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Thread: Trek Hi Fi

  1. #1
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    Trek Hi Fi

    another xc full suspension??

    Do you know something about..??

    Pics?

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    Found this on the Passion thread. The fella said that it was Fishers answer to the Fuel EX.
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    07 stuff...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brib
    another xc full suspension??

    Do you know something about..??

    Pics?
    Here's what I know of '07 stuff..

    Cake is gone. the Hi-Fi replaces it. It uses a new geometry - Genesis 2 or G2. Basically they just tweaked only the front end. They wanted to play around with the trail of the bike to make it handle quicker in tight singletrack. The big kicker is that Manitou makes custom forks for the Hi-Fi which have varying offsets. It's interesting, cause basically you now sorta locked into one fork, so you better like the fork you are getting.

    For Trek:

    The Fuels get updated with a bunch of stuff. Fuels to 90mm in the rear and Fuel EX's go to 120mm. All fuels get bearings (finally!) all around. apparently, the rear triangle takes a lot less force to activate vs the bushings.

    I think both have a new welded asym rear triangle, clearance for 2.3 (maybe 2.5 i forget) tires. The rear triangle is apparently 280g lighter than the old one and is easier to align. The old one was bonded making it harder to align. all EX's will get Fox rear shocks, and most of them will sport Fox front forks.

    Oh also, apparently the AL Fuels will weigh less than this years' Top Fuel frame. nice!

    seems like the Fuels are definitely taking a step up in the world. I like them.

    -don

  4. #4
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    Is that an FSR suspension design with a real Horst link? Never saw that coming from Fisher.
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    I could be wrong (someone more knowledgable could help me out on this one), but I think a true Horst link is located on the chainstays, as opposed to the seatstays like on this new HiFi. I think this setup would be considered a dual link design which seems to be becoming more and more popular. It works quite well depending on who's designing it, but I suppose any design has it's drawbacks / critics. Two examples of this design that come to mind are Turner, and the old (and faithful) K2 Razorbacks. Am I off base here?

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    Looks more like an updated design of the Sugar to me.

    Must admit - it does look quite nice.

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    More pics??

    Found this on the Passion thread
    link?

  8. #8
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    Not Horst

    It's a single pivot bike.

    You are correct, a HL is on the chainstay, not seat stay.

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    Actually it is a four bar....

    set up not a Horst or a single pivot. If you look closely there are pivots on the seat stays just above and in front of the dropouts. Should be interesting to see how it performs in comparison with the older model/design.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squash
    set up not a Horst or a single pivot. If you look closely there are pivots on the seat stays just above and in front of the dropouts. Should be interesting to see how it performs in comparison with the older model/design.

    Good Dirt
    The bike is a single pivot.... meaning there is no pivot between the main pivot and the axle. The axle path is exactly the same as a single pivot. The linkage is only to set the shock rate.... and to allow the designer to mount the shock where they want.

    Technically it is a 4 bar, but in the bike world, a four bar suspension refers to a bike with a pivot between the axle and the main pivot.

    Four Bar Bikes - Older Turners (most), Ellsworth (most), Titus

    Single Pivot bikes - Trek Fuel, Liquid, HiFi, Kona, New Turners

  11. #11
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    Better look again Blue...

    the bike in that picture IS NOT a single pivot!!!! There are two pivots on the seat stays right above and in front of the rear drop out. That makes it a FOUR BAR. Older Turners ARE NOT four bars they are Horst Links, so are current Ellsworths, Specialized FS bikes etc. The new turner design is, as are the Hi Fi, the Liquid and others with the pivots on the seat stays. This makes them either a four bar of faux bar design. Yes the old Cake and the Sugars were singles, the Hi Fi is NOT! Now that's not to say that Fisher didn't change their mind before production, but the bike in the referenced picture is deffinately not a single pivot! Please note the picture that I have attached, the green circle surounds the right side pivot.

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    Last edited by Squash; 06-15-2006 at 02:08 PM.
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  12. #12
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    yes, but those suspension geometries have the same path as a single-pivot. the chainstay is connected directly to the axle and the frame. the LINKAGE is merely used to activate the shock.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by revmonkey
    yes, but those suspension geometries have the same path as a single-pivot. the chainstay is connected directly to the axle and the frame. the LINKAGE is merely used to activate the shock.
    My points exactly.

  14. #14
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    Agreed. Its action is single pivot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squash
    the bike in that picture IS NOT a single pivot!!!! There are two pivots on the seat stays right above and in front of the rear drop out. That makes it a FOUR BAR.
    Four bar is a Horst Link. The fisher is a Faux Bar since the pivot is on the seatstays. But, like the post says below, the addition of this pivot doesn't change the path of the axle vs a single pivot. The axle and main pivot are still connected thru the chainstays, just like a single pivot. So that's why people just say it's a single pivot.

    -don

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squash
    the bike in that picture IS NOT a single pivot!!!! There are two pivots on the seat stays right above and in front of the rear drop out. That makes it a FOUR BAR. Older Turners ARE NOT four bars they are Horst Links, so are current Ellsworths, Specialized FS bikes etc. The new turner design is, as are the Hi Fi, the Liquid and others with the pivots on the seat stays. This makes them either a four bar of faux bar design. Yes the old Cake and the Sugars were singles, the Hi Fi is NOT! Now that's not to say that Fisher didn't change their mind before production, but the bike in the referenced picture is deffinately not a single pivot! Please note the picture that I have attached, the green circle surounds the right side pivot.

    Good Dirt
    Squash - Technically, you're correct. The only problem is that the term 4-bar does not toell the whole story

    A four bar linkage is a system which has a static bar, two link bars, and the "control" bar, aka the bar who's path you are trying to control. That would make the "control" the bar with the dropout attached (the seatstay on a Horst Link), the links would be the chainstays and the rocker arm, and the static would be the main frame.

    A four bar with a Horst link can behave very differently from a 4-bar single pivot...which in turn will behave differently from a VPP 4-bar. That's the reason that I (and many others) try to distinguish between the 4-bar types.... so you end up with:

    Horst Link (4-bar alters axle path and shock rate)
    Single pivot (4-bar only affects shock rate)
    VPP (4-bar alters axle path and shock rate)

    There is a 4-bar with horst link - Turner (older). The axle path is a bit more vertical.
    There is 4-bar with SS link (single pivot) The axle path is circular. Trek, current Turners, Kona, etc. This is commonly referred to as a "Faux Bar"
    VPP is another 4-bar system. S-shaped axle path

    So, just saying 4-bar tells you nothing about the suspension. The Trek in question is a 4-bar, single pivot path.

  17. #17
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    Pardon me, I always hose up the terms....

    Four bar, horst, Faux bar it gets confusing, but, they do usually behave differently. So I still think it would be interesting to compare the two. As I said appologies for the confusion in terms. Blue you are correct the older Turners etc. were four bars w/horst link (I'm used to just using the term horst link), the new are Faux bars. My bad.

    Good Dirt
    Last edited by Squash; 06-15-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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  18. #18
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    I talked to a Trek Rep today, and he said that it was, in fact, a single pivot suspension design.
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  19. #19
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    No problem

    A well executed rear suspension is actually more important than the type of suspension. They all have their positive and negative traits.

    It's all good.

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