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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    This thread has got me thinking about geometry and head tube angles . . .

    How is rear travel measured? I always assumed it was the vertical distance the wheel moves between full extension and full compression. If that's the case, it seems that if you want the front and rear travel to be "balanced" you would need the fork travel to be longer than the rear travel because the vertical travel of the fork will be less than the nominal travel. As the headtube angle slackens, this becomes more pronounced.

    My trig is a little rusty, but I think the vertical travel of the fork = sin(HTA) * fork travel. So for the sentinel, sin(64 degrees)*160mm = 143 mm vertical travel. Pretty closely matched to the rear.

    Seems like the math supports Whalenards observations.
    Yep. Considered this calculation before in the process of over forking many(most) previous bikes. The converse is having to explain why the 160/160 bike(built up from the 140/160 bike parts, including fork) seemed more balanced. Factors involved include design intent, rear suss kinematics, running more rear sag (30vs20%) and more rear weight bias(60-70%) depending on riding style.
    Certainly would expect the Sentinel, designed for that travel, to feel balanced and more dialed in than an aftermarket Frankenforker.
    Just excited so many great bikes being built with unique fit and feel, hope to ride them all!
    Big Wheels and Fat Skis keep me young.

  2. #102
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    Not to throw off the tech talk, but what are people's thoughts on going from carbon (SC "C") to an aluminum Sentinel? Will it be super noticeable, or is modern aluminum pretty solid?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    140 or 150, 10mm isn't going to change anyone's life. Only those people upset that someone put a pea under their mattress would really notice.
    Ha. I like that.

  4. #104
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    Hi all

    I assume that nobody has ridden the Sentinel but I have a question and I must set up my mind.

    I struggle to choose between the Sentinel and the new Kona Process 29".
    I am not talking about comparison between spec. only pure geometry

    The main point that I worry about is that the Sentinel feels too much a bike only because of the slack HA (64) compare to the 66 HA of the Kona.

    what do you think guys?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by alonmil View Post
    The main point that I worry about is that the Sentinel feels too much a bike only because of the slack HA (64) compare to the 66 HA of the Kona.

    what do you think guys?
    I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Go re-read the SBG info Transition has posted. Trying to parse it down to a HTA and draw conclusions from that is leading you in the wrong direction.
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  6. #106
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    I don't believe that the HA alone makes a bike too much or too less.

    Having said that a few friends have bought quite slack bikes (around 65) and at least at the beginning they have straggled with front tire traction because they required a different way of riding with more forward bias.

    I have also experienced the same when I placed an angleset to my current bike so I decided to remove it even though I use a 29 160 fork with 44 offset in a forward geometry bike.

    I understand that the whole geometry and fork offsets can influence the above but only to a certain degree so I would (and I will) wait to try one before deciding.

  7. #107
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    these bikes are a new paradigm and i agree, they need to be ridden before coming to any conclusions. i want to try each of them, i can't wait for them to be up and running.

  8. #108
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    This new Sentinel is really intriguing me. Would be really nice to read some more test reports. I'm planning on moving to a modern 29er from a first gen Kona 153 and the Sentinel is on top of the bunch for me.


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  9. #109
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    I would like to demo a Sentinel as well.

    And I am wondering how a Sentinel compares to a Whyte S150 given that they have the same wheelsize, travel range and a similar geometry concept (smaller fork offset, etc.). Can anyone offer insights on the ride difference between these two bikes?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-Bomb View Post
    Can anyone offer insights on the ride difference between these two bikes?
    Both bikes are not at dealers yet so unless you know a magazine tester that rode both (not sure if there is anyone that actually did it) it will take a bit of time to get a comparison between the two.
    Having said that,just by looking at the numbers ׁ(HA mostly) it seems the Sentinel will potentially be a bit more aggressive .You can also see that the s150 doesnt come with a piggyback shock or a Lyrik/36 which can also suggest that its not meant to be as aggressive.

  11. #111
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    Numbers on the Sentinel is kind of in line with Pole Evolinks 140 model. Know they´ve been testing forks with shorter offset too. The reviews on the Pole is that it really can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain as well as climb very well. Poles wheelbase is even longer though, would love to try both out..

  12. #112
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    Fabulous Bike!

    Just got back from Outerbike. This was by far my favorite bike I rode. The suspension has all the FSR/HOSRT/GIDDYUP supple love. It's sooo easy to ride. I don't think it gives up anything from turning perspective on slower techy stuff to XC type tights. It pops off little and big things so easily. I kept thinking --- 64 degree head angle! How is this possible. Climbing it's amazing - I think it's the best climbing bike I've ever ridden (the new Mach 6 maybe a close second).

    I also tested the new Rocky Mountain Instinct as it's more in line with what I currently ride, a Stumpjumper 29. It just felt like a lighter, and nicer version of my stumpy. Not as ground breaking as the Sentinel or as fun to ride – even thought it's lighter.

    I then rode the Kona Process 153 27.5. This felt too harsh/racy – the rear is so stiff under pedaling that small hits and bumps were jarring. Super stable – but harder to loft and play with than the Sentinel. Also felt beat up after a 20mi ride.

    Lastly I rode the new Mach 6 carbon. Whoa - close contender. I was tired – but that bike pedals, climbs, takes the small stuff well. However, for the money I'd go with the Sentinel – and I feel you don't give up anything with the 20 mm rear travel difference but gain the awesome roll over of the 29.

    Again – I know my review is choppy – but man. TR has really done something special with this bike. It was aluminum and I didn't care that it was heavy. It was soo much fun. Steep stuff - was stable, climbing - where do you want to go? - XC type stuff - playful and not a handful. If I had more time I'd like to have tried the new Smuggler.

    Cheers!

  13. #113
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    Nice review.

    Would you ride the Sentinel on a multi-day multi-thousands of feet of climbing ride? (I'm thinking San Juan Huts or Kokopelli Trail or BC Bike Race)?

  14. #114
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    How does the 140mm rear end handle sharp edges and chop compared to the 160mm front?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Nice review.

    Would you ride the Sentinel on a multi-day multi-thousands of feet of climbing ride? (I'm thinking San Juan Huts or Kokopelli Trail or BC Bike Race)?
    I've never done more than 2-3 days of 3K+ feet of climbing. But I'd take this bike – cause if I was tired it's still easy to maneuver. However, I don't think it's light by any stretch of the imagination.

    How does the 140mm rear end handle sharp edges and chop compared to the 160mm front?
    It's just fine. The front and rear balance really well.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Numbers on the Sentinel is kind of in line with Pole Evolinks 140 model. Know they´ve been testing forks with shorter offset too. The reviews on the Pole is that it really can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain as well as climb very well. Poles wheelbase is even longer though, would love to try both out..
    'can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain', now there's a unique selling feature. not a lot of mtn bikes can pull this off well.....

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    'can carry a lot of speed on flat terrain', now there's a unique selling feature. not a lot of mtn bikes can pull this off well.....
    Yeah was obviously talking about sections of trail thats flatish.. See a lot of guys out in the woods at home with those and they´re all really stoked on them.

  18. #118
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    for all the "between sizes" out there,
    I have pre-ordered the Sentinel in my local LBS but I'm still struggling what size to take, L or XL.

    My height is 187cm (6' 2"),

    currently I am riding a Kona Process 134 2014 size L.
    it has a reach of 460 and it's Top-Tube length is 631mm
    it feels bit short while I'm pedalling on the Saddle, out of the saddle, on descent it feels perfect

    The L sentinel has reach of 475mm and 611 mm Top-Tube length.
    it is shorter than than my Kona by 2 cm, so actually it will feel much more cramped when I'm on the saddle and maybe it will feel bit "small" for me.

    By looking on the Numbers of the XL Sentinel, it is much bigger and longer bike, and I afraid that it will be too big for me to maneuver and "play" with it.

    what do you recommend to do?,
    what size to take?

  19. #119
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    I'd go large, focusing on the reach more than the top tube. If you're worried about being cramped in the saddle, you can move the seat back on the rails a bit or go with a wider bar to spread yourself out a bit more. To me, the wheelbase on these bikes is getting to the point where they can be hard to handle on tighter terrain. I'm 6' 3" but it's mostly in my legs, I'm going from an XL Patrol back to a Large.
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  20. #120
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    I would most probably choose the XL based on my Mondraker experience. I am 1.83 and ride a L Crafty that has similar reach numbers to the XL Sentinel and I wouldn't want anything less than that and the same applies to the effective top tube numbers that are affected by the seat angle.

    I understand the benefits of the steeper seat angle but it affects the effective top tube and definitely feel much more comfortable on a longer bike overall (reach, effective top tube, wheelbase etc).

    But at the end of the day it's all about personal preferences.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by alonmil View Post
    for all the "between sizes" out there,...
    I'm 6'1 and riding a Patrol in L, but I wanna size up because the L feels a bit cramped to me. I wrote TR for an advice and if the new SBG bikes (in same size) with longer reach would help here:

    "If the LG felt short for you, the new one will still feel short. The longer reach is part of the SBG setup and sizing. If you use a shorter offset SBG fork on a "regular" bike it makes it feel quite a bit smaller and out of balance. We know that the longer reach longer wheelbase can be intimidating, but it's part of the whole package. You may find that a 35mm stem in place of the 40mm stem makes sense, but I am confident that the XL won't be too big for you. On the other hand, the LG could still work, but I would be worried you will find it too small. Most people get on a new SBG Patrol and their first comment is something along the lines of "That doesn't actually feel that big" so don't be scared... "

    Don't get fooled by numbers - they are an approach, not more. When in doubt I would size up & use short stem. I'm pretty sure most will get used to a bigger frame when they are stuck between two sizes.

  22. #122
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    Interesting regarding sizing. I'm pretty proportional at 6', but also found the Large patrol too small. Given that I am serious about getting this bike, i guess I ought to find a demo. Poo

  23. #123
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    No demos around here, but pulled the trigger on a XL frame yesterday. I’m 194cm 6’5”, hope it will be good!

  24. #124
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    I'm just throwing this out there too. I started on a medium patrol last year and ended up on a large by the end of the season. I'm only 5'8". I agree with sizing up. I think even with these new bikes I'd still ride a large. At least with the patrol.

  25. #125
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    I got my hand at riding the Sentinel last night. I went out for a quick evening ride at my local spot and saw the Transition guys set up for a last minute demo on their way back from Pisgah. I wish I would have had time to ride all the SBG bikes, but I ended up spending my time on the Sentinel. I did a few laps on green flow trails, blue jump lines (some 20'+ tables and step ups), some twisty tech forest riding, and finished it off with the area's only double black run.

    My first thought was how well mannered it was when pedaling around. The climb up to most of the DH trails in the area is a bit of up and down, well packed and smooth. I was expecting it to feel more like a wet dog, but I was presently surprised how little wallow there was. Traction was great, and it didn't feel like I was towing an anchor. It took a little more body english than I was used to to make it around some of the uphill switchbacks, but nothing that was overly difficult. Overall much better than I had expected.

    Once I got to the downhill I could echo some of Mike's review points on pinkbike. The Sentinel is definitely more down than up on the spectrum, and it's length really lended itself to speed, if you have the room to really let it stretch its legs the bike really comes alive. I got this in bits and spurts, as the trails here aren't west coast loooooong descents.

    However it jumped remarkably well, very balanced in the air and solid. Even a few sloppy landings which would have jostled me up more felt smooth, the suspension was remarkably potent even for "only" having 140mm of travel.

    The few rock sections were absolutely gobbled up, and it had that distinct floating carpet feel over the boulders. Suspension setup obviously comes into play here, but if you prefer a more direct to the ground feel, I wasn't finding it.

    It definitely lagged for me in the tight forest. SBG trickery aside, there's no getting around the fact this is a looooooooooong bike. And I had to wrestle a few spots to get it around a tree or power through off camber stuff. Again, there's nothing keeping you from riding this as a trail bike, you're just going to have to work a little harder than you would on other options.

    Overall, I had a blast on the bike, and would highly recommend it for someone who gets enough time on the DH to appreciate it. For my active style riding and up/down/up/down area, I would prefer the Scout or smuggler.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    I got my hand at riding the Sentinel last night.....
    eccellente! thanks for that review!
    I would also be really interested in a comparison Sentinel vs (new) Patrol.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    I got my hand at riding the Sentinel last night.
    Hey thanks for the review! Wish I could demo some new TR bikes! Did you ride the Sentinel in Pisgah? What trails?

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