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  1. #1
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    Monarch tuning via 'bottomless rings' on your new Transition

    has anyone added the red rubber rings to their Monarch shock on either of the new giddy up bikes? i've got the Smuggler and i'm curious to learn from others experience before i dabble if possible!

  2. #2
    Robtre
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    Mine came with one, but I keep bottoming it out and knocking it off. My question is, if I am 195lbs, can I tune it for a higher weight? I ride fairly aggressive.
    -rides bikes for fun.

  3. #3
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    My smuggler didn't come with any. I've heard the '16s will come with 2 installed. I'm 205# and running about 190psi. I put in 3 rings and can say that after 1 ride it's a much more progressive that ramps up nicely for someone at my weight. I might try 2 next. I think for a bigger rider I makes a lot of sense to run a couple of these, similar to the tokens up front.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    Mine came with one, but I keep bottoming it out and knocking it off. My question is, if I am 195lbs, can I tune it for a higher weight? I ride fairly aggressive.
    wrong ring dude. these kinda rings.
    Video Comparison of RockShox Bottomless Rings in a Monarch Shock - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfsnbrad View Post
    My smuggler didn't come with any. I've heard the '16s will come with 2 installed. I'm 205# and running about 190psi. I put in 3 rings and can say that after 1 ride it's a much more progressive that ramps up nicely for someone at my weight. I might try 2 next. I think for a bigger rider I makes a lot of sense to run a couple of these, similar to the tokens up front.
    same weight as you with same pressure in shock. have 3 rings on order i'll give it a go next week. have you lowered your PSI with the addition of rings? i have never removed a shock from a frame. do it yourself or have bike shop do it? easy enough? i'm afraid of over tightening bolts, etc during the remounting...

  6. #6
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    It's about the same pressure in the shock that gives me 33-35% sag. Maybe 5 less? The job is super easy. Put the bike in the stand, deflate the shock, remove the mounting bolts. With the shock off carefully remove the black o ring that holds the outer can in place. Then slide the can off being careful to not get any crap inside. It's not threaded on. As for putting it back on maybe put a little grease on the outside of the bolts and snug them up. After you're done you'll be surprised how easy it was.

  7. #7
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    yeah 2 fitted to my smuggler, works really well.

  8. #8
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    how would u guys characterize the difference/improvement?

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    has anyone added the red rubber rings to their Monarch shock on either of the new giddy up bikes? i've got the Smuggler and i'm curious to learn from others experience before i dabble if possible!
    The 2015 Smugglers and Scouts came with no bottomless rings. For 2016 we updated the shock tune to include 2 bottomless rings.

    Some people will appreciate the added ramp up... but if you want a more linear feel they are easy to remove.

    Happy tuning!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Bikes View Post
    The 2015 Smugglers and Scouts came with no bottomless rings. For 2016 we updated the shock tune to include 2 bottomless rings.

    Some people will appreciate the added ramp up... but if you want a more linear feel they are easy to remove.


    Happy tuning!
    I'm curious as why none of the Scout builds come with the Monarch Plus RC3? Wouldn't the extra air give that linear feel?

  12. #12
    CAPTIN HARDCORE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Bikes View Post
    The 2015 Smugglers and Scouts came with no bottomless rings. For 2016 we updated the shock tune to include 2 bottomless rings.

    Some people will appreciate the added ramp up... but if you want a more linear feel they are easy to remove.

    Happy tuning!
    Thanks for the info TBC!!!

    On a 2015 and am going to add 2 rings over the winter. I am scrubbing 190lbs with gear and only bottom out here and there with 200psi.

    Also, I may end up switching to a remote Fox DPS hooked up to a Scott Twinloc (budget permitting) and was wondering if you guys had any experience with what tune to go with on the Fox shocks?

    Anyways, the bike is pretty much the perfect trail bike!
    [B]Chillin...Riding I hopeB]

  13. #13
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    DB inline on the scout is pretty good

  14. #14
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    Hmmm. This sounds like a good idea. Debating this or just sending over to Craig at Avalanche for the SSD treatment.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transition Bikes View Post
    The 2015 Smugglers and Scouts came with no bottomless rings. For 2016 we updated the shock tune to include 2 bottomless rings.

    Some people will appreciate the added ramp up... but if you want a more linear feel they are easy to remove.

    Happy tuning!
    Ok, so to revive this old thread I need some help. First can you explain the terms (for dummies) "ramp up" and "linear" in regard to this discussion? They have always baffled me. Second, I have a 2016 Scout and have been tuning for about 5 months now and still don't feel like i've hit that sweet spot. I am typically running 38-40 for sag in an attempt to use full travel, it doesn't bottom ever and there is still normally some travel to be used. I weight about 195ish with gear, give or take the amount of pizza I eat, and run much less PSI in the monarch, about 180 or so. Is a bottomless band or two in my future?

  16. #16
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    if you are not bottoming out, then remove some rings.

    "Linear" means that the incremental increase in force yields the same incremental movement of the shock as you move through the force/displacement range. "Ramp up" or "progressive" means that as you continue to increase the force to compress the shock, the rate at which the shock compresses decreases. With a progressive suspension (the combination of the leverage of the frame's geometry, combined with the shock), the suspension becomes very difficult to bottom-out because the incremental force vs incremental suspension movement becomes high.

    If you're not bottoming out your suspension, then you could use a less progressive setting, and to do that you remove one or two of the red rubber bands in the Debonair (adding bands has the effect of reducing canister volume).

    I'm at 190, or 200# kitted, and on an XL Patrol for over a year now. The Patrol came with a Debonair with 2 bands. I wasn't bottoming out unless i was hitting a flat landing hard, so i took them out. This makes the bike feel super plush on rough stuff, but a tad squishy when sprinting up a little hill (with compression switch open). But for me it is working best.

    Note that a 155mm suspension will be automatically more progressive than a 125mm Smuggler, due to the nature of air shocks and the Ideal Gas Law. I would assume the bands are more often needed in the Smuggler and Scout than in the Patrol.

  17. #17
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    Thanks so much for the replay and suggestions. Scout had two bands on the Monarch, pulled them off and will give it a spin tomorrow. Will keep you posted. Again, thanks, been pulling my hair out over this for some time.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberstein View Post
    if you are not bottoming out, then remove some rings.

    "Linear" means that the incremental increase in force yields the same incremental movement of the shock as you move through the force/displacement range. "Ramp up" or "progressive" means that as you continue to increase the force to compress the shock, the rate at which the shock compresses decreases. With a progressive suspension (the combination of the leverage of the frame's geometry, combined with the shock), the suspension becomes very difficult to bottom-out because the incremental force vs incremental suspension movement becomes high.

    If you're not bottoming out your suspension, then you could use a less progressive setting, and to do that you remove one or two of the red rubber bands in the Debonair (adding bands has the effect of reducing canister volume).

    I'm at 190, or 200# kitted, and on an XL Patrol for over a year now. The Patrol came with a Debonair with 2 bands. I wasn't bottoming out unless i was hitting a flat landing hard, so i took them out. This makes the bike feel super plush on rough stuff, but a tad squishy when sprinting up a little hill (with compression switch open). But for me it is working best.

    Note that a 155mm suspension will be automatically more progressive than a 125mm Smuggler, due to the nature of air shocks and the Ideal Gas Law. I would assume the bands are more often needed in the Smuggler and Scout than in the Patrol.
    So I removed the bands and you were right, def more plush, still not bottoming out, will try a bit more sag tomorrow. Overall I like the feel though w/o the bands. All this tinkering around led me to adding 3 tokens to my pike so I am running a "mullet" setup; progressive upfront and linear in the rear. How are you running your fork?

  19. #19
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    lachoy...

    Again, i'm on a Patrol with a 160 fork which ramps up naturally, and has further to go before it bottoms out, more than a short travel fork on a Smuggler. So it is normal to need some tokens for ramp up on the Smuggler's fork to avoid bottom-out.

    I'm running the Pike volume the same as when i got it (it's spec'd as having no tokens pre-installed in a 160mm fork, but I have not ever checked). I was real happy with it right away, so i didn't change anything except the HSR/LSC and sag.

    I run a small amount of LSC damping (3 or 4 clicks from open) to resist brake dive and g-out resistance, and about 9 clicks out from full slow on the HSR (although damping settings are more personal for your weight and your bike, that's where things are on mine).

  20. #20
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    A bit off topic question, I posted this in the sram form but no one replied.

    On my 2016 Scout, the rc3 lockout lever has no function. No matter what position the lever is in, it seems to be wide open. I looked for a service manual on the lockout, but it does not look serviceable. Any one have any experience here? Or do I need to call the SRAMbulance to fix her up?


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightenup View Post
    A bit off topic question, I posted this in the sram form but no one replied.

    On my 2016 Scout, the rc3 lockout lever has no function. No matter what position the lever is in, it seems to be wide open. I looked for a service manual on the lockout, but it does not look serviceable. Any one have any experience here? Or do I need to call the SRAMbulance to fix her up?


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    I sold my Scout awhile ago, but I don't believe the lockout actually locks the shock. I believe it's one of those marketing things, but the shock is not gonna actually turn the bike into a rigid. It should just create a different "platform" to control pedal bob.

    Maybe I'm wrong, if I still had the bike I would just check it for you.

  22. #22
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    Surprised to hear the talk of adding bands for heavier riders. I have a 2016 with two bands, and have it set at 35% sag. Feels great and bottoms out like once or twice during the ride. Never harsh either. Being 218lb geared up, I was very surprised I wouldn't be needing extra bands due to my weight as expected before purchasing the bike.

    Any tips on the Pike? I'm at 20% sag, don't ever bottom it out and am under the recommended PSI for my weight. I'm assuming I'm a prime candidate for more tokens??

  23. #23
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    I weigh ~220 geared-up, and have been experimenting with the bands on my Scout 4. It came with the two stock bands and I added two more. Before adding the other two bands, I needed 235-240psi to get the recommended sag, and with four bands I need 5-7psi less. For grins I'm going to try it w/o any bands to see if I can get the shock to bottom out (never done so with two and four bands).
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StumpyHarold View Post
    Surprised to hear the talk of adding bands for heavier riders. I have a 2016 with two bands, and have it set at 35% sag. Feels great and bottoms out like once or twice during the ride. Never harsh either. Being 218lb geared up, I was very surprised I wouldn't be needing extra bands due to my weight as expected before purchasing the bike.

    Any tips on the Pike? I'm at 20% sag, don't ever bottom it out and am under the recommended PSI for my weight. I'm assuming I'm a prime candidate for more tokens??
    No you only add tokens/bands when you are constantly bottoming out. The addition of the token/bands reduces air so it has more ramp up at the end of the stroke.

    The recommended PSI for the Pike is waaaaay off! I'm 189 so I should have it at 75-85...I'm running 55psi and haven't bottomed it out yet.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    No you only add tokens/bands when you are constantly bottoming out. The addition of the token/bands reduces air so it has more ramp up at the end of the stroke.

    The recommended PSI for the Pike is waaaaay off! I'm 189 so I should have it at 75-85...I'm running 55psi and haven't bottomed it out yet.
    Even the Sektor's ratings are way off. I remember reading somewhere that you should start at 70% of the recommended pressure in order to use all the fork's travel.
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  26. #26
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    sorry wrong thread

  27. #27
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    so i've had my Patrol for about a month. it's awesome, but you know that. where i live currently, the trails are fast and on the smoother side, relative to where i recently came from (coastal BC). went home to familiar trails and rode the bike on some epic rides on our hardest trails. put it through it's paces. again, awesome bike, but i felt the rear end was not as plush as i expected. a bit firmer despite having 35 and even near 40% sag. so i took out the 2 rings as described by uberstien early in this thread and just rode it today on our roughest local DH trail (not as rough as the coast though) and it is much better. using full travel now or very close to it with that plush feeling i was expecting when the trail get's rowdy. i can see playing around a bit depending on terrain and mood with between 35 to 40% sag. it now feels more coil like without the 2 bands. dig.

  28. #28
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    My Son is 85lbs and the crew at RockShox tried their best to make the shock work for him on his scout. Full (6 I think) stack of rings and changed the neg pressure (not customer serviceable) and its better but think we are going to try a smaller volume can (or different shock) to try to resist the bottom out. The little bike rocks but its hard to tune that shock for such a light yet aggressive rider. Its been good on my Smuggler with 2. But I do get reminded every once in a while that its only 115mm of squish.
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  29. #29
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    I tried the 35% that transition recommend for the suppressor but kept bottoming out. added tape to increase ramp but the shock felt awful and landings were not controlled. Took the rings out and adjusted pressure till I wasnot bottoming out on big landings and the bike is much better over the small and big stuff. couldn't tell you the sag though as I never measured it

  30. #30
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    Hi, anyone knows the factory tune used in monarch debonair on the scout? I'm willing to upgrade on a monarch plus but I don't know if a M/M tune would be alright.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by payze View Post
    Hi, anyone knows the factory tune used in monarch debonair on the scout? I'm willing to upgrade on a monarch plus but I don't know if a M/M tune would be alright.
    Off their website: Shock Tune LL Debonair High Volume, 2 Bands, S 380


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  32. #32
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    oh great, thank you

  33. #33
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    Would it be better to switch to M/M tune anyway?

    Now i ride the monarch with rebond only 1 clik from fully closed

    For compression i ride with less pressure than advertised on their website, and I guess I have no spacers inside since it's a 2015 frame.

  34. #34
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    get a db inline

  35. #35
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    I've been pondering on that one but the reliability issues seems serious!

  36. #36
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    The recommended PSI for the Pike is waaaaay off! I'm 189 so I should have it at 75-85...I'm running 55psi and haven't bottomed it out yet.[/QUOTE]


    Am I doing something wrong because i run my pike higher pressure than recommended for my weight and if i lower the pressure I bottom out quite a lot.

  37. #37
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    Am I doing something wrong because i run my pike higher pressure than recommended for my weight and if i lower the pressure I bottom out quite a lot.

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