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  1. #1
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    Listen! 1999 Klein Attitude Comp Modernization and Rebuild

    in the next 2-3 weeks, i will be modernizing and rebuilding a 1999 Klein Attitude Comp. i bought the donor bike from craigslist for $220. i have an attachment to this frame because it was one of few frames that i lusted after in my teens and twenties.

    the bike partially stripped down.


    a little history of the bike- the original owner was a mild-manner pavement cyclist, so the bike never did see any hard trail riding. the bike has a non structural gouge on the chainstay near the bottom bracket.

    wounded chainstay- i tried to clean up the area a little and see if a touched-up paint will work.


    it looks like the result of a front derailleur malfunction causing the chain to bind with guide attachment near the bottom bracket and gouged into the bottom bracket and chainstay. the damage is cosmetic and non-structural. klein's chainstay are quite beefy.

    trek acquired klein in the mid 90's. klein mountain bikes are known to have internal cable routing to display their awesome paint job. i believe 1999 is the only year of the attitude that utilized the external cable routing similar to trek (which is easier to run the cables). also, the good thing about this model are the standard 73mm bottom bracket and the 1-1/8" threadless headset. it makes upgrading/modernization much easier.

    i also want to maintain the cantilevers braking system. this is difficult because high end suspension forks nowadays do not support v-brake bosses. i was fortunate enough to find the 2014 rock shox recon silver, which support the bosses. this shock is entry levelish or bottom end of median range. i would dare say it's an equivalent to a 2002 Fox F 80L? a bit heavier, maybe? but it is what it is. my other option is the rigid fork like the surly 1x1. i'll sacrifice a bit of weight for some plushness.

    2014 recon silver with v-brake bosses


    this fork is heavy at almost 5lbs (high end forks run around 3lbs). it does have nice internals such as solo air shock and open oil bath damper. the fork was $280 out the door.

    and so my journey begins
    Last edited by mazzystar; 08-19-2014 at 03:10 AM. Reason: grammar errors

  2. #2
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    Please re-size your pictures.

  3. #3
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    Hi Slash5...

    how do you resize the pictures? ... it shows up fine within the frame of my firefox browser.



    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    Please re-size your pictures.

  4. #4
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    The show up normal here as well, on Safari.
    Somec is like the digital Zunow
    And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5h3y0a9AU

  5. #5
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    looks fine, size-wise to me. are you on your mobile?
    Wanted: WTB rollercams and brake bridges

  6. #6
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    So the Manitou currently on the bike no longer works?

    The chain suck on that stay may need some attention, though I imagine that Klein had pretty beefy stays for this very reason. At any rate have fun with the build.

  7. #7
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    Looks like a fun project.

    Are you going to modernize a lot of the components are use what you have?

    John
    1995 Trek 970 - 80mm Atom Race
    1992 Serotta T-Max - 70mm Z3 Light
    1993 GT All Terra - 46mm Mag 21

  8. #8
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    the manitou still works. it is pristine with the exception of the graphics/stickers which i tried to peeled off and got half through. it uses the elastomer type dampening and coil.... i wanted to get pneumatic and oil bath. i going with the recon build because of the v-brake boss.

    i am going to wrap the stay. Still looking a resilient material for it.

    i am modernizing as much as i could. some components, i am going to keep until i find a component that i want to replace it with.

    some parts came in today.



    Stem- Kore Repute 50mm
    Handle Bar- ODI Flight Contol 25mm Rise
    Headset Spacer- Wheels Manufacturing Carbon 20mm
    Cassette- Shimano M771 10 Speed 11-36T
    Derailleur Front- Shimano XTR M985
    Shifter- Shimano XTR M980 10 Speed Front and Rear
    Crankset- Shimano XT M785 175mm 26/38T

    Quote Originally Posted by lewisfoto View Post
    So the Manitou currently on the bike no longer works?

    The chain suck on that stay may need some attention, though I imagine that Klein had pretty beefy stays for this very reason. At any rate have fun with the build.
    Quote Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
    Looks like a fun project.

    Are you going to modernize a lot of the components are use what you have?

    John

  9. #9
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    Cool-blue Rhythm frame ready to go

    today, the frame is ready for rebuilding. everything is cleaned. there is a traction tape on the down tube. the tape is from 3M and is used on stairs and landings to provide traction. for the chain stay, a frame wrap is on order from framewrap.com. i saw the 3M silicon tape, which does almost the same thing, but the 3M version did not say it was oil resistance but it is water/dust resistance (comes in a natural color). not that i will have oil all over the chain stay, but it is another element that it is protected.

    here is the ready-to-go frame.


    the hardest part before getting here was removal of the headset cups. this is what i learned- remove the top cup first then the bottom. there are headset cup removal tools, but for a one time job like this, you might not want to buy one. so i searched online and there was a solution to use a pipe (like copper). make four longitudinally cuts about 2-3 long and spread them so their overall diameter are in secure contact with the bottom of the top cup. rubber mallet the top cup out.

    for my removal tool, i used a 3/4" schedule 40 pipe and stuffed paper towel to expand the diameter. i was afraid that i might scratch the headset contact surface with a copper pipe, especially with murphy closely watching me.

    here is the removal tool that i made using 3/4" pvc pipe.


    for the bottom cup, things were trickier. the bottom cup is where all the load had been concentrated on and over time, the fitting became quite tight. the removal tool shown above did not perform. it broke while i tried malleting it out. i even tried hot water soak on the headset and reinforcing the pvc pipe with duct tape. but then a spark of ingenuity struck me... use a 1" schedule 40 pvc pipe. BAM! kick it up a notch! it was a perfect fit. two strikes with the mallet and it was out.

    here is a picture of the reinforced 3/4" (left) and the 1" (right) pvc pipe.


    from here, it's installation time!

  10. #10
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    I will say that you are going with some very nice components. XTR is first rate.

    I think this will be one of those love/hate builds, not unlike dropping a current fuel injected engine and 6 speed transmission with paddle shifters into a classic car. I'm more in the camp of build what you like because in the end you are taking an old bike sitting in a garage and getting it back on the trails where it belongs.

    I'd be interested to know how it rides with wide bars and a 50mm stem. Also you do need to replace that fork one of these days. It may take doing some research and buying used, hopefully mint/NOS, that can be maintained/rebuilt.

    As I have looked for canti/v-brake compatible forks, I've wondered if there is anyone who can mod a current one by attaching bosses.

    John
    1995 Trek 970 - 80mm Atom Race
    1992 Serotta T-Max - 70mm Z3 Light
    1993 GT All Terra - 46mm Mag 21

  11. #11
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    lol. yeah, it's a love/hate build. some will hate it because they think it's a waste of money to throw into an old frame. but i love it and that's what really matters it's a '69 mustang body with the latest modern tuned engine and suspension...lol.

    i am going to cut the handle bar to about my shoulder width, i have never been a fan of wide handlebars. i bought the odi because it was on sale with very good discount... like 40% off or something like that.

    about the fork, i learned that the rockshox recon gold series use the same lower leg as the silver model that i currently have with cantilever setup. so there is room for upgrades down the road. the recon gold series have better internals and are lighter than the silver. the recon silver and gold series are both user-maintainable.

    that would be interesting to see a clamp mount style around the lower leg assembly to support a cantilever on modern suspension forks. i would love to see that option available from various manufacturers.


    Quote Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
    I will say that you are going with some very nice components. XTR is first rate.

    I think this will be one of those love/hate builds, not unlike dropping a current fuel injected engine and 6 speed transmission with paddle shifters into a classic car. I'm more in the camp of build what you like because in the end you are taking an old bike sitting in a garage and getting it back on the trails where it belongs.

    I'd be interested to know how it rides with wide bars and a 50mm stem. Also you do need to replace that fork one of these days. It may take doing some research and buying used, hopefully mint/NOS, that can be maintained/rebuilt.

    As I have looked for canti/v-brake compatible forks, I've wondered if there is anyone who can mod a current one by attaching bosses.

    John

  12. #12
    gobsmacked Moderator
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    This thread could get more excitement in the Trek subforum. Let me know if you want it moved. Not really old enough to generate much enthusiasm here as surprising as that may seem to you since it's "old."

    Good on ya for fixing it up though!
    Wanted: WTB rollercams and brake bridges

  13. #13
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    Inspect the drive side dropout, that model year is know to crack where the replaceable hanger mounts to the frame. If you do bend the hanger be very careful straightening it.

  14. #14
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    chris king headset, shimano xt bottom bracket & paul motolite brakes

    Quote Originally Posted by scruffy mike View Post
    Inspect the drive side dropout, that model year is know to crack where the replaceable hanger mounts to the frame. If you do bend the hanger be very careful straightening it.
    i just checked that area thanks to your post it looks good, no damage!

    here is the headset.


    and here are the bottom bracket and rear cantilever brake.

  15. #15
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    We the people ... shimano hollowtech II bottoml bracket tool and installation

    the original bottom bracket was a shimano bb-un52 with a tapered square interface for the cranks. removal of the bottom bracket was an isis interface tool, like the jensonusa 26bb bottom bracket tool.

    installation of the shimano xt crankset required a tool designed for the shimano hollowtech II interface. i used the park bbt-9 tool. the black round knob at the end of the park tool is similar to the shimano tl-fc16 installation tool, which is required to preload the bearing tension on the hollowtech II crank. it is two separate tools in one handy wrench.

    park bbt-9

  16. #16
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    ... and if we just ... Chain arrived and wheelset rebuild

    yesterday the chain arrived. i'm using wippermann connex 10s1.

    the chain is being prepared to be soaked in chain lube. in the picture below it is being soaked in iIsopropyl alcohol to remove it any contaminates, and then it's going to sit in the lube until the bike is completed and ready to be installed. this allows lubricant time to soak in.


    the front and rear hubs were disassembled and cleaned.




    i used the grease shown below to pack the hub bearings.


    the drivetrain will be upgraded to a 2x10 versus the original 3x9 setup. the shimano xt M785 (26/38T) crankset will drive the M771 xt 10 speed cassette (11-36T). to get the granny-gearing ratio, i installed the oneup component sprocket extender. i used the 40 teeth sprocket instead of the 42T for two reasons. one is that the jump from 36 teeth to 42 teeth is a 4-teeth difference vs a 6 teeth difference of a 36 to 42. i am thinking the gearing would be smoother. also the second reason, probably more important is that the wippermann 10s1 chain is 114 links vs the shimano 116 links... just in case the 42t may interfere with the chain length... i do not know for certain, but just a precaution. also, the oneup component was more of a bling factor than function. the cassette installation required removal of the 17t, 15t and spacer to fit the 40t extender and a 16t (which came with oneup component) onto the cog.

    oneup component 40t installed.


    and so here is the finished/regreased wheelset. based on- xt rear/front hubs, xt 11-36T cog, 40t oneup sprocket extender, 16t gear replacement of 17t and 15t, mavic 221 rims and michelin tires. i also retape the rims with velox rim tape (16mm)

    finished wheelset.

  17. #17
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    I'm not going into the gory details of another thread, but it amazes me how lazy some mfg's are when it comes to that 15t/17t - 40t swap. I imagine it is because they can get a 16t and it is cheap. In reality you would want to swap the 19t/21t with a 20t for better teeth/cog transition.

    It is probably too tough to find a 20t and they don't want to get one made so they don't care about the gearing beyond selling their 40t.

    John

    EDIT: I actually contacted OneUP and they said that the XT 10 speed cassette has the 19-21-24 spidered together so that kinda ends the discussion. The 10 speed cassettes I have seen had the 19 and 21 spidered.
    Last edited by 70sSanO; 08-22-2014 at 08:48 AM.
    1995 Trek 970 - 80mm Atom Race
    1992 Serotta T-Max - 70mm Z3 Light
    1993 GT All Terra - 46mm Mag 21

  18. #18
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    i believe the swap of the 16T for the 17T and 15T is because of the cassette setup.

    the 11-36T (shimano) has the following gear groups [11] [13] [15] [17] [19, 21, 24] [28, 32, 26]. if the swap is made at the 19T and 21T, then the whole 19, 21, 24 group would need to be replaced and that would be expensive versus just taking out the 15T, 17T and spacer.

    and then i saw your edit.... lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
    I'm not going into the gory details of another thread, but it amazes me how lazy some mfg's are when it comes to that 15t/17t - 40t swap. I imagine it is because they can get a 16t and it is cheap. In reality you would want to swap the 19t/21t with a 20t for better teeth/cog transition.

    It is probably too tough to find a 20t and they don't want to get one made so they don't care about the gearing beyond selling their 40t.

    John

    EDIT: I actually contacted OneUP and they said that the XT 10 speed cassette has the 19-21-24 spidered together so that kinda ends the discussion. The 10 speed cassettes I have seen had the 19 and 21 spidered.

  19. #19
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    1999 Klein Attitude Build as of August 27, 2014

    hello everyone. several parts came this week. i missed a few days of posting because i was depressed with mucking up my cut on the stem. yeah, measured many times, cut once. i cut the stem on the fork a lot shorter than i wanted to. it's okay and clear the top tube, but i should had cut it so that it's a 40mm not a 10mm spacer setup. it works fine, but it was the principle that bothered me... i should have measured more times than once. however, i do like the kore handle bar stem.


    the seatpost clamp arrived. thompson does make beautiful clamps! it comes with a bag too! fancy, fancy!


    the clamp was installed with a crank brothers cobalt 3 zero offset seatpost. i like the seatpost design, it's very clean. however, it received mediocre to near-bad reviews. i think part of the bad review is because of the installation. maybe some installations forgot the use of the bridge support between the seat rails? anyway, the seatpost is solid and awesome! the seat is a selle seat from the donored bike.


    i am using the oem shimano xt rear derailleur. an aluminum tensioner pulley was installed for bling factor.


    brakes? i went with kool stop mountain compound with internal support. v-brakes are from paul components.


    and the fork? this component is most expensive of the bike so far. the oem fork was still in good condition, but i wanted a nice air ride. unfortunately, no medium or high-end forks support v-brake bosses. i did find that the 2014 rockshox silver tk has the lower leg that supports the v-brakes. but the silver tk is not as performance-enhanced as i would like it. in research, i found that the recon silver tk lower legs are compatible with the recon gold rl, which weigh less than the silver because of the 6061 aluminum stanchion (vs the steel stanchion on the silver), the air internals are more robust, and the dampening has better lockout and overrides. so i match the upper of the recon gold rl with the lower silver tk. and with a lighter wallet, i got the fork below.

  20. #20
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    95% build

    almost finished building. replaced odi flight control handlebar with easton monkey bar for a higher rise. installed nokon cable systems and temporary brake levers until paul love lever compact brake levers arrive in next week.


    framewrap on chainstay, the 2x shimano xt crankset, xtr front derailleur installed.


    going to install some temporary grips and other accessories to test out this weekend. happy labor day weekend!!!

  21. #21
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    bike testing

    so today, the brake levers came in. first class usps is quite quick... sent from new york on thursday and arrived today. i'm impressed

    here is the bike...


    tested on the local trails here in phoenix... quite warm today.. 107F ... downtown phoenix in the background...


    from the testing the oem derailler, which was meant for 9 speed and 3x front, was not shifting cleanly, especially to and from the 40t expanded gear.


    a new derailleur is on order... so we'll see. thank you for following

  22. #22
    I hate that name.
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    Looks like you discovered the hard way that Shimano's 10 speed shifters aren't compatible with their 9 speed derailleurs.
    Worked at Trek/Fisher dealer 2008-2013. Only a little biased.

  23. #23
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    1999 Klein Attitude Comp Modernization and Rebuild

    You'll be much happier with a new shadow+ trust me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  24. #24
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    yup, not compatible indeed. i did try to adjust the "B" screw and even installed a longer screw, but the adjustment didn't allow enough tension.

    i ordered the Shimano XT M786 Rear Derailleur long cage version. this derailleur does have the shadow clutch system, but i don't understand the "+". is the "+" for direct mounting? i though "sg" is legacy mount and "sgs" is direct mount ...hmmm

    the derailleur should be arriving today, so we see.

    Quote Originally Posted by blunderbuss View Post
    Looks like you discovered the hard way that Shimano's 10 speed shifters aren't compatible with their 9 speed derailleurs.
    Quote Originally Posted by rockhammer View Post
    You'll be much happier with a new shadow+ trust me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #25
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    ... and if we just ... completed build, better than 1999

    the derailleur came in yesterday.


    installed.


    i had a little trouble adjusting the rear derailleur. it was not shifting as smoothly as i expected and had a grinding sound. after a series of trouble-shooting routine, i discovered the chain was incorrectly routed through the derailleur. the chain is supposed to be behind the metal support shown below.



    and the chain should show up correctly as seen in the image below.


    it was getting too late to go to the local trail... so today after work, i'll go test it out and post final specs and build of the bike.

    i did weight the bike, it came out to be 25.8 lbs... with lights (front/rear), tube liners, and chainstay frame wrap. it's a medium size bike (17-inch) and the specs listed the bike at 24lbs. i don't think the lights, tube liners, and the framewrap are 1.8 lbs, but i did used a bathroom scale. i'll try to find a certified scale and see what it is actually.

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