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  1. #1
    Daniel the Dog
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    ... and if we just ... Another boring first ride report....

    I took my first ride on my new Turner 5 Spot. Nice ride. It was the smoothest cross country bike I have ever ridden due to the wonderful Romic shock. The bike is very stable, yet has some trouble in real tight woods situations. Oh, well, no bike does it all.

    I have a 120mm Marathon S on the bike. The bike climbs very well with the fork clamped down by the ECC. However, in 120 mode it did feel a touch slack on climbs.

    The thing that strikes me about this bike is the quietness of ride. Part of that is I don't have the chatter of the Fox Vanilla on climbs. Nice.

    I have not had a chance to really let this bike go bonkers because I rode in the tight woods today on some very rocky trails. Tomorrow I'm going to let this bike rock on some downhill type descents. That is going to be cool.

    A nice bike. Great purchase. This bike is a jack of all trades. However, I would be a bit bummed if I did not have ECC because I climb so much and it doesn't exactly put you in perfect climbing position with the fork in full travel. Overall, a great bike.

    Jaybo
    Last edited by Jaybo; 02-27-2009 at 09:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Trail Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I took my first ride on my new Turner 5 Spot. Nice ride. It was the smoothest cross country bike I have ever ridden due to the wonderful Romic shock. The bike is very stable, yet has some trouble in real tight woods situations. Oh, well, no bike does it all.

    I have a 120mm Marathon S on the bike. The bike climbs very well with the fork clamped down by the ECC. However, in 120 mode it did feel a touch slack on climbs.

    The thing that strikes me about this bike is the quietness of ride. Part of that is I don't have the chatter of the Fox Vanilla on climbs. Nice.

    I have not had a chance to really let this bike go bonkers because I rode in the tight woods today on some very rocky trails. Tomorrow I'm going to let this bike rock on some downhill type descents. That is going to be cool.

    A nice bike. Great purchase. This bike is a jack of all trades. However, I would be a bit bummed if I did not have ECC because I climb so much and it doesn't exactly put you in perfect climbing position with the fork in full travel. Overall, a great bike.

    Jaybo
    Thanks for the ride report. I'm thinking of trying the Talas fork because when I climb, it would be real nice to be down to 85 mm
    on fork that works. You've ridden/owned quite a few high end bikes in the past year or two. Maybe that's why your first ride report isn't as flattering as all the rest. Hope to hear how it goes DH.

  3. #3
    Daniel the Dog
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    ... and if we just ... I try and stay objective....

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro
    Thanks for the ride report. I'm thinking of trying the Talas fork because when I climb, it would be real nice to be down to 85 mm
    on fork that works. You've ridden/owned quite a few high end bikes in the past year or two. Maybe that's why your first ride report isn't as flattering as all the rest. Hope to hear how it goes DH.
    I like the coil over and having 5" of travel. Those things along made the $300 I spent on the frame exchange worth it; however, as in business, a strength usually has some weaknesses. For example, the straight downtube is a strength in my mind because I can drop the seat when crawling down steep descents. The downside of a straight downtube is less standover. The strength of 5" of travel is awesome cush along with great descending ability. The downside is a higher bottom bracket and usually a slacker bike.

    Overall, I"m very pleased. I will never be the guy who states definately that a bike is the best on the planet. The Spot is an awesome trail bike. However, if I was racing, I would rather have a Blur, Spyder, or Fuel. I'm really not trying to ruffle feathers or be contra.

    I'm going to Syncline up in the Gorge today to ride little Moab. A freeridish environment that should put the Spot to the test. A environment that should be perfect for this bike.

    Get the ECC! It really helps in climbing. I have never ridden a Talas, but most people think they are super plush and very nice--as you well know.

    Last, I feel grateful and thankful to have the money and ability to ride such great bikes. That I'm quite sure of!

    Jaybo
    Last edited by Jaybo; 03-07-2004 at 06:56 AM.

  4. #4
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    Interesting... Perhaps trail types influence the need...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    ...
    Get the ECC! It really helps in climbing. I have never ridden a Talas, but most people think they are super plush and very nice--as you well know.

    Jaybo
    I'm somewhat suprised when I read about the need to use lockouts and travel adjusters. Not because I don't think they're helpful or effective but rather around here, people hardly ever use them. Myself included. I'm running a Z1 and an MX Comp and I suppose because the climbs are generally so rough, steep, frequent and short, I don't have the time to switch back and forth every few minuets. Also the bike just seems so balanced the front rarely wanders or pops up until I force it to.

    I was riding road on my HT with some of my regular trail buddies today. They had their road bikes, and a couple of them didn't even know what my ETA was.(Fox riders ) Of course I fell off the back after ~20 mi. I'm guessing on longer smoother climbs, especially out of the saddle, travel adjusters and lockouts are indespensable. It sure helped me today. But the trails I ride, rarely meet that criteria, and I avoid getting out of the saddle. I use to look on standing as capitulation to the hill. The road ride gave me new appreciation for it though.

    Just offering a different perspective. Maybe someone can tell me about their lockout needs.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  5. #5
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    ..........I would concur 'Zilla. I also have had no real need for my ETA on the Z1. The climbs around here are as steep as they can get & still be rideable, & I have only been impressed with the 'Spots climbing prowess (having owned & ridden several dozen XC designs in my time). As far as the slacker HT & twisty singletrack, I ride alot of DH as well, so I feel right at home on the 5S. I can make the bike as snappy as I wish. I am sure in time you will grow accustomed to it (although I do realize some folks really prefer the steeper angles....I am not one of them)

  6. #6
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    I have a Vanilla 125R on my 5 Spot and so far I have much more satisfaction on the climbs than my old RM Blizzard with a 100mm Marathon SL (equipped with ECC lockout). Maybe the new tires help too, but so far the Spot has been gobbling up the climbs. Maybe I'll have more to report later though.

    Duncan

  7. #7
    Daniel the Dog
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    ... and if we just ... Could be my rider position too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I'm somewhat suprised when I read about the need to use lockouts and travel adjusters. Not because I don't think they're helpful or effective but rather around here, people hardly ever use them. Myself included. I'm running a Z1 and an MX Comp and I suppose because the climbs are generally so rough, steep, frequent and short, I don't have the time to switch back and forth every few minuets. Also the bike just seems so balanced the front rarely wanders or pops up until I force it to.

    I was riding road on my HT with some of my regular trail buddies today. They had their road bikes, and a couple of them didn't even know what my ETA was.(Fox riders ) Of course I fell off the back after ~20 mi. I'm guessing on longer smoother climbs, especially out of the saddle, travel adjusters and lockouts are indespensable. It sure helped me today. But the trails I ride, rarely meet that criteria, and I avoid getting out of the saddle. I use to look on standing as capitulation to the hill. The road ride gave me new appreciation for it though.

    Just offering a different perspective. Maybe someone can tell me about their lockout needs.
    I went for another ride today on some freeridish stuff with long downhills. The Spot absolutely rocked! Wow. I went faster then I have ever went on a cross country bike. Wonderful ride.

    I wonder if I'm in a different position then you. I could also be used to a lower rider position. I'm not criticising the bike. Man! That bike eats up rocks, roots, and bumps. I was so impressed. Plus, the Romic seem to tame pedal induced bobbing--along with the 4-bar design.

    I'm keeping this bike for a long time....really!

    Jaybo

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I. The bike is very stable, yet has some trouble in real tight woods situations.

    However, in 120 mode it did feel a touch slack on climbs.

    However, I would be a bit bummed if I did not have ECC because I climb so much and it doesn't exactly put you in perfect climbing position with the fork in full travel.
    Wow.

    Those comments don't track my experiences at all.

  9. #9
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Screw Up My Mojo

    I am a set it and forget it kind of guy, so I don't think I would be interested in ETA, ECC, ECT. Too much fiddling on the ride would screw up my mojo. Thus, I have the 125 VanillaR on my new 5-Spot. My experience with the steering and climbing is that the 5-Spot's steering is slower compared to my Superlight, but I don't care. Also, easier to climb in the seat on the 5-Spot because, among other reasons, my front wheel tends to stay down better. Very few situations where I would prefer the Superlight or want an ETA, ECC, ECT. Maybe 10 mile smooth fireroad climbs or pavement.

  10. #10
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    Did someone mention tight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I'm keeping this bike for a long time....really!

    Jaybo


    Y'know I've been toying with the idea of starting an MTBR pool on how long you keep this bike. Tripple-payout if it makes it past the end of the year!

    Seriously though, it sounds like you're adjusting from the low CG of the Blur and the quicker steering of the SB and Blur.

    Here's how I regard the transition from my 9yr old HT... w/resp to steering, I am switching between a 71.5 HTa to a 68-ish. Night and day. While one will go where I glance, the other will hold a line until I mail a change of address. What I've come to realize is I spend more effort correcting my over steering on the "quicker" bike than I do coaxing my "slower" bike into the line. One is act-and-react the other is more plan ahead a bit, and use a little more shoulder. Different not difficult.

    Plus on the HT, I need faster steering to pick my way around a rock garden...my 'Spot I just blaze straight through it.

    Thanks for the update, with your experience, I'm looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the bike.

    Here's a laugher from one of my favorite local spots...5 feet and 90-degs from the base of a rock studded steep sketchy drop.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 03-07-2004 at 10:06 PM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  11. #11
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    location

    hey man, looks like you are in portland / hood river too. i just bought a spot but haven't put it together yet. I ride a lot out in HR and I'm looking for people who are of like mind: tech. downhillers but still enjoy epics/climbing etc...would you be into doing some rides at some point? enjoy little moab. I'm thinking Sincline and Crybaby would be a great first test for the spot. I don't know if its taboo to exchange numbers on here but here's my e-mail address: cvmartin@qwest.net

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I took my first ride on my new Turner 5 Spot. Nice ride. It was the smoothest cross country bike I have ever ridden due to the wonderful Romic shock. The bike is very stable, yet has some trouble in real tight woods situations. Oh, well, no bike does it all.

    I have a 120mm Marathon S on the bike. The bike climbs very well with the fork clamped down by the ECC. However, in 120 mode it did feel a touch slack on climbs.

    The thing that strikes me about this bike is the quietness of ride. Part of that is I don't have the chatter of the Fox Vanilla on climbs. Nice.

    I have not had a chance to really let this bike go bonkers because I rode in the tight woods today on some very rocky trails. Tomorrow I'm going to let this bike rock on some downhill type descents. That is going to be cool.

    A nice bike. Great purchase. This bike is a jack of all trades. However, I would be a bit bummed if I did not have ECC because I climb so much and it doesn't exactly put you in perfect climbing position with the fork in full travel. Overall, a great bike.

    Jaybo

  12. #12
    Daniel the Dog
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    Always looking for more riding partners.....

    Quote Originally Posted by yeroc
    hey man, looks like you are in portland / hood river too. i just bought a spot but haven't put it together yet. I ride a lot out in HR and I'm looking for people who are of like mind: tech. downhillers but still enjoy epics/climbing etc...would you be into doing some rides at some point? enjoy little moab. I'm thinking Sincline and Crybaby would be a great first test for the spot. I don't know if its taboo to exchange numbers on here but here's my e-mail address: cvmartin@qwest.net
    I go to Syncline almost every weekend. I usually take a buddy, but lately my best riding buddy has gone motocross. Regardless, I always run into someone to ride with...I rode Hidden Valley and some other trail through the valley below the Syncline. Gnarly! I actually walked a bit because I did not want to dent my new Spot. Laugh. I would have blasted through on my other bikes...

    Lets ride,

    Jay

    PS you go mail....

  13. #13
    Daniel the Dog
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    I'm done or looking for a new family...laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla


    Y'know I've been toying with the idea of starting an MTBR pool on how long you keep this bike. Tripple-payout if it makes it past the end of the year!

    Seriously though, it sounds like you're adjusting from the low CG of the Blur and the quicker steering of the SB and Blur.

    Here's how I regard the transition from my 9yr old HT... w/resp to steering, I am switching between a 71.5 HTa to a 68-ish. Night and day. While one will go where I glance, the other will hold a line until I mail a change of address. What I've come to realize is I spend more effort correcting my over steering on the "quicker" bike than I do coaxing my "slower" bike into the line. One is act-and-react the other is more plan ahead a bit, and use a little more shoulder. Different not difficult.

    Plus on the HT, I need faster steering to pick my way around a rock garden...my 'Spot I just blaze straight through it.

    Thanks for the update, with your experience, I'm looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the bike.

    Here's a laugher from one of my favorite local spots...5 feet and 90-degs from the base of a rock studded steep sketchy drop.
    Great pic. I am done. I love this bike. I wanted a more freeridish bike that could still climb. The Spot is that bike. Plus, I love the coil over and five inches of travel. I'm smitten. I had more fun today then I have had on a bike in eons. Great bike.

    Jaybo

  14. #14
    FM
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    On ETA/ECC:

    I've had ETA on a MX-pro (on my hardtail), and on a Z1 and now a 2004 Z150 on my RFX. I use it a lot. It just depends on the ride- if it's a rolly technical ride with short climbs, I might not use it at all. Or a rough fire-road, I might not use it there. But for steep climbs where there is a chance of looping out, I'll use it- there it means I don't have to put as much weight on the nose of the saddle to keep the front end down. Or on long smooth fire-roads where climbing out of the saddle is an option, then it's awesome. Those instances are pretty frequent for me, so I'm sold on marzocchis ETA feature.

    I have crashed off of wheelie-drops in the middle of a technical climb, only to find that I forgot to turn off the ETA. This was only on my 2003 Z-1 though, where the ETA lever spins with the pre-load knob, so you don't really have a good visual cue as to whether it's engaged or not. They've really fixed this on the 2004 forks. I don't think I'd care for a talus for this reason though- too much thought involved. I prefer ON/OFF. Als, using it is a habit. You have to remind yourself it's an option, then you use it and you'll be glad you did. If you ignore it (and some rides, this is a good idea) then it just might as well not be there.

    Jaybo, as for your thoughts: I've done the same thing in the past. It just takes a few rides to get to know a new bike. In reality the 5-spot has a much lower BB than a 5"+5" switchblade. Also climbs better and is also better in tight woods imho. But, not until you get used to it. Maybe thats the fun part of owning a new bike!


    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ..........I would concur 'Zilla. I also have had no real need for my ETA on the Z1. The climbs around here are as steep as they can get & still be rideable, & I have only been impressed with the 'Spots climbing prowess (having owned & ridden several dozen XC designs in my time). As far as the slacker HT & twisty singletrack, I ride alot of DH as well, so I feel right at home on the 5S. I can make the bike as snappy as I wish. I am sure in time you will grow accustomed to it (although I do realize some folks really prefer the steeper angles....I am not one of them)

  15. #15
    Daniel the Dog
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    On ETA/ECC:

    I've had ETA on a MX-pro (on my hardtail), and on a Z1 and now a 2004 Z150 on my RFX. I use it a lot. It just depends on the ride- if it's a rolly technical ride with short climbs, I might not use it at all. Or a rough fire-road, I might not use it there. But for steep climbs where there is a chance of looping out, I'll use it- there it means I don't have to put as much weight on the nose of the saddle to keep the front end down. Or on long smooth fire-roads where climbing out of the saddle is an option, then it's awesome. Those instances are pretty frequent for me, so I'm sold on marzocchis ETA feature.

    I have crashed off of wheelie-drops in the middle of a technical climb, only to find that I forgot to turn off the ETA. This was only on my 2003 Z-1 though, where the ETA lever spins with the pre-load knob, so you don't really have a good visual cue as to whether it's engaged or not. They've really fixed this on the 2004 forks. I don't think I'd care for a talus for this reason though- too much thought involved. I prefer ON/OFF. Als, using it is a habit. You have to remind yourself it's an option, then you use it and you'll be glad you did. If you ignore it (and some rides, this is a good idea) then it just might as well not be there.

    Jaybo, as for your thoughts: I've done the same thing in the past. It just takes a few rides to get to know a new bike. In reality the 5-spot has a much lower BB than a 5"+5" switchblade. Also climbs better and is also better in tight woods imho. But, not until you get used to it. Maybe thats the fun part of owning a new bike!
    You're are right about it taking some time to get used to a bike. You know, I thought about making my Blade a long-travel bike; however, I figured once I bought the 5" link I would be into the purchase enough that I might as well buy the Spot. Plus, the Spot is designed for 5" of travel. The Blade was designed with 4.5" of travel. Oh, I got the used Spot very cheaply. I was amazed by the ride quality yesterday.

    The 2004 Marzocch knobs are great! You can just reach down and activate them no problem--while riding. Very cool.

    What is the difference between the Spot and the RFX?

    Thanks,

    Jaybo

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I went for another ride today on some freeridish stuff with long downhills. The Spot absolutely rocked! Wow. I went faster then I have ever went on a cross country bike. Wonderful ride.

    I wonder if I'm in a different position then you. I could also be used to a lower rider position. I'm not criticising the bike. Man! That bike eats up rocks, roots, and bumps. I was so impressed. Plus, the Romic seem to tame pedal induced bobbing--along with the 4-bar design.

    I'm keeping this bike for a long time....really!

    Jaybo
    Glad to see ya like it so much.. and we believe ya when you say your gonna keep it for a while...[You should it's a great bike..as were all the others] BUT what are ya gonna do when the new SB comes out for 05????

  17. #17
    FM
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    I know you're just kidding, but as a former switchblade owner I have to wonder what a new and improved titus switchblade would be like. Here's what I see in my crystal ball:

    Ability to run coil-over shocks, like a romic.
    No more interrupted seat tube.
    5" travel, stock.

    So, basically you'd have a 5-spot with bearings, a polished rear, and ano front end!

    P.S. Jaybo, have you tried slamming your seat all the way down for a steep descent yet? That alone makes me not miss my switchblade at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by abomb
    BUT what are ya gonna do when the new SB comes out for 05????

  18. #18
    Tonight we ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Ability to run coil-over shocks, like a romic.
    No more interrupted seat tube.
    5" travel, stock.
    -Coilover would be nice, you can do it if you want currently but goodbye warranty. I doubt that will change though, since this frame is more on the light weight XC side of things.

    -I doubt the interrupted ST is going anywhere, and personally I don't think that would be a good idea, not only would it have nothing in common with the current SB frame design, but it would change the linkage setup substantially. 3" of seatpost adjustment is more than I ever use myself, and again, the need for more probably doesn't agree with the SB's intended use. The Supermoto has 5"+ I think.

    -You can already get it stock with 5".

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    So, basically you'd have a 5-spot with bearings, a polished rear, and ano front end!
    And sexy welds.

    I'd say that despite it's long travel option the SB is much more XC-oriented than a 5-Spot. A better comparison would be the Supermoto.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by abomb
    Glad to see ya like it so much.. and we believe ya when you say your gonna keep it for a while...[You should it's a great bike..as were all the others] BUT what are ya gonna do when the new SB comes out for 05????
    I still think we should have that pool...
    box 1 will it make it past spring?
    box 2 will it make it through the summer?
    box 3 will it make it past the fall clearance?
    box 4 will it make it though the winter's new linup?

    The winner has to pick the specific month (week?), and you have to pick the replacement bike.



    Just yoikin ya Jaybo, apart from the 5*'s initial performance, it has a particular ability to grow one's appreciation as one becomes more familliar with the bike. In other words, if you think you like it now...just wait a couple of months! (actually the Burner, XCE and RFX all share that trait)

    Cheers!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  20. #20
    Daniel the Dog
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    I am sure you're right....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I still think we should have that pool...
    box 1 will it make it past spring?
    box 2 will it make it through the summer?
    box 3 will it make it past the fall clearance?
    box 4 will it make it though the winter's new linup?

    The winner has to pick the specific month (week?), and you have to pick the replacement bike.



    Just yoikin ya Jaybo, apart from the 5*'s initial performance, it has a particular ability to grow one's appreciation as one becomes more familliar with the bike. In other words, if you think you like it now...just wait a couple of months! (actually the Burner, XCE and RFX all share that trait)

    Cheers!
    I can take some ribbin'. I rib other enough on here. Anyway, I'm not hung up on having the best bike on the market. I just found each of the bikes I owned had something that bugged me: single-pivot hop, too small, air shock, cheap pivots, etc. The Spot is the first bike I have had that really doesn't have something that bugs me. However, all that said, Ventana with a 4-bar linkage would be very intriguing. I'm sorry, but Turner cannot hold a candle to the quality of a Ventana. That said, I am liking the idea of plain old bushings in the wet weather with the zeek pivots. Kinda cool.

    I'm happy. I have to ride this bike for at least a couple years now. Oh, the torture of having to ride a Turner. Laugh. I got a tick on the back of my leg the other day while riding a Turner. Oh, the joy of mountain biking. If I had to choose between sex and mountain biking, would have a tough choice.

    Jaybo

  21. #21
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    I'll agree w/ you about Ventana...

    Beautiful bikes. I think asthetically Turners are closer to Santa Cruz than Ventana. Light years ahead of my old Trek Fuel though. Functionally however I think they're about as good as it gets. Not the prettiest bikes out there, but they work extemely well.

    Dave

  22. #22
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    turner vs switchblade

    Jaybo, I remember vaguely that you said the switchblade felt squatty on climbs. Does this apply to the 5spot?

    thanks,

    -Sp

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I took my first ride on my new Turner 5 Spot. Nice ride. It was the smoothest cross country bike I have ever ridden due to the wonderful Romic shock. The bike is very stable, yet has some trouble in real tight woods situations. Oh, well, no bike does it all.

    I have a 120mm Marathon S on the bike. The bike climbs very well with the fork clamped down by the ECC. However, in 120 mode it did feel a touch slack on climbs.

    The thing that strikes me about this bike is the quietness of ride. Part of that is I don't have the chatter of the Fox Vanilla on climbs. Nice.

    I have not had a chance to really let this bike go bonkers because I rode in the tight woods today on some very rocky trails. Tomorrow I'm going to let this bike rock on some downhill type descents. That is going to be cool.

    A nice bike. Great purchase. This bike is a jack of all trades. However, I would be a bit bummed if I did not have ECC because I climb so much and it doesn't exactly put you in perfect climbing position with the fork in full travel. Overall, a great bike.

    Jaybo

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinglePivot
    Jaybo, I remember vaguely that you said the switchblade felt squatty on climbs. Does this apply to the 5spot?

    thanks,

    -Sp
    I have heard this before, and gotta say I dont know what ppl are talking about, my old 01 SB 5.7" climbed better than my specialized fsr, even after i put the z1 on it, the talas/propedal climbs amazingly [is that a word!] the "squating" thing..I have no idea..the bike has been great in every aspect, can someone help me understand what this is?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I still think we should have that pool...
    box 1 will it make it past spring?
    box 2 will it make it through the summer?
    box 3 will it make it past the fall clearance?
    box 4 will it make it though the winter's new linup?

    The winner has to pick the specific month (week?), and you have to pick the replacement bike.



    Just yoikin ya Jaybo, apart from the 5*'s initial performance, it has a particular ability to grow one's appreciation as one becomes more familliar with the bike. In other words, if you think you like it now...just wait a couple of months! (actually the Burner, XCE and RFX all share that trait)

    Cheers!
    I'm voting for the X5 as his next bike Can't say when, though but at least not for a couple of months. How lucky we are to have the experience of one who rides so many frames and forks to give us little tidbits of info and comparisons

    By the way, you're so right Bikezilla when you say, "... it has a particular ability to grow one's appreciation as one becomes more familliar with the bike." I'm going on a year now with the XCE and something new always impresses me.

    Hey Jaybo, i hope you don't take offense. I find your insights helpful and interesting

  25. #25
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,526

    No offense taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpicha
    I'm voting for the X5 as his next bike Can't say when, though but at least not for a couple of months. How lucky we are to have the experience of one who rides so many frames and forks to give us little tidbits of info and comparisons

    By the way, you're so right Bikezilla when you say, "... it has a particular ability to grow one's appreciation as one becomes more familliar with the bike." I'm going on a year now with the XCE and something new always impresses me.

    Hey Jaybo, i hope you don't take offense. I find your insights helpful and interesting
    I must admit, I'm a hack. I'm a fairly so so rider who enjoys the sport and sharing my opinion. Nonetheless, I have ridden a lot of bikes. Some I have owned and others people have allowed me to trade bikes for a ride or 3. I LOVE THE SPOT! It is perfect. I like to be above the bars a lot when I'm hankering down and climbing. I'm not sure I would not like an XCE with the shorter travel for climbing and cruising through the trees. This bike is a keeper. I would not touch a X5 because it doesn't have a Horst link.

    Take care,

    Jaybo

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