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  1. #1
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    2018 Bikes... why so heavy?

    Yeah.. I get it. They aren't weight weenie bikes, built stout for aggressive riders, etc... but still.

    My medium 2015 Scout frame + shock is around 7.2lbs, plenty stout and about the same as my Knolly Warden. Pretty beefy for a 125mm bike.

    Fanatik is telling me the medium 2018 Scout frame + shock is 9.19lbs.

    Huh?

    Why does a 5mm travel increase and more reach require an almost 2lb weight gain?

    Ok, .3lbs of that is the dpx2 vs monarch, but still.

    Seems excessive to me for a 130mm trail bike designed to pedal but I'm sure they had their reasons. At least we know why Keland Hawks is pushing the bike up the hills in the video.

  2. #2
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    My new smuggler is almost exactly the same weight (31 lbs) as my old one with the same parts. And it pedals better, significantly. I wouldn't sweat it, the new bikes ride great.

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    Same weight? That would be cool.

    Not really sweating it. Actually really looking forward to some pro reviews of the new scout and patrol. I have more question marks around the sizing and handling actually, but 2lbs heavier is going to be a thought sell if true.. they’d better be really good otherwise.


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  4. #4
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    I looked online and Fanatik has it at 7.66lbs on their site for the 2018?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by superlightracer View Post
    I looked online and Fanatik has it at 7.66lbs on their site for the 2018?
    That's the XS with no shock.. click the MD size and it jumps to 8.23lbs with no shock.

    Add the DPX2 shock at .97lb and you're at 9.2lb

  6. #6
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    Oh god you're right. Just got off the phone with Fanatik to confirm those numbers. Im second guessing whether i want a scout now!
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    Yeah it's kind of a bummer. I really like transition and aluminum bikes but I think this SBG business is going to have to be magical for me to wrap my head around that kind of weight gain.

    My guess would be they want to create more separation between the aluminum bikes and the super-premium 3299.99 carbon frames that are on the way thinking the HUGE weight differential will help justify the huge price differential.

  8. #8
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    I cannot believe they would do such a thing...

    I have yet to see an actual picture of a frame+shock on a scale. Need to see it to believe it!

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    True.. but you'd think Fanatik has weighed the products and has zero reason to overstate the actual weights.

    Obviously Transition knows what they are doing one way or the other. Lighter aluminum frames require more engineering and usually more expensive materials and manufacturing methods which equals less margin at the magic 1999.00 price point.

    That is a legitimate business decision, nothing shady about it. If the market disagrees with the decision then sales will reflect that.

    What I don't really buy is that that much extra weight was an engineering necessity.

  10. #10
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    While I imagine Fanatik is accurate- I just sent an email to Transition to pick their brain on the weight gain.

    I'll report back when I get a response. If the already heavy'ish frame gained 2lbs, then I may have to look elsewhere for a bike
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  11. #11
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    I believe they improved the frame stiffness a fair bit, a few heavier friends of mine that had pre-SBG models and SBG models said there is a tangible improvement in the stiffness of the frame. Some of them would be able to induce pretty noticeable flex in the frame that is now gone with the new bikes.

    So I expect they are using stronger/thicker alloy, in combination with the length changes, which adds up over time.

    I doubt you'll be able to feel much of it. Many of my friends run bikes with big forks, coil shocks, heavy alloy wheelsets, etc, all which add up to 35 lbs, yet they smoke everyone up and down the mountain. These aren't really meant to be XC bikes, they're gonna be heavy, but I'd take the weight for more control and confidence over lighter frames any day.

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    Yeah I think they're beefed up considerably. The pre-SBG Scouts and Patrols had a few chainstays fail from what I've seen so they're probably more robust. The new rocker is bigger too so there'd be a bit there.

    Transitions response when I asked was that the new frames are about a pound heavier than the old ones.

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    All things being equal what is the difference in weight between an aluminum frame and carbon frame? I know there are a thousand variables...humor me.

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    One would hope the frames got stiffer with ~25% more material added.

    I guess I missed the outcry from riders complaining about the stiffness of the previous generation.

    I mean, I'm 220lb geared up and rode the heck out of my first gen Scout without "noticing" any undue flex.

  15. #15
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    It depends on the manufacturer of course- and the quality of the aluminum and carbon.

    I previously worked at Giant, which has some of the most advanced aluminum hydroforming on the planet. Their aluminum frames were usually only 0.5-0.75lbs heavier than the carbon equivalent.

    With most other manufacturers it seems like 1-1.5lbs is fairly typical.

    Like you say, it comes down to so many variables.
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    2018 XL Scout frame (no shock) is 2 pounds (30%) heavier than my XL Spectral (6.7 lbs). Pretty sure the Scout is the heaviest bike in its class.

  17. #17
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    Got a response from Transition with respect to the Scout:

    "we purposely beefed up the bikes a bit just due to the fact that people were riding our trail bikes much harder and using them at bike parks as well. I will say the bikes pedal even better than our last bikes so the added weight is not noticeable to me. Basically the bikes feel lighter than they are. Not trying to spin marketing hype but just saying what the actual ride feel is. Also we wanted a bigger difference between our alloy and carbon models. I would say don't let the weight number scare you.

    The added weight is really spread throughout the entire frame so not in just one area. For example seatstays got heavier because we changed the brake mount to be more robust and added two rows of enduromax bearings for increased stiffness and longevity. New frames are incredibly stiff and solid feeling which you can notice on the trail. Definitely confidence boosting."
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by superlightracer View Post
    Also we wanted a bigger difference between our alloy and carbon models.
    Wow, maybe I'm just cynical, but it sounds like they're adding weight to the alloy frames to get people to buy carbon. That's pretty lame if you ask me. Am I drawing the wrong conclusion here?

  19. #19
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    I'd say you're wrong... there is no carbon to buy so far. Seems like putting a product on the market so people won't buy it while they wait for the carbon versions is a pretty stupid and ineffective marketing strategy.

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    My advice is don't sweat it much. My large Sentinel is about 1.5lbs heavier than my outgoing Smuggler (w/t piggyback DVO), with the same build, but heavier tires. XOish build, stainless chainring, pinned cassette (midrange SRAM), New butcher tires (1050gr each), 1800gr Nobl 36 wheels, XT pedals. A hair under 33lbs with pedals. I guess I could loose a 1lb with a lighter seat, XTR pedals, EXO tires (or equivalent), etc....but I'm not going to bother **after riding it**. The seating position makes it for climbing...it really does feel lighter than the Smuggler on the climbs....as you are NOTjacked over the back seat (I had a 150mm fork). It is such a relaxing climber on steep switch backs as you don't get from end wander. I guess it probably feels a bit heavier on sustained gravel climbs??? But I'm not sure as I still use the same gearing and I may or may not feel the difference...some days I'm tired, some days I'm not, maybe I should cut down on the beer?? See, it's all subjective right?

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    Kudos to Transition for that reply. Seems like an honest response to an honest question to me, even if I am disappointed that they felt the need to add that much weight.. that will definitely factor into my buying decision.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Kudos to Transition for that reply. Seems like an honest response to an honest question to me, even if I am disappointed that they felt the need to add that much weight.. that will definitely factor into my buying decision.


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    The Smuggler I demo'd was 30 pounds 6 oz.

    Lively climber and a hoot to ride.

    Good enough for me.

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  23. #23
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    Transition's have a history of drive side, chainstays cracking up o_0

    Case in point, a riding m8 & I both owned Transitions that crapped out >.<

    Now riding a Giant & it's beefiness reminds me of my old Kona Process 134...

    Except it's a 160mm Reign & is definitely lighter & pedals slightly better (more efficient) :imo:

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by superlightracer View Post
    "I will say the bikes pedal even better than our last bikes so the added weight is not noticeable to me. Basically the bikes feel lighter than they are. Not trying to spin marketing hype but just saying what the actual ride feel is."[/I]
    Came off a '17 carbon Scout and have been riding a Sentinel for about a month now and I can totally agree with this. Sentinel pedals better, handles tech'y chunk climbs better and according to strava I'm faster on the uphills even though the sentinel weighs probably 3-4 lbs heavier than the scout did.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Yeah.. I get it. They aren't weight weenie bikes, built stout for aggressive riders, etc... but still.

    My medium 2015 Scout frame + shock is around 7.2lbs,

    Fanatik is telling me the medium 2018 Scout frame + shock is 9.19lbs.
    Yes. A med Knolly Endo is 6.3lbs w/ shock and is a burly short travel bike, but it's been heavily optimized to make the most of the frame material.

    9.2 lbs for a trail bike frame seems insane.

    On the brightside there will be a lot of pent up demand for lighter carbon bikes when they hit the shelves.
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  26. #26
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    Weight of aggressive alloy frame seems to be up recently - The new Nomad 4 alu and Process 153 alu weigh at least the same as the new SBG alloy frames and even the new Tallboy alu which is a light duty trail frame weighs about 8lbs.
    IMHO,when you think about how some people ride Enduro/Trail bikes these days, it all really make sense .

  27. #27
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    People ride heavy trail bikes like DH/park bikes because the bikes themselves demand to be ridden that way, due to the chassis design (tuning rigidity vs certain forces, lateral, vertical, torsional, etc). It's like the bike doesn't feel alive unless you're getting it to move/flex under you. It's like a rider is seeking out some sort of resonance, some sort of balance between the rider, bike, and terrain...

    I doubt one would find things getting in tune by putting a 135-160 lb XC rider on it, with weight weenie parts like a 34 Float, Valor wheels, Ikon tires, etc., dragging brakes down bumpy sections and attempting lung busting climbs. This thing likely begs for a powerful rider, either a lean 175 lb one, or an active 220 guy, with a 36 with travel reduced for geometry preserving purposes, and Magic Marys on bombproof wheels, daring to see just what the bike can handle if driven harder and harder.

    That all said, there's a story behind everything. I kind of want to hear the detail behind this. Maybe the SBG design demanded more speed from the rider and their engineer(s) upped the safety factor with that in consideration.

  28. #28
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    The problem with over-building a bike like the Scout is it takes away from the attributes that differentiate it within the lineup... playfulness, liveliness, agility, climbability.

    Adding 2 pounds to the frame because some folks might ride the Scout in situations suited to the Patrol is strange. This on top of the fact that the previous generation was already overbuilt for it's travel IMO.

    If the chainstays were breaking, fine, beef up/re-engineer the chainstays but the fact that they added weight all over definitely speaks to the idea that it was more about making the carbon bikes that much more appealing when they end up weighing 3-4 pounds less.

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    Has anybody actually weighted a frameset...don't make me tear mine down and put it on a scale! (kidding). But seriously, if they beefed it up, and added about 2-30mm of length, no kidding! Honestly when I pulled it out of the box it didn't feel insanely heavier than my smuggler....this thread is the only time I thought about it actually. Honestly my friends large Wreckoning was the first thing that came to mind. Those build up to 33lbs as well. YMMV. You want to talk about seat stay cracking...the new Altitudes still do (know from first hand viewage). So sure optimize, or just shred and put it away wet :-D !

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    I didn't weigh my frames, but my old and new smuggler were super close. Like I said earlier, the builds came out basically the same.

    Transition added length and the rubber down the guard and the rocker is bigger. All of that adds up, but to say they added weight in order to sell carbon frames is paranoid.

    The new bikes are just as playfully and poppy. To anyone that is worried about it, I would suggest demoing one.

  31. #31
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    New bikes are being built for riders that are pushing them much harder. Most riders want XC weight and DH strength. Most of the older bikes where a lot more flexible. Designers are building bikes that don't break and the overall ride is much better.
    Take a look at the specialize S-Works Epic Hardtail. It's lighter than a road bike, but I wouldn't trust it after a could years. It's a $8K throw away bike.
    » Review: Specialized S-Works Epic Hardtail World Cup

    My Tallboy is 1lb heavier than the last generation. You can feel all of the extra stiffness and control.
    All deepens on what you want out of a bike. New ones are lighter if you pick the right bike and stronger if you don't mind the weight.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhbrooks View Post
    I didn't weigh my frames, but my old and new smuggler were super close. Like I said earlier, the builds came out basically the same.

    Transition added length and the rubber down the guard and the rocker is bigger. All of that adds up, but to say they added weight in order to sell carbon frames is paranoid.

    The new bikes are just as playfully and poppy. To anyone that is worried about it, I would suggest demoing one.
    Maybe not thaaaat paranoid:
    "Basically the bikes feel lighter than they are. Not trying to spin marketing hype but just saying what the actual ride feel is. Also we wanted a bigger difference between our alloy and carbon models. I would say don't let the weight number scare you."

    I love when bikes feel lighter than they are.. imagine how light they'd feel if they actually were lighter than they are.

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    i hope some of you guys are buying XL Sentinels, and loving them so much you just have to spring for the carbonium when they come out a year hence. you do realize your alloy frames are going to be virtually unsellable and without value right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    i hope some of you guys are buying XL Sentinels, and loving them so much you just have to spring for the carbonium when they come out a year hence. you do realize your alloy frames are going to be virtually unsellable and without value right?
    whut, now we're talking about resale value? Least of my concerns...there's always somebody that has a budget (we don't all live in Vancouver with 1M in equity) that is willing to build up a nice Alu frame for a good price. My Smuggler took all of 5 days to sell...since SBG bikes have been out. I confess I have carbon hoops 8-)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    you do realize your alloy frames are going to be virtually unsellable and without value right?
    I might look like I'm having tons of fun every time I ride this new bike but this is exactly what's in the back of my mind. It's really stressing me out.
    Last edited by dfinn; 12-06-2017 at 10:56 AM.

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    I think cunningstunts was just pulling the old sarcastic jedi trick because he'd like to score an XL Sentinel cheap.. relax.

    You heavy ass bike riding SBG early adopters are too sensitive.

  37. #37
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    I've been on my XO Scout for about 3 weeks and yeah it's heavy, somewhere north of 30 lbs but it's one of the best climbers in my quiver and my favorite bike overall. Seriously, I don't notice the weight anymore and trust me, you gotta do plenty of climbing to get to the good stuff around here (Santa Cruz and Aptos).
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

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    Transitions already have a terrible resale.... now the whole direct too consumer thing makes that even worse.... half the reason I bought a patrol was based on i felt transition was done with the bad mistakes.... and yet now i will practically give my partrol frame away and move into another brand.... it's always another half thought out idea with this company ..


    The whole sbg things makes these bikes soo proprietary it kinda gets away from what I thought the brand was about


    Simple no bs bikes..... but hey that's my opinion.... but just go check out what transitions are selling for 2nd hand and that sums the brand up sorry to say

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by reydin View Post
    I've been on my XO Scout for about 3 weeks and yeah it's heavy, somewhere north of 30 lbs but it's one of the best climbers in my quiver and my favorite bike overall. Seriously, I don't notice the weight anymore and trust me, you gotta do plenty of climbing to get to the good stuff around here (Santa Cruz and Aptos).
    This brings up a good point.. you do tend to get used to riding a heavier bike and stop noticing the weight after a while I suppose.

  40. #40
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    If you weigh your bike on a scale, and / or check the frame weight online, you will feel every additional pound while riding it.

    On the plus side, when you get dropped, you will know it's not you - it's the bike.

  41. #41
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    Proprietary? Have you read this https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Tr...-Compares,1925 and I built my 2018 Scout up from a frame and fork (Fox 36 sourced through Transition) but everything else I took off my Commencal Meta 4 so I'm not sure where your getting your "soo proprietary" from and after a quick scan of eBay and Pinkbike, used 2017 Patrol and Scout carbons are going for around 5k or more, that's about the same as similar 2017 bikes from Santa Cruz or Specialized and that's dam good for a used bike that's also the previous generation so there's that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reydin View Post
    Proprietary? Have you read this https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Tr...-Compares,1925 and I built my 2018 Scout up from a frame and fork (Fox 36 sourced through Transition) but everything else I took off my Commencal Meta 4 so I'm not sure where your getting your "soo proprietary" from and after a quick scan of eBay and Pinkbike, used 2017 Patrol and Scout carbons are going for around 5k or more, that's about the same as similar 2017 bikes from Santa Cruz or Specialized and that's dam good for a used bike that's also the previous generation so there's that.
    Why didn’t you just use the fork from your Commencal?


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  43. #43
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    Two reasons, 1, Why buy the new frame with SBG geometry and not get the matching fork especially since you can get one with the frame set at a reasonable price and 2, I like the 36 better for what I do.
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    So having a special fork crown isn't proprietary..... who is gonna want to buy these special forks on these 10 pound beasts if no one adopts this concept? Because as of right now you basically have 2 items that are useless without eachother

    my point is people in the used market are looking for universal not proprietary.... they basically added another standard to the industry

    Ever hear the phrase just because you can doesn't mean you should? That's basically what this concept to me at this point untill they get more manufacturers onboard..... untill then it's a concept that may "feel" better but without any real advantages .....

    So enjoy the 10 pound proprietary frames but to me this product doesn't get me excited

  45. #45
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    There's nothing proprietary about these frames, and they ride just fine with a normal offset fork.

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    Im on the lookout for one of those low offset forks to try on a Pole so to say they have no value outside of transition is not accurate.

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    You can run a short offset fork on a wide variety of existing frames with no issues, and there are likely benefits to doing so. This isn't a new concept - Chris Porter from mojo has been doing this for years.

    Pushing the limits of fork offset: an experiment - BikeRadar USA

    My guess is folks are going to be hitting up transition for short offset forks to put on various non transition bikes.

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    take a hike on over to the forums with the bikes that do get you excited. lots to choose from. share your stoke there.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njhardrock View Post
    So having a special fork crown isn't proprietary..... who is gonna want to buy these special forks on these 10 pound beasts if no one adopts this concept? Because as of right now you basically have 2 items that are useless without eachother

    my point is people in the used market are looking for universal not proprietary.... they basically added another standard to the industry

    Ever hear the phrase just because you can doesn't mean you should? That's basically what this concept to me at this point untill they get more manufacturers onboard..... untill then it's a concept that may "feel" better but without any real advantages .....

    So enjoy the 10 pound proprietary frames but to me this product doesn't get me excited
    Well as you can tell from the other responses to the post I'm quoting that your point has no point because as others have said, the frame works just fine without the short offset fork and there is a market for the forks in the aftermarket, as a matter of fact the Fox engineers I sometimes ride with all have there bikes set up with short offset forks and anglesets to approximate SBG and there are other manufactures looking at doing something similar, as a matter of fact Orbea already is on the new Rallon.
    As for enjoying my "10 pound proprietary frame" I do, in fact it's my favorite bike, cheers.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njhardrock View Post
    So having a special fork crown isn't proprietary..... who is gonna want to buy these special forks on these 10 pound beasts if no one adopts this concept? Because as of right now you basically have 2 items that are useless without eachother

    my point is people in the used market are looking for universal not proprietary.... they basically added another standard to the industry

    Ever hear the phrase just because you can doesn't mean you should? That's basically what this concept to me at this point untill they get more manufacturers onboard..... untill then it's a concept that may "feel" better but without any real advantages .....

    So enjoy the 10 pound proprietary frames but to me this product doesn't get me excited
    I always enjoy reading posts from people who think that because they don't see value in something or don't like something, it's bad and will fail and make global statements of fact based on their sample size of one.

    They provide a good chuckle.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    The problem with over-building a bike like the Scout is it takes away from the attributes that differentiate it within the lineup... playfulness, liveliness, agility, climbability.

    Adding 2 pounds to the frame because some folks might ride the Scout in situations suited to the Patrol is strange. This on top of the fact that the previous generation was already overbuilt for it's travel IMO.

    If the chainstays were breaking, fine, beef up/re-engineer the chainstays but the fact that they added weight all over definitely speaks to the idea that it was more about making the carbon bikes that much more appealing when they end up weighing 3-4 pounds less.
    I own a 2018 Scout and you couldn't be more wrong, it's as "fun" as my 5010 ever was and as capable as my 1st gen Bronson or my Hightower, which is now for sale.
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  52. #52
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    I run a 44 offset fork on my 29er and it weighs 26.5lb with a DH build in XXL. Swapped out the stock 51 offset CSU for a 44 and really like the change. Bikes are lighter than they have ever been. If you focus on how capable a 135mm 29er is vs a 160mm 26 from 10 years ago you will see that it's 3-4lb lighter and more capable in every way. And I meen everything.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reydin View Post
    I own a 2018 Scout and you couldn't be more wrong, it's as "fun" as my 5010 ever was and as capable as my 1st gen Bronson or my Hightower, which is now for sale.
    Good to hear it's kicking ass for you.

    I didn't say it wouldn't be fun, all I said was that adding 2 pounds would take away from it's playfulness, liveliness, agility and climbability. Of course there is no way to prove this but those are attributes that one might think would improve with a lighter bike.

    I totally get that the added material should contribute to a more solid feeling bike. Who knows, maybe heavy as **** will become the new normal for aluminum trail bikes.

    I'm definitely still looking forward to some pro reviews of the Scout and Patrol. Hell, I might have already ordered a frame if I didn't have to drop another 900.00 on the special fork (yes I know you don't HAVE to but lets be real, not a lot of point without SBG). That 3 grand could also buy me a nice carbon frame that I could use one of my already nice forks on.

  54. #54
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    New CSU from for is 260. Also you can buy a used 27.5/26 fork and swap it out. Then sell the fully functional parts fork for $100 less.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    Funny part is transition has a history of bad ideas .... enjoy your 35 pound trail bikes lol

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    I'm definitely still looking forward to some pro reviews of the Scout and Patrol. Hell, I might have already ordered a frame if I didn't have to drop another 900.00 on the special fork (yes I know you don't HAVE to but lets be real, not a lot of point without SBG). That 3 grand could also buy me a nice carbon frame that I could use one of my already nice forks on.
    Fair enough
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njhardrock View Post
    Funny part is transition has a history of bad ideas .... enjoy your 35 pound trail bikes lol
    I demo'd a large smuggler and weighed it after the ride on a Park Tools scale. 30 pounds 6 oz.

    I also demo'd a 2018 Kona Process 29er. 34 pounds 2 oz.

    Not seeing these bikes as any heavier than the competition.



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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    New CSU from for is 260. Also you can buy a used 27.5/26 fork and swap it out. Then sell the fully functional parts fork for $100 less.
    This is interesting.. the 2018 spare parts catalog has 37mm offset csu's listed for pike but not lyrik though.

    EDIT: Nevermind.. these are only available for 2018+ forks which excludes me anyway.

  59. #59
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    I must have overlooked it before but Transition's published frame weights:

    (Medium with Shock/Axle/Hardware)

    Sentinel: 9.3lb
    Patrol: 9.3lb
    Scout: 9.2lb
    Smuggler: 8.8lb

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    I must have overlooked it before but Transition's published frame weights:

    (Medium with Shock/Axle/Hardware)

    Sentinel: 9.3lb
    Patrol: 9.3lb
    Scout: 9.2lb
    Smuggler: 8.8lb
    Oh man. Those are probably the heaviest in class frames on the planet.
    Some great sets for the trainer:
    https://www.mixcloud.com/djfeelgood/

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    We the people ...

    [QUOTE = Njhardrock; 13449773] Quindi avere una corona forcella speciale non è proprietario ..... chi vorrà comprare queste forchette speciali su queste bestie da 10 libbre se nessuno adotta questo concetto? Perché in poi sono fondamentalmente 2 oggetti che sono inutili senza l'altro il

    mio punto è che le persone nel mercato sono alla ricerca di universali non proprietari .... in pratica hanno aggiunto un altro standard al settore

    Mai sentito la frase solo perché non puoi vuoi dire che dovresti? Questo è fondamentalmente ciò che è stato pensato per me.

    Quindi goditi i fotogrammi proprietari da 10 libbre ma per me questo prodotto non mi eccita [/ QUOTE]

    Ciao, per me nei prossimi mesi vedremo altri costruttori di bici usare le forcelle con offset ridotto, come è successo per la spinta. Stai solo aspettando e lo scopriremo






  62. #62
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    ^ ahahaha, si si......

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    In case we're still concerned about the weight. Large Sentinel with flat pedals 32.8 lbs.

  64. #64
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    The Large Smuggler I tested (top build) was 30.5 pounds. Again not heavy but I guess it could have been lighter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbd View Post
    The Large Smuggler I tested (top build) was 30.5 pounds. Again not heavy but I guess it could have been lighter!
    Thats the same weight as my Carbon Intense tracer 275 and my HD4.

  66. #66
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    I agree. On paper something like a Ripley is in the same class (travel etc.) as a Smuggler and they usually weigh in the 28+ pound range. But I don' t think they are designed with the same kind of thrashing in mind...at all.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njhardrock View Post
    Funny part is transition has a history of bad ideas .... enjoy your 35 pound trail bikes lol
    haha totally

  68. #68
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    The whole industry sells the road bike weight advantage. These are mountain bikes and unless you are worried about you hill climbing times, weight is not as important as you might think. Don't believe me? How about Chris Porter?

    "ST: Jack Reading spent some of 2017 experimenting with lead weights taped to the frame of his Geometron G19. Have you spoken to him much about that, and is it something you’ve tried out yourself?

    CP: Jack put in because I wanted him to! We tested with that years and years ago at Fort William and it was amazing just how much difference it made on the rougher parts of the track. Fatigue was reduced, you could use even harder settings for more speed and stability and it was quite literally loads faster on the stopwatch. Getting other riders and racers to add weight to their bikes has been a challenge over the years so my ‘not quite top tens’ at the Masters Worlds have remained the only ‘leaded’ results. But fair play to Jack, he finally did try it (a year after we started the experiment!) and timed it and stuck with it.

    As Jack’s wheels got heavier (with the addition of ProCore) I wanted him to simply add enough weight to keep the sprung/unsprung mass ratio the same. Heavier wheels simply feed more energy into the chassis."

    This interview, and many of his others are well worth a read.
    » Interview: Chris Porter – On Losing And Then Finding His Mojo?

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    Forgot to say, there is also a nice mention of this years SBG bike in the interview.

    "ST: Transition went all in on shorter fork offsets for their 2018 range. You’ve been testing shorter offsets too; is that a line of inquiry you’re continuing?

    CP: The shorter offset thing came about because of the glaring hole in Fox’s line up for over a year of the 27.5 version of the 36… I made a few versions of 36s with braces cut away for clearance for the bigger wheels and a mudguard (v important in the UK!). They handled extremely well, especially at speed. When we finally got the ‘new’ 36, as good as the damper was, as good as the air spring was, the handling was not quite as composed as the old one especially under braking into turns. I did some back to backs and found the handling of the older one was better. The 37mm offset was pretty much the only major difference. As luck would have it, Fox had actually used a modular approach to the stanchions (as a man who had a warehouse full of almost identical ball bearings, grub screws and springs I can tell you that was unusual) and all of the offset was in the crown, so I simply whacked a 37mm (26 inch) offset crown on my 27.5 lowers and the handling was back.

    That prompted Seb Stott (Bikeradar’s ‘Mr Science’) to do a piece with us on riding three different offsets on the same track on the same fork. We also started to sell our GeoMetrons with the short offset option.

    Lars at Transition contacted [me] after he’d read that article and tested with shorter offsets and longer bikes. He wanted me to help put into words what he was feeling on the trail, to clarify in his own mind why it was better when the industry orthodoxy seems to think it should be worse and also to justify his theory up the food chain at Transition I guess.

    If Lars is reading this, dude! Get sub 63° on that head angle, put a bit more front end in and you’ll love it even more."

  70. #70
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    You heavy-ass-bike apologists may be right, but these things better be seriously good to justify the weight.

    Where are we with that Vital and Pikbike review...? The Sentinel doesn't count as it's a 29er.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmop View Post
    The whole industry sells the road bike weight advantage. These are mountain bikes and unless you are worried about you hill climbing times, weight is not as important as you might think.
    I've ridden bikes with similar geos that were 8lbs different in weight. If I didn't have to actually climb the heavy bike to the top I'd agree it did descend quite nicely. The weight kept it stable and tracking well. The lighter bike was more nimble, but also took a bit more work to stay on a specific line if it was very rough.

    The problem with the heavy bike was that it wore me out more on long rides since I do have to climb for all my descents. So I grabbed the lighter bike for anything that was going to be longer and always liked riding the lighter bike more.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    I must have overlooked it before but Transition's published frame weights:

    (Medium with Shock/Axle/Hardware)

    Sentinel: 9.3lb
    Patrol: 9.3lb
    Scout: 9.2lb
    Smuggler: 8.8lb
    so roughly a pound heavier than last year. It behooves you weight weenies to at least demo it if you are at least the slightest interested in the bikes. I'm climbing my Sentinel on the same Shore climbers faster and more comfortable than my Smuggler. Maybe I'll suffer in Pemby next year, or the Chilcotins?
    So best heavy-ass bikes I've owned in the last 4 years, in order of climbing quickness (or the feeling of quickness), from worst to best:
    #5 Kona Process 153 (with coil)-32lbsish
    #4 Nomad 3-31lbsish
    #3 Process 111, 31lbsish,
    #2 Smuggler (with DVO Topaz), 31.5lbsish
    #1 Sentinel 32.5lbsish.

    I've had lighter carbon bikes in the past, probably climbed road climbs faster, but I was in better shape then, so probably who knows :-)

    The only other bike I was willing to go for is the Wreckoning, but only if it got longer...but they IT would be a tank too. The Instinct BC edition with a low offset fork would be interesting, but again I would like a longer bike without a tall-ass seat tube

  73. #73
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    They are all sold out

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    I came from a 27.5 plus hardtail with 3 inch tires on it, to an 18 scout, bet I don’t notice the weight at all. I’m also 220 dry so less concern for me.


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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukr77 View Post
    They are all sold out
    Impossible. They're too heavy

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  76. #76
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    Here’s my new scout, 2.6s f/r 4 oz of sealant in each, diety blade runners, diety knuckle dusters, reverb 1x, otherwise stock med gx build.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  77. #77
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    Geez... have to wonder, then, just how much lighter the carbon versions are going to be? If it's only a couple of pounds, why pay the premium for a still 30#+ bike?

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    I can’t see them being that much lighter I need to go find what the 17 alloy and carbon weighed


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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad3144 View Post
    I can’t see them being that much lighter I need to go find what the 17 alloy and carbon weighed


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    My bet is that they're going be significantly lighter than the '17s... which Transition claimed was 700g for the medium Patrol.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyOrange View Post
    My bet is that they're going be significantly lighter than the '17s... which Transition claimed was 700g for the medium Patrol.
    They almost have to be, I don’t see the point if they aren’t 2-4lbs lighter


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  81. #81
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    If the carbon bikes end up 3-4 pounds lighter, I’d say that lends credence to the idea that they overbuilt the aluminum bikes.


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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyOrange View Post
    My bet is that they're going be significantly lighter than the '17s... which Transition claimed was 700g for the medium Patrol.
    Shouldn’t be if they are consistent with this new ‘we’re building them stronger and stiffer because people are riding them harder’ ethos.


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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    I'd say you're wrong... there is no carbon to buy so far. Seems like putting a product on the market so people won't buy it while they wait for the carbon versions is a pretty stupid and ineffective marketing strategy.
    If aluminum can be harder, I believe I do not have the idea of trying out carbon

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukr77 View Post
    Has anybody actually weighted a frameset...

    Just did. XL sentinel frame with axle

    2018 Bikes... why so heavy?-img_20171218_202150932.jpg

    2018 Bikes... why so heavy?-img_20171218_202247889.jpg
    16 Process 111DL
    15 Process 134DL
    16 Process 153DL
    16 Honzo DL
    16 Private Jake
    17 Hei Hei DLc

  85. #85
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    She’s a porker


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  86. #86
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    full bottomed gal. imagine how fun she'll be to ride!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    full bottomed gal. imagine how fun she'll be to ride!
    ...downhill!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  88. #88
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    so custom build coming. keep us posted how it comes together. i'm looking at the exact same bike, size and colour. don't worry, we probably don't live anywhere near each other...

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    I'm building the same bike right now. I didn't weigh it. I don't really care. It's not a dog show. Over the years I've found that light bikes with horseshit pedaling geometry take way more energy to climb if you have to use your back to keep yourself pulled forward on the seat, and if your pedal strokes end up going forward instead of down with stupid seat angles. I'm going to bet myself a beer that I don't notice the weight at all if the seat angle is steep enough and if I'm pushing the pedals DOWN and not forward...either way, I get a beer.

  90. #90
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    Based on my demo you're going to owe yourself a beer.

  91. #91
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    Just weighed my Patrol GX build: 15.44kg as it came from the shop!

    Going to set it up tubeless and weigh it up again to see the difference

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNeves View Post
    Just weighed my Patrol GX build: 15.44kg as it came from the shop!

    Going to set it up tubeless and weigh it up again to see the difference
    What size?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by toodles View Post
    What size?
    Size m. With DMR V12's on it

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    2018 Bikes... why so heavy?-img_0775.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by delarosa View Post
    In case we're still concerned about the weight. Large Sentinel with flat pedals 32.8 lbs.
    Here's the build spec on my the large Sentinel I mentioned above... currently running a 200mm dropper from 9.8 but will be swapping out for a 175mm version... the claimed weight is with the 200mm not the 150mm mentioned in the build spec.

  95. #95
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    you'll be buying a new post to replace the 200, or just putting in spacers to reduce the drop? reducers would be so much less expensive!

  96. #96
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    -1000G for carbon

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    you'll be buying a new post to replace the 200, or just putting in spacers to reduce the drop? reducers would be so much less expensive!
    I was hopeful I'd be able to slam the post to the collar they hadn't posted max insertion numbers at the time. So I already have two spacer kits installed down to 176mm. Still a tad high, so the 175 should be spot on as the overall length will be about 36mm shorter. Should be able to get my sweet spot and get the seat further out of the way when lowered.

    Short answer: new seat post... my shop is going to swap me!

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad3144 View Post
    She’s a porker


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    don't bother riding, send it back

    I guess Kona Process won the aluminum Enduro game this time around squeaking in at a lower weight...too bad they spec it with a garbage inline shock...

  99. #99
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    Sentinel CF is online. 1.1 kg lighter than alloy

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowbike View Post
    Sentinel CF is online. 1.1 kg lighter than alloy
    Well the plan worked. If I was buying a Sentinel I'd go CF to save 2.4lbs.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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