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Thread: 5 Spot & 650b

  1. #1
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    5 Spot & 650b

    Anyone know if a 2010 5 Spot will accept a 650b rear? I searched and found one bit of text where someone stated running 2.3 650b's on a 2011 5 Spot. Thanks.

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    2.2 Racing Ralph 'will' fit, but barely. gravel pinging thru the yoke thruout the rides. I rode this set up including a 26 fork on front this time last year. Wore the paint/ano off both front and rear over the hundreds of miles. As 'fun' as the bike was with bigger wheels it was not fun listening to the rocks ticking off the frame/fork constantly and any mud at all and the thing was a grinder. The BB was way too tall for everything but straightline riding as well, handled like ****. We chopped a bike up and re -welded for better geometry but the tires were still hitting the frame/fork so in the end it was Burner time.

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    @keen, when I first read your opening question, in my mind, I was thinking you meant a 650b (Burner) rear triangle. Obviously you were talking tires but the rear triangle thing has me thinking....anyone out there try a "SPurner"???? (Note: I realize there's a whole host of issues mating different frames together, and it's probably easier and more productive to just demo a Burner, but keen's inquiry has this tinkering mind pondering.)

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    Throw a really tall tire in the rear to get similar results. If anything i'd do the front only though which has been done plenty of times.
    And I think 'Sporner' is better.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

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    Quote Originally Posted by trojan08 View Post
    @keen, when I first read your opening question, in my mind, I was thinking you meant a 650b (Burner) rear triangle. Obviously you were talking tires but the rear triangle thing has me thinking....anyone out there try a "SPurner"???? (Note: I realize there's a whole host of issues mating different frames together, and it's probably easier and more productive to just demo a Burner, but keen's inquiry has this tinkering mind pondering.)
    I read an article, sometime ago, where a company (?) had a rear triangle w/ modified dropouts (extended ?) that would allow for 650b tires. I just can't find the article again. Wouldn't mind having a Burner but it isn't in the budget right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stumblemumble View Post
    Throw a really tall tire in the rear to get similar results. If anything i'd do the front only though which has been done plenty of times.
    And I think 'Sporner' is better.
    I ran 650's front only & front and rear when they were like "650 what ?" The just run a tall 26" tire is a throw back against the use of 650's. Most tall 26" tires are wide aggressive balloon tires. I ran a rear kenda BG 2.5" tire and compared to the 27.5 x 2.3 Neo-moto the 2.5 was a wallowing slug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I read an article, sometime ago, where a company (?) had a rear triangle w/ modified dropouts (extended ?) that would allow for 650b tires. I just can't find the article again. Wouldn't mind having a Burner but it isn't in the budget right now.
    keen,

    I think you may be thinking about BANSHEE's 2013 Rune and Spitfire models. Interesting bikes...they have made some real improvements on their frames. But I'm still sold on my 5Spot and everything that Turner emboides. But I haven't rode a Banshee or the 27.5 format yet. I guess if you have the $$$ to have spare wheels and forks to swap out it could be fun...but I'm lazy too.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by jjkitt; 02-14-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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    It'd be nice to see if they could make a 650b specific rear for the 5 spot and call it the "Burnt" mod. Because the new wheel size burned your hide enough that you want it but you refuse to shell out cash for a full frame, fork, and new wheelset, plus any drivetrain adjustment you may feel necessary for the effective gearing change.
    Better yet, make it in Carbon as a first test for Turner and its eventual vendor. Of course adjust it for better geometry like a low bb and slacker HA. You could probably get pretty close to the ideal DW design with the spot links or a mix of Burner ones if needed to approach the ideal dw cg instant center relationship. Hey even the older 09-10 5.Spots had a steep HA, so low bb and slack ha may be easier to adjust for on them. Let's get around the current industry trend of a new "standard" every six months(rendering current standards obsolete-oh wait, that's the antonym of a standard), and offer a reto-fittable part to the mass of loyal consumers making an instant rider base! Oh and it will be lighter too.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I ran 650's front only & front and rear when they were like "650 what ?" The just run a tall 26" tire is a throw back against the use of 650's. Most tall 26" tires are wide aggressive balloon tires. I ran a rear kenda BG 2.5" tire and compared to the 27.5 x 2.3 Neo-moto the 2.5 was a wallowing slug.
    How did the Spot handle with a 650B/275 front wheel? What travel fork did you run with it? I would think it would be kick ars with a 140mm and 650B front since most folks use a 160mm for w/26 wheels. Just curious on your results. I've been thinking of doing the same with a closeout Flux....run the fork between 100 - 110 with a 650B front wheel.

  10. #10
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    It fits, I run mine that way. Search my user name
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    The BB was way too tall for everything but straightline riding as well, handled like ****.
    Wow, that's a bummer. I smoked many super-pro dirt roadies on my Quasi w/ 15" BB. It handled like the ****. Turning is turning, and you can do it wrong at any BB height .
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  12. #12
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    it would be counterproductive for turner to allow you to run a modified rear triangle on a 5spot when their goal is to sell the newest model.
    RIP Adam Yauch

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    But with the new model high price tag and in this economy it would definitely be a big seller!

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    5 Spot & 650b

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    it would be counterproductive for turner to allow you to run a modified rear triangle on a 5spot when their goal is to sell the newest model.
    I don't think this is the case. Turner has been very good over the years in making newer rear ends that work on older models available, as well as readily discussing what works for Frankenbikes. Dave was clear in prior posts and this one, a different rear triangle for the spot didn't work well, so they didn't go that route.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

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    I am sorry if I have not been clear in the past on the frankenTurner bikes with dw-link. They will not happen. I have talked to DW about this subject in a few different variations, and the wheel size change puts a compromising barrier to optimum anti-squat performance and if anyone knows anything about Dave Weagle, is that he is relentless in his engineering of the dw-link and it's specific traits. I know about other brands and their replaceable dropouts, but even when you look at the dropout you can tell the bike was not designed for 2 wheels sizes, the second option is nothing more than a bandaid to rescue a 26" wheel bike from being mothballed before it's tooling is amortized. Does it work? Yes of course, move wheel up and back and Voila 275 fits so therefore it 'works'. Does it work as well as an engineered for 275 rear suspension? No way. If anyone has ever compared different 'mini link' bikes to dw-link they will know that this system is the best blend of activity and resistance to pedaling movement. The reason for that is that DW has a specific target for the anti squat, just dropping in a different wheel size and all of it's changes would not work to his standards.

    Not offering a new rear has nothing to do with my forcing people to go out and buy a new bike, it has everything to do with maintaining the optimum performance that comes from engineering a system from the beginning for a specific wheel size.

    DT

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    How did the Spot handle with a 650B/275 front wheel? What travel fork did you run with it? I would think it would be kick ars with a 140mm and 650B front since most folks use a 160mm for w/26 wheels. Just curious on your results. I've been thinking of doing the same with a closeout Flux....run the fork between 100 - 110 with a 650B front wheel.
    I'm running mine with a 650B Flow EX, Nobby Nic 2.25, Revelation w 20mm Maxle, (I've heard only the 20mm lowers has 650B clearance), and travel reduced to 135mm. Tire barely clears lowers. You do get gravel pinging, but only at low speeds. I tried running with the Rev set at 150mm and the bb felt way too high and the steering was floppy. You have to remember that when you reduce travel, you also lose a proportional amt of sag, so you end up sitting a bit higher. That's why I reduced mine all the way to 135mm. Now feels awesome and I don't miss the 15mm of travel I lost. I don't go big though, just ~2ft drops and small jumps and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    I am sorry if I have not been clear in the past on the frankenTurner bikes with dw-link. They will not happen. I have talked to DW about this subject in a few different variations, and the wheel size change puts a compromising barrier to optimum anti-squat performance and if anyone knows anything about Dave Weagle, is that he is relentless in his engineering of the dw-link and it's specific traits. I know about other brands and their replaceable dropouts, but even when you look at the dropout you can tell the bike was not designed for 2 wheels sizes, the second option is nothing more than a bandaid to rescue a 26" wheel bike from being mothballed before it's tooling is amortized. Does it work? Yes of course, move wheel up and back and Voila 275 fits so therefore it 'works'. Does it work as well as an engineered for 275 rear suspension? No way. If anyone has ever compared different 'mini link' bikes to dw-link they will know that this system is the best blend of activity and resistance to pedaling movement. The reason for that is that DW has a specific target for the anti squat, just dropping in a different wheel size and all of it's changes would not work to his standards.

    Not offering a new rear has nothing to do with my forcing people to go out and buy a new bike, it has everything to do with maintaining the optimum performance that comes from engineering a system from the beginning for a specific wheel size.

    DT
    I don't care what _dw's target is, I care what my target is. Listen to your customers.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    I don't care what _dw's target is, I care what my target is. Listen to your customers.
    Actually, don't. If DT says he can't retro-fit a 5 spot to make it ride like a bike he wants, I believe him. He has a track record. Add to the fact that it is his business, he can do whatever he bloody hell wants.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    I am sorry if I have not been clear in the past on the frankenTurner bikes with dw-link. They will not happen. I have talked to DW about this subject in a few different variations, and the wheel size change puts a compromising barrier to optimum anti-squat performance and if anyone knows anything about Dave Weagle, is that he is relentless in his engineering of the dw-link and it's specific traits. I know about other brands and their replaceable dropouts, but even when you look at the dropout you can tell the bike was not designed for 2 wheels sizes, the second option is nothing more than a bandaid to rescue a 26" wheel bike from being mothballed before it's tooling is amortized. Does it work? Yes of course, move wheel up and back and Voila 275 fits so therefore it 'works'. Does it work as well as an engineered for 275 rear suspension? No way. If anyone has ever compared different 'mini link' bikes to dw-link they will know that this system is the best blend of activity and resistance to pedaling movement. The reason for that is that DW has a specific target for the anti squat, just dropping in a different wheel size and all of it's changes would not work to his standards.

    Not offering a new rear has nothing to do with my forcing people to go out and buy a new bike, it has everything to do with maintaining the optimum performance that comes from engineering a system from the beginning for a specific wheel size.

    DT

    Well, if you move the wheel up and back half an inch, the Anti-squat it's almost the same, the difference is around 1% or 2%, and that's something really really small. It's like using 2.1 Vs 2.5 tires or using a 160mm fork instead of a 140mm one. Anyway, I think that building a frame from scratch it's a better solution too.

    Tony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrock View Post
    Well, if you move the wheel up and back half an inch, the Anti-squat it's almost the same, the difference is around 1% or 2%, and that's something really really small. It's like using 2.1 Vs 2.5 tires or using a 160mm fork instead of a 140mm one. Anyway, I think that building a frame from scratch it's a better solution too.

    Tony.
    Just put a damn 650B front wheel on a Spot, no need for this Burner at all.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  21. #21
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    Rip frankenturner
    Last edited by freebiker; 03-13-2013 at 02:37 AM.

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    Maybe since we're all bent about the lack of options they could make a front triangle that is designed to allow different specific rear ends to fit from the get go. It may be a tad heavier but how sick would it be to make a modular frame. 160mm travel 26er, 140mm 650B, 120mm 29er! Maybe 2 rear ends, a couple shock eye locations, maybe a different rocker or two, use the 44 or 1.5 or ZS headtube and the twist adjustable headset by that company on Pricepoint! That would net a few riding options and happy uber Turner accessorizers haha!

  23. #23
    Hard funkinī Kraut
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    Sounds like too much confusing Options for Customers, Complication and Compromise in Performance to me?!?

    Blackmarket Roam will fit the Bill for all three(!) Wheelsizes plus two Travelsettings. Letīs see how itīs going on the Trails ...

    And by the Way: This is exactly the Reason why some Companies offer interchangeable Dropouts for 26 and 650B! Usually I donīt want to make Contradictions to both Mr. Turner and Mr. Weagle, but as a Banshee V2 Spitfire-Rider I can say that Anti-Squat, Leverage-Ratio and so on gets the performing Results Vrock mentioned: Really not noticable at all! Except the Wheelsize itself and minor very small changes in Geometry!

    But I do, of course, understand that designing towards one Wheelsize only will give a bit less Compromise in Geometry and Suspension.

  24. #24
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    Ok play both sides of the argument very political. I think the customer knows what they want and will figure it out, you just mentioned they'd hav the options on the Roam!
    Anyway, its nothing Turner riders haven't already been doing for years. Ideally for a transformer bike the riding styles are probably closest between the 650b and 26ers and 160mm would be sweet on a Turner (a la Nomad) but with snappy sprinting and handling and not afraid to abuse it on today's hooped-out trails. Hell, even 150mm would be nice.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Usually I donīt want to make Contradictions to both Mr. Turner and Mr. Weagle,
    Why not? People slap anglesets and bigger forks on Spots all the time, _dw has been way wrong on his stance regarding coil shocks on the Firebird and the HD (Both work fantastic with 'em). Turner should be building with carbon, but is not.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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