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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanditRides View Post
    Yes not all Rig riders have this issue but maybe they are not 6'4 220+ like me.
    Yeah yeah I know you are a big guy too but you probably ride like a *****!
    Reading you posts makes me want to punch you in the face!
    lol. I'm the same size as you. I've had no problems with my Rig whatsoever. I don't know anyone who does have any sort of problem. What I have noticed though is the people that generally have problems are the ones that work on their own bike and fail at it.

    Are you sure the wheel was actually in the dropout properly? Was the QR skewer actually tight? If it's moving you didn't tighten the hardware enough. Simple as that. The bolts that people were claiming to fail in the beginning were never designed to hold chain tension, they are simply there to tension the chain. The 5mm allen bolts hold the wheel in place. If they aren't tight enough they will slip. Make those tight and check them every once in a while.

    I find it interesting that every few months there is someone completely new that jumps on the board and claims they had some major failure with no evidence whatsoever to support that claim. If your QR isn't tight, the wheel CAN come off any bike. I've been riding with guys and seen it happen. Set your bike up right and do yourself a favor and check the fasteners before you ride.

    As for this happening to "everybody" and the bolts bending for "everyone" is the part that I have issue with. This forum is the only place I've read that the Rig has a "problem" with it's dropout. Among those that claim that this has happened to them, there MIGHT be half a dozen people. Half a dozen out of THOUSANDS of bikes doesn't say there is something wrong with the bike.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    hi there, first-post-rage guy! no need to bust out the emo rage and butthurt before we get to know you!

    there now, have a chiclet and be chill...
    I'm not here to make friends with people who are not helpful, I just want to fix my bike.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    lol. I'm the same size as you. I've had no problems with my Rig whatsoever. I don't know anyone who does have any sort of problem. What I have noticed though is the people that generally have problems are the ones that work on their own bike and fail at it.

    Are you sure the wheel was actually in the dropout properly? Was the QR skewer actually tight? If it's moving you didn't tighten the hardware enough. Simple as that. The bolts that people were claiming to fail in the beginning were never designed to hold chain tension, they are simply there to tension the chain. The 5mm allen bolts hold the wheel in place. If they aren't tight enough they will slip. Make those tight and check them every once in a while.

    I find it interesting that every few months there is someone completely new that jumps on the board and claims they had some major failure with no evidence whatsoever to support that claim. If your QR isn't tight, the wheel CAN come off any bike. I've been riding with guys and seen it happen. Set your bike up right and do yourself a favor and check the fasteners before you ride.

    As for this happening to "everybody" and the bolts bending for "everyone" is the part that I have issue with. This forum is the only place I've read that the Rig has a "problem" with it's dropout. Among those that claim that this has happened to them, there MIGHT be half a dozen people. Half a dozen out of THOUSANDS of bikes doesn't say there is something wrong with the bike.
    Well this time it was the shop that worked on my bike and failed.
    The reason why I'm getting p'd off and it's probably that same with the other guys on here is we get treated like idiots. Don't you think we would have already tried cranking on those slider bolts as hard as we could?
    Who cares if it's only half a dozen bikes that are having issues, somebody is going to get seriously injured or killed.
    I love my Rig, i think it absolutely sheds on everything i throw it at but Trek failed with the dropout design... good bike... bad dropouts and hardware.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    What I have noticed though is the people that generally have problems are the ones that work on their own bike and fail at it.
    This is not necessarily true. I have taken my rig to both of my local trek dealers and neither one has been able to set up the bike so that I can make it through a single ride without everything sliding around in the rear. It seems that most posters dealing with this issue have not had any luck with their LBS.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanditRides View Post
    Well this time it was the shop that worked on my bike and failed.
    The reason why I'm getting p'd off and it's probably that same with the other guys on here is we get treated like idiots. Don't you think we would have already tried cranking on those slider bolts as hard as we could?
    Who cares if it's only half a dozen bikes that are having issues, somebody is going to get seriously injured or killed.
    I love my Rig, i think it absolutely sheds on everything i throw it at but Trek failed with the dropout design... good bike... bad dropouts and hardware.
    The point is that it can't be a bad design if it's only a small number of bike affected. There are always going to be failures and what's reported here is less than .1% of all bikes sold. Perhaps my manufacturing/business background give a different perspective but a less than 1% failure rate in manufacturing terms is an accomplishment.

    The way I see it is this. Bike was new which yielded some chain stretch. Re-tension. Then what? It loses tension every time you ride it? Check to make sure the chain isn't stretching every time you ride it. Also there should be some slack in the chain. It isn't supposed to be super tight. There has to be some play because neither chainrings or cogs are perfectly round/flat. If you tension the chain tight and hit the even tighter spot because your chainring isn't actually round, it WILL pull the wheel in the dropout because you are dramatically changing the forces at play.

    Simply cranking the bolts isn't a solution if the chain is too tight. To be honest, most people don't try to fix anything themselves and the ones that do generally have no idea what they are doing. Unfortunately the same can be said for many bike shop "mechanics" that also have no idea what they are doing.

    I dislike it when people spread misinformation in the haste of disappointment and frustration. There is nothing wrong with the design. There are simply WAY too many out there in working order for that to be the case. To assume the frame is the problem without looking into the other components that make it a bike also makes little sense.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    There are simply WAY too many out there in working order for that to be the case.
    If you read through the Trek Rig reviews posted in the "Reviews" section of mtbr you'll find that 10 out of 13 reviews mention problems/weaknesses with the sliding dropouts. 13 is a tiny sample and not large enough to make any conclusions about the scale of the flaw. I know you think the problem is limited to less than 1 percent of the bikes manufactured. At the same time, while your bike works for you, I doubt that you have any basis to realistically conclude that the thousands of other bikes that you have not observed are working correctly.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdwhitey View Post
    If you read through the Trek Rig reviews posted in the "Reviews" section of mtbr you'll find that 10 out of 13 reviews mention problems/weaknesses with the sliding dropouts. 13 is a tiny sample and not large enough to make any conclusions about the scale of the flaw. I know you think the problem is limited to less than 1 percent of the bikes manufactured. At the same time, while your bike works for you, I doubt that you have any basis to realistically conclude that the thousands of other bikes that you have not observed are working correctly.
    With all that said what percentage of people do you think that post positive reviews about a working product? Also I have access to the production numbers for these bikes. It is not my personal opinion that there are thousands of these bikes in use. I personally own two bikes with this dropout design. The Rig and the Sawyer; though my Sawyer has gears. I have observed at around 20 bikes with this dropout design in use. 3 or 4 Sawyers, a dozen or so Rigs and 4 or 5 Marlin SS. None of them have had a single issue.

    My estimation of 1% is based on the fact that there have been maybe a dozen or so people that claim theirs has failed. Well just as an FYI Trek sold over 500 Rigs in 2011 per size alone. If you factor in the Sawyer and Marlin SS over TWO model years at an average of 300 units per model year per size, that would give you around 8000 bikes. Even if there were 400 bikes that failed that would still a failure rate of .05%. Now this doesn't include yet to be broken frames, though I haven't heard of a broken one either. 10 or 20 bikes is nothing compared to the scope that they are produced.

    I think it's no coincidence that the easiest thing to do wrong on a SS bike is the only problem with the bike.
    Last edited by GTR-33; 07-05-2012 at 07:30 PM.

  8. #83
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    GTR-33,

    I am glad your Rig works. Since you have access to inside information, what are the torque specs for those slider bolts?

    Thanks!

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    If it's moving you didn't tighten the hardware enough. Simple as that.
    I tried tightening the non drive side slider bolt a little more than normal and the bolt snapped in two.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdwhitey View Post
    GTR-33,

    I am glad your Rig works. Since you have access to inside information, what are the torque specs for those slider bolts?

    Thanks!
    Also would be curious if there is some sort of order they should be torqued in.

  11. #86
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    I love threads like this. Shows me what companies to never buy from.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    ....... that would give you around 8000 bikes. Even if there were 400 bikes that failed that would still a failure rate of .05%...
    400 out of 8000 = 0.05% ??
    Oh dear, not a mathematician nor an engineer are you. One decimal place out might be excusable; but two?!

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaseyDC View Post
    Also would be curious if there is some sort of order they should be torqued in.

    Use you head. The little tiny bolts are set screws to define the position, they are never meant to hold any appreciable amount of force. Also, use a torque wrench when tightening the locking bolts, not necessarily to hit a torque spec, but the make sure it's even. Nothing causes bolts to loosen quicker than uneven torquing.

    I had a 2012 Marlin SS and I only touched the sliding dropouts once after the initial chain "stretch".

  14. #89
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    Gtr-33 here is the evidence of the major design flaw. First off the hardware sucks. I purchased my Rig used for $450 bucks knowing there may be issues with the dropouts. The person I bought it from bought a Niner and literally only rode this bike 2 times. As you can see from the photo it is in new condition with the stock wheels and skewers:


    The major problem is the fact that the skewer comes into direct contact with the frame, this does not allow the axle to sit all the way into the dropouts. You can see where the skewer has been hitting the frame on mine:



    These photos by another Rig owner are a little better:



    I too have contacted Trek. My fix was to use grade 8 hardware and file down the skewer so it does not hit the frame. This has solved my problem and I am overall pretty happy considering I only dropped $450 on the bike. But the response from Trek stating that they are not aware of any issues is just plain lame. Clearly from a simple google search I located 8 other threads on several sites regarding issues with the 2012 Rig. Them playing dumb like this really pisses me off. I contacted them to find out if there is replacement dropouts available. Clearly some bikes got different dropouts that are not problematic. But it appears a large percentage recieved dropouts that are dangerous. Trek needs to do the right thing. Seems pretty simple to me. Design a bolt on dropout that is a few mm longer. How hard could that be?
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  15. #90
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    HI, i have been using my trek marlin ss and had no problemswith it. i Have beaten the sh&* out of it and it never did slide the axles.
    my trek is a 2012 model.

  16. #91
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    Hey guys. Been working with Trek on this issue. They sent me out a 2013 Rig frame and also some brand new CNC machined Single Speed Dropouts. Unfortunately still doing the same thing. Slipping still. I have had every Rig from Gen1 to now. Everyone had problems. Every slider dropout frame slipped no matter what i was told to do by trek.

    Keep an eye open will create a new thread and post updates on what is going on.

  17. #92
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    Just chiming in here... I bought a 2012 rig and only got about five miles on it... same problems as everyone else on here. I hung it up in the garage to mess with when I get the time. Well its been hanging there for over a year.. I have met two other people on the trail with the same bike and same problems.. both claim they fixed the problem with grade 8 or stainless steel bolts.. I guess someday ill do something with it but In the meantime I fixed the problem by purchasing a Kona Unit.. Since that fix I haven't had any problems at all.. hahaha

  18. #93
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    I have a Superfly 2009 with the horizontal track end drops. The bike came stock with shimano hubs that have the steel serated nuts that rub on the inside of the dropouts. with standard shimano QR's the wheel did not slip. however when I upgraded to stans hub which are aluminum the wheel would slip no matter how tight I made the QR's. I believe the problem in many cases is that the aluminum hub does not provide enough friction to keep the wheel slipping.
    I took the bike into the shop a few time and they couldnt come up with any solution besides two tug nuts, but to get the tug to not rub against the driveside hub where the cassette goes they had to mount the tug on the inside of the dropouts effectively increasing my spacing from 135mm to 137 or so. I didn't like that so I came up with a light more bullet proof solution. I cant believe they don't sell something like this and if they do please tell me where.
    the solution is to install the chain and measure the space in the dropout between the hub and front inside edge of dropout, then use an angle grinder to make a small piece of metal that will fill the void perfectly when the chain is at the desired tension. that way there is absolutely no way for the wheel to move. I have used this method successfully for at lease 200 miles.

    not sure if there is a slot on these other types of dropout where a small piece of metal could also be wedged in to provide a similar solution.....

  19. #94
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    I have tried selling my old 2011 rig frame, but no luck. It's good to see nothing has changed...I have thought abiut rebuilding the frame using the new hardware but have lost energy on this thing. I wanted to upgrade the ehadset as well if I go in that direction, but given what the bearings look like I'd expect that removing the headset will be a major effort.

    I know there are Rig lovers out there and some who tinker with frames and get them working right. The bike actually rode great when it wasn't slipping the wheel. Pm me if you are interested in another project.

  20. #95
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    Well I still have had no problems with the TWO bikes I have had with these dropouts. Sold the Rig and now on a Sawyer since 2011 with no issues.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Well I still have had no problems with the TWO bikes I have had with these dropouts. Sold the Rig and now on a Sawyer since 2011 with no issues.
    Like I said two years ago, I am glad your Rig worked for you. You are very fortunate. My Trek Rig did not work. Fortunately for me, Trek acknowledged the problem with my bike and gave me a new bike under warrantee.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Well I still have had no problems with the TWO bikes I have had with these dropouts. Sold the Rig and now on a Sawyer since 2011 with no issues.

    Maybe you don't climb many steep hills? Maybe you are light?

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdwhitey View Post
    Like I said two years ago, I am glad your Rig worked for you. You are very fortunate. My Trek Rig did not work. Fortunately for me, Trek acknowledged the problem with my bike and gave me a new bike under warrantee.
    It was a Superfly too wasn't it? Sold?

  24. #99
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    I have my eye on a used 2013 rig. Does the 2013 frame have the same issues as the 2011/2012? Can't find much info. If it does I may pass but it is a nice looking bike for a good price so thought I'd ask.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieDog View Post
    I have my eye on a used 2013 rig. Does the 2013 frame have the same issues as the 2011/2012? Can't find much info. If it does I may pass but it is a nice looking bike for a good price so thought I'd ask.
    I have some of the more outrageous crticial posts on my Rig on mtbr, but it is a nice frame absent the droput/tensioner issues. I had read in a mountain bike magazine review that it was fixed for 2013. But never got that confirmed from my LBS where I bought the bike. The LBS first response was that it wasn't supposed to be "public info". That probably got the interest of the NSA so they probably have a file on this turd, too. Then the wonderful LBS stopped returning my emails and calls to find out. Long story short, I went to a different Trek LBS and they happily ordered the replacement tensioner hardware from Trek. They never heard of the probelm so there was nothing to fix or warranty. I paid for the tensioner hardware, installed it myself and finally after a year of Craigslist ads sold ithe frame for $150.

    One way for you to check, is to remove the rear wheel and look at the non drive side drop puts. If there are no marks in there, then this frame likely has the problem, unless of course it has never been ridden. I don't know how you would tell if the tensioner hardware is the stronger stuff.

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