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  1. #1
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    8" Rotor on 5-Spot

    Ok, how many of yall run an 8" on your front?

    I just picked up one, and an adapter for my XTR caliper...however,

    I hear maybe there are problems running 8" on Fox forks??? I have a '04 Talas fRL....am I going to kill my fork, or myself with this 8" rotor?

    Any info would be helpful, thanks.

  2. #2
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    Fox does not "allow" 8" rotors on its forks. Not compatible with the warranty. Too much torque on the tabs or something. Some bike companies spec 8" rotors on their Fox forks anyway (KHS). Whatever.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  3. #3
    eat my pantaloons
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    I hear some folks are doing it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lambone
    Ok, how many of yall run an 8" on your front?

    I just picked up one, and an adapter for my XTR caliper...however,

    I hear maybe there are problems running 8" on Fox forks??? I have a '04 Talas fRL....am I going to kill my fork, or myself with this 8" rotor?

    Any info would be helpful, thanks.

    I was going to, but ended up switching to a Marz Z.1FR QR20 and running an 8" rotor on that. The Fox had too much fore-aft flex and I just felt that adding an 8" rotor would twist things too much.

  4. #4
    singletrack lush
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    New question here. 6" vs 8"

    I never tried an 8" rotor, is it really that much difference bet. 6" and 8" in terms of stopping power? I think 6" is plenty enough for me, they stop me on a dime (Hayes) and Im 220lbs. do you relly feel the diffrence bet 6 and 8?

  5. #5
    roots, rocks, rhythm
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    Quote Originally Posted by marzz
    I never tried an 8" rotor, is it really that much difference bet. 6" and 8" in terms of stopping power? I think 6" is plenty enough for me, they stop me on a dime (Hayes) and Im 220lbs. do you relly feel the diffrence bet 6 and 8?
    The answer is yes you do feel the difference between 6 and the 8.
    I have both (one bike has 6 and 6 the other has 8 in the front and 6) and I am 235#.
    You notice the difference when you do a long down hill section. It has a bit more stopping power with a bit more control for the front. More surface area to stop on. ( this is my unscientific explaination.)
    Also in reading the 8" is better in theory for not getting as hot as the 6" on long down hills because of the disc being bigger.
    However the 8" weight more.

    I will add however the difference between 8 and 6 is not significate enough if you are worried about weight and do mostly XC riding.

    Kevin

  6. #6
    Lay off the Levers
    Reputation: Bikezilla's Avatar
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    I also have the QR20 8" XTR setup...

    Quote Originally Posted by erol
    I was going to, but ended up switching to a Marz Z.1FR QR20 and running an 8" rotor on that. The Fox had too much fore-aft flex and I just felt that adding an 8" rotor would twist things too much.
    It works well for me. I'm ~220 lbs. I don't have any comparison info however.

    Right here:


    The other side:
    Last edited by Bikezilla; 04-28-2004 at 08:18 AM.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  7. #7
    eat my pantaloons
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    depends....

    Quote Originally Posted by marzz
    I never tried an 8" rotor, is it really that much difference bet. 6" and 8" in terms of stopping power? I think 6" is plenty enough for me, they stop me on a dime (Hayes) and Im 220lbs. do you relly feel the diffrence bet 6 and 8?

    If you ride steep trails or do long downhills an 8" rotor can make a big difference in how fast you can go while remaining in control. If your trails aren't that steep or the downhills are short you probably won't notice that much.

  8. #8
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
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    I have to interject that it depends as much on brake setup (including brand, bleed quality, and pad material) as on rotor size. My 6" Juicys are as powerful and fade resistant as any of the brakes I demoed on our trip, and much more powerful than some of them were. The closest rival was an 8" Hayes Mags front and back. That was close in power (my brakes are 1-finger, all the time, and the Hayes were 1-2 finger depending on the imminence of my death), and offered good cooling/fade resistance. I also demoed some Hope Minis which were horrible in terms of power (firm levers so I doubt it needed a bleed) and some Hayes Carbon 9s which offered good power but lousy lever feel. I also tried Pete's bike with Mono Minis (8" front, 6" rear) which were quite nice, but not "wow".

    I have 6" and 7" rotors for my Avid Mechs too, and the 7" is noticeably more powerful and more fade resistent, but I find harder to modulate easily. I went back to 6" as a result since I didn't need the cooling.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  9. #9
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I have 6" and 7" rotors for my Avid Mechs too, and the 7" is noticeably more powerful and more fade resistent, but I find harder to modulate easily. I went back to 6" as a result since I didn't need the cooling.
    Is the 7" Mech more/same/less powerful than your 6" Juicy's?

  10. #10
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    I would not recommend...

    ...running 8" rotors on the Fox. I done it on both my Talas and Vanilla and it scares me. I did have the caliper-side tabs fail but I can't say it was solely due to the brakes. I changed caliper halves on my M4s to run a 185 instead of 205. Been happy ever since.

    Also, Zoke does not recommend 8" rotors on their non-QR20 forks like the Z1SL although the techs tell me they all do it. I've have very limited experience on Juicy's so can't make a good power/feel comparo other than to say my M4s (non-Mono) rule the day...until proven otherwise.

    Buddy has the 7" Avid mechs on his new K'Monkey. Great brakes. Although not the modulation of a good hydro. Power they have (to quote Yoda).

    Somewhat regretting selling off my Z1QR20. Really interested in getting my paws on the Nixon when available to team up with my custom Romic and 6" plates.

    Sean
    Professional Amateur. Disagree? Submit your grievances here.

  11. #11
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    Is the 7" Mech more/same/less powerful than your 6" Juicy's?
    I took the 7" off so long ago, I would have a hard time saying exactly how they stack up, but my impression is that the 6" Juicy is more powerful than a 6" Mech with the speed dial on the lever driving the Mech turned all the way out (least leverage). If you were to crank the speed dial in, or change to a 7" rotor, that would probably be similar to the power of the Juicy, but then the Juicy feels a lot better a the lever. Most of the difference will be due to setup, pads, bedding in, and such though...
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  12. #12
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    I guess 7" rotors are ok though?

    Tscheezy, you said fox does not "allow" 8 inch rotors on their forks but I assume 7" rotors are ok.

    My 6" avid mechanicals are great for xc and trail riding but yesterday's very steep twisty rocky descents could have done with something better. I'm trying to lay off using my rear brakes too, but the 6" avids on the front were really not up to it at some points yesterday and it felt like I was getting brake fade.

    Everything you've said about Juicys sounds good. I'm a crap mechanic though, so the mechanicals are a big advantage there.

    Cheers, Duncan

  13. #13
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Fade is a cooling issue. It comes down to pad material and rotor size (heat sink size). The pad needs to be able to keep generating friction at high temperatures, and the rotor needs to be able to conduct that heat away. Going to Juicys should not help in the fade issue per se since they use the same rotor size (at least I run 6" all around) and use the same pads. They do use wavy rotors which are supposed to cool better, but that may be marketing. The odd part is that I have noticed brake fade on my Avid mechs here at home on our longest downhill (which is pretty modest by real-world standards) while I could not get the Juicy's to fade on anything we rode on our trip including coming down the Portal Trail, Top Of The World, and Moab Rim which are all pretty long, very steep, and unrelenting descents. It makes no sense from a physics standpoint that I can tell, but I really feel the Juicys are very resistant to fade. On the other hand, I still really love the Mechs for their simplicity and loyal-to-the-last reliability. Great brakes.

    Anyway, the 7" rotor does make a noticeable difference. The power goes up a bit (not huge), but the fade resistance also improves since there is more mass to absorb the heat and more surface area to dump it off to the atmosphere. On that long local downhill I mentioned above, the 6" rotor would cause fade but the 7" would not. Does that mean the 7" would never fade? Of course not, but it would take more to get it to do it. I was not thrilled about the loss of modulation with the 7" rotors (more on/off feeling) and keeping them true is a tad harder, but those are minor issues compared to squeezing the lever to the bar at the end of a long long descent. It is a relatively cheap experiment compared to the Juicys too.

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  14. #14
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    Cheers. When will you get your own website?

    Hey thanks very much for your advice Tscheezy. I'm always impressed at how much useful detail you and some of the other guys go into on this forum. Turner Bikes should at least give you some kind of big juicy discount on your next bike.

    Cheers, Duncan

  15. #15
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan
    Tscheezy, you said fox does not "allow" 8 inch rotors on their forks but I assume 7" rotors are ok.
    It's for legal reasons (8"), but yes they don't have a policy against 7" rotors.
    I know quite a few people who run 8" rotors on a variety of different manufacturer forks (including Fox) with no problems. I even know someone who rides an 8" Avid on the front of both his XCE and his 5 Spot - both on Vanilla's.
    Last edited by Roy; 04-30-2004 at 07:57 AM.

  16. #16
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    I put my 8" on the other day.

    Went on a ride after work yesterday, after about a 7 mile downhill with fairly even braking with both back and front. The front caliper was MUCH "cooler" then the back one(6" rotor). The back caliper was almost too hot to touch, while the front was barely warm.

    I don't notice much of a differewnce in power or modulation, although my ride doesn't really require me to brake very hard, more just to keep momentum from building to moc speeds.

    I did fly off a small jump wrong and landed headed straight for a tree. Had about 6 ft to stop, no problems.

    The thought of my fork breaking is kinda scary though, so I may downsize to 7" just for piece of mind.

    The Spot is so much damn fun it's redicoulus!

  17. #17
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    Do you need a special hub to work with the Z1 FR Q20? I have a King ISO hub and am considering swaping my Talas for the Z1.

    But if I had to swap my hub too then I'd probly hold off.

  18. #18
    Stand back
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    yup

    Quote Originally Posted by Lambone
    Do you need a special hub to work with the Z1 FR Q20? I have a King ISO hub and am considering swaping my Talas for the Z1.

    But if I had to swap my hub too then I'd probly hold off.
    And there's not a huge choice of wheels out there w/ 20mm hubs, to switch a bit tougher.

  19. #19
    Lay off the Levers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambone
    Do you need a special hub to work with the Z1 FR Q20? I have a King ISO hub and am considering swaping my Talas for the Z1.
    But if I had to swap my hub too then I'd probly hold off.
    Looking at the CK website it looks like they have a throug-axle specific hub.
    I have Mavic XMax-XL wheels and they come with both skewers and a through-axel parts. On this kit it is a simple tool-less swap. I though I saw something similar on the CK hubs but I guess not. If you do end up getting new hubs, I recommend you pass on the XmaxXLs... I am rather dissapointed with them.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    I though I saw something similar on the CK hubs but I guess not.
    You can not convert King's Iso Disc Hub to a 20mm. You can however convert a 20mm to 24mm to allow use on a Maverick fork, and you can convert the Classic Hub to Iso's by simply buying new shells and axels, ~$100 in parts + labor.
    Last edited by CrashTheDOG; 04-30-2004 at 12:08 PM.

  21. #21
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambone
    I put my 8" on the other day.

    The thought of my fork breaking is kinda scary though, so I may downsize to 7" just for piece of mind.
    FYI, the concern is centered around the quick releases tearing out of the dropouts due to the potential extra torque an 8" rotor may allow, not the fork breaking. As far as I know there is no actual evidence that supports this theory but Fox is taking the conservative route.
    The qr yanking out of the drop outs actually occurred to a guy who was running 6" rotors but he had filed off his lawyer tabs.

  22. #22
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    I highly reco the Hope Bulb...

    ...if you are starting from scratch with a new 20mm thru axle fork/wheel build. On of the few hubs that are readily available and convertible from traditional QR to 20mm. Not tool-less like the Mavics, but not proprietary either. Just takes to 5mm allen keys to convert and you can run whichever rims, spokes you prefer.

    Sun Ringle might also include a convertible front hub on their trail or FR factory wheelsets.

    Sean
    Professional Amateur. Disagree? Submit your grievances here.

  23. #23
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    What makes you disapointed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikezilla
    Looking at the CK website it looks like they have a throug-axle specific hub.
    I have Mavic XMax-XL wheels and they come with both skewers and a through-axel parts. On this kit it is a simple tool-less swap. I though I saw something similar on the CK hubs but I guess not. If you do end up getting new hubs, I recommend you pass on the XmaxXLs... I am rather dissapointed with them.
    I was wondering what you dislike about the XmaxXLs? I was thinking about getting a set but may think twice. Thoughts?

    Thanks.

  24. #24
    Lay off the Levers
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARider
    I was wondering what you dislike about the XmaxXLs? I was thinking about getting a set but may think twice. Thoughts?

    Thanks.
    Oh how I loath the Mavics? let me count the ways...okay to be fair, they ride great. Quite stiff. and I'm heavy and clumsy. Also I don't know if others have experienced what I have but here's my "spin" on things.

    Dislikes:
    1) custom alloy spokes: thick, stiff, easily damaged/bent/broken
    2) custom alloy spokes: expensive, available only through LBSs for $5 each
    3) custom alloy spokes: (see a trend here?) two different kinds, a)for front wheel & left rear, and b)rear drive side.
    4) custom alloy spoke nipples: notched rather than toothed...if you tag a spoke they can split in half. this requires a new spoke.
    5) my rear wheel pings like a data center. I've had it trued and retensioned twice. Once by Mavic. They say there's nothing wrong with it...uh huh... It must be the ringing in my ears.
    6) If I don't clamp the rear QR down waaaay tight the whee creaks and pops under rotational load. (Pedaling or braking)
    7) There is a LOOOOOONG throw between pawl engagement points. Ratcheting through technical sections requires something like 1/4 turn at the cranks...plan ahead! (Note I had a near-instant clutch hub before so maybe I'm spoiled)
    8) Mavic only does CS through LBSs. If there is a problem, you have to have your LBS to send it back and deal with them.

    Likes:
    1) They look great.
    2) They feel very stiff and solid
    3) They have great QRs
    4) The front comes with a QR and a 20mm Through axle and can be changed w/o a fuss. (Think two bikes or forks here)
    5) They come with a neat bearing adjuster tool that can be used while the wheel is on the bike. They also come with a spoke wrench. Both plastic but seem durable enough.
    6) They'er pretty light for Aggro-XC wheels
    7) They're a absolute cake walk to mount UST tires on and don't leak at all.
    8) They take 5 seconds to convert to tube on the trail. (for the times I rip the paper thin sidewalls on my grippy Vertical Pro USTs)

    In the end for $600 I expected these to be a slam dunk. They haven't been so for me.
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  25. #25
    The dark side is quicker
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    Cool-blue Rhythm 7inch on my Vanillas

    FWIW, I debated over 6-7-8" rotors on my Vanilla.
    Fox also told me not to run 8", so...I finally decided to go with the 7's.

    BUT, I also converted my XT front axle to a 10mm bolt on.
    Not quite as good as a 20mm, but I notice the front is much stiffer.


    Mike
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