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  1. #51
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    I would look at the Turner lineup as;

    29" Czar a carbon version at 100mm with with 100mm fork
    650b Flux at 100mm with 100-120fork
    650b Burner at 140mm with140-160fork (currently in the lineup)
    26" Spot - current model has nothing else to change (up to DT to retain or kill it)
    26" RFX at 170mm with 170-180fork a balance mini-DH bike for us who doesn't need a full DH race bike.
    26" DHR - full DH racer

    But this is just how I would prefer it look into my personal lineup
    Last edited by Bullit_cn; 11-29-2012 at 02:25 AM.
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  2. #52
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    Well, you did ask....

    It seems to me the Burner is the new 5spot. Maybe the iconic 5spot name just needs to rest for a while....just as the RFX did during the 6pack years, only to return a while later, maybe when the market becomes clearer as the whole wheelsize and carbon/ali issue runs its course.

    With the stopping of the Flux, the bigger gap in the line up seems to me to be toward the XC/light trail segment. As much as I'd love to see a carbon hardtail 29er Turner, the market is saturated with these things...and we are after all talking about Turner Suspension Bicycles, and that's the core identity of the brand.

    DT and the crew were a big part of getting the 650b movement picking up more momentum with the Burner. Maybe that's where to commit to....admittedly a risky business strategy when the market has yet to adopt 650 significantly, but then developing a new 26" model in a changing market would also be also risky. I don't envy you DT! The talk all seems to be of 650 being for the 140-160mm segment, but surely the same benefits hold for lighter trail toward the 120mm end (or bang on the 125mm spot...wait...that's 5 inches, maybe there's a model name in there somewhere....).

    I reckon the big players like Scott who will drop 26" have been able to spend a lot more money on focus groups to help them ascertain the market, than DT can by asking "What's to become of the 5spot?" on an mtbr forum. So my suggestion for this disenfranchised focus group is take a lead from the big guys, then morph it into something that is distinctly Turner, i.e. has Turner feel and features, and legendary CS.

    note: I know jacksh1t about the bike industry! Just my limited rider's perspective
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  3. #53
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    lineup update

    The current lineup is perfect for the xc/non shuttle rider who likes rough and steep trails.

    I am very happy with the spot and the sultan. Those bikes are today's version of "as good as it gets".

    Although, being at the upper end of fitting a Large, maybe there is room for a long front triangle option? Maybe in the most common tweener size for adult male mountain bikers. A LARGE!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugardare View Post
    But what's really missing? In all seriousness, a hardtail.
    No doubt hardtails have their place, but if Turner Suspension Bicycles has resisted jumping into that market for the last twenty years then I don't know why they would start now, especially when there are still a lot more directions they could go with FS bikes.

    DT has done a one-off CX bike in the past and is quite fond of/competitive in the discipline himself, so I wouldn't be shocked to see one of those offered at some point. If he ever gets the hankering to design/ride his own carbon CX bike he'll probably need to do a larger run than just he and his immediate family members can put to use.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  5. #55
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    Good grief this is a hard bunch to please. I just want a Turner I can race on. I'll take a 29er or a 650b, just make me a Turner that goes fast please.

    ok, I do have one request, should it be a 29er, please make those chain stays short!! :-)

  6. #56
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    Turner racing

    Good grief this is a hard bunch to please. I just want a Turner I can race on. I'll take a 29er or a 650b, just make me a Turner that goes fast please.
    Dat da troof
    'I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good' - Syd B

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    The current lineup is perfect for the xc/non shuttle rider who likes rough and steep trails.

    I am very happy with the spot and the sultan. Those bikes are today's version of "as good as it gets".
    No argument here, but I can't imagine there are many riders such as yourself who own two of the current "trail" bikes (Sultan/Spot/Burner). Compare this to years past when there were endless "Spot vs. Flux" or "Spot vs. RFX" discussions, with many riders ultimately deciding "both" was the correct answer. Now it's just a matter of picking which of the three wheel sizes you prefer, and that determines which Turner you're on.

    Of course that is a choice virtually all of the larger brands and most of the smaller ones do not offer, and the current lineup of trail bikes should cover most riders' needs (if not wants). And once the Czar is out (just a matter of when, not if, and DT is being understandably tight lipped about that) it will no doubt complement any of the current trail bikes nicely. I just hope that as committed as DT has been to 27.5 all along, he offers a more race oriented option in that wheel size too at some point.
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitnessgeek View Post
    I wonder if reading this stuff drives you insane, pisses you off, or helps in any way.
    I will go out on a limb, and predict that DT's answer is YES.

    To all of them!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  9. #59
    MSH
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    My conversation with Jarett a couple of days ago was enough for me to put my new frame purchase on hold and wait it out. Not a lot of specifics provided but he said if I'm patient they are working on something. This was in response to my question for a carbon XC race version of the Sultan. There are a lot of great options out there right now in the XC carbon 29 category, but I'll pass on them all for what's potentially coming down the pipe from DT

  10. #60
    memento mori
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    Time to start saving my pennies.

  11. #61
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    To me, Turner says U.S. made--I'd rather you keep aluminum built here than add a line of imported CF personally. Though if you added a U.S. made CF option for ridiculous money I don't doubt you'd sell a few...

    Re, the place of 650b in the market, I think the sky's the limit. It's being marketed right now as an alternative to 29'er in longer travel bikes but I know from experience that it works pretty darned well with about any amount of travel or none at all. I've owned a rigid 650b SS, currently have a softail (Curlo-one of my favorite bikes of all time) and owned a Ventana Bastardo with 5" travel. (not my favorite--the bike seemed too tall/tippy so I sold it)

    I think it can be targeted in two primary ways. One as a proportional choice--as in 26" for small frames, 27.5" for medium, and 29" for large frames. The other as an alternative to the two extremes, the "momma bear," idea--a good choice for anyone who sees the appeal of a bigger wheel but finds 29'er ponderous or awkward, or a nice option for anyone who digs wagon wheels but wants something smaller for longer travel bikes or for trails that call for more nimble handling, but who doesn't want to go all the way down to a 26."

    I'm sorely, sorely tempted by the Burner. I dig the history (almost bought an original Burner in the late 90's) and I really want to try a bleeding edge suspension design like the DW linkage. The only thing stopping me is wondering/hoping that something with a little more cross country travel/geometry might be coming down the line. Though since I love the Curtlo for almost anything that I've previously ridden 3-4" travel FS on, I almost think something like the Burner would be a better choice so it's not bumping up against the capabilities/mission of my softail!

    Does anyone think a 140mm travel fork on the Burner would be an awful idea? It would steepen things up just a hair and is plenty of travel for anything I care to risk my 50 year old neck on. I believe that's what some of the early prototypes had, too. Or would it lower the BB too much?
    Last edited by SteveF; 12-01-2012 at 08:10 AM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    To me, Turner says U.S. made--I'd rather you keep aluminum built here than add a line of imported CF personally.
    Agreed 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Does anyone think a 140mm travel fork on the Burner would be an awful idea? It would steepen things up just a hair and is plenty of travel for anything I care to risk my 50 year old neck on. I believe that's what some of the early prototypes had, too. Or would it lower the BB too much?
    If I were buying either a Burner or a Sultan tomorrow, I'd put shorter travel forks on both. Not a fan of the way everyone's going to slacker head angles.

  13. #63
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    Spent time on sultans with both a 120 and 140 for fork before buying the sultan with a fox 34 140. In the last thousand miles I've had 1 climb where I was wishing for a 120 fork to keep the front end down. I prefer the extra squish but to each his own :-)

  14. #64
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    So let me get this straight, I just ordered a 5spot and now ya'll talk about changing it or dropping it?
    I would have liked to have an even 150mm of travel, but honestly if the leverage ratio is more progressive on the spot than my 01 RFX I doubt I'll miss that tiny bit of travel, unfortunately such subtleties are difficult to communicate and get potential customers to understand when looking at the competitions bikes with more travel.

    If you do expand into carbon, at least one of them needs to be designed to be as crash resistant as the old RFX. Lots of people purchase Turners because they know they last, not to save weight. So if you venture into that material keep such durability a prime focus and not get sucked into possible weight savings with unpredictable crash performance.

    Now, why did I order the 5spot? I don't want to change or relace my wheels and buy a different fork. From what I can tell the design of the 2012 5spot has reached an appropriate level of refinement with the switch from the taco to the burrito, the 142mm dropouts, the larger seatpost to accomodate a dropper, and the curved downtube to accept a wider variety of shocks. I also don't purposely seek out and engage in abusive riding anymore, however if the trail I'm riding has some gnarly features in a line that flows well, I will attempt and try to master them. I also ride to the top and try to blaze down the hills. The current spot seems to fit that bill. I can only hope the 2012 spot will have a similar lifespan to my RFX, and I have abused the hell outa that thing.



    Of course the short and simple is, if the spot keeps selling don't change the wheelsize unless it can accept both 26 and 27.5 in some manner that doesn't negatively affect the suspension or handling. Though an extra bit of travel may help with marketing.

  15. #65
    BBW
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    No plastic for me, thanks!
    BBW. MS, RD

  16. #66
    memento mori
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    Carbon 100mm 29er with two decent h20 mounts. Angles that work with a 120mm fork.Keep the wheelbase tight. Make it where ever you want.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by climr View Post
    Good grief this is a hard bunch to please. I just want a Turner I can race on. I'll take a 29er or a 650b, just make me a Turner that goes fast please.

    ok, I do have one request, should it be a 29er, please make those chain stays short!! :-)
    I agree with the race bit - but the race is Super Enduro, so I'm looking for a Mojo HD killer in carbon or AL or combo of both. My 5Spot with 160 fork kicks@rse but would love to see it with 150 or 160 rear travel (but no heavier). Would 27.5 wheels in this category make it even better? We will have to wait and see how the market goes.

    My thoughts
    Deanopatoni

  18. #68
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    totally agree

    the answer is 'yes', you guys come up with great ideas. Thanks and

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

    DT

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    the answer is 'yes', you guys come up with great ideas. Thanks and

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

    DT
    Yes to carbon 29er or 150-160 mm travel bike???

  20. #70
    30-ton War Machine
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    Hilarious, I have been away for a year and this is still going on in the Turner world. Maybe instead of convincing a successful businessman how YOU think HE should do business, you could spend your time telling Warren Buffet how to invest HIS money.

  21. #71
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    Maybe Warren should invest in Turner Bikes.

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