How are you finding DRCV
I posted this in another but thought it derseved its own.
I just bought a Trek Remedy 9 and am loving most of it apart from just getting a few things dialled as I get used to the bike.
I seem to be having trouble getting the front fork dialled in. It seems to tackle trail chatter very well and big hits likes jumps and drop offs well too. But when it comes to hitting medium sized rock gardens at speed, I feel like its not working right. It feels bouncy and deflective. Its like my arms are taking all the hits.
I have a specialized fsr stumpjumper pro as well and I know over the same rock gardens the specialized fork just seems to level it all out and soak it up.
So I am not sure if the fork just needs time to wear in or I have got the wrong settings, hmmmm.
How are others finding there drcv shocks?
I have the DRCV fork on my Remedy 9.8 as well and have never really been able to ďtuneĒ it as well as I thought the shock should. I have the rebound a click or two slower than what Trek says it should be for my weight because that seemed to help. I feel that after all the messing around I have done that it is going to be as good as it is going to get. I have over 150 miles on it so it should be plenty broken in.
Initially I couldnít get it dialed in at all but then realized that you have make sure that you screw in the pump another ľ turn and your gauge on your pump will increase another 10 psi or so. Then cycle the shock through 60% of its travel to equal out the pressure just like on the rear. Iím not sure why I didnít figure that out seeing as how they are both DRCV.
@mtnbkaz seems to be pretty knowledgeable about the DRCV fork and shocks and says that basically it is the nature of the technology. http://forums.mtbr.com/trek/drcv-problems-716172.html
searching his posts might be able to give you a bit more useful information than I have.
After reading all those posts, I am beginning to wonder if DRCV is just a marketing tool?
I bought this bike on the back of lots of glowing reviews. It was a toss up for me between the Remedy 9 and the Stumpy Evo. I am beginning to wonder how this bike would ride with normal 150mm shocks like every other bike manufacture still uses.
The pressure suggested in Trek's chart seems way high. To get full travel out of my DRCV Float I need to run about 60% to 70% of the recommended pressure. With pressure dropped it is much better feeling and more balanced.
The rear shock seems about right at suggested pressure.
In another development with my shock, had noticed in the 2 months since I got the bike that there was a creaking sound coming from what I thought was the headset. When I was climbing and popped the wheel over a small root or rock it would make the sound or after I started my descent and then did some hard breaking then it would do it. So a forward and back rocking of the shock
It has gotten worse and worse but was hard for me to replicate it in my garage so that I could take it to my lbs and have them look at it. I figured out a way to do it on some carpet to keep the wheel from sliding on the floor with the front brakes on. When I took it in to the shop the guy right away knew what it was. Not the headset, but the stanchions in the fork moving in the crown. I know itís got nothing to do with DRCV but it seems like there are lots of issues with the DRCV fork and rear shock other than the DRCV technology. He said the Fox warranty guy was going to be in a Tuesday and they would let me know if it was a warranty issue which I think it should be seeing as how the bike is only two months old.
I agree with @OGWGFIWRT that running less pressure than recommended in the fork felt better.
I had a Fox 32 F120 RLC with the Kashima coating on my previous bike that was way more tunable and even though it was 120mm of travel it was smoother with less stiction and would use all the travel and never felt like it bottomed out. Next year I think I will go with a Fox Talus 150 RLC.
Yeah, I too am running about 25% less pressure in the fork than reccomended. It helps but still really doesn't feel like I think it should. I get a lot of brake dive and bouncing when out of the saddle too when running it at low pressure.
Come to think of it, my arms and shoulders are sore and achey after each ride on the bike, and I know its becuase of the forks. I ride some really rough trails with lots of rock gardens.
I never had a trek before, whats their warranty like? Do you think they would swap my fork over for a normal 150mm float RLC Kashima?
Bit of an update, I wrote to Trek Australia and asked them about the problem with the fork. It wasn't much help to me but I'll post there answer as it may be of help to some people with a new Trek with DRCV.
Thanks for taking the time to get in contact with us!
A really good tip that we have found works well is to just give you fork a few light compressions before a ride and always check air pressure before you go.
This engages both chambers in a more controlled environment rather than riding along and hitting something big and causing a large compression and an uneven flow of air between the chambers.
If this doesn't work I would head into your nearest Trek dealer and ask them to have a look at the fork and see if they can help diagnose the issue.
I hope this helps your out and if you have any other questions please donít hesitate to send me another email.
Tonight after work I dropped the pressures of both the fork and shock. I am 70kg (155lbs) and went 170psi on the rear and 70psi on the front.
Bit of a quick ride down the local park with some stairs and 3 ft drop offs, it felt a lot better! On the drops the fork was close to bottoming, and the ring on the back shock was close to falling off the piston. Its strange to me to set up a bike like this where its so close to bottoming?
I will have to test the new settings out on the trail on the weekend. My gut feeling is that it will nose dive more into corners and when on the brakes. But I want to see how it handles consecutive compressions through rock gardens. Hopefully its improved.
I have found that the DRCV shock on my 2011 R8 is more trouble than it is worth. I have had the bike about 4 months and every time I ride I have to mess with it. It bottoms all the time or it is to stiff. Personally I am looking at replacing it with a coil. The problem with that is that the shock measures at 7.75/ 2.25 which is a custom size. Thus far the only option is to put a smaller shock in that will slacken the bike and lower the BB. Oh and I am still debating if I should get it PUSHED or if that too will be just a waste of time and money.
Push does not work on DRCV shocks.
According to the website they do. have you checked it lately?
Push will work on DRCV rear shocks but not DRCV forks just yet.
Oh wow I must be way out of date. I remember looking last year, and Darren said at that time they were not even considering doing DRCV. I am glad that changed!!
So what do pushed do? Its a shame you go to spend money a bike that should just work straight off the floor.
So I took the bike out on the trails this morning with the new pressure settings, which are way off what trek reccomends on their website calculator.
It felt better, I played with the rebound too, slowing down the rear and speeding up the front a bit. I achieved full travel only minutes into the ride hitting rock gardens at speed. I don't know if its just me but I thought using 150mm of full travel would feel plushhhhhhh! At leasts thats what I bought the bike for, to feel like I am coasting through the rough stuff. But I stil have to say, it felt rough. I have ridden smaller travel bikes that feel plusher? I am starting to wonder if DRCV is for me? It kinda feels like riding a cross country bike at some times.
Don't get me wrong the bike has many positives, it the best bike Ive ever ridden for technical climbing, sure footed and stable. It eats up trail chatter, and loves to be in the air and feels great on landings. Its just the medium sized hits feel so damn rough, its such a shame.
I need to ride my stumpjumper fsr again next week to compare the rides to make double sure. But I am starting to think I should have bought the EVO?
Interested, I'm guessing you can't tune it for all situations? Can you tune it for one scenario but not the other?
Went out for another ride this morning and after doing some reading during the week on suspension, someone said if your suspension feels harsh try speeding up your rebound. So I tried speeding up my rebound quite significantly. Wow, what a difference! The bike is actually starting to track through the rock gardens and doesn't feel as harsh any more. I think I am close to getting it near spot on for me. Just a bit of fine tuning left to do.
It took quite a few weeks of getting used to, but I am starting to love this bike now.
Does anyone do drops with the DRCV? I blew through my shock, and ended up bending the wheel (stans flow) into my deraileur (in 3rd gear) and took out 5 spokes b/c the DCRV won't handle drops. This was only a 4ft drop. I am a 190lbs with 230psi in it. I feel like I can't get enough air in the the shock. I want to replace it, damn trek has proprietary dimensions. Im calling PUSH in the morning to see what they can do. Otherwise I am opening the shock to remove the valve... if it can be done.
BTW, it was a clean drop. I even stayed on the bike with all that happened.
Do you really think a non drcv shock would have prevented a bent wheel:D
Originally Posted by jsdnj
Yes i think it would have helped. Because when the shock bottoms out, all of the energy is instantly transfered to the wheels and frame of the bike. It becomes like doing a drop with a hardtail.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the PE of being in the air has to go somewhere when landing and the rear shock should change the rate of the energy between the bike and the ground. When landing with a hardtail the transfer of energy is immediate. The transfer of energy would be slower, probably to a calculable rate, with a shock. I don't know if it would make a difference, but logically, the way I see it, it does.
I am willing to listen to another point of view.
Come on. If you did a drop and blew out a wheel, doesn't matter what shock was on the bike, it would have done the same thing.
What bike are you on? Remedy or Fuel?
Originally Posted by jsdnj
I would think it would have to be a pretty hard hit, going through all your travel should've taken some of the energy even if you bottomed it out. I'm guessing the hit must not have been perpendicular to the wheel, did you land off camber or on a rock that would have put a large lateral force on the wheel?
Just Blew my rear DRCV shock on my 2012 Rumblefish yesterday. Only 4 months of riding and I don't do big drops.I'm not a fan of this design. Give me a normal Float RP23.
on a Rumblefish 2. Clean landing.
Has anyone run a "normal" shock? Just curious how the suspension is with out a specially tuned shock.
I'm interested in this as well, keep the comments coming! I'm looking at picking up a 2012 Remedy 8, but am not really sure about the DRCV thing. I move away from a Fox Float RL because of stanchion and stiction issues, and ended up going with a heavier but buttery smooth RS Sektor Coil.
I like the R8, but would rather have a Revelation 150 on the front than the DRCV thing. From what I hear so far, it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth.
I got a Rumblefish Elite 3 weeks ago with DRCV front and rear. It took at least 10 rides to get the suspension dialed in. Tire pressure is also an important element of the process. On the forks a difference of 5 psi can mean diving or not in the corners. Also the fork seemed pretty sticky in the first 1/3 of the travel. I changed the fork oil at about 20 hours and found that it was short 35cc on the damper side. Refilled with the correct amount and it now works great!
I appreciate the info, I'll make sure to check out the fluid level when I get it. This seems to be a theme with Fox, my Float 140RL was exactly the same way.
It is surprising to see that people are having so many issues with the DRCV. I love how fluid my bike feels with the DRCV in the front and back (2012 Fuel EX8). I did however run about 5-10 psi less in the fork which made it feel better but the rear shock has always felt great!
since my fuel ex 8 is my first full suspension bike, i set the fork and shock to the recommended settings and left it alone.
got about 130miles on it now and finally started playing with both the fork and shock.
i weigh about 192ish so with bike gear and water...210?? i dont know, never checked all geared up.
my current settings for pressure are:
not sure where the clickers are but the bike feels great!
What do you think I could sell a 120mm DRCV fork off a rumblefish for? Kashima coat off a RF Pro. New.
Not sure what you could sell it for but it makes no sense to sell it. The Engineers at Trek wouldn't put this product out if it wasn't good.
Originally Posted by Burrows
I would refer to the suspension setup guide on the trek site and give it another ride, you might be surprised.
I'm loving it on my Remedy, it just feels like the bike floats over most things. Took a couple of rides to dial in to ensure all travel being used but were there now. The sag adjusters included were a great help just to ake sure I had some good base settings.
For the physicists in the forum (all 2 of you ;). Is there any way to tune this shock? Could the pushrod be slightly shortened so that the second air chamber opens under higher pressure, or are the two chambers specifically sized in relation to each other? I like the DRCVl, but have the same issues as other posters on big hits (it always bottoms out). It seems that, not without some irony, the DRCV has succeeded in being so like a coil that it also has the coils primary weakness which is everyone needs a different coil depending on their weight etc. Am I right here?
Not quite: More or less air pressure effectively gives you any coil you need.
Originally Posted by hungrytiger
But both fork and shock are more linear than a regular air fork/shock. I ride a Rumblefish Pro, and the bike does use a lot of its travel indeed.
I'm about to travel to Wales to ride some trailcentres, so i'm about to find out what the bke is capable of :-) .
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/7352207" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="375" width="500"></iframe> The Trek/Fox DRCV rear shock demonstrated from nsmb.com on Vimeo.
For the shock: a small spacer in the secondary air chamber, decrasing the size of that chamber, thus adding prgressivity might do the trick?
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tz-2i6l3BJU" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
For the fork: normally, adding a bit of oil in the primary air chamber makes the fork more progressive. Don't think it'll work in the DRCV though.
The oil will might find it's way to the secondary air chamber, making it smaller, but... i don't know if it'll sink deeper into the lower spring rod guide.
For both: what would increasing the high speed compression shims do?
I had a Remedy 9.8 set as my next bike (to sort of replace my trusty 2009 Intense Tracer VPP), but after reading this thread I may as well just scratch this bike altogether - it's a shame because I always liked the previous Remedy generations.
Has anyone contacted Trek directly? This seems to be a serious issue, at least in my opinion.
I'm actually quite happy with the DRCV performance of my Fuel EX 8. Granted, I'm not a very experienced rider, but I am confident that I'd be unable to tell the difference between my fork/shock vs. something else "better". All in all I think it performs to it's intended purpose rather well.
Perhaps those unhappy are riding beyond the intended capibilities of the bike/fork/shock setup? Just a thought?
I guess for the sake of completeness, my EX 8 has had the fork fitted with the FiT RLC dampning cartridge which replaced the O/B RL cartridge. The rear shock has also been replaced with the RP3 from the Fuel EX 9.
I love the drcv shock and fork to each there own, but don't get the 9.8 remedy because a few people on this forum don't like it or are having troubles setting it up. I have had none of these problems and can only speak good about trek and drcv shocks and forks............
Just to clarify my own position on this. I am not saying the DRCV is a bad shock, the Remedy is the most accomplished rear suspension design I have ever ridden (although whether that is due to the split pivot design or the shock itself, I couldn't say). The rear end tracks superbly well and theres absolutely no issues with general trail riding.
The largest drops I do are are 3-4 feet vertical distance (not pinkbike feet, real feet) and I have no desire to do anything larger. All I'm saying is that in these instances the shock blows through all the travel much easier than your regular RP2 (in most instances the sag ring is actually off the end of the piston). Try and tune this out with more air and it becomes extremely harsh very quickly. If you do bigger drops than this then I personally would steer away from the Remedy, if however you go 3-4 feet max once in a while then its difficult to beat. I'm keeping this bike for 2 or 3 years, so it works for me.I would however actively look into any option for tuning the shock to make it slightly more progressive towards the end of the travel.
Originally Posted by mark747
When you cycle the shock/fork to fill the small DRCV chamber, are you removing the pump first, then cycle the shock to open the second chamber, and then repumping to correct PSI?
Do you pump to correct PSI, then with the pump still attached cycle the shock, and then continue pumping again?
I know it sounds like a small difference but if i dont have to remove the pump between the 2 fills, then makes life bit easier.
My LBS demonstated by removing the pump in between
Just got back from a week in breck, crested butte, steamboat, and winter park. My 2011 remedy, with 2012 drcv fork, did it all. I tuned it a little lss than trek recommended psi, and it was amazing.
Rainmaker, the drops on no quarter, trestle dh run, this bike is way more capable than I would have thought.
Wasn't sure i'd like the linear feel of DRCV, but man i fell in love with it at winter park.
175lbs rider with gear, 175psi in the rear shock, 75 psi in fork.
So I had to send in my DRCV rear shock and front fork for the second time both for the same issues.
In February they had replaced the stanchion/crown/steer tube on the fork because of a creaking noise that it developed after about 150 miles. The rear shock was replaced after the first weekend that I had the bike - It would leek air out over night. And about three weeks ago after a little over 500 miles the rear shock blew out at the end of a ride and the creaking sound had come back in the fork.
According to my LBS they just replaced the fork with a new one Ė hopefully without DRCV because I had said I would pay for an upgrade.
Iím still waiting on the rear shock. The first time it went out they just sent me a brand new replacement this time the guy at my LBS said that the Fox warranty guy told him that they finally had found a fix for the issue and that mine was fixed and on the way. I think somebody dropped the ball because it still hasnít gotten here and it has been a week since they said it was shipped.
I know they shop deals with Fox over the warranty for their products but I wonder if they can get Trek involved. These are issues that I have had with a brand new bike from day one. Iím wondering if Fox just looks at it as a guy having a problem with a $300 shock or an $800 fork so it's not hat big an issue to them?. Trek should step up and say here is a customer that is having issues with a $5,000 bike that has faulty components.
Itís too bad Trek and Fox donít monitor these forums and give some input.
Iíve had to cancel a trip to Sun Valley tomorrow for a week of ridingÖ so now I am done with my rant.
2013: Trek will offer two differet "easy drop in" spacers for the DRCV forks, to change the spring rate from linear to more progressive...
Nice, should you need it :)
Will the spacers work on 2012 model DRCV forks?
Originally Posted by de lars cuevas
I also read somewhere spacers will be available for DRCV shocks? will this be retrospective?
I don't know for certain, but I'd be shocked if 2012 DRCV forks couldn't accept the spacers. Fox forks internals don't change drastically year to year, and they aren't rocket science to take apart and tinker with.
Originally Posted by Red Ant
Trek now offers spacer kits to fine tune the spring curve of its proprietary, Fox-made DRCV (Dual Rate Control Valve) forks. Two optionsó5cc and 10ccóreduce the air spring to provide a more progressive curve. The kits work with 120mm, 130mm and 150mm Fox 32 forks for 26-inch and 29er wheels.
2013 Trek Mountain Bikes | Bicycling Magazine
Maybe these will help with some of the complaints.
No complaints by me yet, first impression is that it does use a lot of travel, literally all of it's travel on big hits. But that's what it's there for, right?
Originally Posted by Britishnate
I didn't get the impressiopn that it's too divy yet.
btw: 75kg with gear, about 80 PSI on a Rumblefish Pro
This looks like a pretty simple solution to making the fork more progressive. Better anyway than people sawing up the piston rod on their Fox Floats to get full travel.
So it soiunds you should go 10-15 PSI less than what Trek is saying for the Fork?
I know how Mark 747 feels. My LBS went through my 2012 Remedy 8 two times chasing a creak. Thought it was the frame, turns out it was the fork. Waiting for it to be returned. I too have have had the same problems/results with tuning the suspension. Hopefully the spacers will work in the 2012 160 MM forks as well.
I'm curious about why Trek doesn't equip Slash's with DRCV forks?
Any particular reason behind?