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  1. #1
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    '05 6-Pack Shock Recommendations/Advice Needed

    I ride trails that are more suited for a 5-spot, but have a 6-Pack. I do not huck, shuttle or DH. So my question is what shock would you recommend for a technical/aggressive trail rider (2-4 hour rides).



    I'm looking for good peddling platform performance while still offering a plush ride when needed. I have a bad back and neck, so I want something that will take alot of the edge off of the trails without slowing down.

    I also have a Flux which I use for less technical trails that are more single-track and less technical. The Flux has a RP23 which was super easy to set up and suits my needs very well.



    I am leaning to a Push'd RP23 for the 6-Pack. Does anyone else have a suggestion or comments? Would a coil be over kill? If not is it worth the extra weight?

    Would upgrading rockers be possible and/or worth while?

    I'm 6', 192 lbs on a large '05 6-Pack.

  2. #2
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    I weigh about the same as you, and just put on a Push'd RP23 on my '05 6pack at the end of last season. It has a really strong pedal platform and will probably save some weight over your DHX air.

    My 6pack w/ that upgraded shock even saw some XC and endurance race duty last year...really wakes the bike up, at least compared to the DHXc that I had on previously.

    I've just ordered a Sultan for race/light trail, so I'm going to beef up my 6pack again

    The Push'd RP23 doesn't give an inch to the coil (in my opinion) for trail riding...but i would still rather have the coil on the 6pack if riding according to it's intended purpose.

  3. #3
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Don't get an avalanche, because I'm thinking of getting one in a few days here for my 6pack and I don't want to have to wait longer while they build your shock first.


    I'm looking for good peddling platform performance while still offering a plush ride when needed. I have a bad back and neck, so I want something that will take alot of the edge off of the trails without slowing down.
    There are a lot of contradictions here. If you're looking for a great-pedaling bike, you shouldn't have gotten a heavy 6pack. I ride my pack with around 33% sag and do just fine, it pedals well because my legs are strong, cranking up the propedal on my shock sacrifices traction (on the uphills too) and suspension performance. That will be true of any shock with a "platform" or excessive low speed compression damping.
    My experience is;

    RP3 (on the pack); Too progressive, losing out on travel due to this or if set up with a lot of sag to utilize the travel and have smooth initial travel it tended to be too far into it's travel and you still lost travel. I couldn't find a happy medium, although Push could probably tune it better in terms of the "propedal", which was too agressive for this bike. Not a good shock for agressive trail riding (which is 80-90% of what I do).

    DHX Air (on the pack); Seemed really plush at low and medium speeds, but tended to blow through the travel a lot. This "plush" travel was somewhat deceptive because at higher speeds through lots of medium bumps it would then get pretty harsh, as it couldn't keep up. Lack of mid-stroke damping is it's downfall and nothing really makes up for this. The DHX-C was far more consistant, although a bit less "plush" at the very low speeds.

    DHX-Coil (on the pack); Good, not great, but a good shock for the bike. It pedals fairly well (I suppose, but I think a lot more factors are involved with "pedaling") and has the propedal function so you can destroy some suspension performance for even better "pedaling". The high speed characteristics were a lot better than the DHX Air, but I still notice some "spiking" as it can't seem to move fluid fast enough for some of the hits. Understand that I take most of my equipment to the extreme. Compared to some of the other shocks I've had (curnutt, 5th element) it's pure butter, but I can see room for improvement. I've had 3 DHX-coils and I've been pretty satisfied with the performance from em, but now I think I'm going to try something different. I'd like to try the DHX-C back to back with my old vanilla R and RCs from back in the day. From what I remember, the DHX-C is a more "controlled" shock overall, even though it doesn't feel like dead-crap (5th element, curnutt), but those shocks (the 5th and curnutt) had me dying to return to the old vanilla RC because they worked like crap comparatively. The DHX-C seemed to give a lot of the benefits of the 5th element (progressive/bottomout control and pro-pedal adjustment) without the horrible negative (way too much rebound damping and poor sensitivity). Again, overall it's a good shock.

    Curnutt; Crap. Crap suspension performance. Sure, it "pedaled" nice, but the bike felt like it was about to snap in half because it was so harsh down rock chutes.

    5th Element; Crap. Same reasons as the curnutt, not quite as bad, but still not good.

    Romic; "ok", but it broke 3x, and romic lied about the failures. Too much compression damping. Better than a 5th, but not nearly as good as a DHX-C.

    Stratos Helix Pro; Way too progressive with the air spring + progressively wound coil.

    Avalanche; Was pretty damn good to great. It was "dialed" and the rebound circut is complex enough to differentiate between fast and slow hits, so it feels real "slow", but at speed it works nicely. I think I'm going to spring for one soon.

    I've had other shocks on other bikes, but I don't think they are all relevant.

    I've tried a push shock a few times, but I can't say that I've been overly impressed after riding the avy and using DHX-Cs for the most part. Maybe I didn't get a push that was "dialed" for me. I know the technology they are using is proven, and I've been toying with getting my DHX "pushed", but I am a lot more confident in the avalanche's performance. Plus, push stopped doing the DHX upgrade where they took out the "spv" type circut, so while I'm sure it performs better, for my particular shock I think I can do better with an avy.

    Haven't used the CCDB, but at Sedona the shops had some bad things to say, except for doing stuff like drops they said it tended to be somewhat harsh...kind of along the same lines as has been explained due to the shims not flexing under fast-impacts and mainly orofice-damping.

    If you don't want to spend $600 on a shock, then buy someone's DHX-C (maybe mine in a few days) and get it "pushed". I'm sure that would be a fantastic performing shock. I don't waste my time with air-shocks, and I've never found a reason to (with the RP3, DHX-A, and pushed RP shocks I've had/tried). It's a 6-pack, it's meant to be ridden hard, it needs a shock that can move a lot of damping fluid.
    Last edited by Jayem; 05-07-2008 at 07:57 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  4. #4
    Viva Las Peli Taco
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    Wow,

    Thank you for the food for thought!

  5. #5
    FM
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    I've got about 6 rides on my avalanche now, 2-3 rides on an RP3 prior to that, and a year on a Marzocchi Roco TST before that.

    I really really like the avalanche. I'm still experimenting with the settings, but I can see where it may not be the shock for everybody. It seems to have the least pedaling platform of any shock I've owned. Part of that was my request to have it tuned that way. It's actually extremely calm seated climbing, but you can see it cycle over small stuff. Out of the saddle, it does bob a bit. Adding a turn of preload helped a lot here (more than the LSC I found). The pay off is on the downhill! My RFX suddenly feels like it has an inch more travel. It's far more supple on the small stuff, swallows baby heads at speed with incredible ease, and has yet to bottom on big hits. The shaped cup and BO elastomer does cool things at the end of stroke I think. It seems like once a ride I have a moment, usually hitting larger rocks at speed, where the shock really excels. If you are a "climb & drop" type rider, this shock will definitely reward your climbing patience.


    The roco TST was %75 as good on downhill and tech terrain, but does far better on the uphills thanks to the TST feature. I really liked the TST, perfect for quickly tuning the shock to the trail. I bet PUSH could make it even better. Fit may be an issue, too bad, I think it's the most versatile shock I tried despite being "jack of all trades, master of none".

    I've tried a bunch of other shocks (roco wc, dhx coil & air, romic) all fine but not worth reviewing here.....

    RockfishDave
    , from what you describe I'd go with either a roco TST or an RP23.
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    Last edited by FM; 05-07-2008 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #6
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    Push'd DHXc

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockfish Dave
    Wow,

    Thank you for the food for thought!
    I have one that was recently replaced with CCDB. I was holding onto it just in case and even sent it to Push for a tuneup last month. Hasn't been mounted since and it is yours if you are interested. PM with a budget and I can work something out with you.

    *BTW...the CCDB is the best thing since toilet paper imo.

  7. #7
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    My DHX with a Ti Spring is great! It's like riding wi**e on the couch (red or not doesn't matter)

    Seriously, when time is taken too tune the settings of the DHX, with a Ti sping it's works really great, at least for some, AM, DH riding
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  8. #8
    trail fairy
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    CCDB harsh no way, youre not setting it up right, and setup is subjective subject, so I don't buy it, with over 1/12 yrs on one from day one on my 06 RFX it was and is the best shock Ive ridden to date, maybe some of you are over spring rating it..

    Rockfish Dave I sold my CCDB, so one day when things are right I'll be back in the market for a new shock as well Im gonna see if the boys can get a Roco TST coil in just to se if there are any fit issues, hopefully they won't mind trying this for me!

    If you are going air have you considered the Roco 3pl? based on your ride needs it would be a good fit..

    If it can fit the Roco TST air would be the number 1 choice in air for me, large volume chambers on both and they seem to get great reviews though Im surprised no one here to date has tried them, they don't seem all that expensive compared to some of the other stuff out there and I wonder if where missing out here!

    Anyways if ya got some decent LBSs handy they should be prepared to get one in on loan too see if it fits, we shouldn't have to take risks to find these things out about there products!

    If I did that to my customers when I was in business I'd been laughed at out the door, Im supposed to know that as a sales person or technical junky, basic 101.

    Anyway worth a serious look they have the numbers e.g correct eye to eye!
    As Ive said before its a real pity the Vivid is not available in more lengths it looks promising and one in 7.5x2.0 would be on my wish list for xmas
    '
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  9. #9
    steep fast and loose :)
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    CCDB is not harsh. If it is, why not dial down the compression circuits, corect your spring rate, or finally slow down your rebound ?
    that is an incredible comment ! ?? !
    anyway, i recommend the CCDB . I'm riding a large 6 Pack, weigh in ~180lbs and run a 650# Ti spring.
    refer to the CCDB database here :
    6 Pack & Cane Creek Double Barrel - HELP Request !
    good luck !

    simon.

  10. #10
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinz132
    My DHX with a Ti Spring is great! It's like riding wi**e on the couch (red or not doesn't matter)

    Seriously, when time is taken too tune the settings of the DHX, with a Ti sping it's works really great, at least for some, AM, DH riding

    vinz132 raise you your RFX

    Love the color dude..
    Heres my green build stage 06

    SS style 07
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  11. #11
    Roy
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    I would recommend you get a 5.5 Spot or a Spot with the 5.75 Push rockers, and a Push'd RP3.

  12. #12
    Natl. Champ DH Poser/Hack
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    as others say, the rp23 will be perfect for what ya describe. i cant see a reason for spendin close to a grand on a shock that will stay planted on the trail, unless ya really want it of course.
    No, I'm NOT back!

  13. #13
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Thanks everyone, I ordered the Avalanche this morning.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Haven't used the CCDB, but at Sedona the shops had some bad things to say, except for doing stuff like drops they said it tended to be somewhat harsh...kind of along the same lines as has been explained due to the shims not flexing under fast-impacts and mainly orofice-damping.
    Jayem,

    Though I don't have an insane amount of riding time on my ccdb, I do have some fairly significant levels of rocky riding on it. While settings were hard to make with the need to go back to the factory baselines a couple, it wasn't harsh by any means. In fact, it really felt like it went through travel to easily, slowing me down on such things as moguls, inducing that weight transfer that dragged me back. I was able to tune lsc on the edge of harshness and suppleness well, though I do find that there can be a point where one needs more lsc to control the blowing through travel on the slower stuff, causing harshness. That is a limitation CC doesn't mention. Though it's likely easier to tune out with a slight amount of coil preload, I haven't tried it just yet. I'm still working on my settings and I haven't been able to ride for a couple weeks due to my move, but I'll be hitting some gnarly **** in the east in a couple weeks and perhaps into the Czech Republic for a few days as well.

    Overall, I like the CCDB. I also liked the DHXc. They both offer me good options and you can't go wrong with Avy, nor with most of the other choices either. Just about every rider and terrain combo can find a good shock for them today.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    vinz132 raise you your RFX

    Love the color dude..
    Heres my green build stage 06
    Here was my v1


    I'm rebuilding it, with xt crank and Hope BB, xo shifter, xo derailleur, Hope New mono m4, thomson seatpost and stem, Fox 36 van rc2 for the fork and wheel would be oldschool mavix crossmax xl or a set of Hope pro2 lace to ex823 rims. can't wait to do it

  16. #16
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockfish Dave
    I ride trails that are more suited for a 5-spot, but have a 6-Pack. I do not huck, shuttle or DH. So my question is what shock would you recommend for a technical/aggressive trail rider (2-4 hour rides).
    I think you already know what to do. You shoulda gotten a spot with and RP3.

    For the riding you mention, I think the DHXa should work well. So tell us, what don't you like about the DHX air?
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  17. #17
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    Completely under-rated. Pushed Van R.
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  18. #18
    Amphibious Technologies
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Completely under-rated. Pushed Van R.
    That's a great, relatively low cost suggestion.
    "The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech

  19. #19
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Jayem,

    Though I don't have an insane amount of riding time on my ccdb, I do have some fairly significant levels of rocky riding on it. While settings were hard to make with the need to go back to the factory baselines a couple, it wasn't harsh by any means. In fact, it really felt like it went through travel to easily, slowing me down on such things as moguls, inducing that weight transfer that dragged me back. I was able to tune lsc on the edge of harshness and suppleness well, though I do find that there can be a point where one needs more lsc to control the blowing through travel on the slower stuff, causing harshness. That is a limitation CC doesn't mention. Though it's likely easier to tune out with a slight amount of coil preload, I haven't tried it just yet. I'm still working on my settings and I haven't been able to ride for a couple weeks due to my move, but I'll be hitting some gnarly **** in the east in a couple weeks and perhaps into the Czech Republic for a few days as well.

    Overall, I like the CCDB. I also liked the DHXc. They both offer me good options and you can't go wrong with Avy, nor with most of the other choices either. Just about every rider and terrain combo can find a good shock for them today.
    Well, cost wise it's the same for me, I can't get any deals on the CCDB (but I can get deals on other CC shocks..go figure), and avalanche isn't flexible at all because there are no "dealer" deals, so the avalanche is a known quantity for me, while the CCDB is not. I've tried the avy and I'm confident in their ability to valve it to my needs. Not so much with the CCDB. I'm sure it "could" be great, and some users say it is of course, but it's just more of a leap into the unknown for me, while the avy is pretty proven to me. I'll post my thoughts when I get it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Completely under-rated. Pushed Van R.
    True...but not everyone has a vanilla R lying around to send to push.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
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    I don't like that I cannot get a very stable platform. I have the pro peddle maxed out, the boost resivoir is maxed. Then to top it off; on the tchnical down hill portions I think I am close to bottoming the shock out (the rubber washer is near the bottom. If I add enough air to avoid blowing through the travel, the shock is like a brick... I think either a shock with very good low speed dampning or platform would be ideal.

    I might change the rockers out for the new 5.5 spot rockers. My only hesitation is the 150 dollar price tag for new ones.

    I think I am talking myself into the rp23. Now if I can find a good deal on one...

  22. #22
    Team Blindspot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    True...but not everyone has a vanilla R lying around to send to push.
    My point is, you can buy one and have it Pushed for far less money than other suggestions put out there.

    Push can be tune it to meet Rockfish's needs.
    Astigmatic Visionary

  23. #23
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    My point is, you can buy one and have it Pushed for far less money than other suggestions put out there.

    Push can be tune it to meet Rockfish's needs.
    I've owned PUSH'd shocks before (Vanilla RC and RP3, both with the old "factory race" tuning) and honestly although they were both greatly improved, this avy is in a different class altogether.

    Not dissing Darrens fine work- or disputing that saving a few benjamins isn't a fine idea. Ultimately I think any really high-end shock will only be as good as the riders ability to tune it, or communicate their needs to the tuner. Stock shocks are really pretty good unless you're looking for a specific feel IMHO.

    Had a great ride tonight, exploring the tuning options on the avy has reinforced my impression that this shock is really incredible. I slowed down the rebound 3 clicks and backed the preload off 1/2 turn, it's just straight hot butter now. I found lowering my bars 1/2" (to go with my lower BB) resolved my climbing gripes- a more efficient climbing position and slightly less rearward weight bias = no more bobbing. We rode a lot of super steep rooty horsechop tonight and the RFX just ate it up, yummy yummy.


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, cost wise it's the same for me, I can't get any deals on the CCDB (but I can get deals on other CC shocks..go figure), and avalanche isn't flexible at all because there are no "dealer" deals, so the avalanche is a known quantity for me, while the CCDB is not. I've tried the avy and I'm confident in their ability to valve it to my needs. Not so much with the CCDB. I'm sure it "could" be great, and some users say it is of course, but it's just more of a leap into the unknown for me, while the avy is pretty proven to me. I'll post my thoughts when I get it.
    Definitely. Don't forget to include some "Homer" MS Paint graphical impressions as well. Craig with "pom poms" on his chest instead of Bomber girls would work too.

    I definitely see what you're saying about the outlay for an unknown shock. I got my CCDB for a more than fair price, perhaps even a going away gift, so was willing to try it. I do like it through six days of sharp, broken rock in Pa. I might have to give the nod for pedaling to the DHXc even at low PP settings and boost pressures. We'll see. Won't be able to ride for another two weeks, however, and there are no trails nearby, other than a path along a canal.

  25. #25
    trail fairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinz132
    Here was my v1
    I'm rebuilding it, with xt crank and Hope BB, xo shifter, xo derailleur, Hope New mono m4, thomson seatpost and stem, Fox 36 van rc2 for the fork and wheel would be oldschool mavix crossmax xl or a set of Hope pro2 lace to ex823 rims. can't wait to do it
    Nice upgrades V, good looking bike
    Liking the Van Idea, I see it in my Future, when can ride again, my RFX is forkless at mo so hangs from the PT stand, Hope BB wil be nice let us know what ya think of it, I like that they are rebuildable and stainless os bearings cool, I'll give mine a make over when the time comes she needs some loving, like me
    You'll love the rest, build ya wheels, go with the Hops/823's

    Sweet...
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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