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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptd View Post
    FWIW, I'm on a Scout, never ridden a Patrol.
    I've got Fox 36 @ 150mm and a -2 degree headset.

    Coming from a 160mm bike, it does what I wanted, now 90% of the ride is better, 10% of gnarly -marginally- worse. On the 160mm it was all a bit un-fun and tame except on the 10% gnarly.
    I miss bombing the 10% gnarly, so I wish I had a carbon Patrol - ha!

    As a fun bike - great
    As a race bike - maybe miss 160mm but my personal times are comparable
    n+1
    Thats some heavy "modding" ...
    That setup would make for a 64.5 HA even more slack than the patrol.
    I can see what you're doing by making a more responsive rear with a slack setting.
    But for me I dont like the idea of changing a bike that much.

    You're absolutely correct that I should focus on the 90% of my riding, but my riding style is quite varied in the way that my group dont ride for "speed/effectiveness" at all. We seek out all the technical features and have fun on those.

    It's a tough choice, good thing I have at least a month before the 2017 models are announced and I "need" to decide

    n+1 works for some, not for me.

  2. #102
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    Anybody have issues with the low BB height of the scout (330mm vs 339mm on the patrol)? I ride a Bandit, same BB height as scout and get plenty of pedal strikes and I set the sag to about 20%. Given the recommended 35% sag on the scout, I think I'd be smashing pedals all day long.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonlespaulspecial View Post
    Anybody have issues with the low BB height of the scout (330mm vs 339mm on the patrol)? I ride a Bandit, same BB height as scout and get plenty of pedal strikes and I set the sag to about 20%. Given the recommended 35% sag on the scout, I think I'd be smashing pedals all day long.
    The bb drop is only 10mm on the Scout and 15mm on the patrol. So sag wont play that much of a role here.


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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    The bb drop is only 10mm on the Scout and 15mm on the patrol. So sag wont play that much of a role here.


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  5. #105
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    The website says 20mm bb drop for the Scout, no? Most trail bikes seem to have ~15mm drop + ~25% sag. Seems like 20mm drop + 35% sag just might be too low, of course that's just me looking at the geometry table and not having trail experience with the bike. My LBS is having demo days for all their brands except Transition...

  6. #106
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    At least your LBS carries them...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibsonlespaulspecial View Post
    The website says 20mm bb drop for the Scout, no? Most trail bikes seem to have ~15mm drop + ~25% sag. Seems like 20mm drop + 35% sag just might be too low, of course that's just me looking at the geometry table and not having trail experience with the bike. My LBS is having demo days for all their brands except Transition...
    Your correct scout 20mm drop, patrol 15mm drop.

    As for too low, yeh its a tradeoff. Being low to the ground has some nice benefits for in the bike handling department. I do agree, I hit my crank arms on things, but I'm rocking an alloy crank that is not expensive.


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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konanim View Post
    Just my 2 cents:
    I took a Scout and a Patrol together with a friend for a test ride.
    We took turns riding AM loop that includes tech uphill, some flowish descents, very tech downhill and some kickers and drops (largest drop was 5ft).
    We redid most of the sections swapping bikes to get a feel for the difference and this was excellent because we could compare back to back runs.
    Patrol:
    Climbs pretty well for a 160mm, even surprising
    Slower to change directions
    Gives a bit of a "disconnected" feel i.e you feel/react to terrain in a more muted manner
    Pumps OK
    Absorbs drops/ Landings like butter
    Scout:
    Fast and Agile
    Turn on a dime and feels a lot more planted than Patrol
    You can feel terrain (I mean this in a good way - supple not jittery, but allows you to react)
    Pumps amazing!
    Manuals and bunnyhops easily!
    Climbs easier than Patrol
    Descends quicker than Patrol (again - depends on the rider)
    Absorbs drops/ Landings well (5ft drop was fine!) but you need to be a bit more precise - less room for error

    Note: Currently riding a Kona Process 134, I ride AM with a focus on descents and occasional DH. I don't ride long rides (no more than 25k)

    Conclusion:
    I was all set to buy the Patrol but was amazed by the Scout.
    My friend (who rides another 160mm enduro bike) felt the same way.
    The Scout handles better and responds quicker and suits a more active rider. If your trails/riding is more to run over everything and hold your line, maybe Patrol is the better choice. For me, the Scout was the winner! (... and I was biased against it)
    I'm considering upgrading the fork to 150mm to give me a slightly slacker HA for descents.
    Again, reviews can only go so far and a back to back test proved this

    Good Luck!
    How does the Scout compare to the Process 134?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  9. #109
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    I'm in a bit of a quandary & need some advice. I'm currently rocking a scout & love its agileness & how playful it is. I did have a patrol beforehand & while at first I missed its extra travel I grew into the scout & sold on the patrol. I'm in the lucky position of being able to get a carbon patrol & wondered if anybody out there has rode the carbon vs alu vs scout. I've read that the carbon patrol is a lot stiffer & accelerates noticeably quicker but the geo is the same but would like any opinions from carbon patrol owners. thanks

  10. #110
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    Bought a Scout 2 a couple weeks ago. I rode it back to back w/ the Patrol and really liked that bike too. You can't go wrong with either. The Scout, however, is just a bit more fun to play around on and while there are a lot of good 160mm travel bikes available, there aren't many aggressive shorter travel bikes. If I were to have a one bike stable, I'd might go with the patrol-- but I'm just going to keep my 2011 Reign X for the really intense stuff. I've actually been mostly riding with the rear shock in the locked position which makes it a fun ride for the local park.

    By the way, the Reign X has a low BB as well, so I was prepared for lots of banging against the BB and pedal strikes, but it's actually slightly better, probably because the rear isn't so squishy. That and it's a heck of a lot easier to just hop over big roots instead of having to run over them.

  11. #111
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    Hey everyone, this thread has been amazingly helpful. I'm reaaaaaaally hoping to upgrade to a Scout from my 2012 SC Heckler this fall or next spring/summer. I'm wondering what are the best online retailers to buy from? A quick Google search shows wrench science and evo. I've never ordered anything through either so I'm not sure if either is any good. Are there others as well? I think the closest LBS to me is about an hour away that only carries a limited amount of transition bikes. Plus, I'm a bit of a hermit so I prefer to buy online anyways. 👍

    I'm in wesrtern Colorado if that helps. I'd appreciate any advice, thanks! Cheers!

  12. #112
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    I got mine through evo. They were very friendly.

  13. #113
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    Cool and good to know. Thnx for the heads up

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by motomike View Post
    Ok, its a rainy day here so I'll bite. Due to a theft, I have significant time on both the Patrol and Scout. It is a really tough comparison because both bikes are so fun, but I'll try to explain what I found....

    -I truly believe both bikes are just as capable at going as fast as you want. The difference to me is the feeling. The Patrol wants to smash the trail to pieces, the Scout wants to go just as fast but jump over things the whole way.

    It's a really tough call between the two bikes and I'm still contemplating on which one to keep now that the Patrol mysteriously came back home. If you have any more specific questions between the two, fire away!
    For all intents and purposes, I live in South Lake Tahoe and we have quite a bit of rocks on our trails here, but a lot of steep tech climbing to get to anything downhill. Ive owned a 2005 rocky mountain slayer 5 and 5 71deg HA and currently ride a 2006 Enduro 6 and 6 with a 66.5deg HA.

    I'm leaning towards the scout because I love flying uphill and never had an issue with my Rocky except for the super steep headangle. there aren't too many big, huckable features on our trails but they do get rough (lots of rock steps, rock constructed erosion control lines and baby heads).

    Did you feel like you were getting beat up doing the slightly gnarlier/gnarly downs on the scout or is it simply having to pick a line rather than blow through? Once again I'd love to slay my buddies once again gong up and I don't mind picking up the back end of the pack down as long as I'm not getting bounced around the trail constantly.

    Also, how does BB clearance compare on the two?

    Thanks a ton!

  15. #115
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    All the info on this thread is incredible. I too am looking at either a Scout or Patrol. Been riding a Superfly 29er for several years. I ride northern VT (kingdom trails and Burke park and Blue Hills Vietnam trails around Boston) and am 6'3" and around 220. Sounds like I can't go wrong with either bike but am wondering if given my size is the Scout still enough bike? Super gnarly DH is what I do the least but certainly do about 10-15% of the time.

    Thoughts?

  16. #116
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    May I aks why you don't consider a smuggler?
    If one bike for all (scout or patrol), I would go for the patrol. In generell, I would always sacrifice some playfulness for more stability - but that's also personal preference.

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    Thanks for responding!

    Quote Originally Posted by aenduro View Post
    May I aks why you don't consider a smuggler?
    If one bike for all (scout or patrol), I would go for the patrol. In generell, I would always sacrifice some playfulness for more stability - but that's also personal preference.
    Thanks for the quick response!

    Great question. I rented a Smuggler last weekend which is why I'm interested in the Transition brand now. It was great and I noticed that is wasn't quite as responsive around corners as my Suoerfly 29er. Maybe I just needed more time to get used to it? I then rode a Giant Trance which is a 27.5 which was great fun to ride, and more responsive quicker handling around corners but didn't feel as solid or well built to me. (?) not sure if my size and weight are that relevant in this decision making process.

    I'm not a gear expert and don't have huge experience with lots of different bikes. I've owned this Suoerfly and also a Rumblefish 1 which was my first full suspension bike. Both 29ers. I have learned so much riding them and have improved my skills monumentally riding up here in northern VT. I thought a smaller wheel would allow for some more flexibility and also help to improve my skills. There is such a multitude of equipment, geometry options et al it can be overwhelming. There was something about that Transition Smuggler that really felt different than other bikes I've ridden over the past few years. Just felt and looked like a bike that was built with some thought and care. I am also an active road biker and have 2 beautiful steel frame Pegoretti's so I appreciate a well made bicycle. Mountain biking is taking over now as my passion. (Will be selling one of my road bikes!)

    I appreciate the insights and experiences from all on this forum helps me learn a lot.

  18. #118
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    I was pretty much set on the Scout already, and this thread confirms it.

    I'm still undecided on size though. At 6'-2" I've always ridden large frame. Current bike is a Carbine. I've parking lot tested a large Patrol with 50mm stem and it did seem a little tight...

    So at that height, who's ridding a large vs x-large?

  19. #119
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    I'm about 5'10.5 and at the extreme end of the medium and low end of large. I think the Transition sizing graph is pretty spot on. I can ride either frame. But the scout is supposed to be "playful" and the smaller frame helps.

    I'm actually contemplating building up a hard tail now that I've been on shorter travel. I think the lesson I've learned is not to buy a bike for 10% of my riding, which is what I had before with the Reign. I can't bomb downhill like I could w/ 7" travel, but the other 90% is more fun which more than makes up for it.

  20. #120
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    Scout 2017 is finally here!

    Scout 2017 Kit 3 with the following changes:
    1. Pike bumped up to 150mm
    2. Raceface Atlas bars cut to 780mm
    3. Superstar Nano X flats
    4. Raceface love handle grips
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Scout or Patrol - the big decision. Who's riden both?-p_20160908_085208.jpg  

    Scout or Patrol - the big decision. Who's riden both?-p_20160908_085228.jpg  

    Scout or Patrol - the big decision. Who's riden both?-p_20160908_081813.jpg  

    Scout or Patrol - the big decision. Who's riden both?-p_20160908_085302.jpg  


  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konanim View Post
    Scout 2017 Kit 3 with the following changes:
    1. Pike bumped up to 150mm
    2. Raceface Atlas bars cut to 780mm
    3. Superstar Nano X flats
    4. Raceface love handle grips
    Damn! Pike at 150 looks fun! Have you had it on the trails much? How has it been?


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  22. #122
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    Pike at 150 is sweet on these bikes. Thats what I've been running too. Bike looks great!

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jozz View Post
    I was pretty much set on the Scout already, and this thread confirms it.

    I'm still undecided on size though. At 6'-2" I've always ridden large frame. Current bike is a Carbine. I've parking lot tested a large Patrol with 50mm stem and it did seem a little tight...

    So at that height, who's ridding a large vs x-large?
    6'3" on an XL and even at that i don't have any extra room.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberstein View Post
    6'3" on an XL and even at that i don't have any extra room.
    I have an order put for an XL 2017 Scout 3, black on black. Can't wait!

  25. #125
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    Well since my Scout 2 got stolen I'm now back to looking at both the Patrol and the Scout. Some more input after 5 months of ownership below.

    I rode both the Scout and a Suppressor (26" Patrol) down my favorite trails a few times back to back. The flow trail was more fun on the Scout. I could get more out of pumping and got more air off features. Fast rooty rocky was more fun on the Suppressor, if you're trying to go fast.

    I rode the Scout down Braille trail at Demo Forest near Santa Cruz right before it was stolen. This trails is majorly rutted and steep with roots all over. I was behind a group of peeps on enduro bikes and I couldn't keep up. I'm sure on the Reign X or Suppressor I could have just blitzed down along with them, but I was getting pitched around a whole lot trying to roll it. At the nastier bits I had to slow down and hop stuff. The bike did a somersault when I got bogged down in one rooty section, but I dismounted so it ended up OK.

  26. #126
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    I have both bikes. Had the 2015 AL Scout (upgraded 2), demo'd the carbon Patrol, was blown away and got the 2016 Build 1, and now have one of each. The Patrol is a more stable bike, and is better in the chunk, just like you would expect in a 150/160 bike versus a 125/140 bike. Considerably better. I do have the Pike at 150mm on the Scout rather than 140mm.

    In truth, the Patrol is superior in every way, minus long rides where pedaling efficiency is better on the Scout. For me, I notice the difference in fatigue at about mile 14.

    I think it's simple. If you're more about trail riding, and want to have a bike that you can go ride pretty much everything minus the biggest of hits, and the roughest of the rough, then the Scout is probably the bike for you. More efficient, less fatigue. In "trail mode" the thing just rides like a dream on longer Epic rides. If you enjoy the bigger hits, rough stuff, and getting rowdy more than longer trail rides, then the Patrol is the ticket.

    I can ride the Scout over anything I've done on the Patrol...but it's considerably slower. You can't monster truck anything on the Scout. On the Patrol, it just soaks up everything, but doesn't lose the poppy feeling.

    Generally speaking, the Patrol is the better bike IMO. Unless you're headed out on a trail ride that's going to be over 15 miles of fairly intense paced riding with some steep climbs, the Patrol is a more versatile bike. My carbon Patrol is every bit as poppy as my AL Scout. I cannot speak for the Carbon Scout, but it wouldn't handle chunk or big hits as well as the Patrol regardless.

    The Patrol shines on the descents. It's planted, handles like a dream, and you can still hop anything. I can't keep nearly the pace downhill on the Scout that I can the Patrol.

  27. #127
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    Yet another person with the same dilemma, scout or patrol? I'm coming from a large Turner rfx. At 5'10" I was right on that point between sizes.

    My riding is normally rocky steep trails in the Peak District (UK).

    The Turner felt like a burly all mountain/trail bike rather than the defined dh bike that some 260 frames can feel like, hence the dilemma.

  28. #128
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    I reasoned this out in another thread. I'm just shy of 5'11", inseam about 30-31", wingspan also 5'11". Standing, I feel great on a medium. Sitting and climbing, large feels great. I can always adjust stem size, but can't make the frame longer for the climb. I owned a medium for several months. Just bought a large so I'll see if I'm right

    And I think basically you'll have a rougher ride on the Scout vs the Patrol, but it's easier to hop. So do you prefer to run things over and go fast or hop over things?

  29. #129
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    I've had my 150mm forked Scout now for about 2 years and I've used it for all kinds of riding including a couple of less techy Enduros. I've recently picked up a second hand Patrol as well to build into a dedicated Enduro/Park/travel bike for racing the local Enduro series as well as travelling with (lets me ride parks as well as check out trail rides).

    I'm actually surprised by the difference between the two bikes - very different feel and handling. The Patrol is more like a mini-DH bike in comparison as it is slower to get up to speed, but then maintains much better through the rough stuff and gets hung up less. Not as poppy, but lets you get away with more mistakes without sacrificing momentum and is bit of a handful for long and flattish trails or smooth "flow" trails though. Not sure how I'd go doing a 50km day on it.

    If you're deciding, take a look at what most of your friends are riding for where you ride. If everyone is running Enduro bikes, the Patrol will probably be your best best. If its more AM or trail stuff, then the Scout would be my pick. It descends so capably that you can keep up with people on longer travel bikes pretty easily.

    If Transition did a 140mm Scotroll (Patrout?) with 150mm fork/66º HA as an in-betweener, I'd probably just get that and do away with trying to keep two bikes running.

  30. #130
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    interesting observation. i have a Smuggler and Patrol, and demo'd a Scout. due to reviews and maybe other reasons, a lot of people see the Scout and Patrol as closer than they are. the Patrol is a 'big bike' in almost every sense. yes it has great ride attributes, but it's very close to a Reign in feel. a local sold his and got a Slayer and says they are very much alike. 65 is 65 is 65° and that plays a big role in how these bikes ride. i like mine, but i'm trying to love it. the Smug just does so many things easier and takes less energy to ride on most trails. when speeds get high and shit gets real it switches over. i'm not sure i'm hardcore enough sometimes for the Patrol. i'm also thinking of dedicating more time to it, even on easier trails in order to get use to it. the timing and cornering are quite different to the Smuggler and that messes me up sometimes. i'm lucky to have 2 bikes, but there is a drawback in not being all-in with one ride and style. many of my mates ride only 6" AM bikes as their only. and then the one dude rides a Scalpel on trails and terrain it has no business on and kills it. it's intense.

  31. #131
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    Couldn't agree more. I don't know why I expected them to be more similar (maybe because they look the same? I dunno) but they're truly very different bikes. I've not ridden a smuggler but I'd tend to agree with the sentiments. I suspect that with identical tyres and build I'd actually be faster on the 150mm forked Scout on a few enduro tracks than the Patrol!

    Where the Patrol really makes up time is those steep techy bits where i find myself comfort braking on the Scout because I run out of traction and stability. It also tends to hold traction better through really messy corners. The Scout is a better pedalling/sprinting bike though and cetainly more nimble in tighter sections.

  32. #132
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    it's why i've become a bit fascinated with a couple of bikes, mostly the Devinci Troy. like i say, i'm lucky to have 2 bikes that are really good at a lot of things, and one brutal bike for super intense descents, but from what i've read and heard about the Troy, it's that right in between bike. may pedal as good as a Sc or Sm, and be almost (but not quite) as good going down as a P. i found a shop a couple hrs away that has an xl to demo and i'm going to find out. in my area, there are many bikes and many bike shops, no one bike sticks out really, except for 2. RM Altitudes and Instincts. the racier climbers go Inst, the more DH guys the Alt. big shop support and bro deals helps. lots of Ranges as well. a group ride will have 3 pure enduro bikes, 3 trail bikes, and equal number xc trail bikes. BC has incredible terrain and many dudes, only one bike. what that one is for me, i still haven't figured it out!
    (i will say this though. if you're going on a long ride where pure play is not the focus, 29ers are awesome. the Smuggler is a killer trail bike, but no it won't pop n play with the lightness and ease of a Scout)

  33. #133
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    Cunning, please update us after riding the Troy. I like the idea of something right in b/w the Scout and Patrol. TIA

  34. #134
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    Yeah, I love my Scout but can see why a 140mm bike would be a good option. I'd just hate to lose the playful nature of the Scout. Worth checking out the Banshee Spitfire, Kona Proces 134 and the Evil Calling if you're after something somewhere in between Scout and Patrol territory.

  35. #135
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    Actually, I wonder if the 2018 Scout will remain the same. I kind of expect that they will move to a metric shock (like the Patrol did) but also if they will take advantage of the eye-to-eye vs stroke ratio advantage of a trunnion mount and maybe boost the travel a little? Perhaps not if it messes with the fun characteristics the Scout is so loved for.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by toodles View Post
    Couldn't agree more. I don't know why I expected them to be more similar (maybe because they look the same? I dunno) but they're truly very different bikes. I've not ridden a smuggler but I'd tend to agree with the sentiments. I suspect that with identical tyres and build I'd actually be faster on the 150mm forked Scout on a few enduro tracks than the Patrol!

    Where the Patrol really makes up time is those steep techy bits where i find myself comfort braking on the Scout because I run out of traction and stability. It also tends to hold traction better through really messy corners. The Scout is a better pedalling/sprinting bike though and cetainly more nimble in tighter sections.
    That's the biggest difference...the stability at speed. I have an angleset in my Scout, and a 150mm Pike. So....it sits at close to 65*, right with the Partol in terms of HTA. It does affect it slightly on the climbs, but adds a lot of stability at speed. HOWEVER, it's still not as stable as the Patrol. Also, because of the travel and lev ratios, the Patrol keeps a MUCH more precise line in the chunk. And...since my Patrol is carbon and the scout is AL, there's virtually no difference in how poppy and lively the bikes feel. You don't feel the difference in pedal bob, until about mile 15, and the fatigue with the Patrol will show itself vs. the Scout. Especially with the Scout in "trail" mode front and rear.

    However, if you put me on pedally single track that's tight and twisting, the Scout will beat the Patrol easily. It's just a little faster in tight cornering with its geo. But...anywhere else, and the carbon Patrol is still the more fun bike to ride. I know, "It's not a fair comparison, because your Scout isn't carbon." I agree to some extent, but the weight is identical, and I've demo'd the carbon scout on two different occasions, and while it's definitely a little more poppy and playful than the AL scout, it still has the same "stability at speed and through chunk" differences.

    If you're looking to make your Scout a little more capable, look into a little longer fork and an angleset from Cane Creek. Mine works without a hitch, no creaking, and it does make the Scout more fun to hammer the descents on.

    But...the carbon Patrol just has magic in it. No other way to put it. I've ridden a TON of bikes, and that bike is just a great all around rig.

    I was interested in the Intense Recluse, but after having ridden it...it's so close to the Scout that it doesn't have my attention. I'll tell you what does though...the Evil Wreckoning. Wow. That bike is NICE, and the roll over is noticeable.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWAtrailyguy View Post
    I was interested in the Intense Recluse, but after having ridden it...it's so close to the Scout that it doesn't have my attention. I'll tell you what does though...the Evil Wreckoning. Wow. That bike is NICE, and the roll over is noticeable.
    I'm not super interested in going to a 29er and changing all my components but the Evil Calling looks like a really fun option that is halfway between the Scout and Patrol in terms of travel and angles. The seat post angle does seem pretty slack though, and I love super steep seat angles.

    If Kona did a carbon version of their 134 Process I think it would be a good contender as well, plus they run lifetime warranties which is a great touch and confidence inspiring.

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