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  1. #1
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    29 Carbon, Dave?

    Man I am jonesing for a new bike; one that can race and shred. A carbon 29 could be just the ticket. When, Dave, when?
    The great use of life is to spend it for something that will outlast it.
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  2. #2
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    I second that. You know its on the way, too many Turner aficionados want one. Sultan carbon xc with 4" travel. And, the Flux 650. Win Win.

  3. #3
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    sign me up for the flux 650.

  4. #4
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    I've been saying for the longest time...if and when a XC Carbon Sultan becomes available I'm all in. I've been Turner-less for far too long now!! My RX29 is gone early next year and I've narrowed to the 429C, Ripley, and the RM Element RSL. I would pass on them all for the Turner even if I had to wait until mid-year.
    I actually tried to call Turner today to try and get some/any details but got VM when I tried

  5. #5
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    I would like to wait for the Turner offerings because I hate buyers remorse but definitely going with a larger wheel. It would be nice to be able to choose between the 2, 650/29, that would stack their xc models but one can hope.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by climr View Post
    sign me up for the flux 650.
    I'd hit that.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  7. #7
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    me too for a flux 650
    I hear a RUMOR that Sultan will be discontinued in 2013
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  8. #8
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    +1 on 100 mm carbon 29er. It would sweet. Carbon Camber is a good placeholder until then, but still eagerly awaiting a carbon "mini-Sultan".
    Whining is not a strategy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    +1 on 100 mm carbon 29er. It would sweet. Carbon Camber is a good placeholder until then, but still eagerly awaiting a carbon "mini-Sultan".
    Agreed-- I am hoping it will be soon! Also, the new Pivot 429c looks to be a sweet ride, but I don't want to move away from Turner. I've been riding Turners and am so impressed with both the quality and customer service, and the fact that Dave keeps working to keep them made in the USA (no disrespect for other countries), that I'd rather go Turner again.
    The great use of life is to spend it for something that will outlast it.
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  10. #10
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    I think a carbon Turner would be cool but I have a plastic Niner and it doesn't feel like a long-term bike to me. It gets skinned up easily and just doesn't have the feel of a Turner. My alloy Turner is scratched a bit but seems to holds up much better. Alloy is still a cool frame material.

    The alloy Turners look hand made also...

  11. #11
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    Maybe Turner is working on something with Enve. Has anyone seen the V10 carbon plastered all over? It ain't cheap but hey. 4in carbon 29er seems like the best combo for what the market wants in that wheel size. 650b 4in travel bike? Not so much.

    _MK

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  12. #12
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    IMHO, a 29 carbon is in the right direction,
    a 650 in 140travel is like an answer to a question that was never been ask
    But hey, I would reconsider a 650flux though
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    IMHO, a 29 carbon is in the right direction,
    a 650 in 140travel is like an answer to a question that was never been ask
    But hey, I would reconsider a 650flux though
    It seems that Dave went preemptively for the 650b 5 Spot replacement trying to catch the 650 buzz. Hope it works out. Sad to see the 5 Spot go the way of a dinosaur. 650b 4in travel bike doesn't make much sense for a small brand since that travel is well within 29er domination.

    _MK

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  14. #14
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    Since we're all 'Asking Santa' I'll chime in...

    I'd like a Carbon 5.Spot with 150mm travel, room for a CCDBa, journal bearings (as always) and a 67-68* HTA. 26" wheels please, 6lb @ size XL and not an ounce more! :-)

    Thanks Santa.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    It seems that Dave went preemptively for the 650b 5 Spot replacement trying to catch the 650 buzz. Hope it works out. Sad to see the 5 Spot go the way of a dinosaur. 650b 4in travel bike doesn't make much sense for a small brand since that travel is well within 29er domination.

    _MK
    29er domination? Nino Schurter might argue that statement. I think the market for 650b race bikes will be there, especially for shorter riders or those that spend a lot of time on tight courses. Keep in mind that 26" race bikes are still selling well enough for all the major players (except specialized) to still be making them. I'm willing to bet that many people buying those bikes would have bought a 650b had it been an option.

    Getting in early is also a pretty good strategy for a small brand. But I do understand the fork manufacturers have to be on board.. maybe next year...

    I've spent the last year racing on a 29er but I'd go 650b in a heart beat if the right frame was out there. Converted santa cruz blur is really close but doesn't fit me.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    IMHO, a 29 carbon is in the right direction,
    a 650 in 140travel is like an answer to a question that was never been ask
    But hey, I would reconsider a 650flux though
    Huh? Aren't you perpetually asking for the RFX?

    I am guessing once again is that trail bikes are where the Turner volume is which is why Dave is offering "trail" bike travel in all three wheel sizes. In fact he says exactly that in the Turner Interbike Booth video.

    I also bet that if there is a carbon Turner it will be in the "trail" travel variety.

    DHR stands on its own of course...

    Bobo

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN View Post
    Huh? Aren't you perpetually asking for the RFX?

    Bobo
    YES...but not anymore
    I have a Chili on its way
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by climr View Post
    29er domination? Nino Schurter ...
    You misunderstood. 29er has market (as in consumer purchase/marketing dollars) dominance in 4in and below travel categories. 650B is being marketed as the wheel size for trail bikes. As to Nino Schurter, well, he's gonna pedal whatever he's paid to pedal. And it seems that every wheel size has had its time on the podium.

    _MK

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not just surrounded by a*holes

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbussiere View Post
    Since we're all 'Asking Santa' I'll chime in...

    I'd like a Carbon 5.Spot with 150mm travel, room for a CCDBa, journal bearings (as always) and a 67-68* HTA. 26" wheels please, 6lb @ size XL and not an ounce more! :-)

    Thanks Santa.
    Nice. I think it might be time for a separate "Wishful Santa" thread.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  20. #20
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    +1 on the Flux 650b (or Sultan 650b)... in alloy. For me, buying carbon would be paying more for nothing.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    +1 on the Flux 650b (or Sultan 650b)... in alloy. For me, buying carbon would be paying more for nothing.
    Agreed. I've got zero interest in a carbon frame. I'll take an aluminum frame with beautiful tig welds over a plastic bike any day. I do understand the technical advantages that are possible with carbon, but a plastic frame just leaves me cold.
    Taiwan could probably TIG weld a ham sandwich to a dictionary these days, but its been a while since they were doing brazing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    YES...but not anymore
    I have a Chili on its way
    A what?

  23. #23
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    Turner needs to come up with something truly innovative. For dog's sake, stop nipping at the heels of the "competitors" and get back to tinkering in the garage. It's too bad the dw_Link didn't work out like he expected, but what can you expect when the product doesn't deliver as promised?

    I know you got it in you Dave!

    Signed,

    PROcore

    PS: This is still one of the best machines around; just wish I cold get me hands on a horst link!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 29 Carbon, Dave?-turnerupload.jpg  


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK_ View Post
    You misunderstood. 29er has market (as in consumer purchase/marketing dollars) dominance in 4in and below travel categories. 650B is being marketed as the wheel size for trail bikes. As to Nino Schurter, well, he's gonna pedal whatever he's paid to pedal. And it seems that every wheel size has had its time on the podium.

    _MK
    My argument is that 26" bikes still sell in the <= 4" category. I believe the people buying those bikes didn't want 29ers for whatever reason, but they would go for 650b (if it were available) because it offers some of the positives of the larger wheel size with less of the negatives.

    As far as Nino riding what he's paid to ride, check the back story, Nino and his team manager requested that Scott build that bike after testing all the sizes. They don't even sell the bike he won on. Nino Schurter Wins World Cup #1 On 650b Wheels - BikeRadar

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_mann View Post
    Turner needs to come up with something truly innovative. For dog's sake, stop nipping at the heels of the "competitors" and get back to tinkering in the garage. It's too bad the dw_Link didn't work out like he expected, but what can you expect when the product doesn't deliver as promised?

    I know you got it in you Dave!

    Signed,

    PROcore

    PS: This is still one of the best machines around; just wish I cold get me hands on a horst link!
    Old Skool!


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_mann View Post
    Turner needs to come up with something truly innovative. For dog's sake, stop nipping at the heels of the "competitors" and get back to tinkering in the garage. It's too bad the dw_Link didn't work out like he expected, but what can you expect when the product doesn't deliver as promised?

    I know you got it in you Dave!

    Signed,

    PROcore

    PS: This is still one of the best machines around; just wish I cold get me hands on a horst link!
    Nice try. I like the Old School sticker! You need to spend some time (not a couple rides) on a DW Turner. Eventually you'll see the light Bryan

  27. #27
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    Yeah, I thought the DW-Link is working out great? That's the main reason I'm considering one. That's coming from a Pivot 429...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Yeah, I thought the DW-Link is working out great? That's the main reason I'm considering one. That's coming from a Pivot 429...
    It is if you actually ride one... Quite well in fact.

    Bobo

  29. #29
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    I haven't ridden any other suspension design that works as well over rough terrain for a shorter travel bike. Having gone back to a 4-bar HL, also a good design, I am looking forward to returning to the dw.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excelerator View Post
    With the exception of a very few homers who have superb skills, a four-bar linkage is much more forgiving if you tend to be more aggressive on the DH. Although, the HD would make a damn good compromise. Lets hope that the Spot gets a serious makeover with the inclusion of the 650b burner in the lineup.
    If looking for a 160 bike I bet the HD is killer. I have a good buddy that went from an Uzzi with 180 Totem to the HD Van front and rear and says is its leaps better all around, FWIW.

    The 12 Spot is pretty dialed. At this point I'm not sure what I would change about it. For a 140 bike it doesn't get any stouter or more capable up and down the mtn.

    Those trails in your new vid would be a fun test for it

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/52474498?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0&amp;b adge=0&amp;color=ff9933" width="800" height="450" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excelerator View Post
    Well, when the when John from X-Fusion stopped in he had his pick. When asked what he preferred, it was the HD hands down. The Spot is a great go-to for the Enduro stuff, but for pure fun factor I'd say I'd say the HD is slightly more compliant.
    I haven't ridden an HD myself but from what I've seen and heard I'm not sure I could argue with that statement

    I haven't heard great things about the HD suspension in the 140 mode - apparently it changes quite a bit. At 160 it's supposed to be practically identical to the Spot but with 20mm more travel.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    I haven't ridden an HD myself but from what I've seen and heard I'm not sure I could argue with that statement

    I haven't heard great things about the HD suspension in the 140 mode - apparently it changes quite a bit. At 160 it's supposed to be practically identical to the Spot but with 20mm more travel.
    Apologies for the non-Turner content but I just spent a week riding an Mojo HD 160 in Sedona after being on a Chilcotin for the whole season and if I were to do it again, I would probably chose the HD. The Chilcotin is a much more planted frame and for gravity duty dominates but if you pedal around and to the top before pointing the bike down, the HD is one of the best all-around frames I have had the pleasure to ride. The suspension is supple and responsive, pedal feedback in the granny is a non-issue (unlike the Banshee Spitfire I rode for the past two years), and the geometry is dialed.

    A friend (DBAD here on the boards) has been riding a DW 5 Spot with 650b wheels and swears by it. I'll have to hit him up for a test ride. I am really curious to feel the difference in implementation of the DW link between Ibis and Turner.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    Apologies for the non-Turner content but I just spent a week riding an Mojo HD 160 in Sedona after being on a Chilcotin for the whole season and if I were to do it again, I would probably chose the HD. The Chilcotin is a much more planted frame and for gravity duty dominates but if you pedal around and to the top before pointing the bike down, the HD is one of the best all-around frames I have had the pleasure to ride. The suspension is supple and responsive, pedal feedback in the granny is a non-issue (unlike the Banshee Spitfire I rode for the past two years), and the geometry is dialed.

    A friend (DBAD here on the boards) has been riding a DW 5 Spot with 650b wheels and swears by it. I'll have to hit him up for a test ride. I am really curious to feel the difference in implementation of the DW link between Ibis and Turner.
    I'm a kool-aide drinking believer in the DW. I rode Double H in Sedona last month and the Spot was absolutely perfect for those trails. My buddy was on an HD and he killed it out there too.

  34. #34
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    face lift

    What SHOULD become of the 5 Spot, obviously the Burner is going to be confusing and in retrospect I should have just called the 140mm x 27.5 bike "5 Spot" and be done with it. But others here gave compelling arguments for a new/old model name and the rest is history. So, not wanting to throw the name away and seeing that there may be some kinda market, albeit shrinking market for a 26 'trail bike' what do ya'll think should happen to 5 Spot because for the life of me I cannot come up with any ideas that are worth pissing a pile of money away on. Maybe I should jack the travel up to 160 and call it the RFX?! haha, sorry couldn't resist.

    DT

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    Wtf?

    So a bike for sanitized (IMBA) trails or a bike for old skul trails.... need to stay focused on which is what?

    Fix the hangers?

    142mm ?

    Old news

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    What SHOULD become of the 5 Spot, obviously the Burner is going to be confusing and in retrospect I should have just called the 140mm x 27.5 bike "5 Spot" and be done with it. But others here gave compelling arguments for a new/old model name and the rest is history. So, not wanting to throw the name away and seeing that there may be some kinda market, albeit shrinking market for a 26 'trail bike' what do ya'll think should happen to 5 Spot because for the life of me I cannot come up with any ideas that are worth pissing a pile of money away on. Maybe I should jack the travel up to 160 and call it the RFX?! haha, sorry couldn't resist.

    DT
    Why don't you bump the travel up to 150 and make it your enduro racing/AM bike? It seems like enduro racing is becoming quite popular.

    I have to say the 27.5 wheel size has been thrown at us with little explanation from manufacturers. Is it just another alternative? I understand its suppose to role better than 26", BUT.... (with all other things equalIs) it more trail oriented? is it more DH oriented? Is it better for a light weight trail bike or burly AM bike?

    Where do you see the Burner fit into your line? It looks like it would be great for the sanitized IMBA trails.

    Any chance at making a light weight trail ripper in place of the Flux? Bike like the Blur TrC, ASR-5, Bandit...seem to be doing well. This is where I think 27.5 would be awesome.

  37. #37
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    I wondered about the Burner nomenclature for what seems to be the progression of the 5 Spot. The Burner would be better suited for an xc rocket like a 4" travel carbon 27.5 or 29r. But, aside from marketing considerations, people that ride your bikes don't buy them because of a cool frame names but keep the classics. The progression of wheel sizes and frame material will make some more room.





    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    What SHOULD become of the 5 Spot, obviously the Burner is going to be confusing and in retrospect I should have just called the 140mm x 27.5 bike "5 Spot" and be done with it. But others here gave compelling arguments for a new/old model name and the rest is history. So, not wanting to throw the name away and seeing that there may be some kinda market, albeit shrinking market for a 26 'trail bike' what do ya'll think should happen to 5 Spot because for the life of me I cannot come up with any ideas that are worth pissing a pile of money away on. Maybe I should jack the travel up to 160 and call it the RFX?! haha, sorry couldn't resist.

    DT

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    Here's my take on face lift for Spot.

    Bump the rear travel to 160mm and be able to handle 180/160 fork via replaceable dropout or flip chips on rockers. Should be able to handle 26 or 27.5 tires. Drop the "5" and just call it Spot. We need some adjustability on frame geo.

    Leave the Sultan for XC and Burner for trail and bump the Spot for AM.

    Would be nice to drop that funky elevated chain stay.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    What SHOULD become of the 5 Spot, obviously the Burner is going to be confusing and in retrospect I should have just called the 140mm x 27.5 bike "5 Spot" and be done with it. But others here gave compelling arguments for a new/old model name and the rest is history. So, not wanting to throw the name away and seeing that there may be some kinda market, albeit shrinking market for a 26 'trail bike' what do ya'll think should happen to 5 Spot because for the life of me I cannot come up with any ideas that are worth pissing a pile of money away on. Maybe I should jack the travel up to 160 and call it the RFX?! haha, sorry couldn't resist.

    DT
    I'm not all that into e-engineering but the evolution of the Spot is important to me given that I love the bike and it's my do-it-all go to bike. Here are two options to consider:

    • Carbon (discontinue aluminum)
    • Full Tapered Head Tube
    • Travel 150mm
    • Head Angle 67* Based on a 535mm A-C (Fox 34 set at 160mm) with EC Headset. This bike isn't designed for a 32mm fork.
    • BB Height 13.5" with 2.2 Trail Kings as a baseline
    • All other geometry and features to be the same as they currently are.
    • Same suspension curve as the Spot

    Or, to get a little more separation from the Burner:

    • Carbon (discontinue aluminum)
    • Full Tapered Head Tube
    • Travel 160mm
    • Head Angle 66.5* Based on a 545mm A-C (Fox 36 set at 160mm) with ZS Headset.
    • BB Height 13.75" with 2.2 Trail Kings
    • All other geometry and features to be the same as they currently are.
    • Same suspension curve as the Spot

    This is your rough Trail/Enduro/AM/(FR for those who want to over build it, wouldn't get caught up in pleasing the FR crowd, like you said they don't buy expensive bikes) bike that can compete with the current Spot, Mojo HD and Nomad C. It's not an over built tank like the prototype RFX. It pedals great, can climb all day and descend like a beast over nasty terrain without feeling like a mack truck or dragging pedals down the trail. Keep the cockpit tight to reign in the wheelbase (like the current Spot) which will enhance control in tighter technical terrain. Still baffled by the Burner's TT but need to ride one, might change my tune

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    What SHOULD become of the 5 Spot, obviously the Burner is going to be confusing and in retrospect I should have just called the 140mm x 27.5 bike "5 Spot" and be done with it. But others here gave compelling arguments for a new/old model name and the rest is history. So, not wanting to throw the name away and seeing that there may be some kinda market, albeit shrinking market for a 26 'trail bike' what do ya'll think should happen to 5 Spot because for the life of me I cannot come up with any ideas that are worth pissing a pile of money away on. Maybe I should jack the travel up to 160 and call it the RFX?! haha, sorry couldn't resist.

    DT
    Just bump the spots travel up 150-160 mm to mach the 150-160mm Fox 34 forks & longer toptubes with internal droperpost ,also a carbon spot to replace my carbon pivot

  41. #41
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    David, sounds like you should just start building custom bikes...

    The big problem right now is market saturation.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck View Post
    The big problem right now is market saturation.
    Are you referring to Turner's extensive lineup of 5-5.5" travel bikes?

    Here's what it needs to look like:
    -100mm carbon Czar & Sultan for 29"ers
    -120mm carbon Flux & Burner for 650b
    -160mm carbon Spot/RFX & DHR for 26"

    Done.

    Five years ago Turner had six (6!) 26" bikes and the Sultan. No reason the market couldn't support six distinct models spanning three wheel sizes today.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

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    I agree with making the spot a direct competitor for the Mojo HD and the Nomadc. I think that's where the market will continue to support 26" wheels.

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    Seriously? Everyone wants a CF frame??? Doesn't really interest me. I'd rather see incremental improvements on a proven Al bike. Maybe start out with a CF rear tri rather than risking the farm on tooling for an entire bike.
    whatever...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    I'm not all that into e-engineering but the evolution of the Spot is important to me given that I love the bike and it's my do-it-all go to bike. Here are two options to consider:

    • Carbon (discontinue aluminum)
    • Full Tapered Head Tube
    • Travel 150mm
    • Head Angle 67* Based on a 535mm A-C (Fox 34 set at 160mm) with EC Headset. This bike isn't designed for a 32mm fork.
    • BB Height 13.5" with 2.2 Trail Kings as a baseline
    • All other geometry and features to be the same as they currently are.
    • Same suspension curve as the Spot

    Or, to get a little more separation from the Burner:

    • Carbon (discontinue aluminum)
    • Full Tapered Head Tube
    • Travel 160mm
    • Head Angle 66.5* Based on a 545mm A-C (Fox 36 set at 160mm) with ZS Headset.
    • BB Height 13.75" with 2.2 Trail Kings
    • All other geometry and features to be the same as they currently are.
    • Same suspension curve as the Spot

    This is your rough Trail/Enduro/AM/(FR for those who want to over build it, wouldn't get caught up in pleasing the FR crowd, like you said they don't buy expensive bikes) bike that can compete with the current Spot, Mojo HD and Nomad C. It's not an over built tank like the prototype RFX. It pedals great, can climb all day and descend like a beast over nasty terrain without feeling like a mack truck or dragging pedals down the trail. Keep the cockpit tight to reign in the wheelbase (like the current Spot) which will enhance control in tighter technical terrain. Still baffled by the Burner's TT but need to ride one, might change my tune

    I couldn't agree more with what Lance posted.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadite View Post
    Seriously? Everyone wants a CF frame???
    I used to be 100% against carbon, but right now I could go either way; aluminum should be cheaper, perhaps more impact resistant, and hopefully US made, carbon could be lighter/stiffer/stronger. You have to figure carbon is gradually taking over the market though, and by the time a completely redesigned Spot was out a >$2.5k aluminum 26" bike might not move a whole lot of units.

    Plus, four years of asking/begging/cajoling DT to build a 160mm aluminum bike have gotten us nowhere, might as well try a new angle.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  47. #47
    dlc
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    Would like to see straight tapered head tube across the board for angleset options.

    29er=
    Czar- 100mm carbon race bike (Hifi, tallboy)
    Sultan-130-140mm 67* heavy trail / big guys enduro ( new banshe prime, covert, wfo)

    650b=
    Burner- what it is, sick trail do it all bike
    Eventually a carbon 160mm mojo nomad killer.

    26"=
    SPOT- 150-160mm adjustable geo based around 66*hta, and would be nice to see changeable dropouts to run 650.
    DHR- DH race bike

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    So a bike for sanitized (IMBA) trails or a bike for old skul trails.... need to stay focused on which is what?

    Fix the hangers?

    142mm ?

    Old news
    I wonder if reading this stuff drives you insane, pisses you off, or helps in any way.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    what do ya'll think should happen to 5 Spot because for the life of me I cannot come up with any ideas that are worth pissing a pile of money away on. Maybe I should jack the travel up to 160 and call it the RFX?! haha, sorry couldn't resist.

    DT
    wtf!
    are you kidding me?!
    But I think the timing is just right,
    But the time you are ready with that RF*ckinThing,
    I will be ready too
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  50. #50
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    Spot's Future?

    I'm also not a big carbon fanatic, but it is a nice option to have if you lean that way. Might there be a reason not a whole heckuva lot of people run carbon cranks? They aint cheap for one. And I'd prefer a ding over a chip. My fricken pricey Easton Havoc bar has a really nice scar in them. I've been considering the Burner on rides lately, but then, I can't get over the cost to get into a Burner, and do I really want a larger wheel? I mean, my RFX does everything and more, whereas my Flux, sure it's light and beats the crap out of me, but, well, it's not going anywhere now that it's a collectible.

    As far as the 5 Spot, or Turner Bikes, goes, I would like distinct options. I dig the idea of the 6 bikes over three ranges, totally dig it! (Czar, *****en name). Anyway: 5 Spot: Drop the 5, and bump the travel. Done. The Spot becomes the "little-er" RFX.

    But what's really missing? In all seriousness, a hardtail. Why not??? My SS (26!) is so much fun to ride, and it makes my RFX feel so plushy and smooth.. and that's where I'd get a "twosevenfive" - HT. Flick it, run it, jump it, race it!!. Would this fill the gap of super lightweight XC as well? Possibly so. But on the other hand, so many newcomers to the sport aren't going XC or AM, some are using their bikes for jumping, park, etc. Hmmm... a 275 "Chameleon" style Turner??? Or 29 endurance racer? Why are all these hardtail racers suddenly popping up? Because they're fun and affordable. So, why not? Alloy, even carbon, hardtails are cheaper to build (no licensing, aka more profit), and helluva lot of fun to ride. Dave, fill the gaps where there ARE gaps, not millimeters. It doesn't have to have suspension to be a Turner - just the DT touch. There needs to be a Turner represented at any type of event...even CX.

  51. #51
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    I would look at the Turner lineup as;

    29" Czar a carbon version at 100mm with with 100mm fork
    650b Flux at 100mm with 100-120fork
    650b Burner at 140mm with140-160fork (currently in the lineup)
    26" Spot - current model has nothing else to change (up to DT to retain or kill it)
    26" RFX at 170mm with 170-180fork a balance mini-DH bike for us who doesn't need a full DH race bike.
    26" DHR - full DH racer

    But this is just how I would prefer it look into my personal lineup
    Last edited by Bullit_cn; 11-29-2012 at 02:25 AM.
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  52. #52
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    Well, you did ask....

    It seems to me the Burner is the new 5spot. Maybe the iconic 5spot name just needs to rest for a while....just as the RFX did during the 6pack years, only to return a while later, maybe when the market becomes clearer as the whole wheelsize and carbon/ali issue runs its course.

    With the stopping of the Flux, the bigger gap in the line up seems to me to be toward the XC/light trail segment. As much as I'd love to see a carbon hardtail 29er Turner, the market is saturated with these things...and we are after all talking about Turner Suspension Bicycles, and that's the core identity of the brand.

    DT and the crew were a big part of getting the 650b movement picking up more momentum with the Burner. Maybe that's where to commit to....admittedly a risky business strategy when the market has yet to adopt 650 significantly, but then developing a new 26" model in a changing market would also be also risky. I don't envy you DT! The talk all seems to be of 650 being for the 140-160mm segment, but surely the same benefits hold for lighter trail toward the 120mm end (or bang on the 125mm spot...wait...that's 5 inches, maybe there's a model name in there somewhere....).

    I reckon the big players like Scott who will drop 26" have been able to spend a lot more money on focus groups to help them ascertain the market, than DT can by asking "What's to become of the 5spot?" on an mtbr forum. So my suggestion for this disenfranchised focus group is take a lead from the big guys, then morph it into something that is distinctly Turner, i.e. has Turner feel and features, and legendary CS.

    note: I know jacksh1t about the bike industry! Just my limited rider's perspective
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  53. #53
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    lineup update

    The current lineup is perfect for the xc/non shuttle rider who likes rough and steep trails.

    I am very happy with the spot and the sultan. Those bikes are today's version of "as good as it gets".

    Although, being at the upper end of fitting a Large, maybe there is room for a long front triangle option? Maybe in the most common tweener size for adult male mountain bikers. A LARGE!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugardare View Post
    But what's really missing? In all seriousness, a hardtail.
    No doubt hardtails have their place, but if Turner Suspension Bicycles has resisted jumping into that market for the last twenty years then I don't know why they would start now, especially when there are still a lot more directions they could go with FS bikes.

    DT has done a one-off CX bike in the past and is quite fond of/competitive in the discipline himself, so I wouldn't be shocked to see one of those offered at some point. If he ever gets the hankering to design/ride his own carbon CX bike he'll probably need to do a larger run than just he and his immediate family members can put to use.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  55. #55
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    Good grief this is a hard bunch to please. I just want a Turner I can race on. I'll take a 29er or a 650b, just make me a Turner that goes fast please.

    ok, I do have one request, should it be a 29er, please make those chain stays short!! :-)

  56. #56
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    Turner racing

    Good grief this is a hard bunch to please. I just want a Turner I can race on. I'll take a 29er or a 650b, just make me a Turner that goes fast please.
    Dat da troof
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    The current lineup is perfect for the xc/non shuttle rider who likes rough and steep trails.

    I am very happy with the spot and the sultan. Those bikes are today's version of "as good as it gets".
    No argument here, but I can't imagine there are many riders such as yourself who own two of the current "trail" bikes (Sultan/Spot/Burner). Compare this to years past when there were endless "Spot vs. Flux" or "Spot vs. RFX" discussions, with many riders ultimately deciding "both" was the correct answer. Now it's just a matter of picking which of the three wheel sizes you prefer, and that determines which Turner you're on.

    Of course that is a choice virtually all of the larger brands and most of the smaller ones do not offer, and the current lineup of trail bikes should cover most riders' needs (if not wants). And once the Czar is out (just a matter of when, not if, and DT is being understandably tight lipped about that) it will no doubt complement any of the current trail bikes nicely. I just hope that as committed as DT has been to 27.5 all along, he offers a more race oriented option in that wheel size too at some point.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitnessgeek View Post
    I wonder if reading this stuff drives you insane, pisses you off, or helps in any way.
    I will go out on a limb, and predict that DT's answer is YES.

    To all of them!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  59. #59
    MSH
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    My conversation with Jarett a couple of days ago was enough for me to put my new frame purchase on hold and wait it out. Not a lot of specifics provided but he said if I'm patient they are working on something. This was in response to my question for a carbon XC race version of the Sultan. There are a lot of great options out there right now in the XC carbon 29 category, but I'll pass on them all for what's potentially coming down the pipe from DT

  60. #60
    memento mori
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    Time to start saving my pennies.

  61. #61
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    To me, Turner says U.S. made--I'd rather you keep aluminum built here than add a line of imported CF personally. Though if you added a U.S. made CF option for ridiculous money I don't doubt you'd sell a few...

    Re, the place of 650b in the market, I think the sky's the limit. It's being marketed right now as an alternative to 29'er in longer travel bikes but I know from experience that it works pretty darned well with about any amount of travel or none at all. I've owned a rigid 650b SS, currently have a softail (Curlo-one of my favorite bikes of all time) and owned a Ventana Bastardo with 5" travel. (not my favorite--the bike seemed too tall/tippy so I sold it)

    I think it can be targeted in two primary ways. One as a proportional choice--as in 26" for small frames, 27.5" for medium, and 29" for large frames. The other as an alternative to the two extremes, the "momma bear," idea--a good choice for anyone who sees the appeal of a bigger wheel but finds 29'er ponderous or awkward, or a nice option for anyone who digs wagon wheels but wants something smaller for longer travel bikes or for trails that call for more nimble handling, but who doesn't want to go all the way down to a 26."

    I'm sorely, sorely tempted by the Burner. I dig the history (almost bought an original Burner in the late 90's) and I really want to try a bleeding edge suspension design like the DW linkage. The only thing stopping me is wondering/hoping that something with a little more cross country travel/geometry might be coming down the line. Though since I love the Curtlo for almost anything that I've previously ridden 3-4" travel FS on, I almost think something like the Burner would be a better choice so it's not bumping up against the capabilities/mission of my softail!

    Does anyone think a 140mm travel fork on the Burner would be an awful idea? It would steepen things up just a hair and is plenty of travel for anything I care to risk my 50 year old neck on. I believe that's what some of the early prototypes had, too. Or would it lower the BB too much?
    Last edited by SteveF; 12-01-2012 at 08:10 AM.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    To me, Turner says U.S. made--I'd rather you keep aluminum built here than add a line of imported CF personally.
    Agreed 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Does anyone think a 140mm travel fork on the Burner would be an awful idea? It would steepen things up just a hair and is plenty of travel for anything I care to risk my 50 year old neck on. I believe that's what some of the early prototypes had, too. Or would it lower the BB too much?
    If I were buying either a Burner or a Sultan tomorrow, I'd put shorter travel forks on both. Not a fan of the way everyone's going to slacker head angles.

  63. #63
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    Spent time on sultans with both a 120 and 140 for fork before buying the sultan with a fox 34 140. In the last thousand miles I've had 1 climb where I was wishing for a 120 fork to keep the front end down. I prefer the extra squish but to each his own :-)

  64. #64
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    So let me get this straight, I just ordered a 5spot and now ya'll talk about changing it or dropping it?
    I would have liked to have an even 150mm of travel, but honestly if the leverage ratio is more progressive on the spot than my 01 RFX I doubt I'll miss that tiny bit of travel, unfortunately such subtleties are difficult to communicate and get potential customers to understand when looking at the competitions bikes with more travel.

    If you do expand into carbon, at least one of them needs to be designed to be as crash resistant as the old RFX. Lots of people purchase Turners because they know they last, not to save weight. So if you venture into that material keep such durability a prime focus and not get sucked into possible weight savings with unpredictable crash performance.

    Now, why did I order the 5spot? I don't want to change or relace my wheels and buy a different fork. From what I can tell the design of the 2012 5spot has reached an appropriate level of refinement with the switch from the taco to the burrito, the 142mm dropouts, the larger seatpost to accomodate a dropper, and the curved downtube to accept a wider variety of shocks. I also don't purposely seek out and engage in abusive riding anymore, however if the trail I'm riding has some gnarly features in a line that flows well, I will attempt and try to master them. I also ride to the top and try to blaze down the hills. The current spot seems to fit that bill. I can only hope the 2012 spot will have a similar lifespan to my RFX, and I have abused the hell outa that thing.



    Of course the short and simple is, if the spot keeps selling don't change the wheelsize unless it can accept both 26 and 27.5 in some manner that doesn't negatively affect the suspension or handling. Though an extra bit of travel may help with marketing.

  65. #65
    BBW
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    No plastic for me, thanks!
    BBW. MS, RD

  66. #66
    memento mori
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    Carbon 100mm 29er with two decent h20 mounts. Angles that work with a 120mm fork.Keep the wheelbase tight. Make it where ever you want.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by climr View Post
    Good grief this is a hard bunch to please. I just want a Turner I can race on. I'll take a 29er or a 650b, just make me a Turner that goes fast please.

    ok, I do have one request, should it be a 29er, please make those chain stays short!! :-)
    I agree with the race bit - but the race is Super Enduro, so I'm looking for a Mojo HD killer in carbon or AL or combo of both. My 5Spot with 160 fork kicks@rse but would love to see it with 150 or 160 rear travel (but no heavier). Would 27.5 wheels in this category make it even better? We will have to wait and see how the market goes.

    My thoughts
    Deanopatoni

  68. #68
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    totally agree

    the answer is 'yes', you guys come up with great ideas. Thanks and

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

    DT

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    the answer is 'yes', you guys come up with great ideas. Thanks and

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

    DT
    Yes to carbon 29er or 150-160 mm travel bike???

  70. #70
    30-ton War Machine
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    Hilarious, I have been away for a year and this is still going on in the Turner world. Maybe instead of convincing a successful businessman how YOU think HE should do business, you could spend your time telling Warren Buffet how to invest HIS money.

  71. #71
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    Maybe Warren should invest in Turner Bikes.

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