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  1. #1
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    Patrol with Coil?

    Anyone running a coil shock on their Patrol?

    Right now I am using the stock Debonair and I'm really liking it so far. I do switch between the open and medium compression settings on the Monarch depending how much climbing or descending I am expecting. And I notice that with the compression open the shock feels very plush but maybe moves through the mid-stroke a little quick. No harsh bottoming though.

    I have an opportunity to upgrade to a DHX2 and wanted to see if anyone has some feedback or comparison regarding air vs coil on the Patrol.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  2. #2
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    The Debonair is very tunable.

    If you feel like it is moving through mid-stroke too quickly, you can make it more linear by removing the red volume bands from the inside of the outer sleeve (simple to do). You will run a tiny bit more pressure, ride a little higher in the stroke, and of course have a little less small bump sensitivity (since you're not having as much mid-stroke reaction).

    IT's a little bit different feel. The adjustability of the Debonair is remarkable, and I'd suggest fiddling around with it some before spending a bunch of money on a new shock.

    Having said that, there are some people running coil shocks on the Patrol.

  3. #3
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    Can you give some more impressions of the new ride? I'm hoping to go down the carbon patrol path very soon.

    BTW a coil Avy would be very interesting on this bike.
    Enjoy The Ride

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  4. #4
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    Running an RC4 on mine. Works awesome. A LOT better than the stock RockShox on high frequency stuff. The stock shock does work well overall though, but is never going to be as compliant as a coil no matter what they do with the negative chamber.

    400# ti spring for a 185-190# rider yields exactly 35% sag FYI.


    I thought about an X2, but they're expensive and honestly not all that proven yet for long term production durability. The damper character is also a LOT more adjustable in compression with the boost valve than the X2 valve which is just a needle/stack with a spring backer. Just missing the one rebound adjustment, which I've found most people can't get set right anyway.

    The RC4's are durable enough and easy to find inexpensively. I'm pretty over paying to guinea pig for these suspension companies.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH28 View Post
    Running an RC4 on mine. Works awesome. A LOT better than the stock RockShox on high frequency stuff. The stock shock does work well overall though, but is never going to be as compliant as a coil no matter what they do with the negative chamber.

    400# ti spring for a 185-190# rider yields exactly 35% sag FYI.


    I thought about an X2, but they're expensive and honestly not all that proven yet for long term production durability. The damper character is also a LOT more adjustable in compression with the boost valve than the X2 valve which is just a needle/stack with a spring backer. Just missing the one rebound adjustment, which I've found most people can't get set right anyway.

    The RC4's are durable enough and easy to find inexpensively. I'm pretty over paying to guinea pig for these suspension companies.

    Thanks for the feedback. Pretty set on the DHX2 and got a message from Transition saying that's the coil they would recommend also. I had the X2 on my Nomad for about 6-7 months before I got the Patrol and I really liked it. Never had any issues and really appreciated the ability to fine tune things.

    I used the Fox spring calculator and came up with 350lb spring and we're the same weight, curious that you're at 400. I'm planning on trying a couple different spring weights on cheap coils and then I'll pick up a SLS.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbrain View Post
    Can you give some more impressions of the new ride? I'm hoping to go down the carbon patrol path very soon.

    BTW a coil Avy would be very interesting on this bike.
    I am really happy with the Carbon Patrol so far. I really wasn't even shopping for another 160ish bike but my buddy found a deal and so we jumped on it.

    First impression was that I liked the fit way better than the Nomad. The Patrol is also a lot more of a fun bike, meaning it is easier to pop off trail features and just goof. Funny enough the Patrol also feels better at speed due to the longer reach.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    First impression was that I liked the fit way better than the Nomad. The Patrol is also a lot more of a fun bike, meaning it is easier to pop off trail features and just goof. Funny enough the Patrol also feels better at speed due to the longer reach.
    Stop it already would you? LOL
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    I am really happy with the Carbon Patrol so far. I really wasn't even shopping for another 160ish bike but my buddy found a deal and so we jumped on it.

    First impression was that I liked the fit way better than the Nomad. The Patrol is also a lot more of a fun bike, meaning it is easier to pop off trail features and just goof. Funny enough the Patrol also feels better at speed due to the longer reach.
    Thanks. You are on the carbon patrol correct? How does the bike do climbing, short punch stuff or otherwise?

    As you know we have some tech with punchy climbs here in Austin so not quite the extended climb of your back yard.
    Enjoy The Ride

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbrain View Post
    Thanks. You are on the carbon patrol correct? How does the bike do climbing, short punch stuff or otherwise?

    As you know we have some tech with punchy climbs here in Austin so not quite the extended climb of your back yard.
    Yup, carbonium.

    I really like the way the Patrol climbs. We do have some long ass climbs around here, but a majority of our trials are mixed terrain with some pucnhy/ techy climbs. The Patrol is very easy to climb and even though I have a 170mm fork on the front it stays planted. It is easy to lob it up ledges and can be pushed through those awkward root staircases.


    Patrol with Coil?-img_1623.jpg
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  10. #10
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    Awesome looking rig!
    Enjoy The Ride

    http://ridestoke.com

  11. #11
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    There can be only one, Elevensix by PUSH, nuff said.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    There can be only one, Elevensix by PUSH, nuff said.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
    meh
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    There can be only one, Elevensix by PUSH, nuff said.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
    not according to some people. I personally wouldnt be able to tell the difference between an DHX2, CCDB coil or a 11-6. I'd like a coil on mine but the weight and cost is a no go sadly. a CCDB coil is about 1kg with their own steel spring.

    I've got my monarch set up pretty good running 30% and no bands. its no coil over the small stuff but still pretty dam good.

  14. #14
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    I couldn't get along with the Monarch. Moved to an Avy'd fox van; the traction is primo up or down. Just like with any horst link, you have to adjust your pedaling technique when out of the saddle, but it climbs very well in all terrain and conditions. There is one particular situation where I wished I had a "switch" , that being grinding up a medium-steep grade with deep undulating pockets. With a coil and no switch, it eats up a little extra energy, but still very acceptable ride. For the riding that I like to do, the added weight is negated by the gobs of traction and predictability the coil provides.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    There can be only one, Elevensix by PUSH, nuff said.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
    Agreed! I'm running an Avy open bath Pike and Avy tuned Fox Van and will likely pull the trigger on the 11-6 in the near future. I just don't think there is a replacement for custom tuned valving. Price obviously makes it a not so great choice for some.

  16. #16
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    I have had the 2016 Carbon Patrol for a while now. I ditched the RS Debonair and replaced it with the FOX DHX2 Air. The DHX2 Air I felt has a wider range of tuning for that bike over the Debonair.

    The Patrol is a true "do it all bike" that really needs a shock that can handle everything up to high speed hits that I felt the Debonair just could not handle. The DHX2 Air can. I will say though that the tune based off FOX's web site is not for the Patrol and will take a little time to get dialed in right if you know what you are doing.

    As for the DHX2 Coil, I had one as well that I will put on the Patrol for big park riding. I am 175lbs and run a 425lb spring. The Coil I found to be a little bit more challenging to tune for the Patrol, but feel after a few more times at the park I will have it dialed like I have my DHX2 Air.

    I would say if you are looking to have just one shock that will help the Patrol progress to its true potential, I would go with the DHX2 Air.

    More on my bike here:
    2016 Custom Transition Carbon Patrol - fclinder's Bike Check - Vital MTB

    Good luck and happy riding,
    Cecil
    Ride!

  17. #17
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    Looks good man, I have shelve the desire to put a DHX2 coil on the Patrol. Ended up spending the coil shock money on a shock for another bike.

    It is interesting to hear that you had troubles with Debonair on high speed hits. I've had pretty good luck with the shock in those situations. Even in high speed repetitive hits the shock feels good. It's kinda a double edge sword because I like how plush the shock feels, but its seems to blow through the travel too quick. No harsh bottom outs, not crazy bobbing but it just seems like it could use a little more support in the middle to bottom of the travel. The middle compression setting feels too firm for rowdy descents and the open setting is a little too soft most of the time. And now that I have two Debonairs that fit the Patrol (warranty return from another frame) I am considering the Avy treatment for one of them. For the money it'll be hard to beat a custom tune.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Looks good man, I have shelve the desire to put a DHX2 coil on the Patrol. Ended up spending the coil shock money on a shock for another bike.

    It is interesting to hear that you had troubles with Debonair on high speed hits. I've had pretty good luck with the shock in those situations. Even in high speed repetitive hits the shock feels good. It's kinda a double edge sword because I like how plush the shock feels, but its seems to blow through the travel too quick. No harsh bottom outs, not crazy bobbing but it just seems like it could use a little more support in the middle to bottom of the travel. The middle compression setting feels too firm for rowdy descents and the open setting is a little too soft most of the time. And now that I have two Debonairs that fit the Patrol (warranty return from another frame) I am considering the Avy treatment for one of them. For the money it'll be hard to beat a custom tune.
    I've been happy with the Avy tune on my smuggler debonair.
    Enjoy The Ride

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  19. #19
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    Yup. I got a dhx2 w/2pos on my bike now. the air shock was better for trail riding. But the coil eats it hands down in the gnar.

    Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    Which one takes drops and jumps better? Running the same sag on each?

  21. #21
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    I can eventually get an used dhx2 from a friend with a 400# SLS spring and 2pos switch. With gear I have ~170lbs, not really sure bout the spring rate; the mojo spring generator doesn't consider the SAG.
    The patrol is my do-it-all bike, but since I'm not really in the long uphill business but more lift/bike park and short home tracks and I guess I won't suffer from the coil disadvantages that much.
    Another alternative would be to send in the monarch plus for a tuning (mid valve etc); at the moment I have 4 bands in it and ~ 33%; that's oke for touring but in park and rough terrain the rear feels pretty dead and harsh. Taking out band results in more bottom outs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenduro View Post
    but in park and rough terrain the rear feels pretty dead and harsh. Taking out band results in more bottom outs.
    not just too much rebound damping making it feel harsh?
    Record your bike setup on your iPhone http://www.bike-setup.com

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsfsr View Post
    not just too much rebound damping making it feel harsh?
    among other things, sure.
    I can't identify the clicks within my monarch plus - they are not really defined (mechanically)... if u know what I mean.
    I will again take 2-3 bands out, varify with pressure and rebound. How much rebound do u use?

  24. #24
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    Are people running 35% sag also with coil or is it more important to get a spring more suitable to your riding area?

    I have no previous experience with coil but found the 350 spring that I have now a bit soft as I needed 4 rounds of preload. A 400 is on its way. Will it make a big difference when it comes to bottom out resistance with a dbcoil? I also have a 500 spring but that gave me around 20% sag which felt strange compared to the Monarch on the Patrol.

  25. #25
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    160ish with 375lbs on x2 feels pretty good not sure on sag%
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced, one must keep moving. - Albert Einstein

  26. #26
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    What's the shock size on the patrol?

    Transition website has it as 230mm x 65mm (9.0" x 2.5")

    Cane Creek shock fit finder has 216mm x 63mm (8.5" x2.5")

    So what is the eye to eye?

  27. #27
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    230x 65 is the new metric shock on the 2017 patrol, the 15/16 have the 216 x 63.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenduro View Post
    230x 65 is the new metric shock on the 2017 patrol, the 15/16 have the 216 x 63.
    Oh. That makes sense. I didn't think of that. Thanks.

  29. #29
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    I have now gotten more time on my ccdb coil. Running with a 400 spring I do bottom out and feel it a few times when I miscalculate landings on smallish jumps. Other than that I've done some tests on drops and although it moves the bumper down I cannot feel it bottom out. I guess that my spring is a little soft (running 35% sag with two rounds), but it works perfectly if I'm riding smoothly enough. If I'm out of the comfort zone I think 450 might be better but I'm not sure running less sag would be helpful. The Patrol gives so much confidence when running at the recommended sag. Anyone running less sag which care to give their experience with how the bike handles then?

  30. #30
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    running a 350lb nukeproof SLS spring with my CCDB IL coil on a suppressor. Tried both 30% and 35% and couldn't tell any difference on small to medium hits (never did anything big).

  31. #31
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    Anyone using coil on the 2017 Carbon Patrol? If yes, which one?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schreddan View Post
    Anyone using coil on the 2017 Carbon Patrol? If yes, which one?
    I am, but I'm probably too biased to comment on which one I feel is best!

    Patrol with Coil?-16486986_10154975651477103_5659321747495781337_o.jpg

    Darren

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schreddan View Post
    Anyone using coil on the 2017 Carbon Patrol? If yes, which one?
    I am:


  34. #34
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    2016 model with the original link - have been running an RC4 and now a DHX2 w/climb switch.

    On the RC4 the bike got balanced and came alive with a 425# spring and a more aggressive compression setting. I'm around 185-190#. 450# was too stiff and 400# would wallow and kick up from g-outs unexpectedly.

    I'm still playing with rates on the DHX2. The damping seems to kick in more immediately, so I'm on a 400# spring, for now. The X2/425# would deflect and dance around quite a bit more on choppy stuff than the RC4/425# would, which doesn't make sense because there's a lot more gas spring force in the RC4.

    I've ridden a couple of the new 2017 links and they feel a bit nicer off the top, but I haven't seen very many commercially available metric coil shocks to complement it yet.

  35. #35
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    Nice!
    Is that a 230 x 65mm shock?

    I cannot find that size in the Ohlins spec for the TTX22 M Universal.

  36. #36
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    Really nice! .)
    Are you able to deliver them in 230x65 mm now?
    Or is it a sample one?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schreddan View Post
    Nice!
    Is that a 230 x 65mm shock?

    I cannot find that size in the Ohlins spec for the TTX22 M Universal.
    Yep it's 230x65. It was custom made.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Yep it's 230x65. It was custom made.
    Kool! Let me know if you get tired of it! ;-)

  39. #39
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    Where did you go to get it modified? Local ohlins distributor? I'm looking at one for my Slash 29, 230x57.5

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    I am:

    Hi, may I ask what spring rate you are riding and what your weight is? I do have a Patrol C with a 216mm TTX as well and I am curious about the spring rates, leverage ratio has not changed drastically for the metric sized version so I am really curious. I calculated 388lbs / inch for my 175lbs and would go with either a 400 or a 425 lbs spring of EXT (SA racing). Would be happy to hear from you.

  41. #41
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    Brief update to my coil shock experimentation on the Patrol (8.5" shock link, not the metric). I tried a DHX2 coil with a climb switch, with a 400 and a 425 spring. Ultimately I ended up selling it. The frame is just still a bit too linear for a shock like that. Seemed to be susceptible to the same problems that the CCDB's always had - locking up on square edges, or blowing through travel, and really not much in between. This is over a couple months of testing. Probably have better luck with the metric link or a frame with a lot more progressive leverage curve.

    The RC4 by comparison does very well on this frame, as does the stock Monarch Debonair.

  42. #42
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    Got no such issues with mine

  43. #43
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    Not sure if I ever posted this:

    Patrol with Coil?-img_0405.jpg

    Only a couple rides with the coil, been spending too much time on the Scout lately.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

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