Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 120
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    25 pounds 5 Spot

    ... here we are: after 7 years my GT STS in is semi-retirement and the 5 spot is built!

    I took it out a few times (it works fine) and I will post a report in a month with a comparison with the Blur (I spent 3 weeks on one this winter). For now I hope you like the bike that has quite a lot of attention to detail and esthetics, and have fun with the fairly irrelevant weight issue.

    PS some of the details (especially the front der!) on the bike are not final this is a pre-first-ride riding photo session.
    PS PS I am quite of a no-logo person, the cheap Turner decals had to go (thanks god they where not laser etched) but I left an UR, which suggests the UR-bike nature of the 5 spot?
    PS PS PS thanks to hammerhead bikes for shipping the frame

    WEIGHT. The frame with installed headset (130 grams) brake bosses, and seat collar is 3440. The shock is heavy at 699 grams. The spring is a 450 lbs 2.25" and it is 345 grams. The longer spring (If I am not mistaken the 2003 shipped with a 2" spring) might explain some of the small weight increase of 2004 vs 2003 models: 1/4" length is about 40 grams more.

    Total weight is a bit more than 26 lbs, in a trim that is almost perfect for my style of riding. Sub 25 lbs are VERY possible with an air shock (- 1 lbs) a long travel air fork (- .3 pounds) and lighter wheels (- .3 pounds, my Chris King are 32 and not very light). The sturdier build I would consider adds at most 2/3 pounds (heavier tires and maybe larger pedals).

    Not bad: a convertible 5 spot can go from < 25 to 27 pounds ...

    Now the boring details:

    Brakes Complete (Vuelta Mag tuned all bolts included) 266
    Levers (Tuned Vuelta Mag) 142
    brake booster (Shimano Carbon) 55
    BB TNT Titanium 158
    Race Face LP 170 mm with rings titanium/aluminum bolts 662
    Pedals Frog titanium 205
    Rear Der Sachs Tuned 199
    Front Der 130
    XT Cassette 12-32 300
    Chain 300
    Grips (cut) 70
    HandleBar Maxm 26" 160
    Shifters (Sachs R, cut Attack L) 120
    Cables 120
    Stem 120 (KORE Elite titanium bolts) 195
    Marz Z1 2001 (including cup) 1987 Note: this is a 2001 Z1 with 30mm stanchions
    Medium Silver Frame+Syncros headset+setpost collar 3440
    Seat Post (Tompson with titanium bolts) 230
    Seat (WTB Stealth) 230
    Front+Rear Chris King with skewers and lining 1690
    Tires (Specialized 1.95) 950
    Tubes (Torelli) 260
    TOTAL (Kg) 11.869
    (lbs) 26.14317181

    All weights on a digital scale, I weighted multiple components together (e.g. all drivetrain) and then check each component and their sum.

    FRAME/SHOCK PROTECTION:

    Chain Stay: Multiple layers of white (now black) carbon vinyl. 5 layers give about 20 mils or about 0.5 mm of vinyl, which makes a sturdy protector.
    Head Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    Seat Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    BB: 1 layer of carbon vinyl (under frame)
    Shock: covered in white or black vinyl tape depending on the mood. For winter/rainy riding I use an tire inner tube to enclose the shock.

    ESTHETICS:

    IRD cables are silver and black.
    The ugly top tube cable route is "hidden" in silver mylar as well as the rear der on the seatstay.
    Carbon vinyl is used for frame protection
    Water Bottle holes are covered with small carbon vinyl patch.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,736

    Very cool bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... here we are: after 7 years my GT STS in is semi-retirement and the 5 spot is built!

    I took it out a few times (it works fine) but I will post a report in a month with a full comparison with the Blur (I spent 3 weeks on one this winter). For now I hope you like the bike, that has quite a lot of attention to detail and esthetics, and have fun with the fairly irrelevant weight issue (thanks to hammerhead bikes for shipping the frame).

    PS some of the details (especially the front der!) on the bike are not final this is a pre-first-ride riding photo session.
    PS PS I am quite of a no-logo person, the cheap Turner decals had to go (thanks god they where not laser etched) but I left an UR, which suggests the UR-bike nature of the 5 spot?

    WEIGHT. The frame with installed headset (130 grams) brake bosses, and seat collar is 3440. The shock is heavy at 699 grams. The spring is a 450 lbs 2.25" and it is 345 grams. The longer spring (If I am not mistaken the 2003 shipped with a 2" spring) might explain some of the weight increase of 2004 vs 2003 models: 1/4" length is about 40 grams more.

    Total weight is a bit more than 26 lbs, in a trim that is almost perfect for my style of riding. Sub 25 lbs are VERY possible with an air shock (- 1 lbs) a long travel air fork (- .3 pounds) and lighter wheels (- .3 pounds, my Chris King are 32 and not very light). The sturdier build I would consider adds at most 2/3 pounds (heavier tires and maybe larger pedals).

    Not bad: a convertible 5 spot can go from < 25 to 27 pounds ...

    Now the boring details:

    Brakes Complete (Vuelta Mag tuned all bolts included) 266
    Levers (Tuned Vuelta Mag) 142
    brake booster (Shimano Carbon) 55
    BB TNT Titanium 158
    Race Face LP 170 mm with rings titanium/aluminum bolts 662
    Pedals Frog titanium 205
    Rear Der Sachs Tuned 199
    Front Der 130
    XT Cassette 12-32 300
    Chain 300
    Grips (cut) 70
    HandleBar Maxm 26" 160
    Shifters (Sachs R, cut Attack L) 120
    Cables 120
    Stem 120 (KORE Elite titanium bolts) 195
    Marz Z1 2001 (including cup) 1987 Note: this is a 2001 Z1 with 30mm stanchions
    Medium Silver Frame+Syncros headset+setpost collar 3440
    Seat Post (Tompson with titanium bolts) 230
    Seat (WTB Stealth) 230
    Front+Rear Chris King with skewers and lining 1690
    Tires (Specialized 1.95) 950
    Tubes (Torelli) 260
    TOTAL (Kg) 11.869
    (lbs) 26.14317181

    All weights on a digital scale, I weighted multiple components together (e.g. all drivetrain) and then check each component and their sum. Some of the weight are

    FRAME/SHOCK PROTECTION:

    Chain Stay: Multiple layers of white (now black) carbon vinyl. 5 layers give about 20 mils or about 0.5 mm of vinyl, which makes a sturdy protector.
    Head Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    Seat Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    BB: 1 layer of carbon vinyl (under frame)
    Shock: covered in white or black vinyl tape depending on the mood. For winter/rainy riding I use an tire inner tube to enclose the shock.

    ESTHETICS:

    IRD cables are silver and black.
    The ugly top tube cable route is "hidden" in silver mylar as well as the rear der on the seatstay.
    Carbon vinyl is used for frame protection
    Water Bottle holes are covered with small carbon vinyl patch.

    Great job! You really put some effort into that bike. I just built a Spot too. I'm a bit of hack, so my bike doesn't shift as well as I would like, and I'm dialing in the shock and fork.

    The only change I would make is a set of Magura Marta brakes. That reflects my personal love for disc brakes.

    A raceable Spot! Vunderful.....

    Jaybo

  3. #3
    FM
    FM is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,286
    where do you get the carbon vinyl? Is that the stuff you can buy at RC car shops?

    Maybe I'll wrap my shock spring with it, and tell my friends it really is a carbon fiber spring, saves 2lbs over a stock romic!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    where do you get the carbon vinyl? Is that the stuff you can buy at RC car shops?

    Maybe I'll wrap my shock spring with it, and tell my friends it really is a carbon fiber spring, saves 2lbs over a stock romic!
    Check out http://vinyl-effects.com/carbon_fiber.htm

    Great Idea with the spring! If I can only find unobtanium vynil I am sure I could shave off 3 pounds!

    By the way, it is a bit hard to cover the spring with tape (to get rid of the Red).
    I found that teflon plumbing tape (white in the photo) works very well but is fragile, another option is general purpose vynil tape ( http://industrialgeneralstore.com/Vinyl%20Tapes.asp ) which is VERY easy to apply on the spring because it stretches ... Ok, of I go for a ride

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,951
    Cool build, even if not exactly text book. I've always thought it would be cool to build up a lightweight long travel (5 or 6 inches) bike. My ideas centered more around a Maverick fork and air shock and didn't involve v-brakes or 1.95" tires, but to each their own. The alternating wheelset idea is a good one, but would be much easier with disc brakes At any rate that's going to be a super fast bike going both up and down, and that's what matters, right?

  6. #6
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
    Reputation: Acadian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    where do you get the carbon vinyl? Is that the stuff you can buy at RC car shops?

    Maybe I'll wrap my shock spring with it, and tell my friends it really is a carbon fiber spring, saves 2lbs over a stock romic!
    Also some MX shop will cary some. They even sheets of real sticky carbon fiber...I bought some last year and used it on the downtube of my DH bike to protect it from rock chips. Worked great!

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Cool build, even if not exactly text book. I've always thought it would be cool to build up a lightweight long travel (5 or 6 inches) bike. My ideas centered more around a Maverick fork and air shock and didn't involve v-brakes or 1.95" tires, but to each their own. The alternating wheelset idea is a good one, but would be much easier with disc brakes At any rate that's going to be a super fast bike going both up and down, and that's what matters, right?
    Yep, 1.95 are a bit on the small side (maybe, larger tires would add up to 1/2 pound) and V-brakes are certanly retro (although in California ... mud is a small issue and both brakes lock the wheels if I want to ...)

    The Maverick ... I am not sure, I would really wait for some serious testing and I am afraid of double crown forks on my trail bike. I don't want to be there when I fell, the wheel turns around and I have a nice ding on the top tube!!! But, as you say: "to each their own".

    and yes, this thing, thanks to the Romic probably, is fast ... compared to the GT STS uphill is a real breeze, I think I am gaining at least 2-3 gears ...

  8. #8
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    (although in California ... mud is a small issue and both brakes lock the wheels if I want to ...)
    So you don't ride between November and May in the Bay Area or In the Sierras at all?

  9. #9
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
    Reputation: Acadian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    So you don't ride between November and May in the Bay Area or In the Sierras at all?
    I was going to say...if there is a place in the Bay Area that is alwyas dry...please share with us!!

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    Ceramic ...

    [QUOTE=Acadian] I was going to say...if there is a place in the Bay Area that is alwyas dry...please share with us!! [/QUOTE

    Far for wanting to start another discussion of V-brakes vs Disks I must say that I was a bit generous toward disk brakes by somewhat implying that V-brakes do not work well in wet conditions. I ride all year around, rain (with my goretex outfit) or shine (naked, but with elbow guards) and I never had a problem with V-brakes.

    As you can see from the photos I use V-brakes and Ceramic Rims. I use ceramic pads in front and regular pads in the rear because I do not need the extra power in the back (I can lock the rear with "half-finger"). The front provides a lot of modulation and I can lock the wheel if I want to. The V-brakes + ceramic rims work the same in dry or wet conditions.

    The longest personal experience with disks is with a Blur I used for less than a month. It had Hayes disk brakes and to be honest I could not tell the difference in performance my weight 145-150 pounds might be part of the equation.

    PS Great test ride today in GG and Presidio Park, working on the preload/rebound: it is a great bike!
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 05:07 PM.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    Great job! You really put some effort into that bike. I just built a Spot too. I'm a bit of hack, so my bike doesn't shift as well as I would like, and I'm dialing in the shock and fork.

    The only change I would make is a set of Magura Marta brakes. That reflects my personal love for disc brakes.

    A raceable Spot! Vunderful.....

    Jaybo

    After all our past discussions here we are: both owners of a 5 spot, it must mean something

    thanks for the congrats, and good luck with your build. To cheer you up: right now I only have 6-7 speeds working because they shipped me the wrong front der, so I am just using the middle chainring with no der, never attempting to use all gears for fear of dropping the chain ... the 6 speeds do work well ...

    Instead of disk brakes what I would like to try out is some different tires: any suggestion for something not too heavy (say 600 grams top) but larger than my well-performing Specialized 1.95 Team Master/Comtrol 1998
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 05:01 PM.

  12. #12
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    I use ceramic pads in front and regular pads in the rear because I do not need the extra power in the back (I can lock the rear with "half-finger"). The front provides a lot of modulation and I can lock the wheel if I want to. The V-brakes + ceramic rims work the same in dry or wet conditions.
    I want some of what you're smoking.

    I ran ceramic rims and Vs and then ceramic rims and Magura hydro rim brakes before switching to discs.

    There is a dramatic difference between Vs and hydro rim brakes and also a dramatic difference between hydro rim brakes and discs.

    Wet or dry.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    Ops

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    I want some of what you're smoking.

    I ran ceramic rims and Vs and then ceramic rims and Magura hydro rim brakes before switching to discs.

    There is a dramatic difference between Vs and hydro rim brakes and also a dramatic difference between hydro rim brakes and discs.

    Wet or dry.
    ... as I said I do not want to start one of the usual "slippery slope toward insults" "conversations" on disks vs V-brakes vs dragging your feet on the ground (it works!) enjoy your disks as much as I enjoy my Vs
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 07:50 PM.

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... as I said I do not want to start one of the usual "slippery slope toward insults" "conversations" on disks vs V-brakes vs dragging your feet on the ground (it works!) :) enjoy your disks as much as I enjoy my Vs :)
    Ok, so you stick to your fantasy then.

    Let's get back to the original question:

    Where are you riding in Northern California during the Winter/Spring where "mud is a small issue"?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    Mud

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Ok, so you stick to your fantasy then.

    Let's get back to the original question:

    Where are you riding in Northern California during the Winter/Spring where "mud is a small issue"?
    What a charming chap.

    Where I came from (northern Italy), you ride mostly in secondary growth forest from 600 to 3000 feet. The rain season lasts late September to May, the soil has a much higher percent of organic components than the dry soil of most of the Bay Area. and the mud never ever goes away.
    It is thick, glue-like, and especially deep. The stuff that stop motorcycles. I cannot think about any Bay area location even coming close, Headlands, Tam, China Camp, Tilden, Diablo are basically dry with patches of mud. Point Reyes has some trail with some mud, and if you go south of SF there is some good mud in the redwoods, like the lower trails at Butano or the hills between highway 280 and the costline.

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    I cannot think about any Bay area location even coming close, Headlands, Tam, China Camp, Tilden, Diablo are basically dry with patches of mud. Point Reyes has some trail with some mud, and if you go south of SF there is some good mud in the redwoods, like the lower trails at Butano or the hills between highway 280 and the costline.
    Ok, so you've confirmed that you either don't ride in the Winter/Spring or you're just hopelessly clueless.

    I wonder why my bike is so muddy during the Winter?

    Diablo "dry with patches of mud"?

    ROTFLMAO!


    (note: this is the only ridable route when it's wet as the South side of the mountain is heavy adobe clay, as is the Northeastern lower flank)

    Tam "dry with patches of mud"?


    (This is four days after precip stopped and a relatively dry part of the trail)

    Thanks for the laughs!

  17. #17
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,363
    Cool rig. I'm gonna drop 2-3# soon with a Mav fork and maybe try a rear Swinger Air of some flavor. That should get me down to 30ish

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    sigh ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Ok, so you've confirmed that you either don't ride in the Winter/Spring or you're just hopelessly clueless.

    I wonder why my bike is so muddy during the Winter?

    Diablo "dry with patches of mud"?
    ... what a waste of time

  19. #19
    Daniel the Dog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    6,736

    I'm not a real tire expert....

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    After all our past discussions here we are: both owners of a 5 spot, it must mean something

    thanks for the congrats, and good luck with your build. To cheer you up: right now I only have 6-7 speeds working because they shipped me the wrong front der, so I am just using the middle chainring with no der, never attempting to use all gears for fear of dropping the chain ... the 6 speeds do work well ...

    Instead of disk brakes what I would like to try out is some different tires: any suggestion for something not too heavy (say 600 grams top) but larger than my well-performing Specialized 1.95 Team Master/Comtrol 1998
    However, I must admit, I never pay over $20 for a tire. Only buy on sale. I'm running IRC Backcountry this winter. They are okay. A bit slippery on rocks and roots. I'm interested in the new Specialized Roll X tires. Too bad they cost $80 for a pair.

    Yep. The Spot is a very fun bike.

    Jaybo

  20. #20
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... what a waste of time
    Nah, folks who post silly things like "The V-brakes + ceramic rims work the same in dry or wet conditions" and "although in California ... mud is a small issue" and Diablo et al are "dry with patches of mud" aren't a waste of time.

    They are entertaining, in a funny kind of way.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: miles e's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,951
    Unlike Jaybo, tires are one place I'm not afraid to splurge, since the difference between the clearance models and the most expensive ones you can find is what, like $20/wheel? Compare that to forks, which can vary by up to $500 between last year's model and the current ones. Anyway, I put some 2.5" Kenda Nevegal kevlar bead (Stick-E rubber) on last fall and wouldn't trade them for anything. Probably a bit much for you at 840 grams a piece, but the 2.1" in the Nevegal or Blue Groove is closer to 600 grams I believe. Kenda's tend to truer to the stated size than say, Conti's, whose 2.3" Vertical Pro is more like a 2.1" but also around 600 grams. A dark horse contender might be the new Bontrager ACX (not the old AC), which comes in a 2.2" version in the 600 gram neighborhood.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    sorry for the misunderstanding. To clarify: I meant to say that you are the waste of time, and apparently you also love to waste your time taking mud photos. Very interesting and very consistent in a muddy way. If I may, I would suggest that you go to some reall muddy place (maybe Calistoga) and take a mud bath with your Turner, than you can post a "mud-pit" series and show everybody what real mud is! "A man his Turner and his mud" can be the title.

    Looking forward the photo series, goodby for now on
    Last edited by Davide; 03-11-2004 at 01:47 PM. Reason: mud #II (wow!)

  23. #23
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    sorry for the misunderstanding. To clarify: I meant to say that you are the waste of time, and apparently you also love to waste your time taking mud photos.
    How ironic, especially when one considers the source (the guy who posts mundane pictures of his anorexic frankenbike with an exhaustive, and somewhat goofy, list of parts).

    I'm more than happy to takes photos/videos of you riding Diablo, Black Diamond, Briones, Pleasanton Ridge, etc. after the next bout of rain.

    They would be quite amusing, and dispell your silly fantasy that these places are "dry, with patches of mud."

    p.s. photography is also a hobby to it's hardly a waste of time, just like riding while taking a photo isn't a wste of time.

  24. #24
    banned
    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,258

    Hope sorry, but what's the point in 25 lbs?

    I don't get it. Does the thought of "the lightest 5-Spot around" give you a woody?

    Why would you want to make a 25-lb 5"/5" bike? Seems to me there's no point in 5" of travel if your goal is lightness... and please, don't bring the Maverick into this... I don't wanna piss Pete off!

    What conditions warrant 5" travel at an uberlight weight? What 5" travel bike at 25lbs will hold up to repeated banging using the full 5" of travel?

    Nerds, pocket protector geeks, weight weenies, etc. rejoice. Your new hero is Davide. He's making a useless 5-Spot out of a perfectly decent 5-Spot frame. Congrats Davide for defying logic and sense.

  25. #25
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
    Reputation: Acadian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    I don't get it. Does the thought of "the lightest 5-Spot around" give you a woody?

    Why would you want to make a 25-lb 5"/5" bike? Seems to me there's no point in 5" of travel if your goal is lightness... and please, don't bring the Maverick into this... I don't wanna piss Pete off!

    What conditions warrant 5" travel at an uberlight weight? What 5" travel bike at 25lbs will hold up to repeated banging using the full 5" of travel?

    Nerds, pocket protector geeks, weight weenies, etc. rejoice. Your new hero is Davide. He's making a useless 5-Spot out of a perfectly decent 5-Spot frame. Congrats Davide for defying logic and sense.
    oh trust me on this one...I visit my bike shop on a regular basis and I've seen stranger builds! I guess it’s whatever floats your boat. My tail bike right now must be like frekkin’ 35+ lbs, MRP with single ring and I still hang with the best of em’ on the climbs…but I wouldn’t mind having a tad lighter rig!!

    The 5 spot give me wood…I would love to get one eventually, but it wouldn’t be setup light, but more for epics, Downieville, skeggs, etc… Fragile lightweight bike are not ideal for those type of trails! You might get away with it, but sure would take some fun out of it in my opinion.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    I'm more than happy to takes photos/videos of you riding Diablo, Black Diamond, Briones, Pleasanton Ridge, etc. after the next bout of rain.

    They would be quite amusing, and dispell your silly fantasy that these places are "dry, with patches of mud."
    If I had to guess he has never ridden Diablo or Shell ridge when you have to carry your bike because the mud has packed up so bad that you can't even roll it, much less spent hours after trying to clean it off. Not that I would know anything about that while I sit in my office staring out at Briones and wishing it was Saturday already.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    452

    I'm confused

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    I don't get it. Does the thought of "the lightest 5-Spot around" give you a woody?

    Why would you want to make a 25-lb 5"/5" bike? Seems to me there's no point in 5" of travel if your goal is lightness... and please, don't bring the Maverick into this... I don't wanna piss Pete off!

    What conditions warrant 5" travel at an uberlight weight? What 5" travel bike at 25lbs will hold up to repeated banging using the full 5" of travel?

    Nerds, pocket protector geeks, weight weenies, etc. rejoice. Your new hero is Davide. He's making a useless 5-Spot out of a perfectly decent 5-Spot frame. Congrats Davide for defying logic and sense.
    What are you trying to say?

    What's wrong with a 25 pound 5" travel bike? A 150 pound rider on a 25 pound bike is the equivalent of a 225 pound rider on a 37 pound bike (rider weight:bike weight). I haven't seen one post where anyone said that a 37 pound bike is too light for a 225 pound rider.

    Granted, I wouldn't choose the components that Davide chose.....but who cares? I prefer disc brakes, but half of my rides are on a bike that uses rim brakes...and I ride all year long. If I'm going somewhere where it's terribly muddy....I'll take the disc equiped bike. What did everyone do before disc brakes? Stay home? I know that I rode my rim brake bikes all year long.

    Personally, I wouldn't put an air shock on the Spot, but that's not what everyone is complaining about....it's the weight. I see nothing wrong with making a bike light, especially when the rider is very light himself.

  28. #28
    banned
    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,258

    point missed, pretty well completely

    Quote Originally Posted by WarrGuru
    What are you trying to say? I see nothing wrong with making a bike light, especially when the rider is very light himself.
    What I'm trying to say is this:

    1) what's the reason for more travel?

    2) what's the reason for lightness?

    3) how do you reconcile those two reasons in one bike?

    What my answers are:

    1) to go faster and bigger through rough terrain

    2) to be able to climb and ride with maximum speed and minimal effort.

    3) you can't. a light bike won't hold up under "faster and bigger through rough terrain."

    What my conclusion is:

    An ultralight bike with 5" travel is pointless. If you're concerned about weight, get a 3" travel FS XC racer. If you want 5" travel for fast riding through techie terrain, the bike won't hold up with ultralight parts. The 5-Spot isn't designed to be an ultralight XC racer. Ask Turner. He'll tell you the 5-Spot is a **slightly** lighter version of the RFX, minus one inch of travel.

    A 5"/5" "ultralight" bike is pointless if you ask me. But I actually ride my bikes. I don't just build them, weigh them, photograph them and post them on MTBR.

    What do I weigh? 155 lbs. Just a tad more than Davide.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    452

    OK. I see your point

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    What I'm trying to say is this:

    1) what's the reason for more travel?

    2) what's the reason for lightness?

    3) how do you reconcile those two reasons in one bike?

    What my answers are:

    1) to go faster and bigger through rough terrain

    2) to be able to climb and ride with maximum speed and minimal effort.

    3) you can't. a light bike won't hold up under "faster and bigger through rough terrain."

    What my conclusion is:

    An ultralight bike with 5" travel is pointless. If you're concerned about weight, get a 3" travel FS XC racer. If you want 5" travel for fast riding through techie terrain, the bike won't hold up with ultralight parts. The 5-Spot isn't designed to be an ultralight XC racer. Ask Turner. He'll tell you the 5-Spot is a **slightly** lighter version of the RFX, minus one inch of travel.

    A 5"/5" "ultralight" bike is pointless if you ask me. But I actually ride my bikes. I don't just build them, weigh them, photograph them and post them on MTBR.

    What do I weigh? 155 lbs. Just a tad more than Davide.
    I don't agree with it.....but I think I understand where you are coming from.

    I don't agree with it.....but I think I understand where you are coming from.

    Let me provide a different set of answers to your questions

    1) what's the reason for more travel?

    2) what's the reason for lightness?

    3) how do you reconcile those two reasons in one bike?

    What my answers are:

    1) to go just as fast and big as before, but with more comfort....through rough terrain

    2) to be able to climb and ride with maximum speed and minimal effort.

    3) Easy to reconcile. His bike will most likely be a better climber than a 31 pound bike and it will be more plush and comfortable than a shorter travel bike.

    What my conclusion is:

    An ultralight bike with 5" travel will be better for long climbs than a much heavier bike. It won't be as nice on the downhills as a heavier Spot, but will be better than a 3 or 4" travel bike.

    My personal preference is similar to yours. I ride my Spot with a friggin heavy 2003 Z1FR at slightly over 5.5 pounds. I like my Spot set up heavy, but I won't disparage anyone from making it light. The Intense 5.5 is a very light bike with even more travel than the spot. It's designed for use with air shocks. I wouldn't buy that bike, but wouldn't disparage anyone for doing so.
    Last edited by WarrGuru; 03-11-2004 at 05:24 PM. Reason: wasn't finished typing

  30. #30
    banned
    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,258
    I see your point, but I disagree quite strongly with the notion that someone who actually uses 5" of travel regularly in tough terrain can expect an underspec'd bike to hold up.

    I learned this lesson quite well when I set up an Ells Isis for "light freeride" and made it weigh 28 lbs w/ Fox Vanilla R coil in rear. What happened? wheels didn't stay true, tires flatted, etc. XC stem and bar flexed like crazy.

    Maybe Davide's terrain is baby-arse smooth, and that's how the parts will hold up. If that's the case, there's utterly no reason to have 5" travel front OR rear.

    I just think it's silly to buy a frame made for relative burliness, and then emasculate it with parts that will fold up under normal use... especially wheels & tires.

    Again, I'm 155 lbs and I ride smoothly but very fast and over quite rough terrain. I wouldn't try to build a 5-Spot at any weight less than 28 lbs or so. My X-5 (which I got because I got tired of waiting for a 5-Spot) is about 31-32 lbs in riding shape. I could lose a few pounds with single-ply XC tires and a Manitou Swinger air shock in the rear, but then the bike would be essentially a XC racer with a too-heavy frame. And the too-heavy frame's extra weight (extra burliness) goes unused, essentially.

    My point is simpler, really. If you want a 25-lb FS rig, you should be looking at bikes designed at that weight. I'd look at a Ventana El Saltamontes, or a Specialized FSR XC race rig.

  31. #31
    Stand back
    Reputation: dbabuser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,157
    I didn't see anywhere what kind of rims are on it, but guess nothing on the build list looks stupid light, as in would break and leave you stranded somewhere. I think the "tuned" stuff is kind of funny, but if it makes you feel better to ride a bike that's just under 26lbs than one that's just over, I guess it works. The tape everywhere, tho, that is fairly odd. The tape on the shock spring, especially. Is that just for the photo shoot? Appears dirt is gonna stick to the inside and undo most of your tuning efforts...

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Duncan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    464
    No matter what you are putting on your bikes, at least you guys are all capable of doing your mechanical stuff and setting up the bike to fit exactly what you want.

    I'm totally crap with most aspects of building and maintaining bikes, and I just rely on my bike mechanic brother (who originally recommended the 5 Spot but now lives in faraway England) or by giving helpless doewy-eyed looks to friendly Korean mechanics who do a good job for free.

    Just one question Davide. The 'UR' sticker. Was this an intentional removal of the other letters or a further example of tURner's dodgy stickers?

    Cheers, Duncan

  33. #33
    Roy
    Roy is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,013

    Here's something you don't read every day....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    How ironic, especially when one considers the source (the guy who posts mundane pictures of his anorexic frankenbike with an exhaustive, and somewhat goofy, list of parts).

    I'm more than happy to takes photos/videos of you riding Diablo, Black Diamond, Briones, Pleasanton Ridge, etc. after the next bout of rain.

    They would be quite amusing, and dispell your silly fantasy that these places are "dry, with patches of mud."

    p.s. photography is also a hobby to it's hardly a waste of time, just like riding while taking a photo isn't a wste of time.
    It's not often when Pete gets rattled and his quarry keeps his cool; let alone a pawn of Davide's caliber....

  34. #34
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    It's not often when Pete gets rattled and his quarry keeps his cool; let alone a pawn of Davide's caliber....
    Rattled?

    Bwahahahaha.

    I'm still laughing my ass off, as I have been from the start.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete


    hey Pete, how did you take this picture?

  36. #36
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    Why would you want to make a 25-lb 5"/5" bike? Seems to me there's no point in 5" of travel if your goal is lightness... and please, don't bring the Maverick into this... I don't wanna piss Pete off!
    Hey, lay off the fork. The weight is a secondary feature. It's the stiffness that makes that thing so groovy.

    Like almost as rigid as my 888, if I do say so.

    29ish pound trail bike without any goofy stickers, wannabe xc racer tires, or home made mylar condoms.

  37. #37
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Biandon
    hey Pete, how did you take this picture?
    I rode down the singletrack with my camera in my right hand and snapped the picture.

  38. #38
    banned
    Reputation: gonzostrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,258

    speaking of that 888

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Hey, lay off the fork. The weight is a secondary feature. It's the stiffness that makes that thing so groovy.

    Like almost as rigid as my 888, if I do say so.

    29ish pound trail bike without any goofy stickers, wannabe xc racer tires, or home made mylar condoms.
    so how much time have you spent on the Fly? what do you think of it?

    and what's with the mylar condom thing anyway?

    think I'm gonna go create an "ultimate Ventana X-5" post, demonstrating the ability to theoretically turn my X-5 into a 23-lb racing machine. do I have to use a drivetrain? does it have to be able to get traction off-road? does the "suspension" actually have to work? tune in next week.

    hey when are ya gonna update your site with some new vids?

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    I rode down the singletrack with my camera in my right hand and snapped the picture.
    Pete, you bring out your digital slr in the mud? How do you protect the camera during the rest of the ride? I average 3 over-the-handlebars per ride...

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    Thanks both (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Unlike Jaybo, tires are one place I'm not afraid to splurge, since the difference between the clearance models and the most expensive ones you can find is what, like $20/wheel? Compare that to forks, which can vary by up to $500 between last year's model and the current ones. Anyway, I put some 2.5" Kenda Nevegal kevlar bead (Stick-E rubber) on last fall and wouldn't trade them for anything. Probably a bit much for you at 840 grams a piece, but the 2.1" in the Nevegal or Blue Groove is closer to 600 grams I believe. Kenda's tend to truer to the stated size than say, Conti's, whose 2.3" Vertical Pro is more like a 2.1" but also around 600 grams. A dark horse contender might be the new Bontrager ACX (not the old AC), which comes in a 2.2" version in the 600 gram neighborhood.
    thanks to both of you, Jaybo and Miles, for the suggestions. I am quite closer to Jaybo in my tire habits: I always bought last year tires at discount and that is why I have a trackload of 1998 (or 1999 who knows) Specialized (they do work well) ... I even have Tioga Psycho in my basement (what will I do with those ...). But Miles has a point: tires are not that expensive compared to everything else and it might be fun to experiment a bit more than every 5 years

    Now some more general comments and some indirect replies to some of the posts below :

    The nice thing of the set up I described is that it can be the foundation for a great convertible: my goal is to own one mountain bike that can wear a couple of hats with minor modifications.

    5" Travel? There is little new about a 5" bike: what has changed is the quality of the travel! Best example? I have been on a 4.75" bike for the last 7 years, and 4.5-5.5" bikes have been on the market for a very long time (just think switchblade). I love to have 5" back/front because, at my weight, it let me do almost everything I dare doing. The difference is efficiency. I have still limited experience here, because I had the bike for a week, but at my weight the Romic seems to move very little seated or standing. Same story with the Blur, 4.5" and exceptional efficiency uphill. And I am sure it is the same story with many bikes out. My GT STS, by comparison, stops uphill!

    WEIGHT SAVINGS: Some people below object to the weight of the rig, I think that it just shows how people get cought up in categories: "a 3" can be light but a 5" cannot be light bike because it does not make sense etc etc". One rides what works for his/her needs, not a travel category or a marketing label. I am 145 pounds and saving 2-3 pounds of weight may be significant. Starting light also gives me the option of having a "marathon" rig (something to use for longish > 2-3 up to my longest 5 hours rides), all the way to a "freeride" (whatever that means) one to use for daring or shorter rides. I am the first one to say that saving weight is often overated. Often times it is just for fun, although I am pretty sure that there is a difference in performance between a 25 and 35 rig!

    Anyway, I will probably not go for the 25 pounds bike option, or at least not until air shocks are as easy to tune as a coil shocks. It is tempting to lose another pound+ but I just love the simplicity of coil shocks front and back ... maybe I am just old fashion again and I should give a air shock a good try, maybe when the new Foxes hit the market next year.

    For now I can see going the other way, using larger tires, changing pedals and maybe using a front 8" disk (not 6", that would offer relatively little advantage, if any, in respect to v-brakes) to have the option of a more aggressive rig. The total weight would be in the 27-28 pounds range, still light enough for me, and I would have a bike that I could push more.


    Final comment:
    The 5-spot, by the way, is very far from being a freeride machine. For example, the difference in weight between a Blur and a 5-spot is around half-pound (the medium blur is roughly 5.9 with a 280 grams shock, the Blur is 7.25 with a 700 grams one). So one might turn some of the comments below around and ask why rigging up 35 pounds 5-spots? (or if one is as nice as some of the people down there politely ask "why are you so facking idiotic to put downhill components of a cross-country frame") But this is a free-country, at least for a while longer, and obviously some people like the idea to have extra-heavy-duty bullet-proof components on a light "all-mountain" frame ...
    Last edited by Davide; 03-12-2004 at 04:41 PM.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    165

    East Coast

    Last summer it rained 63 out of 90 days. It just became natural. It was fun. I hope this summer mother nature is a little kinder. There was maybe 1 week of super dry trails. That is pushing it. As we all said , just deal with what we have.

  42. #42
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Biandon
    Pete, you bring out your digital slr in the mud? How do you protect the camera during the rest of the ride? I average 3 over-the-handlebars per ride...
    When I ride with my DSLR in the mud, I just throw it in my hydro pack.

    However, that picture was taken with a Nikon 995.

  43. #43
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    so how much time have you spent on the Fly? what do you think of it?

    hey when are ya gonna update your site with some new vids?
    I've spent a decent amount of time on the Fly and I dig it. Piggish, but fun. Still clime-able, but on really steep tech stuff the fork is a hindrance due to the height. I've got drop crowns coming that should help a bunch.

    New vids when I shoot some more footage which should be after this weekend.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    452

    I wasn't finished

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    I see your point, but I disagree quite strongly with the notion that someone who actually uses 5" of travel regularly in tough terrain can expect an underspec'd bike to hold up.

    I learned this lesson quite well when I set up an Ells Isis for "light freeride" and made it weigh 28 lbs w/ Fox Vanilla R coil in rear. What happened? wheels didn't stay true, tires flatted, etc. XC stem and bar flexed like crazy.

    Maybe Davide's terrain is baby-arse smooth, and that's how the parts will hold up. If that's the case, there's utterly no reason to have 5" travel front OR rear.

    I just think it's silly to buy a frame made for relative burliness, and then emasculate it with parts that will fold up under normal use... especially wheels & tires.

    Again, I'm 155 lbs and I ride smoothly but very fast and over quite rough terrain. I wouldn't try to build a 5-Spot at any weight less than 28 lbs or so. My X-5 (which I got because I got tired of waiting for a 5-Spot) is about 31-32 lbs in riding shape. I could lose a few pounds with single-ply XC tires and a Manitou Swinger air shock in the rear, but then the bike would be essentially a XC racer with a too-heavy frame. And the too-heavy frame's extra weight (extra burliness) goes unused, essentially.

    My point is simpler, really. If you want a 25-lb FS rig, you should be looking at bikes designed at that weight. I'd look at a Ventana El Saltamontes, or a Specialized FSR XC race rig.
    posting when you answered. I accidentally hit the save button.

    ANyway...I guess I agree with your basic philosophy about bikes and weights. I just don't agree with the disparaging remarks about Davide not riding much or "baby-arse smooth" terrain. I don't know Davide. In fact, he and I butted heads some time ago in this forum (the old forum, actually). This was back when Davide was anti Turner....no bike is worth the cost....blah, blah, blah.

    Davide hasn't pulled that crap in some time. He appears to be posting information about his new ride because he's really excited about it. I thought that he did mention that he test rode a 5 Spot prior to purchase, so he'll have an idea what the difference is between a stock (read heavier)

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    Mud #3

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    It's not often when Pete gets rattled and his quarry keeps his cool; let alone a pawn of Davide's caliber....
    There is an interesting category of people that are always saying just one thing: "I am right you are wrong".

    It can be mud, or what components you use, or what brakes, or you daring to say that a $1900 for a frame IS overpriced, you could even agree with them and they would just call you names and insisting that you are wrong.

    I am sure you have met a few out there

  46. #46
    banned
    Reputation: Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    There is an interesting category of people that are always saying just one thing: "I am right you are wrong".

    It can be mud, or what components you use, or what brakes, or you daring to say that a $1900 for a frame IS overpriced, you could even agree with them and they would just call you names and insisting that you are wrong.
    There is an interesting category of people who "talk" out of their ass, frequently.

    You are one of those amusing people.

    For instance, there is this one weight weiner/sticker freak who claims that:

    "although in California ... mud is a small issue"

    "Headlands, Tam, China Camp, Tilden, Diablo are basically dry with patches of mud."

    ...as well as claims the following:

    "I see a fair amount of mud because I ride regularly through the wet California "winter":"

    "just back from a nice "muddy" bike ride"

    "...perfect muddy conditions at around 50-60F.
    "Where do I ride: San Francisco (GG and Presidio), Marin epics (e.g. start GG south tower, cross over the bridge, go left -> all the way to headlands --> all the way (all the way!) to top of Mont Tam an back to south GG tower by a similar route), China Camp, Tilden, and east Tilden waterreservoires, Point Reyes"

    It seems that this weight weiner is pathological liar...

    He should quit while he is behind, but I doubt he has the sense to.

  47. #47
    Tonight we ride.
    Reputation: fonseca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    770

    Sticking to your guns eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... here we are: after 7 years my GT STS in is semi-retirement and the 5 spot is built!
    Davide Jan-12-04, 06:54 PM
    "Bye Bye MTBR"
    I am sorry but the new forum are just horrible and so I'll stop wasting so much of mine (and especially yours!) time in front of a computer!

    I really enjoyed all the chat, the occasional smile and all the info. Even the insults since most of the time I knew that they would not have taken place in person.

    Too bad ... I would have liked to post the build of my 5-spot, but I guess that my ego will have to take a back seat!

    ciao a tutti
    Davide


    Not that I'm suprised. After all, you now own a 5-spot ofter how many months of slamming the bike and trolling on the old forums? Oh the irony.

    I can't believe you're sticking with a heavy coil shock considering all the other "improvements".

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by fonseca
    Davide Jan-12-04, 06:54 PM
    "Bye Bye MTBR"
    I am sorry but the new forum are just horrible and so I'll stop wasting so much of mine (and especially yours!) time in front of a computer!

    I really enjoyed all the chat, the occasional smile and all the info. Even the insults since most of the time I knew that they would not have taken place in person.

    Too bad ... I would have liked to post the build of my 5-spot, but I guess that my ego will have to take a back seat!

    ciao a tutti
    Davide


    Not that I'm suprised. After all, you now own a 5-spot ofter how many months of slamming the bike and trolling on the old forums? Oh the irony.

    I can't believe you're sticking with a heavy coil shock considering all the other "improvements".
    It is so nice to have a biographer at my relatively early age, I am so flattered

    If I may. You might want to take a class in "Biography Reference Sources", a good english department should offer one, to improve your accuracy in researching facts. Or you might want to look into a few scholarly efforts. Alan Walker and his wonderful work on Franz Liszt comes to mind (ISBN: 0-8014-9721-3). Good research skills are the foundation for a good biographer, and you could certanly use some more skill in your research.

    But otherwise, thank you, it is so nice to see that immature sixteen years olds are finding clever ways to occupy their time. Keep up your good work
    Last edited by Davide; 03-14-2004 at 09:48 AM.

  49. #49
    Baked Alaskan
    Reputation: AK Chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,812

    hate to pile on...

    [QUOTE=Davide]There is an interesting category of people that are always saying just one thing: "I am right you are wrong".

    It can be mud, or what components you use, or what brakes, or you daring to say that a $1900 for a frame IS overpriced, you could even agree with them and they would just call you names and insisting that you are wrong. [QUOTE]

    ... but you did spend a lot of time giving all us 5-spot owners a lot of crap about an overpriced frame with an inferior design to the Blur, that doesn't ride as well as everyone said it did, and that we were just gushing about our purchases in an effort to justify spending the amount of money we did on our rides.

    And now you own one.

    Now I'll admit Pete rattled me once too, but you have to expect some backlash after hammering Turner riders for so long.

    p.s. IMHO, with your setup, skinny tires and V's, a Burner would have been a better choice. Enjoy the ride.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Davide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by AK Chris

    ... but you did spend a lot of time giving all us 5-spot owners a lot of crap about an overpriced frame with an inferior design to the Blur, that doesn't ride as well as everyone said it did, and that we were just gushing about our purchases in an effort to justify spending the amount of money we did on our rides.

    And now you own one.

    Now I'll admit Pete rattled me once too, but you have to expect some backlash after hammering Turner riders for so long.

    p.s. IMHO, with your setup, skinny tires and V's, a Burner would have been a better choice. Enjoy the ride.
    Hi Chris, nice to hear from you.

    Just to clarify (if anybody cares besides us ...). I don't think I ever said the 5-spot is an inferior design or that the 5-spot does not ride well. Most of the discussions were about the hype sorrounding the bike (magic pivot locations, telephatic steering etc ...), and a lot was about people trashing the VPP. I am sure I was out of line a few times, and I apologized back then.

    Why the 5-spot: I bought the 5-spot because: (1) it is designed around a 5" fork (2) has rear V-brake (3) coil shock and (4) I got a good price. I would have bought a Blur if it was designed around a 5"+coil shock. Down to the last minute I was considering a Ventana or a Sycip/Ventana but the price differential was more than I was willing to spend .

    Overpricing: I still think that the frame is overpriced. A more proper retail should be around $1500 (we are getting there, mine was somewhat remotely close to that number). But it is not just Turner, all botique bikes are overpriced. Quality of the Turner is good, but, in my opinion of course, not as good as Ventana or Titus.

    Set up: please read my post close to the top. The 25-26 pounds V-brake is supposed to be my "marathon" set up. A 27-28 pounds with front 8" disk brake will probably be my "aggressive" set up.

    thanks for your "auguri" I will enjoy the ride and I think this is enough replies ... I'll post back in a month at the end of my testing period on the 5-spot ...
    Last edited by Davide; 03-14-2004 at 01:41 PM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Romic or Swinger 4way coil for 5 Spot
    By Alpenglow in forum Turner
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-19-2004, 07:20 PM
  2. question for small 5 Spot owners
    By Uzzi in forum Turner
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-22-2004, 08:33 AM
  3. Help me spec my 5 Spot!
    By blippo_uk in forum Turner
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-11-2004, 10:13 PM
  4. 5 Spot - first ride, some thoughts
    By cooldaddy in forum Turner
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-09-2004, 12:09 PM
  5. finally appreciating the 5 Spot
    By Duncan in forum Turner
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-01-2004, 06:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •