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Thread: Smuggler

  1. #701
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    Since I'm waiting on my frame, here's my parts list:

    2018 pike rct3. I have a luftkappe that I might swap over.

    Stans Arch S1 wheelset
    DHF and a minion SS for tires
    X01 11spd drive train for now
    Guide RS brakes with 180mm rotors
    Bike yoke dropper 160mm
    Anvl saddle
    40mm raceface turbine R stem and Next R bar 800mm.

    Not too different from my current smuggler. (Large 2016 frame/fork/reverb for sale if anyone is looking)

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by holiday View Post
    Attachment 1164574


    so, with 3 hours of riding, once again, I love the quiet feel of steering, the super solid feel of the bike, the climbing position (both seated and standing)...

    W
    Hey Holiday,

    Respect for podiums at Dville DH (10 years apart!), and sorry to hear that your 18 Smug was too big.

    Since you prefer a bike < 28 lbs, I'm wondering if you can comment on whether the SBG Smuggler's steep seat angle helps compensate for the extra frame weight?

    I always end up sliding my hips forward so they're over the cranks more when seated and grinding up anything steep--it feels like I can deliver more power in that position, rather than sliding rearwards onto the saddle.

    But, riding on the nose of the saddle doesn't really cut it on long steep climbs, so traditional/slack seat angles are sort of a deal breaker for me now (and if Evil's latest Following MB had a steeper seat angle, then I would have already replaced my first gen Following w/ the new version).

    I don't wanna open a can of worms about pedaling biomechanics and power delivery, I'm just hoping that if the steep seat angle helps one deliver more power, then maybe the '18 Smug may not feel so heavy compared to a slightly lighter bike w a slacker seat angle (looking at you, Evil Following).


    p.s. Also wondering if you sold a pair of 183cm Elan 1010's a few years ago--If so, then I bought them from you. Just wanted to say Thanks!!! They became my daily drivers until the topsheet delaminated on one last season. They handled everything great, except chunky refrozen Sierra crud.

  3. #703
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    I rode a demo large Smuggler today--I am 6 foot with a 34.4 inseam and I found it a bit short---the reach is long but the top tube is short--no longer than my 429T Pivot---which is known for being short. I honestly was a bit discouraged by this as I was oriented to loving the Smuggler but alas.......

    So far I have found no one with an XL demo and Transition says that bike would be too large.

    Frustrating a bit but no real surprise but I am not all that long legged to make fit an issue time and time again.

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I rode a demo large Smuggler today--I am 6 foot with a 34.4 inseam and I found it a bit short---the reach is long but the top tube is short--no longer than my 429T Pivot---which is known for being short. I honestly was a bit discouraged by this as I was oriented to loving the Smuggler but alas.......

    So far I have found no one with an XL demo and Transition says that bike would be too large.

    Frustrating a bit but no real surprise but I am not all that long legged to make fit an issue time and time again.
    I also demo'd a large today.

    I am 6-0 but a 33ish inseam. Definitely a lot of seat post. Felt short initially but absolutely loved it on the trail. What a fun bike.


    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  5. #705
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    I don't know what that is a problem. If the tt on the 429 fits, then it should set you up good for the smuggler.
    I just went to the new Jekyll (since the sentinel was taking too long for my impatient self), and the reach is way longer than my previous bikes (xl camber), but the tt is the same as the camber. So climbing feels good and similar, even with steeper STA. I do need to get a deeper hinge to keep the front wheel weighted.

  6. #706
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    It is interesting but I am finding--and many have previously stated in these forums---that one needs to ride the bikes to know what feels right. Even two bikes with very similar numbers can feel very different on fit------odd but true.

    With my 429 I have the seat way back thus indicating the bike is too short and the Smuggler seat was centered-----but I do not want to buy a bike and push the seat back again as it puts me too far over the cluster.

  7. #707
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    I assume you're saying it feels too short while seated? This is because of steeper seattube angle, and it's an important part of the whole SBG concept. You might consider that what you're feeling is different, but not necessarily "wrong." Going from the 17 to 18 patrol, I felt the same way, but found that my climbing performance improved on the 18 and even though it feels "different" it has no negative effect. Obviously only you can know, but just something to consider.
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  8. #708
    sbd
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    It is interesting but I am finding--and many have previously stated in these forums---that one needs to ride the bikes to know what feels right. Even two bikes with very similar numbers can feel very different on fit------odd but true.

    With my 429 I have the seat way back thus indicating the bike is too short and the Smuggler seat was centered-----but I do not want to buy a bike and push the seat back again as it puts me too far over the cluster.
    I understand what you are saying. The SBG layout feels different. It weights the front by shoving everything way forward.

    In the basic parking lot "fit test" it felt a bit crowded and kinda old school. With this kind of HTA you expect the the front tire to be more in front of you.

    On the trail I did a number of tight up hill switch backs and the front stayed planted with zero body english and no weird floppy steering.

    Also felt the position made for really nice climbing. On rolling climbs I was doing better than my normal pace.

    Once I pointed it downhill I could stay forward for insane traction on the front tire or shift back for drops. It was wet and slippery on my ride and traction was very impressive.

    I've been waiting for a new steed for too long and have demod a number of bikes in this category and this is my favorite by a lot. Basically felt like a Ripley that knows how to party.

    For an ancient retired BMX er that started riding MTBs in 1990 it was the ideal blend of precice steering (like the old days) coupled with modern efficiency and geometry. Loved it.





    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  9. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbd View Post
    On the trail I did a number of tight up hill switch backs and the front stayed planted with zero body english and no weird floppy steering.

    Also felt the position made for really nice climbing. On rolling climbs I was doing better than my normal pace.

    Once I pointed it downhill I could stay forward for insane traction on the front tire or shift back for drops. It was wet and slippery on my ride and traction was very impressive.
    I've had the same results for all of the above.

  10. #710
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    While im waiting for my medium 2017 Smuggler (ordered it because of color, and being non boost, to utilize my current mavic wheelset, which i have now broken..) i'll put up my spec list

    Hope Pro 4 Enduro wheel set with orange hubs
    WTB Vigilante 2.3" Light Fast rolling
    WTB Trail Boss 2.25" Light Fast rolling
    Both running Tubeless of course
    RS Yari Debon air 140 mm
    Shimano XT M8000 brakes
    180 mm discs
    GX 11 Speed shifter and derailur
    Shimano 11-46 SLX cassette
    Bike Yoke Revive 125 mm Dropper post
    Orange Hope Seat Clamp
    Orange Hope Steering fittings
    Orange Jagwire brakelines and gear cables
    Bikeyoke I-Spec II adapter for dropper trigger
    MisMatch 1.2 I-Spec II adapter for GX shifter
    Raceface Atlas Raw 35 800 mm bars
    Funn FunnDuro Stem 35 mm orange
    CrankBrothers Stamp 3 Macaskill small
    older FSA carbon cranks

    Looking forward to getting some pics up!

  11. #711
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    Smuggler-resized_20171113_140950_2612.jpg

    It's here! I have about 10 trail miles in the books with. Everything claimed about SBG is true. It really is worth the upgrade.

  12. #712
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    I'm curious what you all find in regards to this bikes "capability". How much better does it climb than the Sentinel and when would you choose to up to the Sentinel?

    I am 5'10 and sat on a Large at my LBS this weekend. Much want. The bone color? So rad.

    I think it'd be perfect for ~80% of my rides but we have a fair amount of gnar that I may be underbiked in....home turf is Pisgah Natl Forest in NC. Currently on a 140/160 Spitfire (27.5), which is underbiked just a bit here in Pisgah.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  13. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    I'm curious what you all find in regards to this bikes "capability". How much better does it climb than the Sentinel and when would you choose to up to the Sentinel?

    I am 5'10 and sat on a Large at my LBS this weekend. Much want. The bone color? So rad.

    I think it'd be perfect for ~80% of my rides but we have a fair amount of gnar that I may be underbiked in....home turf is Pisgah Natl Forest in NC. Currently on a 140/160 Spitfire (27.5), which is underbiked just a bit here in Pisgah.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    Maybe the smuggler with fork travel at 150 might be the best of both worlds for you? Or even swapping the 34 for a 36@150, and replacing the headset with a -1* angle set...

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    I think it'd be perfect for ~80% of my rides but we have a fair amount of gnar that I may be underbiked in....home turf is Pisgah Natl Forest in NC. Currently on a 140/160 Spitfire (27.5), which is underbiked just a bit here in Pisgah.
    I can't answer your question on the Sentinel, but I've found running a coil in the rear of the short travel bikes seems to help a lot with riding in Pisgah. I used to ride a 130mm 27.5 with a coil and the coil in the rear seemed to help a lot vs running air.

    The DBCoil IL is a minimal weight increase (1/2lb) and I expect it'd help a Smuggler be more feasible down some of the gnarlier stuff in Pisgah. All that said, my riding rarely puts me into bottom out territory and the value I saw out of the coil rear or longer travel is the ability for the bike to soak up the loose rocks, small bumps, and stay planted. If you are bottoming out on drops and such, it may not be the best option, especially for a linear linkage like on Transition bikes, but if you feel the bike is getting overwhelmed with small, fast, chunky stuff, it would definitely help.

    I have a non-SBG Smuggler and will probably be putting one on soon, I'll let you know how it pans out.

  15. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    I have a non-SBG Smuggler and will probably be putting one on soon, I'll let you know how it pans out.
    Please do as I am interested in your thoughts as well.

    On a semi-related note, has anyone installed the RWC needle bearing kit on the top eyelet of their smuggler?
    2017 Transmission Smuggler
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  16. #716
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    The RWC works great on the smuggler. Mine lasted two seasons.

  17. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    ...If you are bottoming out on drops and such, it may not be the best option, especially for a linear linkage like on Transition bikes, but if you feel the bike is getting overwhelmed with small, fast, chunky stuff, it would definitely help.

    I have a non-SBG Smuggler and will probably be putting one on soon, I'll let you know how it pans out.
    I've done the coil on a linear bike before and it def doesn't work for me. I bottom out on every ride and like you said, the coil (on my Spitfire) was RAD in the soft chatter and climbing, but it lost composure at mach stupid in chunder. No support deep in the stroke.

    I haven't seen the charts for new Smuggler though.....but maybe a DPX2 would be more apt for the more aggro Smuggler build. I'm surprised they're not offering something beefier on these (as frame only or completes).

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

  18. #718
    sbd
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    I saw somewhere that Transition does not recommend a coil.

  19. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhbrooks View Post
    The RWC works great on the smuggler. Mine lasted two seasons.
    i've wondered about this as well. how does it feel different from the stock set up?

  20. #720
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    not criticizing anyone's desire to modify or improve their Smugglers (i've played around with HA) but just saying, i find the Monarch Deb. a great shock. i find it performs well, the bike tracks great and is supple. of course i bottom it fairly regularly (but i bottom my Patrol on a hard ride as well) but rarely does it feel harsh. i have 2 bands in the shock which increases some progressivity and love it. it can be easy to lose sight on a bike this confidence inspiring that it is still a trail bike and part of the appeal is a taught back end compared to 140+ bikes. my 2 cents.

  21. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    i've wondered about this as well. how does it feel different from the stock set up?
    It gets things moving in the beginning of the stroke with way less effort. It felt like it hung up less on square edges. The other big benefit is that the needle bearing out lasted the normal bushing..of which I was burning through.

  22. #722
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    Of somewhat related interest:

    Instagram.com/p/Bbh-JmIFfHp/

    Last edited by Lithified; 11-16-2017 at 04:40 AM.

  23. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhbrooks View Post
    It gets things moving in the beginning of the stroke with way less effort. It felt like it hung up less on square edges. The other big benefit is that the needle bearing out lasted the normal bushing..of which I was burning through.
    thanks mate, makes sense. what size is needed for the Smuggler?

  24. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    thanks mate, makes sense. what size is needed for the Smuggler?
    The Fox Polymer tophat bushings and hardware have been great in both my Scout and Patrol for the top shock mount. Thats if you want a different option. The needle bearings would be awesome though.

  25. #725
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    Built my 2018 Smuggler frame on Friday. Mix of parts from my old bike and some new stuff. Standard offset fork rides great. Stock Fox DPS is garbage and will be replaced as soon as I have the cash.

    Smuggler-img_2661.jpg

  26. #726
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    nice photo, beauty bike. interesting observations. are you sure that the shock is junk already? how many miles do you have on it? i can't imagine tranny would stock a crap shock on a new bike.

  27. #727
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    I don't mean junk as in broken, just as compared to what I'm used to riding.

    My prior bikes had custom tuned shocks and a DVO Topaz that all make this low end shock feel like junk by comparison.

  28. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    I'm curious what you all find in regards to this bikes "capability". How much better does it climb than the Sentinel and when would you choose to up to the Sentinel?

    I am 5'10 and sat on a Large at my LBS this weekend. Much want. The bone color? So rad.

    I think it'd be perfect for ~80% of my rides but we have a fair amount of gnar that I may be underbiked in....home turf is Pisgah Natl Forest in NC. Currently on a 140/160 Spitfire (27.5), which is underbiked just a bit here in Pisgah.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    If it helps at all, many of the Transition staff have bought the new Smuggler as their personal rides. I've been told at least 4 of them. I don't know how our local area (Galbraith) compares with Pisgah, but it's no slouch and has a great mix of trails, including flow and plenty of things to jump off or over. If you have to get just one bike, get the one that'll be great for 80-90% of your riding, not the one that sacrifices capability for the 80-90% to use for the far fewer times you hit the other 10-20%.

  29. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoooL View Post
    While im waiting for my medium 2017 Smuggler (ordered it because of color, and being non boost, to utilize my current mavic wheelset, which i have now broken..) i'll put up my spec list

    Hope Pro 4 Enduro wheel set with orange hubs
    WTB Vigilante 2.3" Light Fast rolling
    WTB Trail Boss 2.25" Light Fast rolling
    Both running Tubeless of course
    RS Yari Debon air 140 mm
    Shimano XT M8000 brakes
    180 mm discs
    GX 11 Speed shifter and derailur
    Shimano 11-46 SLX cassette
    Bike Yoke Revive 125 mm Dropper post
    Orange Hope Seat Clamp
    Orange Hope Steering fittings
    Orange Jagwire brakelines and gear cables
    Bikeyoke I-Spec II adapter for dropper trigger
    MisMatch 1.2 I-Spec II adapter for GX shifter
    Raceface Atlas Raw 35 800 mm bars
    Funn FunnDuro Stem 35 mm orange
    CrankBrothers Stamp 3 Macaskill small
    older FSA carbon cranks

    Looking forward to getting some pics up!

    Aaaaand some pics:

    Late night build finished:
    Smuggler-23825822_10215270638826433_1466820746_o.jpg

    Ready for some fun!
    Smuggler-23825590_10215270592385272_775220521_o.jpg

    Met a fellow Tranny owner..
    Smuggler-23770392_10215270591825258_667106124_o.jpg

    Hot brakes, whooops
    Smuggler-23770410_10215270592145266_860781290_o.jpg


    Got her good and dirty! So stoked how she rides!!
    Smuggler-23825625_10215270590425223_90067033_o.jpg

    Smuggler-23770332_10215270590065214_1995338386_o.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Smuggler-23828641_10215270590625228_805796489_o.jpg  


  30. #730
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    So here is a question. I was all set to upgrade to the new SBG Smuggler but then the wonders of 2 crashes in 2 weeks and a private healthcare system means I've just blown exactly half that budget on ER rooms, specialists and have 4 cracked ribs, dislocated / fractured shoulder, broken lil' finger and roasties from shoulder to butt. Got to love Hospital Plans that don't actually cover the ER room of a hospital.

    So looks like I'm sticking with my Mk1 Smuggler. Not that much of a bad thing but I am interested in trying a new shock and have these 2 in my sights:

    1 - Cane Creek DB IL Coil
    2 - Ohlins Stx22 air

    Not that I have anything against the Monarch that is on there and I get the bike was designed around it pretty much but I just wonder what either of the others would be like.

    Thoughts?

    Actually I had a revelation the other day about the Smuggler that stopped me buying other bikes and being disappointed in them after recently getting a Commencal Meta 4.2 and a YT Capra carbon. The Smuggler is so capable on tiny travel that you end up thinking these 160mm enduro sleds must be so much better... then realising that they aren't when you're on them and wondering why you're getting hung up so much on spicy tracks and wondering why you're looking else where!

    Currently set up as a 140mm front, MRP ramp, Luftkappe and offset bushings (which I might ditch as it seems to have killed some of the pop n fun)

  31. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post
    So here is a question. I was all set to upgrade to the new SBG Smuggler but then the wonders of 2 crashes in 2 weeks and a private healthcare system means I've just blown exactly half that budget on ER rooms, specialists and have 4 cracked ribs, dislocated / fractured shoulder, broken lil' finger and roasties from shoulder to butt. Got to love Hospital Plans that don't actually cover the ER room of a hospital.

    So looks like I'm sticking with my Mk1 Smuggler. Not that much of a bad thing but I am interested in trying a new shock and have these 2 in my sights:

    1 - Cane Creek DB IL Coil
    2 - Ohlins Stx22 air

    Not that I have anything against the Monarch that is on there and I get the bike was designed around it pretty much but I just wonder what either of the others would be like.
    That's odd that you didn't get covered. I was in the hospital a few weeks ago due to a crash and under the ACA, your insurance is required to treat the hospital you go to for emergency care as in network. At least, that's what I was told. Maybe your in-network fees are higher, but for me, it saved me a buttload. Either way, heal quickly and sorry to hear about that.

    I have a DBCoil IL on the way. I'll write back my impressions once I get it installed and a ride on it. A friend of mine has one on his and really likes it, the weight diff is only ~1/2lb or so, but the performance is supposed to be improved pretty dramatically for some riding. I think if you hit a lot of big jumps or drops, that's when it could become less desirable.

    Before someone says Transition said not to run coil, I reached out and they told me they had heard people having good luck with them.

  32. #732
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    Thanks for the feedback. I'd love to hear your impressions on the coil once it's on. I'm leaning towards the CC as it'll be a different feel. I'm not hucking, gapping or taking more than 3 - 4ft drops (and not that often) but I do like hard hitting trails, enduros and liked CC bill it as a coil for trail riders.

    I'm based in South Africa and Medical Aid is a business like no other here. It's one of the most expensive monthly costs and gives you so little unless it gets serious / fatal / rare. First crash in 5 odd years so guess I'm still up in the luck game.

  33. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I'd love to hear your impressions on the coil once it's on. I'm leaning towards the CC as it'll be a different feel. I'm not hucking, gapping or taking more than 3 - 4ft drops (and not that often) but I do like hard hitting trails, enduros and liked CC bill it as a coil for trail riders.

    I'm based in South Africa and Medical Aid is a business like no other here. It's one of the most expensive monthly costs and gives you so little unless it gets serious / fatal / rare. First crash in 5 odd years so guess I'm still up in the luck game.
    Ah, I assumed you were in the US. Big mistake on my part.

    I'll let you know. I talked to CC about it too and their advice was that if you were riding trails with fast, small features then the coil is probably the way to go, but if you are hitting big drops or jumps then you'd chew up the travel too quickly. The folks at Transition did recommend a low compression tune.

    My plan is to start with the base tune with a few less clicks of LSC, then go from there. I may also run it closer to 30% sag since the coil has a lower breakaway than the air does. We'll see how it plays out.

    I mentioned this in an earlier post but I had a coil on a trailbike before, a 130mm 27.5, and found it really helped the bike in a lot of different areas. It got hung up less on climbs, it kept speed through chunky sections better, but it definitely chewed travel through a bit more. I didn't notice the weight and it was considerably heavier (1lb) since it had a piggyback.

  34. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    That's odd that you didn't get covered. I was in the hospital a few weeks ago due to a crash and under the ACA, your insurance is required to treat the hospital you go to for emergency care as in network. At least, that's what I was told. Maybe your in-network fees are higher, but for me, it saved me a buttload. Either way, heal quickly and sorry to hear about that.

    I have a DBCoil IL on the way. I'll write back my impressions once I get it installed and a ride on it. A friend of mine has one on his and really likes it, the weight diff is only ~1/2lb or so, but the performance is supposed to be improved pretty dramatically for some riding. I think if you hit a lot of big jumps or drops, that's when it could become less desirable.

    Before someone says Transition said not to run coil, I reached out and they told me they had heard people having good luck with them.
    It's not so much the drops and jumps, the Smuggler seems to do well there for me, and I've hit some fairly big ones. I'd like more stability/tracking when hitting chunk/steep stuff, going to a 140 fork helps. I think a coil would be a definite improvement in that area. It would definitely hold a line better. That's really the only time I notice the limitations of 115 mm of travel on this bike! Pretty amazing. I'd venture to say the new 130 travel may be perfect, but I'm already set on a Sentinel, so I'll be keeping my 2017 Smuggler around for a little longer.

  35. #735
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    Nice. I was looking for some tune guidance online and found very little esp on the CC portal / app. I think I'm going to take a chance on the coil as I can get it at a very good price. I missed out on one a few months ago and was still kicking myself when his new option came up. I checked the charts on the leverage ratio and it looked pretty sweet for us.

  36. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by monts View Post
    It's not so much the drops and jumps, the Smuggler seems to do well there for me, and I've hit some fairly big ones. I'd like more stability/tracking when hitting chunk/steep stuff, going to a 140 fork helps. I think a coil would be a definite improvement in that area.
    Oh, I meant with the coil. The coil won't have the progression of the air shock, so if you hit drops hard you may find you bottom out a lot more with the coil rather than an air shock.

    My experience going to the coil is exactly what you mention, better stability and tracking through chunky, fast sections.

  37. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Oh, I meant with the coil. The coil won't have the progression of the air shock, so if you hit drops hard you may find you bottom out a lot more with the coil rather than an air shock.

    My experience going to the coil is exactly what you mention, better stability and tracking through chunky, fast sections.
    Ahh, got ya. Definitely! I had a coil on my Patrol and would constantly bottom it out on drops, but never had a problem elsewhere. I ended up switching back to air for that exact reason!

  38. #738
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    That's the thing I'm wanting but couldn't really describe. The 140 fork and MRP / Vorsprung really sorted the front but I just want that little bit more on the chunk and rougher sections to track and stay planted. We don't have the big hit stuff here but we have nice rocky steeps, rock rolls, rock gardens and chunky trails. In that respect the harder type of short travel 29'r is so good here. Banshee Phantom / Orange Stage 5 / Orange Segment / Process.

    I was tossing up the new Orange Stage 5 as a change but then the reviews of the new Smuggler came in and to be honest the Sensual here would be over biked. Much like I thought I'd want a Wreckoning over a Following but when I tested both the Following make the most sense for the use / terrain.

  39. #739
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    Hey all. Looking at the Smuggler XO1 build or the 2018 Trek Fuel EX 9.8 for my next bike. Unfortunately I wont have a chance to demo them till I get back stateside in a couple months, but looking to see if anyone has tested the 2018 Smuggler vs the 2018 Fuel EX. I wont buy till I demo, but Id love to hear some feedback while I research.

    Thanks!
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  40. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbeltramo View Post
    Hey all. Looking at the Smuggler XO1 build or the 2018 Trek Fuel EX 9.8 for my next bike. Unfortunately I wont have a chance to demo them till I get back stateside in a couple months, but looking to see if anyone has tested the 2018 Smuggler vs the 2018 Fuel EX. I wont buy till I demo, but Id love to hear some feedback while I research.

    Thanks!
    Haven't tried the Fuel but the XO1 Smuggler is a blast. So fun and very versatile.

    I weighed the L I demo'd with a Park scale and it was 30 pounds 6 oz with pedals.

    Getting one in March.



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  41. #741
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    sbd--how tall are you and what is your inseam----I found the large to feel short and others have also---thus thoughts of going XL

    Note the large has a long reach but fairly short top tube----which was a surprise and is why it feels short pedaling----no longer than my short 429trail---and the XL has a huge reach---all frustrating as I wanted this bike to fit --but the Fuel and HT seem better for me in XL

  42. #742
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    I am just over 6 feet with slightly long arms and legs.

    I have been riding MTBs since 91 and the reach was a bit old school and I mean that in a good way.

    Lots of weight on the front wheel, great angle over the pedals, and ample opportunity to move back and let the HTA do it's thing when it gets steep.

    Funnest bike I've ridden in ages.

    I think some people are missing the point on the fit.

  43. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    sbd--how tall are you and what is your inseam----I found the large to feel short and others have also---thus thoughts of going XL

    Note the large has a long reach but fairly short top tube----which was a surprise and is why it feels short pedaling----no longer than my short 429trail---and the XL has a huge reach---all frustrating as I wanted this bike to fit --but the Fuel and HT seem better for me in XL
    That's because of the steeper seattube angle. I think those who are finding smaller sizes feeling "short" are talking about how it feels in the saddle. That's a big part of the SBG change. But I can attest they feel great in the climbs. I guess my point is, go for the reach you want, and don't stress too much about top tube.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post

    So looks like I'm sticking with my Mk1 Smuggler. Not that much of a bad thing but I am interested in trying a new shock and have these 2 in my sights:

    1 - Cane Creek DB IL Coil
    2 - Ohlins Stx22 air

    Not that I have anything against the Monarch that is on there and I get the bike was designed around it pretty much but I just wonder what either of the others would be like.
    BTW, you can make Monarch much better with tuning. It has very heavily preloaded compression stack in order to get pedalling support. I went with linear stack of similar stiffness (compression lever does not have much effect now) and it feels good. Matching the high speed rebound with your weight is also important. Transision uses shock low rebound tune which is good for light riders. I'm over 100kg and went with high tune + one extra shim. I can now open up the low speed rebound and get balanced rebound for small and large hits.

  45. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    BTW, you can make Monarch much better with tuning. It has very heavily preloaded compression stack in order to get pedalling support. I went with linear stack of similar stiffness (compression lever does not have much effect now) and it feels good. Matching the high speed rebound with your weight is also important. Transision uses shock low rebound tune which is good for light riders. I'm over 100kg and went with high tune + one extra shim. I can now open up the low speed rebound and get balanced rebound for small and large hits.
    This is interesting to me - can you share some details on how you performed the tune?

    Specifically, where you got parts, if there was a guide you used, etc.
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  46. #746
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    I've been riding my Smuggler for about 4 months now, and it's been one hell of a bike. Originally I had built up with mostly parts from my previous bike with the intention of upgrading as I went. I have been riding it with a 150mm fox 34 fork, but have just replaced it with a 140mm Pike. The difference is astounding!

    As good as the Fox was ploughing through downhill chunk, it was a bit vague in corners and the front would wander a bit on techy climbs. I'm really amazed how much difference 10mm makes, it's night and day. The handling is so much more precise, the front wheel stays planted and overall I think the Pike just feels way better.

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  47. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    This is interesting to me - can you share some details on how you performed the tune?

    Specifically, where you got parts, if there was a guide you used, etc.
    Rockshox has documented the full service procedure:

    https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...._r_english.pdf

    (I assume you have Monarch RT3 shock).

    There is also thread about hacking the Monarch shimstack: Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack

    Page 13 of the service manual lists all the tools and materials you need (actually they miss the nylon compression balls from the list). You can skip some special tools like Monarch vise blocks, but you definitely need Monarch air valve adapter and bench vise, Rockshox suspension oil, seal grease and replacement compression balls.

    The procedure itself is not too complicated, but definitely requires attention.

    You need some extra shims. Racing Suspension Products used to be the best place to get shims, but unfortunately they are out of stock for 9x19 shims that are used on the rebound side. Now it depends how much do you weight - if you are lighter rider then you don't need to stiffen the rebound. If you are heavier rider then I think the best option is to buy replacement shim kit from Rockshox that includes extra 9x19 shims.

    Rockshox spare parts catalogue lists those kits on page 119

    https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...._spc_rev_b.pdf

    11.4118.023.042 Tune Assy, Monarch RT3 Reb-High/Comp-High (CF-110lbs) soft threshold, LF-320, C1/D1

    or

    11.4118.023.050 Tune Assy, Monarch RT3 Reb-High/Comp-High (CF-110lbs) firm threshold, LF-320, C1/D1

    gives you most shims.

    My compression stack is simply four 9x22x0.25 shims + one 9x19x0.15 shim. You can get the 0.25 shims from Racing Suspension Products. This stack is equal to stock stack for bigger hits, but has less resistance in case of smaller movements. Shock is much more lively, it will not hang up on roots, etc.

    Rebound stack depends entirely on your weight. I'm 100+ kgs so I took high rebound stack and added one extra shim.

    Shock is very well balanced to my Manitou Magnum.

  48. #748
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    Smuggler

    Going thru the numbers on a v2 Smuggler, it seems Im between sizes, not sure which direction to go. Im currently on a v1 Megatrail, and tried to complement it with a Following, whose seat tube was too slack. Looking now at the Smuggler for its long geo and steep STA.

    Heres a look at my current bikes numbers, which I feel very comfortable on, a Trail Pistol which is also in the mix, and both sizes of Smuggler. Particularly confounding is the full inch in reach that the L Smuggler has on the M Megatrail, where every other number other than STA is very close. Im 510, FYI. Any help is much appreciated.


  49. #749
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    Do not own but rode a large and previously posted it felt small----note the short TT----
    I am 6 foot and long legged 34.4 inseam-----

    Others also felt the bike was small and of course others on this forum have discounted this but offered no reason for feeling that way

    I am still mulling over going XL but have not found one to see if that is crazy large.

    Suspect you are a large

  50. #750
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    I'm 6' 3" and have been on a large patrol and XL smuggler. The extra reach is part of the complete SBG package and does not feel excessive at all. I'd go large assuming you wouldn't have too much seat post, but you probably can't really go wrong either way.
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  51. #751
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    I ended up on a Smuggler because I was between sizes on a GG Smash. I'm 5'8" on a medium Smuggler and it feels awesome. But, If I were 2" taller, I'd buy a large.

  52. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbd View Post
    I've been waiting for a new steed for too long and have demod a number of bikes in this category and this is my favorite by a lot. Basically felt like a Ripley that knows how to party.
    I like the sound of this!
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  53. #753
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    Have no transition dealer near me! Smuggler looks ace. I'm about 6,1 and a half. Transition recommend a large with 170 dropper but looking at that pic above by SBD looks like my seat would be even higher! PCT loper above at 6 foot said a large felt short! I have long legs short upper body. Do you think XL would be a better option? Cheers!

  54. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick123 View Post
    Have no transition dealer near me! Smuggler looks ace. I'm about 6,1 and a half. Transition recommend a large with 170 dropper but looking at that pic above by SBD looks like my seat would be even higher! PCT loper above at 6 foot said a large felt short! I have long legs short upper body. Do you think XL would be a better option? Cheers!
    I'd follow Transition's advice. I'm 6'3" with longer legs and a Patrol with a 170mm dropper was fine. Otherwise, I'd just pick whichever one has the reach and wheelbase that seems better to you.
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  55. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick123 View Post
    Have no transition dealer near me! Smuggler looks ace. I'm about 6,1 and a half. Transition recommend a large with 170 dropper but looking at that pic above by SBD looks like my seat would be even higher! PCT loper above at 6 foot said a large felt short! I have long legs short upper body. Do you think XL would be a better option? Cheers!
    I'd follow Transition's advice. I'm 6'3" with longer legs and a Patrol with a 170mm dropper was fine. Otherwise, I'd just pick whichever one has the reach and wheelbase that seems better to you. Most people saying these bikes feel short are talking about how it feels in the saddle because of the steeper seat tube. The SBG also mitigates the longer wheelbase, it feels like it corners like a shorter bike. But it doesn't feel short. If that makes any sense.
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  56. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruppguts View Post
    I'd follow Transition's advice. I'm 6'3" with longer legs and a Patrol with a 170mm dropper was fine. Otherwise, I'd just pick whichever one has the reach and wheelbase that seems better to you. Most people saying these bikes feel short are talking about how it feels in the saddle because of the steeper seat tube. The SBG also mitigates the longer wheelbase, it feels like it corners like a shorter bike. But it doesn't feel short. If that makes any sense.
    Thank you for your reply ruppguts. Was that on a Large Patrol? 2018 model? Thank you

  57. #757
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    rick123----yes the bike felt short and I am 6 foot with a 34.4 inseam----hard for me to believe a large will fit you at all. I have found that if you call a factory you will get an opinion and if you call back you may get another----the entire sizing issue for us is irritating at best.

    The short feel is just sitting as the top tube is short----again no longer than my 429 trail Pivot which has gotten continual feedback that it is short.

    I would also like to test an XL but so far nada------in the meantime I am looking at the Fuel and HT in XL. I suspect the Smuggler just does not fit and me wanting it to does not change anything----some bikes fit and some do not---life

  58. #758
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    Yes. Large, 2018
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  59. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruppguts View Post
    Yes. Large, 2018
    So today I visited a brilliant little shop with an XL patrol and a L sentinel.

    Something very strange

    The XL patrol felt perfect just sitting on it with my saddle height in climbing position.

    The L Sentinel with the saddle height in climbing position felt very stretched out!

    So confused just looking at the geometry numbers and the Patrol in XL has a longer effective top tube so should have felt more stretched out.

    Very confusing. Does having a smaller frame with the seat post sticking out further relative to the frame size increase the ETT more than if I had an XL with the seat post inserted more but with a larger reach?

    Thanks

  60. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finksta View Post
    I've been riding my Smuggler for about 4 months now, and it's been one hell of a bike. Originally I had built up with mostly parts from my previous bike with the intention of upgrading as I went. I have been riding it with a 150mm fox 34 fork, but have just replaced it with a 140mm Pike. The difference is astounding!

    As good as the Fox was ploughing through downhill chunk, it was a bit vague in corners and the front would wander a bit on techy climbs. I'm really amazed how much difference 10mm makes, it's night and day. The handling is so much more precise, the front wheel stays planted and overall I think the Pike just feels way better.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    What type of terrain? Lots of rocks/roots or more like whats in your photo there?

  61. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    What type of terrain? Lots of rocks/roots or more like whats in your photo there?
    Everything from smooth flow trail to rooted out and rocky. There's a decent mix of stuff in my local area.

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  62. #762
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    I noticed the SBG Smuggler is part of The Bible this year. It will be interesting to see what they say. They liked the original.


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  63. #763
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    2018 Smuggler
    Threaded BB Check
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  64. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbd View Post
    I understand what you are saying. The SBG layout feels different. It weights the front by shoving everything way forward.

    In the basic parking lot "fit test" it felt a bit crowded and kinda old school. With this kind of HTA you expect the the front tire to be more in front of you.

    On the trail I did a number of tight up hill switch backs and the front stayed planted with zero body english and no weird floppy steering.

    Also felt the position made for really nice climbing. On rolling climbs I was doing better than my normal pace.

    Once I pointed it downhill I could stay forward for insane traction on the front tire or shift back for drops. It was wet and slippery on my ride and traction was very impressive.

    I've been waiting for a new steed for too long and have demod a number of bikes in this category and this is my favorite by a lot. Basically felt like a Ripley that knows how to party.

    For an ancient retired BMX er that started riding MTBs in 1990 it was the ideal blend of precice steering (like the old days) coupled with modern efficiency and geometry. Loved it.





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    I was wondering if you mind comparing this to other bikes in the category that you demoed. I want to like 29ers but not sure. I ride 650b am 5'8" and out of the 3 29ers I demoed only liked the Pivot Switchblade. The Ripley LS and Norco Optic c9.3 didn't do it for me. Did you ride any of those? Right now I can't decide between a Switchblade or Smuggler in 29er or a Pivot Mach 5.5, Transition Patrol or Scout in 650b.
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  65. #765
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    Looking to build up a 17' frame for the spring but having a very hard time deciding which size I should go with - the only Transition dealer I know of around here just unfortunately closed so I'm SOL on finding a demo.
    According to Transition's site I'm square in the middle of L and XL territory, at roughly 6'2.
    My legs are pretty short though - my inseam is only ~33"
    My primary bike recently has been a 17' steel Honzo - really like the fit of that.
    Would love to hear any experience someone around my size has had with sizing

    Cheers

  66. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach17 View Post
    Looking to build up a 17' frame for the spring but having a very hard time deciding which size I should go with - the only Transition dealer I know of around here just unfortunately closed so I'm SOL on finding a demo.
    According to Transition's site I'm square in the middle of L and XL territory, at roughly 6'2.
    My legs are pretty short though - my inseam is only ~33"
    My primary bike recently has been a 17' steel Honzo - really like the fit of that.
    Would love to hear any experience someone around my size has had with sizing

    Cheers
    Checking geo of the Honzo, 17" = medium, the large Smuggler is closest in size.

    However, 6'2" is generally a tough call on Transition bikes, you can really go either way... if you like some extra playfulness and ability to get around tighter turns a little easier, pick large; if you want a little more stability over flickability, pick XL. Forget all the talk about up sizing; think of your favourite trails and the attributes that will make it more pleasureable.

  67. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by noose View Post
    I was wondering if you mind comparing this to other bikes in the category that you demoed. I want to like 29ers but not sure. I ride 650b am 5'8" and out of the 3 29ers I demoed only liked the Pivot Switchblade. The Ripley LS and Norco Optic c9.3 didn't do it for me. Did you ride any of those? Right now I can't decide between a Switchblade or Smuggler in 29er or a Pivot Mach 5.5, Transition Patrol or Scout in 650b.
    I also tried the LS. I liked the precision of the steering and the efficiency of the suspension but is felt a lot twitchier and more like what I'd expect from a "short travel" bike.

    I've tried a number of other bikes. They either felt like too much bike for my needs or more like the Ripley.

    The Smuggler hit the sweet spot. It was snappy, fun, and remarkably plush downhill. For the type of trails in my area (flow with the odd technical sections) it's just what I'm looking for.

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  68. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyOrange View Post
    Checking geo of the Honzo, 17" = medium, the large Smuggler is closest in size.

    However, 6'2" is generally a tough call on Transition bikes, you can really go either way... if you like some extra playfulness and ability to get around tighter turns a little easier, pick large; if you want a little more stability over flickability, pick XL. Forget all the talk about up sizing; think of your favourite trails and the attributes that will make it more pleasureable.

    I wasn't super clear with what I meant - lo siento. I meant 17' as 2017, and completely forgot to mention that the Honzo I currently ride is a large.
    I would say the trails I ride definitely favor maneuverability over stability at speed (mostly in PA).
    So I'm probably leaning toward the large at this point even though the reach would be a little bit shorter than my Honzo, and realistically I'm not nearly as tall as some of the guys on here who are rocking the XL.

  69. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach17 View Post
    I wasn't super clear with what I meant - lo siento. I meant 17' as 2017, and completely forgot to mention that the Honzo I currently ride is a large.
    I would say the trails I ride definitely favor maneuverability over stability at speed (mostly in PA).
    So I'm probably leaning toward the large at this point even though the reach would be a little bit shorter than my Honzo, and realistically I'm not nearly as tall as some of the guys on here who are rocking the XL.
    Hi,
    I dont have the same model years, but I have a 2016 Honzo Ti and a 2017 Smuggler. Both in Large, and they ride similarly enough for me to make swapping between bikes easy.
    I'm 179cm and weight about 100kg rtr.
    I guess that given that the 2017 Honzo L and 2018 Smuggler L have the same (static) reach, these two sizes should be equally comparable.

  70. #770
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    A little Black Friday gift to my Smuggler @ 65% off I couldn't say 'no' to the coil!

    Now to work out what all the knobs and dial do.

    Smuggler-img_9368.jpg

  71. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post
    A little Black Friday gift to my Smuggler @ 65% off I couldn't say 'no' to the coil!

    Now to work out what all the knobs and dial do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow! Looks like a ton of fun!!! Was your LBS blowing out the 17s or something?

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  72. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Wow! Looks like a ton of fun!!! Was your LBS blowing out the 17s or something?

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
    It's a 2015 / 2016 smuggler and the Cane Creek DBCoil IL was on special on Black Friday. I'd been thinking about one for a while but couldn't really justify the full cost on a whim so when I saw the LBS was 65% off on this 190x50 one I jumped on it asap.

  73. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post
    It's a 2015 / 2016 smuggler and the Cane Creek DBCoil IL was on special on Black Friday. I'd been thinking about one for a while but couldn't really justify the full cost on a whim so when I saw the LBS was 65% off on this 190x50 one I jumped on it asap.
    I picked up one Black Friday too, but I haven't mounted it yet. I'll be anxious to hear your impressions.

  74. #774
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    Anybody else notice that 2017 and earlier Smugglers now have suggested sag of 35%? Could've sworn it used to be 32, but the archives on the Transition site say 35.

  75. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick123 View Post
    So today I visited a brilliant little shop with an XL patrol and a L sentinel.

    Something very strange

    The XL patrol felt perfect just sitting on it with my saddle height in climbing position.

    The L Sentinel with the saddle height in climbing position felt very stretched out!

    So confused just looking at the geometry numbers and the Patrol in XL has a longer effective top tube so should have felt more stretched out.

    Very confusing. Does having a smaller frame with the seat post sticking out further relative to the frame size increase the ETT more than if I had an XL with the seat post inserted more but with a larger reach?

    Thanks
    Yes it does, the reason for that is that the actual seat tube angle is very slack. This is the problem with "broken" seat tube designs such as Transitions(and pretty much every other MTB brand with the same suspension layout)

    If you have funny long legs compared to your torso, ETT gets really long really fast.

  76. #776
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    I have a feeling it was recommended at 33% standing 35% seated previously but could be mistaken. They covered it in the Bible of Bikes reviews on youtube.

  77. #777
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    i think it's more like 34.44% sag or 17.334 mm. that's really the sweet spot for the Smuggler.

  78. #778
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    Haha. I was running as much as 40% sag for a couple of rides trying to get the DPS to not feel like shit and it still pedaled great. Blew through the travel way to fast (obviously), but my takeaway from trying a couple of shocks on this frame is that it likes plenty of sag.

  79. #779
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    Bible test is up...carbon comment @6:20ish

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mfSXOwx1L4

  80. #780
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    Need some advice in a choice for a new bike and since Im leaning towards a smuggler build Im posting here. I have a sentinel build on order but delivery was in spring here in Scandinavian-land. The slackness of it got me worried that its a bit too much for the terrain here (lots of up and downs but in short bursts, but pretty burly rocks and roots all over, not many turns but some tech climbs for sure. Earn every vertical the hard way.. Anyway, started to lean towards a smuggler instead, thinking Im going to have my shop build one for me with a dropped down 160 fox 36 (to 150mm). Thinking I could then also run it at 160 if I go on a trip that demands it. Also looking at the CC DB inline coil with that remote lockout switch, thinking it could come in handy in the terrain I just described. Then Im considering going plastic on the wheels to save on weight, but dont wanna end up with wheels that cant take the beating the frame and suspension is down for. Any suggestions there? Been looking at Santas reserve, but whats the IRL tire clearance for the smuggler?
    At 64 and 34 inseam (all torso) I got my eyes on a XL, anyone near those measurements that has demoed one, no demos to be had out here.. Wonder if I can run a post longer than 150mm without it being too long..

    Happy holidays!

  81. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Need some advice in a choice for a new bike and since Im leaning towards a smuggler build Im posting here. I have a sentinel build on order but delivery was in spring here in Scandinavian-land. The slackness of it got me worried that its a bit too much for the terrain here (lots of up and downs but in short bursts, but pretty burly rocks and roots all over, not many turns but some tech climbs for sure. Earn every vertical the hard way.. Anyway, started to lean towards a smuggler instead, thinking Im going to have my shop build one for me with a dropped down 160 fox 36 (to 150mm). Thinking I could then also run it at 160 if I go on a trip that demands it. Also looking at the CC DB inline coil with that remote lockout switch, thinking it could come in handy in the terrain I just described. Then Im considering going plastic on the wheels to save on weight, but dont wanna end up with wheels that cant take the beating the frame and suspension is down for. Any suggestions there? Been looking at Santas reserve, but whats the IRL tire clearance for the smuggler?
    At 64 and 34 inseam (all torso) I got my eyes on a XL, anyone near those measurements that has demoed one, no demos to be had out here.. Wonder if I can run a post longer than 150mm without it being too long..

    Happy holidays!
    You are definitely an XL based on my demo. I am just under 6-1 and I could move up.



    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  82. #782
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    Thanks sbd

  83. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Need some advice in a choice for a new bike and since Im leaning towards a smuggler build Im posting here. I have a sentinel build on order but delivery was in spring here in Scandinavian-land. The slackness of it got me worried that its a bit too much for the terrain here (lots of up and downs but in short bursts, but pretty burly rocks and roots all over, not many turns but some tech climbs for sure. Earn every vertical the hard way.. Anyway, started to lean towards a smuggler instead, thinking Im going to have my shop build one for me with a dropped down 160 fox 36 (to 150mm). Thinking I could then also run it at 160 if I go on a trip that demands it. Also looking at the CC DB inline coil with that remote lockout switch, thinking it could come in handy in the terrain I just described. Then Im considering going plastic on the wheels to save on weight, but dont wanna end up with wheels that cant take the beating the frame and suspension is down for. Any suggestions there? Been looking at Santas reserve, but whats the IRL tire clearance for the smuggler?
    At 64 and 34 inseam (all torso) I got my eyes on a XL, anyone near those measurements that has demoed one, no demos to be had out here.. Wonder if I can run a post longer than 150mm without it being too long..

    Happy holidays!
    I have no experience with new Smuggler, but I can comment on old one. Neil from Velotek in Uppsala was so kind to organize a demo of XL for me last year. Im similar size to you, cm or two shorter, bit longer legs and arms. XL fits me very well. Im running 70mm stem. I have 160mm Bikeyoke Revive and there is 7cm of post body showing - havent checked the maximum insert numbers though. It climbs very well. I retuned the shock - there is now no pedal platform, fully linear shimstack and it still pedals well - but Im spinner type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post
    It's a 2015 / 2016 smuggler and the Cane Creek DBCoil IL was on special on Black Friday. I'd been thinking about one for a while but couldn't really justify the full cost on a whim so when I saw the LBS was 65% off on this 190x50 one I jumped on it asap.
    You have a chance to ride with this yet? What did you think?

  85. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOYOHO View Post
    A little Black Friday gift to my Smuggler @ 65% off I couldn't say 'no' to the coil!

    Now to work out what all the knobs and dial do.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've been running the DB IL Coil for about 6 months including bike park jumps and it has handled everything great. Smuggler-img_3596.jpg
    Instagram: @steven_bikes

    2018 Transition Sentinel Carbon aka Sledge Hammer

  86. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    At 64 and 34 inseam (all torso) I got my eyes on a XL, anyone near those measurements that has demoed one, no demos to be had out here.. Wonder if I can run a post longer than 150mm without it being too long..
    Definitely XL for you.
    Im 6'4 and 35.5 inseam.
    XL Smuggler feels good, nearly small.
    No way I could ride a L.
    Picture with 160mm Seatpost.
    Smuggler-2.jpg

  87. #787
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    Stealthy with a 140 Pike.
    Smuggler-img_20170701_134034.jpg

  88. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    You have a chance to ride with this yet? What did you think?
    Had a few rides here on it and I rate it, alot. I was a bit sceptical when buying because of al the coil hype about but a buddy of mine got one on his Banshee Spitfire and couldn't recommend it enough. He's a guy who I trust but I was still going to be annoyed if I shelled out that coin on s a new shock when really it's got a pretty good stock standard one out of the box.

    I promised I'd do proper loops and tune accordingly on the first session. Diligently recording the results, tweaking the setting like a good nerd because there is a lot going on on that thing... so I did one run. Abandoned all those ideas and took the bike up to my main rock rolling, root infested, drop off-tastic line and then railed all day long. Out of the box is was pretty spot on just needing to adjust some HSR and HSC to balance it out and keep it feeling lively but super planted. As you'd expect the small bump action is the main feature when climbing and on the slower stuff but what I like is the very planted feeling you get from the rear from it when pushing hard into corners and forging your way through rocky descents at pace. It's still got enough fun to hop off line, pop out of berms and switch it up with that smuggler trail feel we love mixed with some extra burliness behind that doesn't get put off by things getting hairy.

    I'd been scared about the 'linear' side of things with all the talk being about tokens, progression, blah, blah, blah and maybe I'm not the best judge of the finer points n feelings between the two shocks but it worked and it worked darn well so it's staying on while I keep smiling.

  89. #789
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    my smuggler 2018

    bought this last week had one ride so impressed its a flyer
    came home installed GX Eagle, Halo vapour wheel set renthal bar and stem
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Smuggler-smuggler-2.2-.jpg  

    Smuggler-smuggler-1.2-.jpg  


  90. #790
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    Thanks

    Is that picture accurate in color rendition you reckon? Looks a lot more mint (as in bright green) than what Ive seen before on their site and other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiWi View Post
    Definitely XL for you.
    Im 6'4 and 35.5 inseam.
    XL Smuggler feels good, nearly small.
    No way I could ride a L.
    Picture with 160mm Seatpost.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  91. #791
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    Hi
    the picture you show is a better image of the colour
    my wife the picture then enhanced it ?
    they are a very dull subtle colour but look great

  92. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblom View Post
    Thanks

    Is that picture accurate in color rendition you reckon? Looks a lot more mint (as in bright green) than what Ive seen before on their site and other places.
    I took the picture with my phone (Honor6a), its not enhanced or anything.
    Maybe a tad of green shade is caused by reflections of the background ?

    I took picture when the frame arrived with the same phone.
    Its a more neutral background.
    Smuggler-img_20171201_154814.jpg

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    Nice, yeah whitebalance and play some nice tricks on any camera. Thanks, dropping in on that one!

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    Finally Tranny drops the carbon Smuggler...

  96. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiWi View Post
    I took the picture with my phone (Honor6a), its not enhanced or anything.
    Maybe a tad of green shade is caused by reflections of the background ?

    I took picture when the frame arrived with the same phone.
    Its a more neutral background.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Did you happen to get a frame weight before you built the bike?

    Thanks

  97. #797
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    The frame as pictured (with shock and rearaxle, without headset, size XL) came in at 4.4kg which is 9.8 lbs.
    I was quite shocked how heavy it was to be honest.
    My 2015 / 2016 Rune and Spitfire are featherweights compared to the new smuggler.
    The smuggler felt more like my Darkside frame when I handled it.
    Last edited by MiWi; 01-19-2018 at 02:26 AM.

  98. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiWi View Post
    The frame as pictured (with shock and rearaxle, without headset, size XL) came in at 4.4kg which is 9.7 lbs.
    Here is another XL, 9.8lbs as well.
    2018 Bikes... why so heavy?

  99. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiWi View Post
    Here is another XL, 9.8lbs as well.
    2018 Bikes... why so heavy?
    Interesting that the XL Smuggler and Sentinal are the same weight. Originally I was looking at the Sentinal, but thought that for most of my riding the Smuggler would be more suitable and it might just be a little lighter.

    Since they are both the same weight, it is down to geo differences and I can't imagine the Sentinal to be much worse for climbing, and I doubt anyone has really ridden both and be able to give a comparison.

  100. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmantrials View Post
    Interesting that the XL Smuggler and Sentinal are the same weight. Originally I was looking at the Sentinal, but thought that for most of my riding the Smuggler would be more suitable and it might just be a little lighter.

    Since they are both the same weight, it is down to geo differences and I can't imagine the Sentinal to be much worse for climbing, and I doubt anyone has really ridden both and be able to give a comparison.
    They are not the same weight.

    The Sentinel seems to weigh almost two pounds more if you look at peoples posted "real" weights.

    Bible of Bikes tested both if you're look for a comparison.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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