Subject came up in a recent thread post. What do you leave out on-site?
In this pic there is apart from the obvious, a black rock stretcher, a white dirt/rock hammock (the poles are aligned opposite to each other), a soft stone bag for one person to move 30kg of pebbles, a carry mat with looped handles for moving 60-70kg of stone or dirt and the black thing is Richter, the Liquifier. He is a steel tube filled with expanding foam and welded/bolted to 3 x 6mm x 250 x 300mm steel plates separated by 2 layers of rubber to reduce vibration. He weighs a lot and it takes some time to become fluent with his ability to turn stone and soil into custard. We use him to contour, compact with extreme prejudice and to hammer proud stones back into the tread. Richter can turn loose stone into embedded armouring scary well. There's snippers there too. The bike is not stashed.
We roll it all in the stretcher/cover with mats and then slide into long grass/under logs, here and there and cover with deadfall and trail schmeg. We move the stash regularly. Carrying this out by hand daily is not possible and the places we work are vehicle-free.
I'll routinely leave a mccloud or pulaski trailside where work needs to be done. Sometimes riders get the hint and spend a bit of time working mid-ride, most times the tools just wait patiently for my return!
If I'm doing an active build, I'll leave tools out at the worksite. If I leave them over the winter, I have a tendency to forget where I left 'em.
More details on Richter the Liquifier!
He's a custom tamping tool made by a building mate. Can't seem to find a full frontal pic but I will. The earth submits to Richter, but you have to be near a gorilla to use him more than a few minutes at a time. He weighs maybe 9kg.
Originally Posted by pinkrobe
I've been told that a stash on the uphill side of the trail is less likely to be found. Trail users' eyes more frequently go to the downhill side looking at the terrain or view. Anyone have similar tips or bad experiences with stuff missing from the stash?
Originally Posted by Ridnparadise
It would be interesting how one of these (Wood & Fiberglass Field Hoes | Prohoe | Rogue Field Hoes) would work for you along with that 6' bar.
It would be interesting to try the Rogue Hoe, but with the amount of small rocks in the soil here I'd be worried about doing damage to myself, both impact and hernia/strain when pulling. I've looked at them lots of times (on-line) and wondered, but I like a good mattock. Not the shitty orange one in the pic. The bar moves bigger stuff and deadfall and because we don't fell anything bigger than a sapling (as few as we can), we do route through rocky shelves and bigger trees with the associated debris.
Richter. Found a couple of pics. I am not his master.
Personally I would prefer he had more weight at the business end and less in the upper handle (for working on exposed stone on berms etc), but there's no denying his power, even when I use him. Imagine the world's strongest man tire flipping event. Lifting Richter more than 20 times requires the same back strength/action they use to lift the big tires. Get him up high, then really pull down hard and rock just crushes into the tread. Also good for accentuating subtle drainage lines on benched trail.
The next 2 pics are of contour drainages with the added issue of subsoil springs, both in the trail base and coming through the upslope excavation. There's lots of them here. Apart from the contour, we embed stones, first with the sledgehammer and then with Richter (named for the feeling through the ground when you use him). In the first 2 pics there are stones embedded up to 20cm. Even when visibly dry, Richter can liquify ground like an earthquake. It turns to a weird gel with a trampoline feeling and hardens over a few days. Sometimes where we think it may be more vulnerable to surface erosion over time we go back once or twice, add more stone into the quicksand and keep it sloppy for a few extra days. It dries really solid and because there is always texture on the surface, it also accumulates silt when water flows, so in the end there may be no visible stone.
The last pic is of a different use for stones that catch silt. Below the stones are more and more stones, getting bigger as they go down. Water drains though it. No compaction. Almost no-one use the far left launch line, but it is grippy and you can land past the little sapling on the top of the berm. Long jump leaning way over and a big impact on landing. Woo Hoo
I used to wrap my tools up in a camouflage tarp on the uphill side of the trail and cover with slash, duff, etc. Never lost anything although I was never quite brave enough to leave my chainsaw on site.
The city bought one of these for our project. Easily holds enough tools for 20+ person crew. It is chained to a large log just off the trail, and covered with a burlap sheet and duff/sticks. Looks difficult to break into and good luck moving it when filled with tools. 72"x24"x27". We have a big homeless/drug use/camping issue in the park so we were worried about things disappearing.
Originally Posted by drew p
On your project how does the box get moved as the trail gets built? Does the landmanger allow mountain bikers to ride out to the last day of construction, so there isn't a lot of wasted time getting out to the construction site to start working on the trail?
Richter in action.
I was just fine tuning some contours and my little brother happened to video me using Richter.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rCDo7reLnNw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by Mr Berms; 07-21-2012 at 04:05 PM.
Dig, Ride, Repeat. Trust in 4130. Single Speed Pride.
Originally Posted by traildoc
We have not moved the box. We were able to place it in the middle of the section of trail that we have been working on and it is at most a 10 minute hike from the trailhead. I can also park a truck about 50 feet away from the box so I can grab a load of tools easily if we are not working near it. The land manager has not been allowing us to ride to the construction area because it goes through part of the park that is closed to bikes until this trail is officially open and the approval process of the new trail was politically contentious and they don't want to open up any potential issues. The other side of the trail is near a maintenance shed and we keep the tools there.
Originally Posted by drew p
I think I know which trail you are working on and you are a better man then I will ever be. At this point I refuse to work stupid, and since I don't have an interest in that trail, I hope your efforts are rewarded at some point in time.
I am curious if you personally will be using that trail when it's completed?
Originally Posted by traildoc
Getting a little off topic here but Ithink you know which trail as well. This has been a challenging project on many fronts, but very rewarding in so many ways. This trail is not the kind of trail I love to ride; I like narrow, exposed, technical, granny gear slogs and this trail is none of those things. Even though this trail is not really the kind of trail I really love to ride, I have truly enjoyed the challenges designing and building it have presented. This will see very heavy year-round two-way use (based on some counts i've done on u-con, I will bet on nice weekends it will easily have 1,000+ trips) and needs to be designed and built in a way that it can handle this use. A lot of effort has gone into trying to ensure as that as the trail evolves (as every trail does), drainage and user conflict minimization measures will continue to work as intended. The trail is also supposed to be very beginner friendly and non-threatening. The trail connects to a major paved bike path and will likely be many people's 1st dirt experience and we hope to make it enjoyable. One of my goals designing this trail was that my 7 year old neighbor would want to ride it. At the same time, I did not want this trail to be boring or unenjoyable for an experienced rider, and I certainly will use it (I happen to be moving somewhere where this trail will be part of my commute to town) and it is quite fun to ride. It is mellow and not challenging or technical but it is fun. Moreover, thousands of other people will use this trail, which totally makes the effort I have put into it worthwhile.
Collectively, our club spent over 350 hours just on the rough layout of this trail, paying attention to many of the concepts discussed in Troy Scott Parker's book and it was time well spent. Much thought has been put into how the trail will ride, but even more was put into what the trail experience would be, no matter the method of transportation and this is what really has made the project enjoyable. The project and specifications for the trail are not always ideal, but by no means do I feel we have been "working stupid" and I encourage you to come check it out next time you are in the area and see for yourself. I really enjoyed riding things you worked on in Sedona, and would love to get your feedback and criticism on this trail.
Originally Posted by drew p
Creating a trail that thousand's will ride on a good weekend would definitely be rewarding. I do look forward to riding it someday, and I am sure I will appreciate even more knowing the passion you put into it.
If you ever get back to Sedona this is a trail () you might enjoy on your next trip. I would love to show it to you, I think it fits the description of the kind of trail you like to ride. It definitely has a granny gear climb (not shown in the video) that will be one of the most unbelievable sections you have ever ridden uphill.
I had nothing to do with the construction, but I am sure a tool or two may have been stashed while building it.
Last edited by traildoc; 07-24-2012 at 12:58 AM.