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  1. #1
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    '08 RFX or wait for '09...?

    So I was all set to wait for the '09 RFX before replacing my '02. Until I've just seen the clearout deals DT is offering. If I made use of the trade in program, I could pick up an '08 for a bit under 1/2 what an '09 would cost me in the UK, even including import taxes...

    Problem is I'm not convinced that it's *quite* the right bike. I spend roughly 50% of my time trail riding (big all day 30+ mile rides in big terrain, grinding the climbs as fast as possible to get as much DH in as I can) and 50% playbiking - FR, DH, jumping, 4x that kinda thing. I don't go enormous - biggest drops are usually in the 6-8' region (biggest I've done is the end of Clown Shoes), and gaps/doubles in the 25'+ league, providing they're nice landings.

    Now the current RFX would be perfect for the traily stuff; a Highline would be great for the FR (although none of my bits would fit - Lyrics, XT cranks, standard rear hubs), so the prospect of the '09 RFX was really appealing. Also the aim is to reduce weight, not gain it!

    Problems with the current RFX are that it's possibly a little steeply angled (would be aiming for 67 HA), and having been riding an ultimately bombproof tank for the last few years I'm slightly worried how tough the '08 is. Whilst I'm only 140lb, I do seem to ride pretty hard. I also like the 1.5 concept (being able to adjust the geo through internal or external style headsets) and the 12mm bolt through that the '09 is reputed to have.

    So whaddaya think...?


  2. #2
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    i think if ya want the '09, yer gonna have to wait and pony up. i cant make it any cheaper or make the '08 the bike ya want it to be, nor can anyone else. sorry man. in the end it sounds like ya need a highline.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  3. #3
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    Think outside the box...

    A little math here.

    So with the current sale the frames work out to be roughly half of what you were planing on spending on an '09 rfx. As I see it, that's the perfect excuse to buy both an '08 Highline AND an '08 rfx, that way you can have the perfect bike for any given day's ride.

    Anyone else on my line of thought?

  4. #4
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    highline.
    yes you'll need to mess with bits but i have one and don't do anything like the big stuff you're doing, yet anyway.
    love it. if i was a smaller build 16 stone of pure yorkshire love, i'd be looking at the rfx as i miss my old xce from years gone by but my riding has changed etc and i love the highline as a bike that i never get close to the limit on!

  5. #5
    Roy
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    Depends on whether you want the DW-link or not.


    However, I'm not sure why you would even switch; the differences between the '02 and '08 is pretty small (ask FM); I'd venture to guess even smaller between the '02 and '09. The cost differential to you will vastly outweigh the performance difference.

  6. #6
    FM
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    I'd agree the '09 sounds like a better fit for your needs, on paper at least. Pretty hard to pass up the reality of the current prices though! And I think the '08 has some tricks up it's sleeve that you might like;

    • [SIZE=2]You can lower/slacken the angles with a 7.75x2.25 custom shock. I've done this and am very happy with it, it splits the difference between the stock '08 RFX geometry and the highline. If you go with avalanche, you'll also be significantly increasing the quality of the suspension which is a nice perk. However, an RFX on sale plus an avalanche shock does get you back up close to '08 retail.[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=2]A deep-insertion steel headset might help add strength to the '08.[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=2]You can get most hubs with a bolt-on through axle, no need to have the frame specially made. The king fun bolts did stiffen mine up noticeably.
      [/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=2]The '08 will help you with the lighter thing too![/SIZE]


    [SIZE=2]Now, I've also got a highline and you could lighten one up with an air shock.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]However *for me* I'd be much happier with the RFX as my only bike, I think you'll find the '08 is already stiffer&lower than the '02. I *could* be happy with only my RFX, no highline, even at whistler. But that says more about my riding style and taste in trails than the bikes themselves. [/SIZE][SIZE=2]I'd certainly prefer a beefy RFX over a light highline. The highline's geometry and build is made for those big hits, a lighter trail-friendly build would mostly cripple the frame, sure many of us can climb on a 40lb bike but how many enjoy it? For me the highline is a shuttle/lift bike that I can happily climb on, when required.[/SIZE]


    [SIZE=2]I'm not neccesarliy trying to steer you one way or the other, just adding my observations as an owner of both current models.[/SIZE]

  7. #7
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    I'm not sure why you would even switch; the differences between the '02 and '08 is pretty small (ask FM);
    I dunno about that, especially as the price differrence has gotten smaller.
    The '08 is noticably lighter, and that makes it viable as an all day trailbike. The '02 was a bit much for smoother rides with lots of climbing, for me anyways.
    I feel the '08 is more technically capable, thanks to the stiffer rear end and the lower geometry.

  8. #8
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    absolutely

    Ted is right, you need both. For the first 50% of your listed riding the RFX is perfect! The RFX is River Runs Through It and the Highline is Clown Shoes. I have ridden them, and there is NO WAY I would even think about riding the RFX down Clown. Of course with more time to build skills maybe I would take the 09 'All Mountain Uber Trail Bike' down Clown, but probably not. Next year I am bringing a gun to a gun fight, DHR to Whistler mountain as the Highline will be gone and unless I am forced to make a true big mountain FR bike, the Highline is the end. Most Turner customers are either fast trail riders, rough trail riders, big trail riders or downhillers. Big Mountain Free Ride is a tiny little slot that can easily be handled by the DHR in the Turner line or for those on a budget a Transition or Kona. Actually the whole Big Mountain FR thing is a compromise of front derailer compatable, full straight seat tube bike that has big travel and tough as nails. Reality is that the DHR will CRUSH any BMFR bike any time you quit ascending, and since the whole point of BMFR is to descend the only reason have the BMFR is if there is no chair or truck access, so the 'market' gets smaller.

    CC is right as well. 2009 is going to be late first quarter and pricier than the pre-sale RFX. The cost of everything is going up, this ain't me getting rich.

    DT

  9. #9
    Roy
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I dunno about that, especially as the price differrence has gotten smaller.
    The '08 is noticably lighter, and that makes it viable as an all day trailbike. The '02 was a bit much for smoother rides with lots of climbing, for me anyways.
    I feel the '08 is more technically capable, thanks to the stiffer rear end and the lower geometry.
    Just to be clear, it was your own thoughts I was referring to on how close the '02/'08 really are after all. I don't doubt what you describe above, however I would bet the delta is much smaller than it reads. Your "full circle" comments below were in regards to you originally thinking the '08 would be substantially different from your '02. Note your money saving idea, which is really my point for this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I don't regret selling my '02, but I did end up coming full circle. I could have happily kept my '02, thrown a fox 36 and air rear shock on, and saved $1000. YMMV.
    I don't see any point in going from 1 RFX to another and thinking things will be dramatically different. Going from an RFX to a Highline is another story.

  10. #10
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    how wrong 1 person can be. as fm said, the diff between a 9 lb '02 and a 7 lb '07/'08 rfx is massive. if i had the geo #'s in front of me i could better explain why to anyone whos never ridden both.

    i feel exactly the same way about how they both climb. the old bike is a beast and when ridden back to back with the newer version, its clear how much it gives up when ya go up. on the way back down it also gets its ass handed to it with the lower leverage ratio on the newer frame and a bit more travel to boot.

    no offence roy but ya really missed the boat on this.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  11. #11
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    Just to be clear, it was your own thoughts I was referring to on how close the '02/'08 really are after all.
    Fair game! To clarify, it is totally a money thing;

    the differences between the '02 and the '08 are definitely noticeable on the trail.

    What I was getting at, was that the '02 was still a killer bike and the $1000 I would have potentially saved at the time by keeping the '02 could have bought other weight-saving parts & upgrades.

    With the newer low prices and the trade-in, you're looking at $~700 for the '08, plus no hassle with selling & ads. Thats pretty cheap for fresh paint & new pivots, .6" more travel, stiffer rear, better cable routing, a lower BB, and 2lbs less. At that price I'd say go for it!

  12. #12
    Roy
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    I'd spend the ~$700 on an air shock and lighter parts that would give you the flexibility to switch between ride setups. Otherwise you'll be locked into just the lighter '08 setup. JMO.

    The geo differences noticeable? Sure. Dramatic? Not so much.

    As for the weight differences - same shock on both frames: NOT 2 lbs. I remember the first apples/oranges debacle, but keep tryin' bra...

  13. #13
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    Stiffer rear MY ASS!
    I had some e-mail correspondence with DT a while back when I asked him just that question; is the '08 rear triangle stiffer than the '02. He said NO.
    As far as the weight and geo differences; throw a coil shock on your '08 and you are just about the same as the '02, and if you can get the lower BB/slacker HA rockers for your '02, you have about the same geo as an '08.
    My rockers mimic those rockers mentioned above. My HA is 67.5, BB height with 2.3's is 14.2, and my bike will kick your bike's ass on any descent!
    It's a fricken free-ride bike, put down the cigarrettes or the bong, get in shape, and pedal that biatch. You sea-level dwelling lard-butts should come for a ride with me.
    ****

  14. #14
    trail fairy
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    Welcome back Rene time we had some nar back around here
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Stiffler, rear MY ASS!
    is there somthin ya want to tell us?
    No, I'm NOT back!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    is there somthin ya want to tell us?
    I'm telling YOU that you're a sea-level dwelling lard-butt.
    ****

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    I'm telling YOU that you're a sea-level dwelling lard-butt.
    Hes a 65 -70 kg wringing wet, sea dwelling maybe lard ass

    don't throw stones in glass houses

    Ya been missing out Rene hes built up one of those Hard core nar RFXs even out done you and got some triples up front
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  18. #18
    trail fairy
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    Rene I think you missed something

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Renegade
    Stiffler, rear MY ASS!

    Quote Originally Posted by cactuscorn
    is there somthin ya want to tell us?
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
    Helmet for your neck

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  19. #19
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by big-ted
    A little math here.

    So with the current sale the frames work out to be roughly half of what you were planing on spending on an '09 rfx. As I see it, that's the perfect excuse to buy both an '08 Highline AND an '08 rfx, that way you can have the perfect bike for any given day's ride.

    Anyone else on my line of thought?
    I smell what you are cooking. and I agree with DT.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Fair game!
    With the newer low prices and the trade-in, you're looking at $~700 for the '08, plus no hassle with selling & ads. Thats pretty cheap for fresh paint & new pivots, .6" more travel, stiffer rear, better cable routing, a lower BB, and 2lbs less. At that price I'd say go for it!
    Hey FM,
    Just curious how you came up with $700? New adjusted RFX prices are at ~$1700 - $500 trade in would be ~$1200. If I can get it at that price I'm all over it!

  21. #21
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    I smell what you are cooking. and I agree with DT.


    I know what youre cooking

    We only been telling you guys for years and years, but no lightweight is where its at, oh how the wheel turns, we so far ahead of ourselves, in 6months maybe a year you all be getting rid of ya seatpost crutches too!


    Ps I predict now the HL will make a comeback
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

    MAXXIS 4C!
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  22. #22
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    keep tryin' bra...


    You can compare numbers all day long, what matters is how the bikes ride.

    I always chose my hardtail over the '02 for longer all-mountain type rides, mainly due to the weight of the '02. But the '08 is perfect for those same rides. Some of it is the lighter weight, some of it is the geometry. The stock '08 was 1/2" lower than the '02 and I knocked another 3/8" off that. Don't forget the '08 has more travel too, so it sits even lower yet. So with the fork at 130mm my BB sits below 14" which makes for perfect tech-XC geometry, yet with the fork at 160 it's also slacker, lower and more travel than the '02 so it's better going down too.

    Another difference, the '08's definitely more progressive, it feels bottomless on drops and pedals better too.

    2lbs, you can't split hairs when you figure in sizing etc. All I know is that my '08 with an avy is still lighter than my '02 with an air shock. With fork technology having progressed as well, my current RFX total weight is a good 4-5lbs lighter than my old '02 and feels better pretty much everywhere.

    Sure you can shave weight with an air shock, but I want the feel of coil, and the lighter weight too, ain't gonna happen with an '02

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade
    Stiffer rear MY ASS! It's a fricken free-ride bike, put down the cigarrettes or the bong, get in shape, and pedal that biatch. You sea-level dwelling lard-butts should come for a ride with me.
    • You call it a free ride bike. I call it a trail bike, which is what I use it for, I've got the highline for free-ride.
    • The '08's most definitely stiffer, is it the rear? could be the front traingle, the rockers, tolerances, who knows but it's definitely so, one of the first things I noticed. You can't tell me the stock '02 rockers are stiffer than the new ones.
    • You're rig's all customized, it's not truly an '02 anymore anyways.
    • It's not lard, its pure E-muscle!!!!
    So look, my point is DT keeps making them better every year, he gets to look at what worked and what didn't, why would he make the newer models more flexible or less versatile? Sucks to admit but there are classics and then there is evolution, time marches on and better products are designed & built, doesn't make the '02 any less of a great bike.

    The more I ride mine, the more I love it and the less I miss my '02, although that paint was badd-azz.

  23. #23
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBidnezz
    Hey FM,
    New adjusted RFX prices are at ~$1700 - $500 trade in would be ~$1200. I'm just curious, because if I could get that price I would be all over it!
    Right you are, as Renegade suggested perhaps I should put down the bong!


  24. #24
    Roy
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    FM - it appears you've come full circle, again.

    At first you were all about how dramatically different the '08 was to the '02. Then in this very thread you changed your mind and specifically point out how more similar the '02 is to the '08, followed by telling CC how he needs to change the bong water more often after trying to pawn off how the frames are 2 lbs different, when that is clearly not the case with the same shock:

    2002 RFX Marketplace and Value?

    So now the OP is up to $1200 for a frame that has subtle differences, no doubt, but dramatic? Please. That's the issue here - the frames are different, the frames are NOT dramatically different. You agreed once, maybe you'll agree again, or not.

    $1200 would come close to buying a Highline.

  25. #25
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    FM - it appears you've come full circle, again.

    That's the issue here - the frames are different, the frames are NOT dramatically different. You agreed once, maybe you'll agree again, or not.
    Correct, I am not agreeing or disagreeing, because I don't need to dislike the old version to like the new one better!


    Maybe the moderator can combine these two threads, so you can compare my posts more conveniently? There's nothing new from me in this thread and nothing which conflicts with what I posted in the previous one. Yes, an '02 with an air shock will be within a pound of the '08 with a coil, yes the '08 is lower, etc. TIME TO MOVE ON. Here's another quote from that old thread, in case you think I've somehow changed my mind:

    As for '02 vs. '08: The suspension feel, cable routing and lower BB height on the newest RFX's are great improvements, and they are really a good bit lighter. But I loved the sizing and 5" rocker option of the '02.
    Yes, the RFX has evolved, it was a great bike before and it's better now. I'm glad to have owned both, and a highline too, life is good! Of them all, the '08 rfx is the one I'd grab in a house fire.

    Speaking of going full circle, You'll be interested to know I have both an '02 and an '08 in my garage right now. Can you guess which one's going up for sale?
    Last edited by FM; 07-14-2008 at 06:03 PM.

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