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  1. #1
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    Annoyed by Burner at Supergo for $949

    I just saw the post and checked out the Supergo site and cannot believe that Turner is dumping Burners through Supergo for $949. I know that they changed the shock, but to be frank, it pisses me off that 3 months after I buy a bike that they turn around and dump them for $400 less than what I paid. I have to wonder if this is the beginning of the end, i.e. Turner will sell their bikes for a premium through dealers, but then dump extra stock through Supergo for a big discount. What is next, 5 spots with a Vanilla Pro-pedal for $1300 at Supergo? Is Turner going to support the dealers that we like to use by making the same deal available to them?

  2. #2
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    Supergo does not respond to e-mails, at least the 3 I sent them 2 months ago when buying a cheap road frame for my wife didn't get responded to. They do answer the phone though.

  3. #3
    Daniel the Dog
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    I can imagine you are.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    I just saw the post and checked out the Supergo site and cannot believe that Turner is dumping Burners through Supergo for $949. I know that they changed the shock, but to be frank, it pisses me off that 3 months after I buy a bike that they turn around and dump them for $400 less than what I paid. I have to wonder if this is the beginning of the end, i.e. Turner will sell their bikes for a premium through dealers, but then dump extra stock through Supergo for a big discount. What is next, 5 spots with a Vanilla Pro-pedal for $1300 at Supergo? Is Turner going to support the dealers that we like to use by making the same deal available to them?

    I would be annoyed if I just spend $1,400 on a frame and it is now $950. That would suck! However, you did get the propedal shock and Larry's excellent service. That alone, makes the sting a bit better. Supergo is not known for great service.

    I think Turner may be risking losing some brand by selling their bikes at a bike superstore for so cheap. The reason people spend such large amounts of dough on high-end bikes is due to name recognition, quality, and exclusivity. Along with other reasons. Selling bikes this way may hurt them. Nonetheless, they want to move bikes quick to turn inventory into cash--simple accounting.

    No worries,

    Jaybo

  4. #4
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    ... next, 5 spots with a Vanilla Pro-pedal for $1300 at Supergo?

    Now we're talking!!!

    My dealer is trying to order me a Maverick today (which turns out to be a PITA), and I will call him and cancel it if you can broker THAT deal for SuperGo!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I would be annoyed if I just spend $1,400 on a frame and it is now $950. That would suck! However, you did get the propedal shock and Larry's excellent service. That alone, makes the sting a bit better. Supergo is not known for great service.

    I think Turner may be risking losing some brand by selling their bikes at a bike superstore for so cheap. The reason people spend such large amounts of dough on high-end bikes is due to name recognition, quality, and exclusivity. Along with other reasons. Selling bikes this way may hurt them. Nonetheless, they want to move bikes quick to turn inventory into cash--simple accounting.

    No worries,

    Jaybo
    You are exactly correct. I wouldn't have traded Larry's service for anything. That said, if the same (or similar deal i.e. $1050) had been available through Larry, I would have have saved $300 and skipped the pro-pedal (this is a 4" travel bike).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    Now we're talking!!!

    My dealer is trying to order me a Maverick today (which turns out to be a PITA), and I will call him and cancel it if you can broker THAT deal for SuperGo!
    That is a super deal on a Burner!

    But, I just talked to TJ at Maverick today, and the second batch of 04s (100 in total) is coming in right now.

    The 04 Mavericks are meant to be stronger and lighter than the 01s-03s, with sweet two-pass welds. And I think PT has some crazy stuff under development that will be retrofittable to this years frames.

    It's not really a pain to order from those guys. You should call them yourself!
    Last edited by Count Zero; 03-11-2004 at 04:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero

    ... I just talked to TJ at Maverick today, and the second batch of 04s (100 in total) is coming in right now.

    The 04s Mavericks are meant to be stronger and lighter than the 01s-03s, with sweet two-pass welds. And I think PT has some crazy stuff under development that will be retrofittable to this years frames.

    It's not really a pain to order from those guys. You should call them yourself!
    Well, there's exciting news on several levels in there, and I'm not even sorry we hijacked Turner's forum. I hope there's a black ano XL in there. I've got a Manitou 1 fork all ready for it...

  8. #8
    ... I guess you won't be
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    you guys must realize, you don't need any pro-pedal or ped/platform shock tech on any turner. They ride just fine w/ regular shocks/air shocks......thats the magic.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve3
    supergo isn't one of the companies that has coupons, right? Like Performance coupons?
    there was a 20% coupon late february, and 10% back in october

  10. #10
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    Upset I hear you.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    it pisses me off that 3 months after I buy a bike that they turn around and dump them for $400 less than what I paid.

    Yep. I hear you there. I'm more than a bit annoyed myself. One of the reasons I was willing to pay so much for a frame in the first place, is that the re-sale value was fairly high. That was a big factor in my decision to buy a new XCE. Once Turner started blowing out XCE's at Jenson and Supergo, the price on used frames dropped to about half what it was before the blowout. I'm angry enough about it, that it's unlikely that I will ever buy another new Turner frame. Except of course, during their annual blowout sale.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I would be annoyed if I just spend $1,400 on a frame and it is now $950. That would suck! However, you did get the propedal shock and Larry's excellent service. That alone, makes the sting a bit better. Supergo is not known for great service.

    I think Turner may be risking losing some brand by selling their bikes at a bike superstore for so cheap. The reason people spend such large amounts of dough on high-end bikes is due to name recognition, quality, and exclusivity. Along with other reasons. Selling bikes this way may hurt them. Nonetheless, they want to move bikes quick to turn inventory into cash--simple accounting.

    No worries,

    Jaybo
    They are in business to sell bikes. The same strategy worked for them when they sold their XCEs at a discount. They are now selling a LOT of 5 Spots. More people got to actually ride a Turner when the XCE prices dropped. Their reputation for building one of the best trailbikes around, was confirmed by more people. I'm sure their sales are way up compared to before. If they keep the quality leval the same, then their reputation will get better. I'd be upset if I could have saved some cash on frame. It just goes to show how much of a markup there is on frames and shocks. If someone thinks that by keeping prices artificially inflated to keep an air of "exclusiveness or quality", is a good thing, I'm thinking why don't you just tip your LBS a few hundred dollars and let the rest of us save some cash on a great frame.

  12. #12
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    I empathize with you

    It is definitely people like you (who pay full price for a frame with the assumption that it will retain much of its value) and smaller shops (who are not privvy to Turner's blowouts) that come up on the short end of the stick. I can certainly understand either group becoming disenchanted with Turner for these reasons.

    I don't really have any room to talk though, as I took advantage of last year's XCE pricing to pick up one for both myself and my wife. I wouldn't buy another brand of suspension bike now (for 26" wheels at least), but I don't know if originally I would have bought a Turner or not without the blowout pricing.

    Still, I have to call B.S. on Turner if they are saying they are only doing this to get rid of the non-ProPedal shocks. Why would they feel the need to take a $450 (or whatever that translates into wholesale) hit for the sake of some shocks that couldn't have cost them more than a couple hundred dollars each? I'm sure there are more efficient avenues for them to liquidate the shocks without having to do so for the entire frame. Last year the XCE's were being retired, and it was supposedly old stock that they had to clear out; fair enough. But to knock a third off of the price of a current frame just because it has a slightly different shock? Doesn't sound right to me. Nonetheless it will mean more people on Turners and I am not going to say that is a bad thing in itself.

  13. #13
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jokermtb
    you guys must realize, you don't need any pro-pedal or ped/platform shock tech on any turner. They ride just fine w/ regular shocks/air shocks......thats the magic.
    Yeah right, the 5 Spot would be mushy if it didn't have a platform shock like the Romic-some of you Turner guys make me laugh with your brand loyalty. Turner builds durable and light bikes that perform well, but magic-LOL

  14. #14
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    Well look who's talkin'

    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Yeah right, the 5 Spot would be mushy if it didn't have a platform shock like the Romic-some of you Turner guys make me laugh with your brand loyalty. Turner builds durable and light bikes that perform well, but magic-LOL
    Well coming from an Ellsworth owner...I find it ironic for you speak poorly of consumer brand loyalty...but it's Friday so we'll let it slide

    Seriously, few people regarded the non-Romic XCEs (same as new Burner)as mushy. So I would think that "Mushy" is a relative standard. It was dammed good before platform shocks raised the bar, in fact, I can recall a few posts from people who have/do own both non-romic XCE and Romic 5 Spot, and were quite happy with both rides.

    Sooooo, what shock do you have on your magical Truth?
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 03-12-2004 at 10:25 AM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  15. #15
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Well coming from an Ellsworth owner...I find it ironic for you speak poorly of consumer brand loyalty...but it's Friday so we'll let it slide

    Seriously, few people regarded the non-Romic XCEs (same as new Burner)as mushy. So I would think that "Mushy" is a relative standard. It was dammed good before platform shocks raised the bar, in fact, I can recall a few posts from people who have/do own both non-romic XCE and Romic 5 Spot, and were quite happy with both rides.

    Sooooo, what shock do you have on your magical Truth?
    It was the irony that made me laugh when I read that comment about magic, considering all the talk about Ell. owners and their brand loyalty. Maybe mushy was too strong of a term-sorry, but IMO, it rides so well because of the Romic, just like my Truth. By the way, I don't consider you to be "one of those" Turner guys, but you have to admit that the brand loyalty thing is there and probably more so than Ell. owners. Anyway, I think Turners are great bikes and my Truth is not magical-well, maybe a little. hehehehehe

  16. #16
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    Zealots R Us

    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    It was the irony that made me laugh when I read that comment about magic, considering all the talk about Ell. owners and their brand loyalty. Maybe mushy was too strong of a term-sorry, but IMO, it rides so well because of the Romic, just like my Truth. By the way, I don't consider you to be "one of those" Turner guys, but you have to admit that the brand loyalty thing is there and probably more so than Ell. owners. Anyway, I think Turners are great bikes and my Truth is not magical-well, maybe a little. hehehehehe
    Guilty as charged.

    I LOVE my bike. I'd be the first to proclaim it to be magical.(and I have done so in the past) As droolworthy as the Truth is, I sure hope you feel the same.

    My point is the sus design (on both) is so good, platform shocks are just icing on the cake. I've rode my bike with the "Bob" knob backed all the way out, and while it responds to my vertical body movements, the shock barely moves from hard pedaling (while seated) and can't be felt. I didn't notice much standing either but I don't stand much.

    It's no XC racer or hardtail to be sure, but that's exactly why I chose the bike. And now that I've had the shock big-boy-valved, 3-clicks in and it's a whole different ride, 6 clicks and I can stand and sprint as sloppy as I can and only notice my semi-locked fork. It's all gravy baby, giblet gravy. It's amazingly convienent to fine tune the ride for a particular day's terrain by just reaching down and making a slight twist.

    Do Turner owners tend to display more brand loyalty than other bike owners?...oh hell yes. It makes one wonder dosen't it?
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  17. #17
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    I've been talking to Larry about it and I feel horrible that I'm trying to buy one from Supergo when he spends time answering my questions. Supergo didn't even think the bike came with a shock when i first called them because the description they were given says "frame only". That was good for a short laugh.[/QUOTE]
    If you feel so horrible, why don't do you buy from him? Or least, give him the chance to come close to matching their price since he's spent some time with you. Granted, I bought my XCE from Supergo last year in the "blowout" only b/c no one had a 15" frame for me but I definitely would have gone through Larry or Charles had they one in stock in my size.

  18. #18
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    Just got mine yesterday

    Got my large black Burner from Supergo yesterday. Quality is as high as everyone here has said and I can't wait to build it up! I relied a great deal on this forum during my decision making process so thanks to everyone. IMO it was just too difficult to buy a Burner from a dealer, at least around here, because no one actually has one in stock and built up. I got two offers from different people to test ride medium Burners but both entailed significant inconvenience (long drives). I eventually rode a medium 5 spot and decided on the large size Burner. Other posters are on the right track: If Turner can get more bikes into peoples hands (and maintain quality) that will generate interest in the bike, which in turn will lead to more demand, which will lead to more dealers carrying them. Before ordering I called Supergo and Turner to verify that what I was seeing was true. The person at Supergo, as others have noted, had no clue what I was talking about. I then called Turner and got the scoop. FWIW -From what I understood (and I may be wrong) Supergo had the shocks and approached Turner about using them in a run of Burners. "Buy one. You won't regret it" were the words he used. And if the bike rides as good as it looks, I won't.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve3
    Duh, it's $450 difference and Larry is ok about it. he can't touch those prices, but I left it open that if i miss out, I WILL buy from him. he's already made a fair deal with me.

    And the $450 difference would make the difference if I could buy a bike or not buy one at all. Not everyone has enough money to live on like yourself. I've been living on pennies for the last two months while trying to save for a Burner and I'm barely short to even buy from Supergo because I decided to do such things as: eat, pay my tuition in full, buy books. You know, luxury items.
    LOL-I don't have that kind of money either and $450 would kill that deal for me,also. But, if they could have come in within a $100 or so, I probably could have done that. And I've already been where you're at and don't want to do it again so, yes, I can understand that even $100 would break the deal for you. But, don't go and assume that I'm rollin' in the dough. I've got 4 children to consider and my bike purchases come at my own expense of having to sell some other things from another hobby that I had before I started biking and before I started staying home to raise the kids. If I didn't have that to fall on, and the lower Supergo prices, I wouldn't be riding a Turner!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    Well, there's exciting news on several levels in there, and I'm not even sorry we hijacked Turner's forum. I hope there's a black ano XL in there. I've got a Manitou 1 fork all ready for it...

    Your wish has been granted EBasil. We have an XL Black Anodized frame in stock, but I would recommend your dealer call ASAP and lay claim to it. We only build a few hundred frames each year and when they are gone, they are gone.

    Get that Manitou 1 fork ready!!!!!!!!

    later,

    Steven, Marketing Guy
    Maverick American

  21. #21
    Daniel the Dog
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    Good points, but......

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro
    They are in business to sell bikes. The same strategy worked for them when they sold their XCEs at a discount. They are now selling a LOT of 5 Spots. More people got to actually ride a Turner when the XCE prices dropped. Their reputation for building one of the best trailbikes around, was confirmed by more people. I'm sure their sales are way up compared to before. If they keep the quality leval the same, then their reputation will get better. I'd be upset if I could have saved some cash on frame. It just goes to show how much of a markup there is on frames and shocks. If someone thinks that by keeping prices artificially inflated to keep an air of "exclusiveness or quality", is a good thing, I'm thinking why don't you just tip your LBS a few hundred dollars and let the rest of us save some cash on a great frame.
    Turner would probably go out of business if they sold Burners for less then 1k on a regular basis, so they air of "exclusive quality" is more an air of self-preservation. Make sense?

    Building brand is everything in custom products. You have to communicate to the public that your product is worth a lot because you get a lot--at least in high-end products. What if Acura started selling 20k cars. How would that impact their public perception? It would hurt Acura even if they made some dough on it. Same thing in bikes.

    My opinion is worth a pop assuming you have a $1.20.

    Jaybo

  22. #22
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    Burner's

    I think Turner could have gone about this much differently. I think most shop owners would be thrilled to offer a Burner frame for $950. Why didn't Turner allow their dealers to purchase these frames at a discounted price and allow dealers to offer them to consumers. It would have allowed them to unload the frames and stay out of the superstore like Supergo. Plus, as consumers we would still have the great customer service of the Turner dealerships like Larry at mountain high. Isn't customer service part of the reason that we all buy high end botique bikes?

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