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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Shorter WB, but not less travel.
    I've been thinking about sizing down from XL to L (I'm 6' 2") for that reason, but the guys at Transition say don't do that.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonlespaulspecial View Post
    I've been thinking about sizing down from XL to L (I'm 6' 2") for that reason, but the guys at Transition say don't do that.
    With the steep STA if you size down you may not have enough room from saddle to bar for comfy seated pedalling.
    Safe riding,

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    With the steep STA if you size down you may not have enough room from saddle to bar for comfy seated pedalling.
    Bingo
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Same. I suspected as much, and that sealed it. Sounds like a great bike, but it seems like the vast majority of reviews I read on PB are judged largely on riding in a bike park. For the rest of us, a shorter bike is more ideal.
    The PB review was certainly focused on pushing the bike at the limits of its capability by riding in the bikepark , but they did also briefly mention that it climbs techy stuff reasonably well [considering the weight]. I'd definitely wait to see a review more focused on how the bike performs as an all-rounder before passing judgement (or even better, actually try riding it), obviously it's not going to be as lively as a shorter travel bike but I don't think its capability on the rowdy stuff automatically means it's going to be a pig everywhere else.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by payze View Post
    Anyone has been thinking of converting their old scout/smug/patrol with sbg-like technology?

    Since lars was running the a smuggler test mule with -2° angle set and a fox 36 with 26" csu, the feeling shouldn't be far from what they've done with the new bikes.
    The hard part would be the seat angle. If you sized up to get the longer reach but didn't change the SA your seated position would be stretched and pretty horrible for seated feel.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Bingo
    Yep, you're right. My XL Canyon Spectral has the same top tube length as the XL Scout. But, my saddle is forward, if I ride the SBG scout with the saddle back, it would probably be a wash. Must locate a demo day and actually ride these things.

  7. #107
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    OK, the 29er offset is 43 and 27.5 is 37. What happens if you run 29" wheels on the Scout or 27.5+ on the Smuggler (or Sentinel)? How does the different tire size impact the handling, given the various offsets?

    Presumably putting a 27.5+ on the 29er bikes won't be that big a deal, since the standard 27.5 offset is 44mm. I'm guessing you'd just have a slack HA bike that negates the SBG and rides more or less like any other long, slack 27.5 bike?

    For the others, though, putting a 29er on a 37mm offset fork seems like it'd have all kinds of impact. Much more Trail, so stable like a tank headed downhill at high speeds, but lots of flop going up slow twisty trails making it un-fun to climb on?

    If that's correct, it seems like the only option for running both tire sizes is the Smuggler or Sentinel and really, not the Scout?

    For other "switch" bikes out there, they have something to counter this. The Switchblade/429 Trail use the 17mm cup to slacken the HTA, presumably keeping the trail about the same. And the Hightower uses a longer fork, though with the same offset, for the 27.5 configuration again, presumably keeping trail about the same?

  8. #108
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    Transition 2018 SBG Bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    OK, the 29er offset is 43 and 27.5 is 37. What happens if you run 29" wheels on the Scout or 27.5+ on the Smuggler (or Sentinel)? How does the different tire size impact the handling, given the various offsets?

    Presumably putting a 27.5+ on the 29er bikes won't be that big a deal, since the standard 27.5 offset is 44mm. I'm guessing you'd just have a slack HA bike that negates the SBG and rides more or less like any other long, slack 27.5 bike?

    For the others, though, putting a 29er on a 37mm offset fork seems like it'd have all kinds of impact. Much more Trail, so stable like a tank headed downhill at high speeds, but lots of flop going up slow twisty trails making it un-fun to climb on?

    If that's correct, it seems like the only option for running both tire sizes is the Smuggler or Sentinel and really, not the Scout?

    For other "switch" bikes out there, they have something to counter this. The Switchblade/429 Trail use the 17mm cup to slacken the HTA, presumably keeping the trail about the same. And the Hightower uses a longer fork, though with the same offset, for the 27.5 configuration again, presumably keeping trail about the same?
    I seriously doubt you can run 29" wheels on the Scout as it's a dedicated 27.5 bike, and if someone manages to hack wagon wheels onto one I'd think the handling is their problem as it's not what the bike was designed to do. 27.5+ tires on a Smuggler is more possible, but even that is something they don't explicitly advertise. To my knowledge none of the bikes are multi tire size bikes.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    The PB review was certainly focused on pushing the bike at the limits of its capability by riding in the bikepark , but they did also briefly mention that it climbs techy stuff reasonably well [considering the weight]. I'd definitely wait to see a review more focused on how the bike performs as an all-rounder before passing judgement (or even better, actually try riding it), obviously it's not going to be as lively as a shorter travel bike but I don't think its capability on the rowdy stuff automatically means it's going to be a pig everywhere else.

    Great points.


    For a good all-rounder, travel and geo-wise, on paper, the Sentinel looks like too much bike, the Smuggler not enough. But a different type of review is needed to give us a better idea.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by toodles View Post
    The hard part would be the seat angle. If you sized up to get the longer reach but didn't change the SA your seated position would be stretched and pretty horrible for seated feel.
    With a -2° headset the front end gets lower and the STA gets steeper.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    With a -2° headset the front end gets lower and the STA gets steeper.
    True. I'd hate to think how low the BB would end up for any decent change in SA though. I'm one of those poor hobbit-legged, long torso combinations that needs a really good steep seat angle so I'm always pretty picky about it. Loving the trend for new bikes to go steeper SA (except the new Reign - wtf?)

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    For a good all-rounder, travel and geo-wise, on paper, the Sentinel looks like too much bike, the Smuggler not enough. But a different type of review is needed to give us a better idea.
    From the PB review;

    "The way the Sentinel managed to find traction and remain calm even on the chunkiest trails was impressive, and while its handling feels quite different compared to a steeper angled, less sprawling bike, the Sentinel's geometry, including the reduced offset fork, makes it much more manageable than a cursory glance at its numbers would suggest."

    It will certainly be interesting to see further reviews, but if I were in the market I'd definitely want to ride one before writing it off. I think if the Sentinel is too much bike (and you're dead set on the wagon wheels) the Smuggler would probably be a good choice. Purely speculating, but I reckon the geometry of it will make it a much more capable bike than the 120mm rear travel may initially suggest.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Purely speculating, but I reckon the geometry of it will make it a much more capable bike than the 120mm rear travel may initially suggest.
    That was exactly the case with the OG Smuggler, no? Lots of people raising eyebrows at 115mm but then you started to see a 150 fork bolted on and Smugglers in Enduro races. Can't wait to see more reviews on these two bikes.

  14. #114
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    Hey Giddy Up fans. Loving all the discussion here, good stuff.

    Here's another perspective on the Sentinel's handling - First Ride: Transition Sentinel | BIKE Magazine

    A quick general note on our SBG system.

    Wheel flop - When you deviate to a certain point in the steering axis from center (straight ahead) and the axle actually begins to fall lowering the front axle. At this point the handlebars want to continue turning. As we've made the headtube angles slacker, and reduced the fork offset, we're intentionally using an earlier wheel flop point to our advantage- Will come back to this later.

    Wheel flop is counteracted by wheel velocity. At slow wheel rotational speeds, the bike want's to help you turn around sharp corners. Think slow speed uphill and downhill switchbacks, and other slow speed scenarios where you need to turn the handlebars more. Here's the neat part, as wheel speed increases the velocity overcomes the flop and makes the handlebars want to stay straight. It also changes the directional changing mechanism by leaning opposed to steering.

    When you go slow (like when climbing) the bike is easier to navigate tighter turns, and as you go faster it becomes more stable.

    There's a lot more physics at play than to simply look at the headtube angle and say it will handle like this, or to read that the steering trail figures are longer and say it will handle like that.

    It really is an intuitive system, and the feel changes based on the speed your riding.

    We will be building a demo fleet as soon as possible, as to ride them is really the only way to understand how they do what they do.

    We can say, we have watched a number of very adept journalists ride them and say some pretty amazing things afterwards.

    Party on!

  15. #115
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    Hey folks,
    I am a happy owner of an Smuggler and do like the bike - good job Transition. As I am here in Germany, this frame was 1599 Euro. If I would try to upgrade to an Smuggler 2.0 the frame is 2.099 Euro ....????
    Crazy pricing, over and out!!

  16. #116
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    I'm pretty excited to try out the SBG Smuggler. Would it be possible to just swap the uppers on a Pike to get a 44mm offset (rather than 51mm)? I have a fairly new Avy cartridge on my Pike so I'd like to avoid getting a whole new fork if possible.

  17. #117
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    Sure sourcing the part may be a challenge but no reason why that wouldn't work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Michael

    Ride on!

  18. #118
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    Has anyone out there tried the new Scout yet? Preferably someone with time on the old Scout. Really curious to hear how it compares. I absolutely love my Scout and I'm super curious to know how much the longer wheelbase effects the bike. Adding 42mm of wheelbase to a bike must make the ride feel a lot different.

    Lots of stuff out there on the new Sentinal and Patrol but all is quiet on the Scout front.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik_Yerbouti View Post
    Has anyone out there tried the new Scout yet? Preferably someone with time on the old Scout. Really curious to hear how it compares. I absolutely love my Scout and I'm super curious to know how much the longer wheelbase effects the bike. Adding 42mm of wheelbase to a bike must make the ride feel a lot different.

    Lots of stuff out there on the new Sentinal and Patrol but all is quiet on the Scout front.
    Haven't seen anything yet. Not sure when the bikes will be actually hitting regular consumers? October I heard?

    I had a Scout, and want another one! This SBG sounds intersting.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    Haven't seen anything yet. Not sure when the bikes will be actually hitting regular consumers? October I heard?.
    Mid to late October is when the bikes should be arriving at Transtion HQ
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  21. #121
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    I was waiting for a company to go the short offset route after reading an article about a guy doing custom short offset fork mods with great results. I noticed floppier climbing and skittish slow speed steering on my Trance when installing a bigger offset fork and compensated this somewhat by putting on a longer stem. Longer trail is much needed for stability on today's long and slack bikes. I am going to predict this will be the biggest new geometry trend going forward and heavily adopted by other brands. The only decision I have left is to get a 2018 Scout GX build or a frame and fork build? I don't even need to ride one first to know these SBG bikes are going to rip!
    2015 Giant Trance 3
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by noose View Post
    I was waiting for a company to go the short offset route after reading an article about a guy doing custom short offset fork mods with great results. I noticed floppier climbing and skittish slow speed steering on my Trance when installing a bigger offset fork and compensated this somewhat by putting on a longer stem. Longer trail is much needed for stability on today's long and slack bikes. I am going to predict this will be the biggest new geometry trend going forward and heavily adopted by other brands. The only decision I have left is to get a 2018 Scout GX build or a frame and fork build? I don't even need to ride one first to know these SBG bikes are going to rip!
    The builds Transition offers seem to have good value. I'm going for the fork and frame option on a Patrol. It's gonna be around 33 lbs. or slightly more when done, and I'm good with that. Not taking a demo ride either. Any bikes geo that puts you in the middle is going to be a blast to ride.

  23. #123
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    Coming off an older Patrol makes it interesting. To get the new one, I need a frame, fork and wheelset. I assume everything else should swap across. But by the time I buy those parts, it's pretty much cheaper to just sell complete and buy complete.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by toodles View Post
    Coming off an older Patrol makes it interesting. To get the new one, I need a frame, fork and wheelset. I assume everything else should swap across. But by the time I buy those parts, it's pretty much cheaper to just sell complete and buy complete.
    Your current bike is worthless.

    Welcome to mountainbiking.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Your current bike is worthless.

    Welcome to mountainbiking.
    But... but.... the salesman told me it was future-proof!!! Noooooo

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by toodles View Post
    But... but.... the salesman told me it was future-proof!!! Noooooo
    So lets's talk about lease options....
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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by noose View Post
    So lets's talk about lease options....
    “We also offer competitive financing rates”

    But let’s not hear more about these reduced offset FOX 29er forks. Is this something that I’m going to be able to order from the usual channels (OGC) up here in Canada?

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    “We also offer competitive financing rates”

    But let’s not hear more about these reduced offset FOX 29er forks. Is this something that I’m going to be able to order from the usual channels (OGC) up here in Canada?
    You order it with the frame. They have several choices.

  29. #129
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    My LBS just called and I should see my 2018 Patrol next week!!!
    2018 Transition Patrol

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996cc View Post
    My LBS just called and I should see my 2018 Patrol next week!!!
    Dang I better get back to my LBS and finalize the parts list for my pre ordered Sentinel then. Thanks for the heads up!

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996cc View Post
    My LBS just called and I should see my 2018 Patrol next week!!!
    That's sweet! Sweet anticipation. What part of the world do you live in? I'm in Oregon and have one ordered as well.

  32. #132
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    Hmm wondering if I should order a Scout or try to ride one first. I'm worried they will sell out quick so probably the former.
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  33. #133
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    I wonder why they didn't steepen the seat angle on the new Scouts like they did on the Patrols? I love my Scout - would be all over the new one if they'd sharpened the SA a teeny bit but otherwise the old one with a 150 fork is still capable as.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBY View Post
    What part of the world do you live in? I'm in Oregon and have one ordered as well.
    Ewe-gene, OR.
    2018 Transition Patrol

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1996cc View Post
    Ewe-gene, OR.
    Thanks. We're using the same LBS then. Talked to him today and he said the large frame/fork isn't shipping till Nov. 1 or around there.

    Enjoy that new bike!

  36. #136
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    Yeah, Justin said that someone that ordered in front of me wouldn’t see theirs until later. Random success I guess, or I’m getting paid back from almost 10 years ago when I waited for what seemed like forever for my Santa Cruz...
    2018 Transition Patrol

  37. #137
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    They have by 0.1 degree but that's with a stock 150mm... so if you're running a 150 now, you'd have somewhere around 0.5-0.6 degree steeper STA with the new SBG Scout.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBY View Post
    Thanks. We're using the same LBS then. Talked to him today and he said the large frame/fork isn't shipping till Nov. 1 or around there.

    Enjoy that new bike!
    My shop was told the same date for my L Sentinel.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyOrange View Post
    They have by 0.1 degree but that's with a stock 150mm... so if you're running a 150 now, you'd have somewhere around 0.5-0.6 degree steeper STA with the new SBG Scout.
    Yep sweet. Sam from Transition replied to my email with the same thing. I've got my Scout rocking a 150mm now (as does pretty much every Scout owner I know of haha). That sneaky half a degree will make them such a more pleasant climbing machine. I don't know why more manufacturers don't run steeper seat angles. Its a lot easier to add lay-back to a seat post to suit than to move it forward.

    5mm extra travel is a nice touch too. Heck if they'd made it 140mm, I'd probably just use one for enduro - they're incredibly competent as they stand now.

  40. #140
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    Looks like I need to sell my 3 week old 5010 and order up a Scout. I really like the Geo trend that Transition is going with.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djg24 View Post
    Looks like I need to sell my 3 week old 5010 and order up a Scout. I really like the Geo trend that Transition is going with.
    It's worth it just for the change in names frankly.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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