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  1. #1
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    25 pounds 5 Spot

    ... here we are: after 7 years my GT STS in is semi-retirement and the 5 spot is built!

    I took it out a few times (it works fine) and I will post a report in a month with a comparison with the Blur (I spent 3 weeks on one this winter). For now I hope you like the bike that has quite a lot of attention to detail and esthetics, and have fun with the fairly irrelevant weight issue.

    PS some of the details (especially the front der!) on the bike are not final this is a pre-first-ride riding photo session.
    PS PS I am quite of a no-logo person, the cheap Turner decals had to go (thanks god they where not laser etched) but I left an UR, which suggests the UR-bike nature of the 5 spot?
    PS PS PS thanks to hammerhead bikes for shipping the frame

    WEIGHT. The frame with installed headset (130 grams) brake bosses, and seat collar is 3440. The shock is heavy at 699 grams. The spring is a 450 lbs 2.25" and it is 345 grams. The longer spring (If I am not mistaken the 2003 shipped with a 2" spring) might explain some of the small weight increase of 2004 vs 2003 models: 1/4" length is about 40 grams more.

    Total weight is a bit more than 26 lbs, in a trim that is almost perfect for my style of riding. Sub 25 lbs are VERY possible with an air shock (- 1 lbs) a long travel air fork (- .3 pounds) and lighter wheels (- .3 pounds, my Chris King are 32 and not very light). The sturdier build I would consider adds at most 2/3 pounds (heavier tires and maybe larger pedals).

    Not bad: a convertible 5 spot can go from < 25 to 27 pounds ...

    Now the boring details:

    Brakes Complete (Vuelta Mag tuned all bolts included) 266
    Levers (Tuned Vuelta Mag) 142
    brake booster (Shimano Carbon) 55
    BB TNT Titanium 158
    Race Face LP 170 mm with rings titanium/aluminum bolts 662
    Pedals Frog titanium 205
    Rear Der Sachs Tuned 199
    Front Der 130
    XT Cassette 12-32 300
    Chain 300
    Grips (cut) 70
    HandleBar Maxm 26" 160
    Shifters (Sachs R, cut Attack L) 120
    Cables 120
    Stem 120 (KORE Elite titanium bolts) 195
    Marz Z1 2001 (including cup) 1987 Note: this is a 2001 Z1 with 30mm stanchions
    Medium Silver Frame+Syncros headset+setpost collar 3440
    Seat Post (Tompson with titanium bolts) 230
    Seat (WTB Stealth) 230
    Front+Rear Chris King with skewers and lining 1690
    Tires (Specialized 1.95) 950
    Tubes (Torelli) 260
    TOTAL (Kg) 11.869
    (lbs) 26.14317181

    All weights on a digital scale, I weighted multiple components together (e.g. all drivetrain) and then check each component and their sum.

    FRAME/SHOCK PROTECTION:

    Chain Stay: Multiple layers of white (now black) carbon vinyl. 5 layers give about 20 mils or about 0.5 mm of vinyl, which makes a sturdy protector.
    Head Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    Seat Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    BB: 1 layer of carbon vinyl (under frame)
    Shock: covered in white or black vinyl tape depending on the mood. For winter/rainy riding I use an tire inner tube to enclose the shock.

    ESTHETICS:

    IRD cables are silver and black.
    The ugly top tube cable route is "hidden" in silver mylar as well as the rear der on the seatstay.
    Carbon vinyl is used for frame protection
    Water Bottle holes are covered with small carbon vinyl patch.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 10:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Daniel the Dog
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    Very cool bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... here we are: after 7 years my GT STS in is semi-retirement and the 5 spot is built!

    I took it out a few times (it works fine) but I will post a report in a month with a full comparison with the Blur (I spent 3 weeks on one this winter). For now I hope you like the bike, that has quite a lot of attention to detail and esthetics, and have fun with the fairly irrelevant weight issue (thanks to hammerhead bikes for shipping the frame).

    PS some of the details (especially the front der!) on the bike are not final this is a pre-first-ride riding photo session.
    PS PS I am quite of a no-logo person, the cheap Turner decals had to go (thanks god they where not laser etched) but I left an UR, which suggests the UR-bike nature of the 5 spot?

    WEIGHT. The frame with installed headset (130 grams) brake bosses, and seat collar is 3440. The shock is heavy at 699 grams. The spring is a 450 lbs 2.25" and it is 345 grams. The longer spring (If I am not mistaken the 2003 shipped with a 2" spring) might explain some of the weight increase of 2004 vs 2003 models: 1/4" length is about 40 grams more.

    Total weight is a bit more than 26 lbs, in a trim that is almost perfect for my style of riding. Sub 25 lbs are VERY possible with an air shock (- 1 lbs) a long travel air fork (- .3 pounds) and lighter wheels (- .3 pounds, my Chris King are 32 and not very light). The sturdier build I would consider adds at most 2/3 pounds (heavier tires and maybe larger pedals).

    Not bad: a convertible 5 spot can go from < 25 to 27 pounds ...

    Now the boring details:

    Brakes Complete (Vuelta Mag tuned all bolts included) 266
    Levers (Tuned Vuelta Mag) 142
    brake booster (Shimano Carbon) 55
    BB TNT Titanium 158
    Race Face LP 170 mm with rings titanium/aluminum bolts 662
    Pedals Frog titanium 205
    Rear Der Sachs Tuned 199
    Front Der 130
    XT Cassette 12-32 300
    Chain 300
    Grips (cut) 70
    HandleBar Maxm 26" 160
    Shifters (Sachs R, cut Attack L) 120
    Cables 120
    Stem 120 (KORE Elite titanium bolts) 195
    Marz Z1 2001 (including cup) 1987 Note: this is a 2001 Z1 with 30mm stanchions
    Medium Silver Frame+Syncros headset+setpost collar 3440
    Seat Post (Tompson with titanium bolts) 230
    Seat (WTB Stealth) 230
    Front+Rear Chris King with skewers and lining 1690
    Tires (Specialized 1.95) 950
    Tubes (Torelli) 260
    TOTAL (Kg) 11.869
    (lbs) 26.14317181

    All weights on a digital scale, I weighted multiple components together (e.g. all drivetrain) and then check each component and their sum. Some of the weight are

    FRAME/SHOCK PROTECTION:

    Chain Stay: Multiple layers of white (now black) carbon vinyl. 5 layers give about 20 mils or about 0.5 mm of vinyl, which makes a sturdy protector.
    Head Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    Seat Tube cable route: One layer of carbon vinyl
    BB: 1 layer of carbon vinyl (under frame)
    Shock: covered in white or black vinyl tape depending on the mood. For winter/rainy riding I use an tire inner tube to enclose the shock.

    ESTHETICS:

    IRD cables are silver and black.
    The ugly top tube cable route is "hidden" in silver mylar as well as the rear der on the seatstay.
    Carbon vinyl is used for frame protection
    Water Bottle holes are covered with small carbon vinyl patch.

    Great job! You really put some effort into that bike. I just built a Spot too. I'm a bit of hack, so my bike doesn't shift as well as I would like, and I'm dialing in the shock and fork.

    The only change I would make is a set of Magura Marta brakes. That reflects my personal love for disc brakes.

    A raceable Spot! Vunderful.....

    Jaybo

  3. #3
    FM
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    where do you get the carbon vinyl? Is that the stuff you can buy at RC car shops?

    Maybe I'll wrap my shock spring with it, and tell my friends it really is a carbon fiber spring, saves 2lbs over a stock romic!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    where do you get the carbon vinyl? Is that the stuff you can buy at RC car shops?

    Maybe I'll wrap my shock spring with it, and tell my friends it really is a carbon fiber spring, saves 2lbs over a stock romic!
    Check out http://vinyl-effects.com/carbon_fiber.htm

    Great Idea with the spring! If I can only find unobtanium vynil I am sure I could shave off 3 pounds!

    By the way, it is a bit hard to cover the spring with tape (to get rid of the Red).
    I found that teflon plumbing tape (white in the photo) works very well but is fragile, another option is general purpose vynil tape ( http://industrialgeneralstore.com/Vinyl%20Tapes.asp ) which is VERY easy to apply on the spring because it stretches ... Ok, of I go for a ride

  5. #5
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    Cool build, even if not exactly text book. I've always thought it would be cool to build up a lightweight long travel (5 or 6 inches) bike. My ideas centered more around a Maverick fork and air shock and didn't involve v-brakes or 1.95" tires, but to each their own. The alternating wheelset idea is a good one, but would be much easier with disc brakes At any rate that's going to be a super fast bike going both up and down, and that's what matters, right?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    where do you get the carbon vinyl? Is that the stuff you can buy at RC car shops?

    Maybe I'll wrap my shock spring with it, and tell my friends it really is a carbon fiber spring, saves 2lbs over a stock romic!
    Also some MX shop will cary some. They even sheets of real sticky carbon fiber...I bought some last year and used it on the downtube of my DH bike to protect it from rock chips. Worked great!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Cool build, even if not exactly text book. I've always thought it would be cool to build up a lightweight long travel (5 or 6 inches) bike. My ideas centered more around a Maverick fork and air shock and didn't involve v-brakes or 1.95" tires, but to each their own. The alternating wheelset idea is a good one, but would be much easier with disc brakes At any rate that's going to be a super fast bike going both up and down, and that's what matters, right?
    Yep, 1.95 are a bit on the small side (maybe, larger tires would add up to 1/2 pound) and V-brakes are certanly retro (although in California ... mud is a small issue and both brakes lock the wheels if I want to ...)

    The Maverick ... I am not sure, I would really wait for some serious testing and I am afraid of double crown forks on my trail bike. I don't want to be there when I fell, the wheel turns around and I have a nice ding on the top tube!!! But, as you say: "to each their own".

    and yes, this thing, thanks to the Romic probably, is fast ... compared to the GT STS uphill is a real breeze, I think I am gaining at least 2-3 gears ...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    (although in California ... mud is a small issue and both brakes lock the wheels if I want to ...)
    So you don't ride between November and May in the Bay Area or In the Sierras at all?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    So you don't ride between November and May in the Bay Area or In the Sierras at all?
    I was going to say...if there is a place in the Bay Area that is alwyas dry...please share with us!!

  10. #10
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    Ceramic ...

    [QUOTE=Acadian] I was going to say...if there is a place in the Bay Area that is alwyas dry...please share with us!! [/QUOTE

    Far for wanting to start another discussion of V-brakes vs Disks I must say that I was a bit generous toward disk brakes by somewhat implying that V-brakes do not work well in wet conditions. I ride all year around, rain (with my goretex outfit) or shine (naked, but with elbow guards) and I never had a problem with V-brakes.

    As you can see from the photos I use V-brakes and Ceramic Rims. I use ceramic pads in front and regular pads in the rear because I do not need the extra power in the back (I can lock the rear with "half-finger"). The front provides a lot of modulation and I can lock the wheel if I want to. The V-brakes + ceramic rims work the same in dry or wet conditions.

    The longest personal experience with disks is with a Blur I used for less than a month. It had Hayes disk brakes and to be honest I could not tell the difference in performance my weight 145-150 pounds might be part of the equation.

    PS Great test ride today in GG and Presidio Park, working on the preload/rebound: it is a great bike!
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 04:07 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    Great job! You really put some effort into that bike. I just built a Spot too. I'm a bit of hack, so my bike doesn't shift as well as I would like, and I'm dialing in the shock and fork.

    The only change I would make is a set of Magura Marta brakes. That reflects my personal love for disc brakes.

    A raceable Spot! Vunderful.....

    Jaybo

    After all our past discussions here we are: both owners of a 5 spot, it must mean something

    thanks for the congrats, and good luck with your build. To cheer you up: right now I only have 6-7 speeds working because they shipped me the wrong front der, so I am just using the middle chainring with no der, never attempting to use all gears for fear of dropping the chain ... the 6 speeds do work well ...

    Instead of disk brakes what I would like to try out is some different tires: any suggestion for something not too heavy (say 600 grams top) but larger than my well-performing Specialized 1.95 Team Master/Comtrol 1998
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 04:01 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    I use ceramic pads in front and regular pads in the rear because I do not need the extra power in the back (I can lock the rear with "half-finger"). The front provides a lot of modulation and I can lock the wheel if I want to. The V-brakes + ceramic rims work the same in dry or wet conditions.
    I want some of what you're smoking.

    I ran ceramic rims and Vs and then ceramic rims and Magura hydro rim brakes before switching to discs.

    There is a dramatic difference between Vs and hydro rim brakes and also a dramatic difference between hydro rim brakes and discs.

    Wet or dry.

  13. #13
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    Ops

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    I want some of what you're smoking.

    I ran ceramic rims and Vs and then ceramic rims and Magura hydro rim brakes before switching to discs.

    There is a dramatic difference between Vs and hydro rim brakes and also a dramatic difference between hydro rim brakes and discs.

    Wet or dry.
    ... as I said I do not want to start one of the usual "slippery slope toward insults" "conversations" on disks vs V-brakes vs dragging your feet on the ground (it works!) enjoy your disks as much as I enjoy my Vs
    Last edited by Davide; 03-10-2004 at 06:50 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... as I said I do not want to start one of the usual "slippery slope toward insults" "conversations" on disks vs V-brakes vs dragging your feet on the ground (it works!) :) enjoy your disks as much as I enjoy my Vs :)
    Ok, so you stick to your fantasy then.

    Let's get back to the original question:

    Where are you riding in Northern California during the Winter/Spring where "mud is a small issue"?

  15. #15
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    Mud

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Ok, so you stick to your fantasy then.

    Let's get back to the original question:

    Where are you riding in Northern California during the Winter/Spring where "mud is a small issue"?
    What a charming chap.

    Where I came from (northern Italy), you ride mostly in secondary growth forest from 600 to 3000 feet. The rain season lasts late September to May, the soil has a much higher percent of organic components than the dry soil of most of the Bay Area. and the mud never ever goes away.
    It is thick, glue-like, and especially deep. The stuff that stop motorcycles. I cannot think about any Bay area location even coming close, Headlands, Tam, China Camp, Tilden, Diablo are basically dry with patches of mud. Point Reyes has some trail with some mud, and if you go south of SF there is some good mud in the redwoods, like the lower trails at Butano or the hills between highway 280 and the costline.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    I cannot think about any Bay area location even coming close, Headlands, Tam, China Camp, Tilden, Diablo are basically dry with patches of mud. Point Reyes has some trail with some mud, and if you go south of SF there is some good mud in the redwoods, like the lower trails at Butano or the hills between highway 280 and the costline.
    Ok, so you've confirmed that you either don't ride in the Winter/Spring or you're just hopelessly clueless.

    I wonder why my bike is so muddy during the Winter?

    Diablo "dry with patches of mud"?

    ROTFLMAO!


    (note: this is the only ridable route when it's wet as the South side of the mountain is heavy adobe clay, as is the Northeastern lower flank)

    Tam "dry with patches of mud"?


    (This is four days after precip stopped and a relatively dry part of the trail)

    Thanks for the laughs!

  17. #17
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Cool rig. I'm gonna drop 2-3# soon with a Mav fork and maybe try a rear Swinger Air of some flavor. That should get me down to 30ish

    tscheezy
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  18. #18
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    sigh ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete
    Ok, so you've confirmed that you either don't ride in the Winter/Spring or you're just hopelessly clueless.

    I wonder why my bike is so muddy during the Winter?

    Diablo "dry with patches of mud"?
    ... what a waste of time

  19. #19
    Daniel the Dog
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    I'm not a real tire expert....

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    After all our past discussions here we are: both owners of a 5 spot, it must mean something

    thanks for the congrats, and good luck with your build. To cheer you up: right now I only have 6-7 speeds working because they shipped me the wrong front der, so I am just using the middle chainring with no der, never attempting to use all gears for fear of dropping the chain ... the 6 speeds do work well ...

    Instead of disk brakes what I would like to try out is some different tires: any suggestion for something not too heavy (say 600 grams top) but larger than my well-performing Specialized 1.95 Team Master/Comtrol 1998
    However, I must admit, I never pay over $20 for a tire. Only buy on sale. I'm running IRC Backcountry this winter. They are okay. A bit slippery on rocks and roots. I'm interested in the new Specialized Roll X tires. Too bad they cost $80 for a pair.

    Yep. The Spot is a very fun bike.

    Jaybo

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    ... what a waste of time
    Nah, folks who post silly things like "The V-brakes + ceramic rims work the same in dry or wet conditions" and "although in California ... mud is a small issue" and Diablo et al are "dry with patches of mud" aren't a waste of time.

    They are entertaining, in a funny kind of way.

  21. #21
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    Unlike Jaybo, tires are one place I'm not afraid to splurge, since the difference between the clearance models and the most expensive ones you can find is what, like $20/wheel? Compare that to forks, which can vary by up to $500 between last year's model and the current ones. Anyway, I put some 2.5" Kenda Nevegal kevlar bead (Stick-E rubber) on last fall and wouldn't trade them for anything. Probably a bit much for you at 840 grams a piece, but the 2.1" in the Nevegal or Blue Groove is closer to 600 grams I believe. Kenda's tend to truer to the stated size than say, Conti's, whose 2.3" Vertical Pro is more like a 2.1" but also around 600 grams. A dark horse contender might be the new Bontrager ACX (not the old AC), which comes in a 2.2" version in the 600 gram neighborhood.

  22. #22
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    sorry for the misunderstanding. To clarify: I meant to say that you are the waste of time, and apparently you also love to waste your time taking mud photos. Very interesting and very consistent in a muddy way. If I may, I would suggest that you go to some reall muddy place (maybe Calistoga) and take a mud bath with your Turner, than you can post a "mud-pit" series and show everybody what real mud is! "A man his Turner and his mud" can be the title.

    Looking forward the photo series, goodby for now on
    Last edited by Davide; 03-11-2004 at 12:47 PM. Reason: mud #II (wow!)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide
    sorry for the misunderstanding. To clarify: I meant to say that you are the waste of time, and apparently you also love to waste your time taking mud photos.
    How ironic, especially when one considers the source (the guy who posts mundane pictures of his anorexic frankenbike with an exhaustive, and somewhat goofy, list of parts).

    I'm more than happy to takes photos/videos of you riding Diablo, Black Diamond, Briones, Pleasanton Ridge, etc. after the next bout of rain.

    They would be quite amusing, and dispell your silly fantasy that these places are "dry, with patches of mud."

    p.s. photography is also a hobby to it's hardly a waste of time, just like riding while taking a photo isn't a wste of time.

  24. #24
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    Hope sorry, but what's the point in 25 lbs?

    I don't get it. Does the thought of "the lightest 5-Spot around" give you a woody?

    Why would you want to make a 25-lb 5"/5" bike? Seems to me there's no point in 5" of travel if your goal is lightness... and please, don't bring the Maverick into this... I don't wanna piss Pete off!

    What conditions warrant 5" travel at an uberlight weight? What 5" travel bike at 25lbs will hold up to repeated banging using the full 5" of travel?

    Nerds, pocket protector geeks, weight weenies, etc. rejoice. Your new hero is Davide. He's making a useless 5-Spot out of a perfectly decent 5-Spot frame. Congrats Davide for defying logic and sense.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    I don't get it. Does the thought of "the lightest 5-Spot around" give you a woody?

    Why would you want to make a 25-lb 5"/5" bike? Seems to me there's no point in 5" of travel if your goal is lightness... and please, don't bring the Maverick into this... I don't wanna piss Pete off!

    What conditions warrant 5" travel at an uberlight weight? What 5" travel bike at 25lbs will hold up to repeated banging using the full 5" of travel?

    Nerds, pocket protector geeks, weight weenies, etc. rejoice. Your new hero is Davide. He's making a useless 5-Spot out of a perfectly decent 5-Spot frame. Congrats Davide for defying logic and sense.
    [size=3]oh trust me on this one...I visit my bike shop on a regular basis and I've seen stranger builds! I guess it’s whatever floats your boat. My tail bike right now must be like frekkin’ 35+ lbs, MRP with single ring and I still hang with the best of em’ on the climbs…but I wouldn’t mind having a tad lighter rig!![/size]

    The 5 spot give me wood…I would love to get one eventually, but it wouldn’t be setup light, but more for epics, Downieville, skeggs, etc… Fragile lightweight bike are not ideal for those type of trails! You might get away with it, but sure would take some fun out of it in my opinion.

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