it?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  22. #22
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Yeah, I like the 74 degree HA on by big-wheeled bike. Oh, yeah, it's a ROAD BIKE.

    Seriously though, the Pugsley is at 68 deg now with the SC32 fork (with very little sag) and it rides waaaay nicer than it did with the shorter rigid Surly fork @70 deg, and I am going to put a 4mm Ventana King crown on too.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpenglow
    ..and my single speed is a little better suited to most of the terrain than my 5 Pack...
    ...just curious about your thoughts in regards to the 5 Pack....you diggin?


  24. #24
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    i understand ya here i think but even though the outside tire dia must be close to the same, is it really a fair comparison? takin into account the lower tire psi, the huge tire size and how the size will dramaticly change geo when compressed front to rear. im not sure of the rest of the static geo but ill guess its not all that close. also theres the intent of both bikes which are pretty different. not baggin on ya at all, just thinkin theres more than one way to look at this plus im interested.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  25. #25
    No, that's not phonetic
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    CC, yer graspin' at straws there, boy. Yes the overall tire diameter is the same. The contact patch is bigger and the pressures lower, but you don't see-saw back and forth on jello rubber. In fact, even at low pressures they ride very firmly. The geometries are directly applicable. 74 is still terrifying any way you slice it.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  26. #26
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    I like my 29er hardtail alot. I bought it because it just felt good. I felt much more balanced on it that any of the other 26er hardtails that I've ridden. It's not a bike fit thing, the slightly bigger wheels just felt different, in a good way. I'm only 6' tall, so it's not like I'm real tall riding an XXL bike or anything. Should people not ride what they like? I would say yes- which means what I'd really like to ride is a 29er turner =)
    It's not hip hop, it's electro.....

  27. #27
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    I'v actually gone back to my Spot

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ...just curious about your thoughts in regards to the 5 Pack....you diggin?
    Until Scott from Go-Ride releases his "product" to fix the geometry. Many people on this board speculated that the 5 Pack would yield slacker geometry than the 5 Spot. It actually has a 1 degree steeper HA & and a higher BB. Scott's fix will maintain the 5 SPots geometry. So, I liked the solidness of the ride, but I am waiting on the Geometry fix.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  28. #28
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    thats cool. i figured it would be kinda jelloy like ya called it so i guess im wrong... again. gawd i hate it when that happens. i havent spent any time on a 29er so i have no basis for argument on way or another. i have a redline monocog 29er on order but its on a slow boat so i dont know when ill get a shot at it. unfortunately no geo is available on their website so i dont know what im gettin myself into. i can tell ya that my 29er pals say they enjoyed the steeper h/t angle fisher made but i agree it looks down right scary. how it rides? i dunno.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  29. #29
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I've ridden the Lenz Leviathan (3") and Behemoth (5") 29ers. Both rode fine, both have ~70 deg HA. The new Ventanas are a hair over 70. I'm not saying Intense shouldn't build a 29er with a 74 degree HA, I'm just saying I won't be buying one.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    i can tell ya that my 29er pals say they enjoyed the steeper h/t angle fisher made but i agree it looks down right scary. how it rides? i dunno.
    I didn't think the head angles on Fisher 29"ers were particularly steep. The head angle on my Paragon is 71 deg, which for me is just about right on a hardtail. I like Turner's graduated travel/head angle inverse correlation (i.e. 4"=70 deg, 5"=69 deg, etc), and don't think I would want any steeper of a head angle on a FS 29"er.

    To me, the idea is to have a bike that has a distinctive ride from that of a 26" bike, not one that trys to mimic it with whacked geometry. Yes, the wheelbase on a 29"er will always be longer than a similar 26" bike, but I think we've established here (at the bequest of Mr. Bottoms) that a longer wheelbase is not necessarily a bad thing, and (within reason) can even be desirable.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  31. #31
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    Warning

    If all? of you guys that want a Turner 29er want me to do it right the first time, ie, no road head angles than you better send me your wish list of #'s to DT@turnerbikes.com immediatly. I have been working on it, but before I release drawings I want to get some more feedback.

    Tommorrow!!! would be good. I am in the mood for a big wheel bike.

    DT

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    If all? of you guys that want a Turner 29er want me to do it right the first time, ie, no road head angles than you better send me your wish list of #'s to DT@turnerbikes.com immediatly. I have been working on it, but before I release drawings I want to get some more feedback.

    Tommorrow!!! would be good. I am in the mood for a big wheel bike.

    DT
    How about a steel hardtail one???

    Any chance the 29'er will be ready for I-Bike in September?

  33. #33
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    9:45!

    And I still have not gotten 1 (one) phone call or E mail to discuss the 29er geometry?!

    The only way it will be ready is if I can get it done soon. The plan is to have it done for Interbike, as few probably. They will run from Medium to Sasquatch.

    No steel hardtails, sorry.

    DT

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    And I still have not gotten 1 (one) phone call or E mail to discuss the 29er geometry?!

    The only way it will be ready is if I can get it done soon. The plan is to have it done for Interbike, as few probably. They will run from Medium to Sasquatch.

    No steel hardtails, sorry.

    DT
    No offense DT, but you would probably be getting a lot more feedback if you posted this in the 29er forum. Maybe more than you want...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    Hit the nail on the head.
    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in) so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    If you like hard tails or shorter travel rigs, they are worth looking into. If you like long travel bikes, 29er does not have a lot to offer.
    Cheez, you are full of poop. Considering there are already two solid 5x5 29er bikes out there by Ventana and Lenz (and another of pack of custom builders using Ventana rear ends).

    Hater.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in) so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place.
    Just think of a 30# 21" 5-Spot with clyde-approved parts.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    And I still have not gotten 1 (one) phone call or E mail to discuss the 29er geometry?!

    The only way it will be ready is if I can get it done soon. The plan is to have it done for Interbike, as few probably. They will run from Medium to Sasquatch.

    No steel hardtails, sorry.

    DT
    Start with an El Capitan. Add a Horst Link. Voila - best thing since my '02 RFX.
    Professional Amateur. Disagree? Submit your grievances here.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Just think of a 30# 21" 5-Spot with clyde-approved parts.
    Sounds like the bike I was begging for this weekend, although even 32 pounds would be great. I need something lighter than my 41 lb Uzzi, and I'm not buying another 26er that's anything less than a freeride bike.

    Give me a 5" travel 29er that I can throw off 3-5' drops, yet still ride on all-day epics, and I'll be a happy man. The Lenz Behemoth is ugly, and the El Cap looks weirdly unbalanced (no matter how well it rides). A 29er 5 Spot would be perfect. Bikezilla needs one as well...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Just think of a 30# 21" 5-Spot with clyde-approved parts.
    Show me.
    I regularly see tricked out 29er hardtails on the 29er forum that weigh 24/25 lbs that in a 26 inch setup would weigh 20/21lbs. I guarantee that a 29er 5 Spot using the exact same parts as it's 26" sibling would weigh 5-6lbs more. It's weird, all I hear on the 29'er forum is how 29'er wheels make a rigid bike feel like a 3" FS, my question is why the hell would you want an 8"( 5"+3") travel all mountain bike?
    "Do not touch the trim"

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbogner
    Sounds like the bike I was begging for this weekend, although even 32 pounds would be great. I need something lighter than my 41 lb Uzzi, and I'm not buying another 26er that's anything less than a freeride bike.

    Give me a 5" travel 29er that I can throw off 3-5' drops, yet still ride on all-day epics, and I'll be a happy man. The Lenz Behemoth is ugly, and the El Cap looks weirdly unbalanced (no matter how well it rides). A 29er 5 Spot would be perfect. Bikezilla needs one as well...
    Hmmm, 5' drops, I hope your willing to replace wheel parts regularly.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Hater.
    Zealot?
    "Do not touch the trim"

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Hit the nail on the head.
    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in) so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place.
    Good to see you trolling over here now too, but DT's got me in a good mood today and I'm feeling generous, so I'll bite.

    Hit the nail on the head.
    I'd be curious to know if Tscheezy actually meant what you're suggesting (29"ers with over 4" of travel are impractical), or if his statement was more of a summarization of what the market currently offers for 29" wheels. Or perhaps both. You just seem to be making a lot of his statement that could mean something else entirely from what you're inferring. Ultimately what either of you think is little more than one person's opinion, even if his does carry some weight in my book since he's ridden a 5" travel 29"er.

    Just think, a 35 lbs 5 Spot
    A 29" Spot would of course be heavier than a 26", but you seem to be exaggerating the associated weight increase just a bit. Unless you're assuming a 26" Spot weight of 33-34 lbs, which is on the high side and more in line with what a lot of Packs/RFX's are coming in at. Can you please explain in further detail how you're coming up with this figure?

    ( they will gain this much weight when frame, fork, real wheels, and tires are factored in)
    A 10% weight increase is a pretty good rule of thumb for figuring out how much more a comparable 29" item will weigh. The parts you listed on my Spot total 18 lbs, so my 29" Spot would probably jump from 30 lbs. to 31.8 A maximum of a two pound weight increase is what you could expect to see, not unlike what gaining an extra inch of travel would cost you in weight on the frame & fork. I, for one, would rather be riding a 32 lb. 5 Spot 29"er than a 32 lb. RFX.

    so you can roll over stuff you should just be jumping and clearing in the first place
    I haven't seen you ride, but most riders spend more time on the trail than in the air. When you are in the air you have to come down, and unless your trail is perfectly groomed the big wheels will help your landing. Then there's the whole matter of techinical climbs, but maybe you just jump right up those too?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  44. #44
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    zealot hater

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    zealot hater

    Easy Aquaho.....I mean Fo. I can be mean but not that mean.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  46. #46
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    Look at the Lenz Sport Leviathan, they look like they got it right, keep it light the El Capitan is way to heavy in the larger sizes. Why the turn around?

  47. #47
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Easy Aquaho.....I mean Fo. I can be mean but not that mean.
    ha ha....

    the only downside I see with Turner making 29ers is that there are already too many homers and knowing Dave, the bike would be great so PLEASE DONT MAKE IT

  48. #48
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Cheez, you are full of poop. Considering there are already two solid 5x5 29er bikes out there by Ventana and Lenz (and another of pack of custom builders using Ventana rear ends).
    So now the Ventana gets 5" in back? Maybe Sherwood should update the website. And I rode the Behemoth. It was ok. But for you to imply these things are moving into the light FR arena is complete pap. Show me one burly 29er fork (BTW the WB forks sucked, call me a hater there ), and don't make me start laughing at the 29er tire selection again.

    You call me a hater, but this is an amazingly clueless statement in light of the fact that I actually enjoyed the 29ers I have ridden (WB forks aside).
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    ha ha....

    the only downside I see with Turner making 29ers is that there are already too many homers and knowing Dave, the bike would be great so PLEASE DONT MAKE IT
    You know, it probably would be a nice bike. And for the record I don't hate 29'ers, if I was gonna get a new SS it'd be a 29'er as I think that's where the big wheels shine. I do however take umbridge with the cult like worship of the big wheels and that they do everything better. For true freeride/all mountain stuff where 5-6" travel bikes are being bottomed out I think the larger wheels will really reveal there limitations.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    It's weird, all I hear on the 29'er forum is how 29'er wheels make a rigid bike feel like a 3" FS, my question is why the hell would you want an 8"( 5"+3") travel all mountain bike?
    Interesting. My question is why wouldn't you?

    Which do you think would a more fun all mountain (i.e. up and down the mountain) bike: a 42 lb. Highline or a 32 lb. 5 Spot 29"er? If you can add a comparable level of comfort and control but increase the bike weight by two pounds instead of twelve, why wouldn't you? (Unless 10'+ drops are your thing).
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

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