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  1. #1
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    2008 Trek Preview at Cyclingnews.com

    It looks like Trek has some interesting things up there sleeves for their 2008 mountain bike line up. Check it out -

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...k_mtb_launch07

  2. #2
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    I like the rear axle pivot but... cosmetically, next year's Treks look just like Specialized. The new Madone looks just like a Tarmac and the colorways are very Specialized like, even the downtube with the curve near the BB... But looks are not that important, the new EX looks like a good bike and the new rear suspension layout is very interesting indeed.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

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    I wonder how much "better" or "noticeable" the braking improvement will be over the 1-Year-Only EX 9.5 and the rest of the line.....
    The new Rocker does look like an improvement though, not that the old one was "bad".

    - I'm glad to see Trek FINALLY step-up the game to the level of it's competitors. If these bikes are "better" than last years EX's it should be a good year for Trek.

    Oh yeah, Trek, if you're listening, PLEASE LOSE THE GOOFY 12-DEGREE STEM, THE "XC" WIDTH HANDLEBAR, AND ARSE-HATCHET SEAT! Last years bike had an "identity-crisis" IMO.

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    hmm, well I still dont get how do they mimic the floating disc brake affect...from the pics, it looks like a normal rear triangle

  5. #5
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    I'm sure it's more marketing than a real world feelable change, that's what bike launches are all about.

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  6. #6
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    Cool pics. The bikes look sweet. I can't even imagine what they will be pricing these new models at.
    Tom G.
    Long Island, NY

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    Looks like Dave Weagle's new Split Pivot Design

    Check out www.split-pivot.com

    Active braking plus great lateral rigidity for the frame. This could be a huge step forward for Trek to use a more sophisticated patented suspension system like this. All the benefits of a floating brake without the complexity!

    Looks awfully similar...
    Last edited by DeZender; 06-08-2007 at 01:28 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeZender
    Check out www.split-pivot.com

    Active braking plus great lateral rigidity for the frame. This could be a huge step forward for Trek to use a more sophisticated patented suspension system like this. All the benefits of a floating brake without the complexity!

    Looks awfully similar...
    Well, Trek might just be one of the companies to use the split-pivot patent and pay the royalties...

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  9. #9
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    First thing i thought was that it looked rather specialized like too.

    Tougher rocker? Sweet. I always thought it looked a little wimpy compared to the designs of most others.

    Floating shock is interesting too. Wonder how that will perform for bigger guys like me.

    My concern is if that general design will be available for the same price level as the ex8/7 now. Hrm. Of course i want a new bike in july and now might have to just wait until august to see the 08 specs before buying.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordy
    My concern is if that general design will be available for the same price level as the ex8/7 now. Hrm. Of course i want a new bike in july and now might have to just wait until august to see the 08 specs before buying.

    Ditto!! Always something better to come, isn't there?

  11. #11
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    My LBS says the MSRP for the 08 9.5 is $6600 and $4400 for the 08 9.0. I think that is close to the 07 prices.

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    I don't think they're paying dw for the new rear pivot deign. If they were they would probably be calling it the same thing. And at this point they're not, the dw is referred to as the split pivot and it appears trek's has been dubbed the abp (active braking pivot).

    I think I smell a legal battle in the making!! Is it possible that they both came up with this design independently and just happened to both unveil then a basically the same time?

    At this point I don't doubt it. Everyone has been so hush hush this year about the new products. It seems that most brands are being extremely secretive and largely don't really know what the others are up to till the new designs are released. I heard that trek came down hard on some employees who were divulging info to fokls outside the company before the new designs were officially unveiled.

    As far as the bikes look I am pretty stoked. There was definitely a big step up in overally quality from 06 to 07 and it looks like the same thing for 08. Curious to see how it rides and how it performs now under breaking especially now with the newdesign changes. I am also especially excited to see what trek has planned for the other bikes in their lineup!!

  13. #13
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    it's the split pivot design licensed from DW

    Trek has done the licensing thing before. Remember the Palomino?

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    Yes but they didn't try to disguise it as something they came up with themselves. My feeling is that they both came up with the design independently but who knows.. .I just think that if Trek were paying for the rights to use the design they would be calling it the same thing. Like all of the other dw designed bikes that have the "dwlink" logo somewhere on the frame. Whereas on the Trek, the logo by the dropout seems to be indicating that they are showing off some new Trek proprietary design, ann therefore not calling it the "split pivot". This has got me intrested though I will definitely be calling our inside rep tomorrow to get the lowdown.

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    The lowdown is they licensed the split pivot from dw. Trek doesn't know how to build an FS bike. Gary Fisher can help them with geometry and wheels, but a real FS design. That's not coming from Wisconsin.

    license your way to mediocrity. Go Trek.

    check it, a quote from the designer dw himself

    "I don't think that Split Pivot could be lighter than dw-link in an ideal world, but it can make a pretty light bike without too much cost. dw-link is structurally pretty hard to beat.

    Is this bike going to be better than a dw-link bike? Sadly, no."

    So Trek is building a sub par bike, that is cheap to manufacture. Good for their bottom line, not so good for riding.
    Last edited by Gripshiftrules; 06-12-2007 at 07:36 AM.

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    Wow that's kinda strange. License a design and then change the name to make it look like a trek innovation. That's not so cool... It doesn't mean the bike won't be cool, but that's just a bit strange on their part. It seems like if they were going to licesnse the new dw design they would be open with that information because of dw's good reputation as a suspension designer. Just out of curiosity how did you find out?

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    What's wrong with improving their designs, even if that involves licensing?

    As far as being "cheap" to build, I doubt that Wisconsin is cheaper than Taiwan.

    Turner is one good example of quality single pivots, and I for one applaud Trek for stepping up their game too... it looks like the details and thinking that went into this frame are anything but cheap.

    Ultimately, however, we need to ride it to know. I'd still hazard a guess that is an improvement over their current offerings, and that's what I want from evolution.

  18. #18
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    Its totally reasonable to license a product but change it. Its probably cheaper to pay to borrow a design, and us it to help implement a new one, then it is to steal a design and hide it under a new one, and get sued.

  19. #19
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    It depends of the licensing terms, it's never the same, sometimes you are forced to use the name, put a logo, such things. Sometimes, you just pay to use it. Cannondale licenses the BB30 standard that is used by Specialized but they make it look like it's their own invention without any mention of Cannondale and the BB30 name...

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sessionrider
    Wow that's kinda strange. License a design and then change the name to make it look like a trek innovation. That's not so cool...
    Hmmmmm..... sounds a LOT like Ford licensing Toyota's hybrid auto technology, but never really mentioning that fact to the public. I figure if they pay for the rights to the technology, heck, let them rebadge it however they like - they already paid for it.

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    I don't see anything wrong with Trek licensing the new dw design especially in the name of improving their bikes. I sell treks, I ride a trek, and they certainly make a host of great bikes. It's just when I saw the new design I thought, wow thats a cool innovation and look it's called active braking pivot (a trademarked term by the way) and I was pretty stoked at the way the new bike looked. So it's not their design, big deal, in the name of innovation I am all for it. I am just slighly put off by the fact that they are calling is something different if they are indeed paying for the rights to use it. But hey, if that's what is necessary for trek to step up their game as far as fs design goes, more power to them. I also have an ibis mojo and I definitely don't knock ibis for licensing the origional dw link for their bike. Then again they're not referring to their design as the ibislink bike, no, they call it, oh, what was that, oh yeah, the DWLINK...

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    it's Trek's design, they have a patent pending.

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    Ahhh now that's what I talking about, go trek!!! I thought that it would be fishy for trek to try and pass of someone elses design as their own. Well all I can say is I can't wait to try out the new bikes. They do look pretty sweet indeed. Curious thing is the new dw split pivot design is also currently patent pending, hmmm....

  24. #24
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    Wait, after looking closer, comparing the dw link tech demo website to these pictures, i just don't see how they are the same. The DW link has the extra (VPP like) linkage behind the bottom bracket connecting to the seat stays, this design does not. This design has the shock linked to the chain stays directly in a sort of see-saw.

  25. #25
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    well, they are not talking bout DW Link, they are comparing Trek's Active Brake..... with Dave Weagle latest patent pending inovation, the Split Pivot because it looks exactly the same.

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    Yeah the DW Link is a dual link design. However the new "split pivot" design just released by DW is essentially a singlepivot design with a concentric rear pivot around the rear axle, which is designed to reduce the effect of braking forces on the rear suspension.

    Just finished watching the promo vid on trek u and both of the suspension designers responsible for the new EX design stated that the ABP is unique to trek.

  27. #27
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    ok, i haven't seen the other dw design i guess.

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    Unique as in, we painted it with a Trek logo and picked our own color. It's the split pivot from DW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripshiftrules
    Unique as in, we painted it with a Trek logo and picked our own color. It's the split pivot from DW.
    wrong, it's completely different. the only thing that makes them the same is that they pivot around the wheel axle. look at the rest of the design. do you see a floating lower shock mount on the DW? no.

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    don't forget the completely different color too.... soooooo different.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripshiftrules
    T Trek doesn't know how to build an FS bike. Gary Fisher can help them with geometry and wheels, but a real FS design. That's not coming from Wisconsin.
    You're starting to sound like KleinAttitude .... relax, fool ... Geometry and wheels - yeah, I'm sure Trek needs GF's "help" (LOL he's owned by Trek, for chrissakes...)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuelish
    You're starting to sound like KleinAttitude .... relax, fool ... Geometry and wheels - yeah, I'm sure Trek needs GF's "help" (LOL he's owned by Trek, for chrissakes...)
    KleinAttitude, I had all but forgot him... Maybe he's in high school now...

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sessionrider
    Just finished watching the promo vid on trek u and both of the suspension designers responsible for the new EX design stated that the ABP is unique to trek.

    Where did you see this promo video?

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    Steamer19,

    The promo vid I was referring to is actually up on the trek university website which is an informational source for retailers that can only be accessed by trek dealers. Not sure if they will be putting it up on the main website but you might keep an eye out for it. I'm sure it will make its way on to the net at some point regardless.

  35. #35
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    The Trek design is not a "split-pivot" although clearly the designs are similar.
    For Trek to have proto models already produced they have clearly had the designs for a long time (I would gues+12 months)
    I guess that the patent lawyers will be deciding who does what.

    Previously Trek full sus designs have in my opinion been a little lacking the exciting dept. but since taking on that dude from Manitou they seem to be getting way, way better.

  36. #36
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    it's DW design

    look at DW site:
    http://www.split-pivot.com/index.html, put a rocker arm on the picture
    and you have...
    than read what DW says:
    DW Split Pivot Suspension System
    and here:
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/2007-Da...LIT-PIVOT.html
    “I’m thrilled to finally be able to show Split Pivot off. This has been something that I’ve worked on for quite a while, years actually, licensed to partners and talked to others behind closed doors, built prototypes, but nobody in the public has seen it yet. It’s so hard to keep something so exciting a secret for so long so I am glad that part is over. I think that riders are really going to enjoy this system. It allows for atypical pivot placement that works great for acceleration and bump absorption and the concentric dropout pivot lets me tune braking forces at the same time. Basically the Split Pivot bikes are a lot of fun to ride.”

    than go and see the last image in the post on pinkbike, what do ypu see?
    I see a fuel without the floating pivot point for the shock, maybe that is the true Trek design input...associated with DW one.

  37. #37
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    I know, they do look incredibly similar, and that's whats got everyone so baffled. I am really curoius what, if anything, will happen legally speaking between dw and trek.

    As for that last pic being a trek model I don't really see it. There are some substantial design differences between the two. The shape of the chainstays, the lack of a foating shock mount, the use of a 2 piece rocker arm, the gusseting on the headtube, the top tube-seattube brace, etc. All of these differences make me think that it's definitely not a trek model. My guess is iron horse but who really knows??

    I agree with klunky, their designs certainly have gotten a lot more interesting since the manitou guy showed up. I can't wait to see what the rest of their lineup looks like!!

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    I think legally Trek and DW have it worked out just fine. Trek is paying DW to use his design. nothing wrong with this. It would just be nice if Trek used the good DW design (dw link) as opposed to the cheap one to build, the split pivot.

    Better bikes make happier riders. bikes that bob when you pedal are less fun.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuelish
    Hmmmmm..... sounds a LOT like Ford licensing Toyota's hybrid auto technology, but never really mentioning that fact to the public. I figure if they pay for the rights to the technology, heck, let them rebadge it however they like - they already paid for it.
    Nobody makes their own sh*t anymore. There are patents on absolutely everything and all embodiments outside of them (layer talk on patents). Companies patent stuff that they will never use, so you always end up paying someone. I think there are still a few new ideas out there for suspentions, but you'll always end up on someone else's embodyment.

    Check it out:
    http://www.google.com/patents?q=rear+bike+suspensions

    Kyle
    - 3 Patents (not bike related)

  40. #40
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    eee

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    when does the 2008 treks usually hit stores? i was thinkin bout the picking up the fuel ex 8 last week but i think i might wait if the wait isnt long.. the new trek emblem looks cool

  42. #42
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    yea that '08 design looks sick. If it's out in just a couple months then i might just wait...

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    http://thisjustin.bicycling.com/2007...k_fuel_ex.html

    "<i>...I asked Trek, "So, what's the deal?" They told me Dave Weagle came by Trek to try and get them (Trek) to license Split Pivot several months ago. At that time, according to Trek, they (Trek) had been developing ABP for about a year. Neither party new </i>(sic)<i> of the other's design... "</i>
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  44. #44
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    So I'm looking over some geometry from the 07 EX line and the expected 08 EX line and I notice that the 08 EX bikes have slightly shorter chainstays and slightly more fork offset. I don't know if it's enough to be significant - we're talking milimeters, here. But, it struck me as odd considering that all the other numbers are consistent with the 07 specs. I wonder if Trek is trying out a little of Gary Fisher's G2 geometry...
    2007 Trek Fuel EX 8
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  45. #45
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    More info up about 08s on dirtrag: http://www.dirtragmag.com/blogarific/index.php

  46. #46
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    Mordy,

    Thanks for the link. Those were great write-ups.
    Tom G.
    Long Island, NY

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    I rode with Chris Eatough two days ago and he was rocking the new ex 9.0. The thing looks to ride like a dream he showed me the drop out thing very cool. I didn't ask to ride it do to the fact he had a race the next day but it looks sweet. One thing I did notice is he was riding the all aluminum model with full xtr and a reba in bright trek red. The one person who did ride it said it was supper plush and smooth. Thats my two cents.
    Trek T1 . MOJO SL 2011 Fox 32 Talas 1X10 FTW

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    Specs on '08s

    Mordy - where did you get "offset" specs on the 08s? or '07s for that matter

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