1. ## 5 Questions

Please answer these questions so I can learn where you like your hands in relationship to the seat, and height in relationship to the frame size etc.

This is for a Cross Country bike, whatever you put the highest mileage on, please note what kinda bike it is though, XC race, XC trail, rough trail, light free ride. Please E mail the #'s to me at DT@turnerbikes.com

I need you to measure your seat height, center of BB to top of seat right up the centerline of seat tube and post. What is the seat height?

Next put the bike against a wall and make a mark where the top of the grip hits the wall,
and using a level across the seat put a mark on the wall where the top of the seat would be, then measuring from the floor to both points to get a difference between seat and grip tops.
How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top?

What is the length of your seat tube?

How tall are you?

What "size" frame do you ride?

Thank you very much.

David Turner

2. nevermind

i get it

3. email sent.

thanks DT.

4. ## Here you go

I need you to measure your seat height, center of BB to top of seat right up the centerline of seat tube and post. What is the seat height? 28 inches

Next put the bike against a wall and make a mark where the top of the grip hits the wall,
and using a level across the seat put a mark on the wall where the top of the seat would be, then measuring from the floor to both points to get a difference between seat and grip tops.
How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Dead even

What is the length of your seat tube? Seat tube is 17"

How tall are you? 5'9"

What "size" frame do you ride? Med spot

Thank you very much. Your welcome

David Turner

5. I will do this when i get home. Do you want us to post it here or PM it to you?

6. Hi hope this helps in your survey.

How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? = 0.5cm higher on the 5 Spot, 4cm Higher on the 6 Pack

What is the length of your seat tube? = 72.5 cm (5 Spot) 72cm (6 Pack)

How tall are you? = 5ft 9"

What "size" frame do you ride? Medium

7. Center of BB to Top of Seat 29 3/4"
Top of Grips 41 5/8"
Difference between the top of the seat and the top of the grips - zero +/- 1/8"
Large 5-Spot
6'0 Tall

8. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 29.5"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? -0.5" lower

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 19.5"

4. How tall are you? 6'0"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? 19.5" (Large) XCE

9. Damn, that's a lot of work.

5'11"

I ride mediums.

Seat height from BB 30.75"

Length of the seat tube is whatever comes on a medium pack!

Grips relative to seat-line -2.5" (grips lower than the seat)

Bike is a 6pack, with a 170mm 66 up front, this is the "XC" setting, but it's a very high end obviously. Of course when sagged, it will be different. If I set the bike up for DH riding, then my seat height changes to about 26.25 and the grips are about 1.75" above the seat.

10. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 26"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Grips 1.5" higher than saddle

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 15.5" (Burner)

4. How tall are you? 5'6"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? Small

11. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 30"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Basically even

3. What is the length of your seat tube? ~19.5"

4. How tall are you? 5'11"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? 19.5" (Large) 5-Spot and 6-Pack

12. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 30.5"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Grips .75" higher than saddle

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 22"

4. How tall are you? 6'3"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? XL 5 Spot

13. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 29.5"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? -0.25" (drop to grip)

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 19.5"

4. How tall are you? 5'10.5"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? 19.5" (Large) Burner

14. ## Hey everybody

DT requested that the numbers be emailed to him.

"Please E mail the #'s to me at DT@turnerbikes.com"

Edit: Just noticed that DT edited his post a few minutes ago, I assume to add his email address, so no offense to anyone who replied earlier.

15. Originally Posted by turnerbikes
Please answer these questions so I can learn where you like your hands in relationship to the seat, and height in relationship to the frame size etc.

I need you to measure your seat height, center of BB to top of seat right up the centerline of seat tube and post. What is the seat height?
31"

Next put the bike against a wall and make a mark where the top of the grip hits the wall,
and using a level across the seat put a mark on the wall where the top of the seat would be, then measuring from the floor to both points to get a difference between seat and grip tops.
How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top?
grips are 1" lower

What is the length of your seat tube?
I assume I'm measuring center of bb to very top of seat tube and not center of top tube - but in any case, you made it so once I give the size and model you'll know... 22"

How tall are you?
6'2" - but long legs and monkey arms - 35" inseam, 36" sleeve length

What "size" frame do you ride?
2005 XL 5-spot

Thank you very much. thank you - best bike I've ever owned!

David Turner
xxxxxxxxxx

16. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 30.5"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? grips 1 3/8" lower than seat (with sag gets me close to level seat and grips when riding)

3. What is the length of your seat tube? ~19.5"

4. How tall are you? 6'

5. What "size" frame do you ride? Large Flux

17. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 30.5"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Grips 2.5" lower

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 19.5"

4. How tall are you? 5'11"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? 19.5" Large 5-Spot

Not that any of us are actually emailing DT these measurements like he asked

18. What is your favorite color?
Black, no silver..... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

Numbers are in the mail DT. A synopsis of what Burner/Flux/Spot/Pack/... riders are doing would be interesting. Please share whatever you figure out.

19. Numbers emailed to DT

20. DT

I also think the results would be interesting by type of bike Flux/5-spot, etc, and also by 26er vs 29er rider.

I wonder if the 29er riders you queried turn out to be on average....taller, with higher seat heights.

21. Originally Posted by turnerbikes
Please answer these questions so I can learn where you like your hands in relationship to the seat, and height in relationship to the frame size etc.

This is for a Cross Country bike, whatever you put the highest mileage on, please note what kinda bike it is though, XC race, XC trail, rough trail, light free ride. Please E mail the #'s to me at DT@turnerbikes.com Bike is a Pack set-up for all trail conditions including light free-ride. Measurements taken with 5" RFX rockers

I need you to measure your seat height, center of BB to top of seat right up the centerline of seat tube and post. What is the seat height? 27.75"

Next put the bike against a wall and make a mark where the top of the grip hits the wall,
and using a level across the seat put a mark on the wall where the top of the seat would be, then measuring from the floor to both points to get a difference between seat and grip tops.
How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Bars - 43.5 Seat 41.25 = +2.25

What is the length of your seat tube? 16"

How tall are you? 5' 7"

What "size" frame do you ride? Small
Thank you very much.

David Turner
I will email tomorrow - no email setup on my laptop.

22. ## 5 spot

XC trail, rough trail all mtn bike, Typical Socal riding

What is the seat height? 30"

How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Level with Pike set at 130mm

What is the length of your seat tube? 19.5"

How tall are you? 6'

What "size" frame do you ride? Large 5 Spot

Thank you very much.

David Turner[/QUOTE]

23. I sent my info to DT,by e-mail...Its cool he thinks enough to ask for input from his customers/fellow riders...Very cool,indeed!

24. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 27 3/8"

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Grips 1/4" lower than saddle

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 17"

4. How tall are you? 5'9"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? Medium (5-Spot)

Thanks!

25. Oops, duplicated post...

26. So far it looks like Jayem and I are the only ones that have the grips significantly lower than the seat. You have ape arms too Jayem?

At 5'11" tall I guess I'm a little unusual because my reach is almost six and a half feet. And yeah, my knuckles get raw from all that dragging

27. As new measurements get added, that's more free data for DT's competitors.

28. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? even

What is the length of your seat tube? Seat tube is 17"?, Seatpost is 9.5 inches from seatpost collar to bottom of seat rails
How tall are you? 5'9"

What "size" frame do you ride? Med spot

Thank you very much. You're welcome

29. Originally Posted by Roy
As new measurements get added, that's more free data for DT's competitors.
In case they are watching, maybe we should throw them off and make them think we like long travel bikes that sit real high and have super steep head angles. Then they'd probably come up with some really goofy riding bike with an even goofier, psychobabble-esque name.

I'll e-mail my true measurements straight to DT to be on the safe side.

30. Originally Posted by .Danno.
So far it looks like Jayem and I are the only ones that have the grips significantly lower than the seat. You have ape arms too Jayem?

At 5'11" tall I guess I'm a little unusual because my reach is almost six and a half feet. And yeah, my knuckles get raw from all that dragging
I never thought so, but I'm suprised by the numbers. I got my 6-pack for "all around" riding. If I was only DHing on it, I'd probably have gotten a large, but I have a 100mm stem on it and I love the manueverability, the top tube is good for my size, and the wheelbase isn't too short or anything, so it doesn't get skittish.

I'm suprised at how low most people's seat height is, and I have a MONSTER fork on the front, so even though my grips are below, the huge fork makes the effect smaller, and if I was riding on a 5 or 6" fork, the grips would be even lower. I don't have the biggest inseam either, and my friend Enel who doesn't really have a much bigger inseam also runs his seat at a similer height. I don't over extend my knees or anything, and I KNOW when I set my seat height too high, so the numbers I gave were what works for me when my bike is set up for "XC".

I've always ridden "medium" frames, and never liked how 19" and larger bikes feel. Manueverability takes a huge hit when I go that big, and I have to run it with a real short stem usually, which gets my weight back futher and makes it climb even shittier..

I can't fathom how most people can climb with their seat heights that low relative to their grips, and while I know some people are small enough that their bike has to be like this, it suprises me how many big people have their bikes set like this. Maybe I'm proportioned differently, but I have a hard time imagining some of these people's proportions.

31. Originally Posted by Jayem
I never thought so, but I'm suprised by the numbers. I got my 6-pack for "all around" riding. If I was only DHing on it, I'd probably have gotten a large, but I have a 100mm stem on it and I love the manueverability, the top tube is good for my size, and the wheelbase isn't too short or anything, so it doesn't get skittish.

I'm suprised at how low most people's seat height is, and I have a MONSTER fork on the front, so even though my grips are below, the huge fork makes the effect smaller, and if I was riding on a 5 or 6" fork, the grips would be even lower. I don't have the biggest inseam either, and my friend Enel who doesn't really have a much bigger inseam also runs his seat at a similer height. I don't over extend my knees or anything, and I KNOW when I set my seat height too high, so the numbers I gave were what works for me when my bike is set up for "XC".

I've always ridden "medium" frames, and never liked how 19" and larger bikes feel. Manueverability takes a huge hit when I go that big, and I have to run it with a real short stem usually, which gets my weight back futher and makes it climb even shittier..

I can't fathom how most people can climb with their seat heights that low relative to their grips, and while I know some people are small enough that their bike has to be like this, it suprises me how many big people have their bikes set like this. Maybe I'm proportioned differently, but I have a hard time imagining some of these people's proportions.
I'm with you on not understanding how one could ride with the bars at or above seat level. That would kill my climbing ability as well as trying to get my weight on the front for fast cornering. Of course with my ape arms it's not really a fair comparison.

I just checked my 6 Pack and found I have the grips 1.5 inches below the seat and that's as high as I'd ever want them. It's a medium and I'm only running a 45mm stem. The fork is a Z150. I find the height of the bars on this bike makes climbing the really steep stuff very difficult because I'm literally lying on top of them, but that's the trade I'm willing to make for great decending, ease of bunny hopping, and jumping. Very fun ride, just spent 2 hours at the DJ's tonight.

I think somehow we are different - low bars & ETA. Guys like SSINGA have to get with the program and drop his bar about 5 inches and feel the luv of ETA Ahh, the good life.

32. 1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 79,7 cm
2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Grips 6 cm lower than saddle (greips 104 saddle 110)
3. What is the length of your seat tube? 19,7" declared...
4. How tall are you? 182 cm"
5. What "size" frame do you ride? Large(Flux '06)

send mail to DT too

33. I Hope all this Data is going to DT so he can make an 18" frameset which would be perfect for so many of the 5' 10 - 6' ers out there(the gap between the 17"-19.5" is too large) I found an old 1998 brochure which indicated an 18 " frame used to be made.

34. Originally Posted by dogvet
I Hope all this Data is going to DT so he can make an 18" frameset which would be perfect for so many of the 5' 10 - 6' ers out there(the gap between the 17"-19.5" is too large) I found an old 1998 brochure which indicated an 18 " frame used to be made.
Probably shouldn't speculate too much, but if there is a survey having to do with bar height vs. seat height I'm thinking there's some thought going into what the proper head tube length should be.

35. ## numbers

SH:30.25"
seat tube:19.5"
Grips 3/8" lower
72.5" tall
do everything large spot

m

36. Originally Posted by dogvet
I Hope all this Data is going to DT so he can make an 18" frameset which would be perfect for so many of the 5' 10 - 6' ers out there(the gap between the 17"-19.5" is too large) I found an old 1998 brochure which indicated an 18 " frame used to be made.
Wish DT would make a medium/large, that should fit me like a glove! Think Giant bought out a M/L size in their road bikes a couple of years back after previously having only S, M, & L.

37. Originally Posted by dogvet
I Hope all this Data is going to DT so he can make an 18" frameset which would be perfect for so many of the 5' 10 - 6' ers out there(the gap between the 17"-19.5" is too large) I found an old 1998 brochure which indicated an 18 " frame used to be made.
That's the difference between the spot and the pack.

I'd be riding a large spot if I rode a spot, but the medium pack is larger.

38. ## No numbers but...

Originally Posted by .Danno.
So far it looks like Jayem and I are the only ones that have the grips significantly lower than the seat. You have ape arms too Jayem?

At 5'11" tall I guess I'm a little unusual because my reach is almost six and a half feet. And yeah, my knuckles get raw from all that dragging

I'm the same way, long legs and kinda long arms means a lot of post, my seat is always higher than the bars by about 1.5-2". I'm 6'2" and probably at the top end of riders on the large frames, but the XL is just too big. I do run a 110mm stem and my post has one of those setback clamps so that stretches the reach out a bit. It works nice though, real nice. If my bikes weren't just a pile of parts right now I could get some numbers...

39. Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough
Probably shouldn't speculate too much, but if there is a survey having to do with bar height vs. seat height I'm thinking there's some thought going into what the proper head tube length should be.
I'd furthur speculate that is has something to do with the head tube length on the upcoming 29"er, since he also posed this question on the 29"er board.

29"ers have a front end that is inherently taller, due to the longer fork necessary for a given amount of travel. Most 29"ers run shorter headtubes to help compensate for this, but I imagine there is a downside to shortening the headtube too much (e.g. less room to weld large diameter top & down tubes).

40. Originally Posted by Jayem
That's the difference between the spot and the pack.

I'd be riding a large spot if I rode a spot, but the medium pack is larger.
Here's where I call BS on you. The slacker seat tube angle on the Pack/RFX means the bottom bracket is actually ~2/3" closer to the headtube than the top tube number would suggest, relative to the steeper seat tube on the Spot.

If you would be using the same saddle position relative to the bottom bracket on either bike, the Pack/RFX has a shorter cockpit. If you would be using a more rearward saddle position on the Pack, then the slacker seat tube angle just helps you accomplish this without having to rely as much on a set back post and/or slamming the saddle back on its rails. It doesn't make the bike larger anymore than either of those methods though.

41. Email sent with numbers from my fit by Andy Pruitt et al. at the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine.

73.5cm = seat height
4.5cm = seat fore/aft
54.5cm = stretch (saddle tip to HB center)
2cm = drop seat vs HB

Medium Spot set up for XC race / XC trail

42. ## not turner but may help

1. What is the seat height (Ctr of BB to top of saddle)? 27

2. How much higher or lower are the grips from the seat top? Grips 2" lower than saddle

3. What is the length of your seat tube? 16"

4. How tall are you? 5'8"

5. What "size" frame do you ride? 16" giant Trance

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