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  1. #1
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    Should User Built Trail Builders Get Recognized for All Their Good Work????

    So my question is should user built trail builders be like other great athletes and get recognized for all their great trail building projects? We have the Super Bowl coming up this weekend and even it was being discussed on the Charlie Rose program today.

    So you have all these high paid athletes getting all this hype about how great they are. Why can't the mountain bike community get behind all the great mountain bike trail builders once their great masterpieces are adopted by the land manager?

    When ra gets his new Flagstaff DH trail put in I would like to contribute $100 towards a celebration barbecue.

    STD

    .
    Last edited by traildoc; 01-29-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    Should you proofread before you post? Also instead of TD could you use STD?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Should User Built Trail Builders Get Recognized for All Their Good Work????

    Wow. Kinda dussapointed this thread doesn't have 42719482849234578921 posts/replies by now! Peeps must be out pedaling! Yeah! Just got done with a nice little ride myself!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Should you proofread before you post? Also instead of TD could you use STD?
    super traildoc? sounds like a new nintendo game

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    Quote Originally Posted by CridgeMTBT View Post
    Wow. Kinda dussapointed this thread doesn't have 42719482849234578921 posts/replies by now! Peeps must be out pedaling! Yeah! Just got done with a nice little ride myself!
    I enjoyed being home all day ... Thought about building a bike stand, checked out skid map a bit, but that was about the extent of my biking.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    So my question is should user built trail builders be like other great athletes and get recognized for all their great trail building projects? We have the Super Bowl coming up this weekend and even it was being discussed on the Charlie Rose program today.
    .
    Could someone clarify what "user built trail builder" are? Is TD now claiming to be GOD and creating TD clones?

  8. #8
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    Should User Built Trail Builders Get Recognized for All Their Good Work????

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Could someone clarify what "user built trail builder" are? Is TD now claiming to be GOD and creating TD clones?
    Um, Someone that builds a bike trail...

    Although this thread is absurd- trail building is HARD work -

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CridgeMTBT View Post
    Um, Someone that builds a bike trail...

    Although this thread is absurd- trail building is HARD work -
    No that would be a user built trail! I am wondering what a user built trail builder is?

  10. #10
    Meatbomb
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    Resist the urge to ask questions.

  11. #11
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    It's Person X not Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Could someone clarify what "user built trail builder" are? Is TD now claiming to be GOD and creating TD clones?
    64:

    You amaze me at times. You criticize me for continually posting the same old thing about who built the majority of the user built trails in Sedona and now you claim it's me.

    Remember I am the guy who did the terrible trail enhancement on the Tea Cup trail.

    As you know I have been posting about the RTCA meetings going on about the Coconino National Forests New Trail Plan. So far we have had four two hour meetings over a four month period, and we are still laying the foundation to be able to talk about what additional trails we might need or might adopt out of the current user built inventory.

    As you know I have been sharing the inventory of mountianbiking/hiking trails with the MTBR members for over eight years. During that time I have gotten numerous hate mails for sharing those trails with the masses. The majority of the hate mails have come from elitist types who either don't want the landmanager to know about the trail or they want to keep the trail secret for themselves and their buddies.
    Well like Moab did five years ago, now in Sedona we have the FS claiming that they knew nothing about the 154 trails that the mountain biking/hiking community has to recreated on. Even though they have been given maps over the last couple of years by the mountain biking/hiking community of the well-traveled 154 mountain/biking trails they are claiming amnesia or something similar.

    As you know I have been discussing riding Sedona loops consisting of ten or fifteen trails for years. In the prior yearís many of those trails were referred to as non-system trails and recently the FS has decided to call them user built trails which is code for mountain biker built trails for the use of mountain bikers and their friends the hikers who don't criticize them for having built them.
    For the most part the majority of user built trails are built in a very IMBA type fashion, but some of them were built in a maintainable, but not sustainable fashion which the FS was willing to accept and adopt with significant funding of taxpayer dollars to bring them into compliance under the FS handbook of trail building practices.


    My understanding is the group of mountain bikers who have helped the FS with these maintainable but not sustainable projects, are also showing the FS new potential trail alignments to also build new maintainable type trails in the future, to help replace inventory of user built trails that it has been said will be decommissioned in the future.


    Anyway the mountain bike community over the last fifteen years since the last inventory of mountain biking/hiking trails was taken in the 1998 Coconino National Forest Trail Plain went from maybe 40 (maybe less) mountain biking/hiking trails to a current inventory of 154 (per my Excel spreedsheet) and that isn't including the 3%'er type trails like White Line and Sick Boy, etc., etc., etc.


    Person X use to tell me that the mountain biking/hiking trails needed to be kept SECRET. I told him there will be a day when having told the FS for years that there is a comprehensive well-built mountain bike/hiker trail system will be a blessing because then they can't claim the mountain bikers have been hiding those great trails with them. For years the mountain biking/hiking community has been showing the FS there is a growing demand for more well-built trails to recreate on.


    And as a consequence the FS has adopted a ton of those same great mountain biking/hiking user built trails over the recent years. I am in the process of expanding my mountain biking/hiking trail list to show which of those trails were adopted by the FS so we have a better understanding of how the adoption process has progressed since the last FS inventory in 1998 to this point in time, but I havenít gotten together with the local historians to complete that process yet, but I hope to in the near future.

    Anymore questions?

    TD

  12. #12
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    Current List of Mountain Biking/Hiking Trails Used by Mountain Bikers and Hikers

    Adobe Jack
    Aerie
    Airport Connector
    Airport Loop
    Anaconda
    Anaconda Bypass
    Andante
    Ant Hill
    AZ Cypress
    AZ Cypress Alternate
    Baby Bell
    Baby Bell Option
    Bail
    Baldwin
    Bandit
    Basalt
    Bell
    Big Park Loop
    Bike Path
    Brew Pub
    Bogus
    Brew Pub
    Brewer
    Broken Arrow
    Cake Walk
    Canyon of Fools
    Carroll Canyon
    Casner
    Cathedral
    Cat Walk
    Cedar Ridge
    Cenntennial
    Chapel
    Checkpoint Charlie
    Christmas Wash
    Chuck Wagon
    Cockscomb
    Coconino
    Color Cove
    Cow Pies
    Coyote
    Crusifixion
    Crusty
    Damifido
    Damifino
    Dawa
    Deadmans Pass
    Double D
    Draino
    Earl's cabin
    Easy Brezzy
    Easy Rider
    Girdner
    Grand Central
    Grasshopper (Allens Bend)
    Gunslinger
    HT
    Hangover
    Harm's Way
    Herkenham
    Hermit
    High on the Hog
    Highline
    Hog Tail
    Hogalicious
    Homee
    Hot Loop
    Huckaby
    Javelina
    Jim Thompson
    Jordan
    Jump
    Kaibab
    Killer Bee
    Last Frontier
    Lavitra
    Ledge'n'Airy
    Lime Kiln
    Little Horse
    Lama
    Long Canyon
    Lost and Found
    Lower Chimney Rock
    Lower Lizardhead
    Made in the Shade
    Margaritaville
    Mescal
    Mescal Connector West
    Mescal Connector East
    Middle Finger
    Middle Tea Cup
    Midgely Bridge
    Moose Fingers
    Munds Wagon Wheel
    Mystic
    Mystic South
    New Years Wash
    No Name
    OK
    OK Alternate
    Old Post
    Old Ridge
    Phone
    Pig Tail
    Plumber's Crack
    Power Station
    Power Station Plundge
    Pyramid
    Ramshead
    Red Aguave Connector
    Red Rock Crossing
    Red Rock Loop
    Ridge
    Rupp
    S
    Scheurman
    Second Coming
    Secret Slickrock
    Shorty
    Sketch
    Slim Shady
    Snake
    Soldier Pass
    Soldier Pass Jeep Rd.
    Special Ed
    Stay High
    Steamboat Bypass
    Submarine Rock
    Sugar Loaf West
    Sugar Loaf Loop
    Sugar Loaf Short Cut
    Sunset
    Table Top
    Tea Cup
    Templeton
    Tequila Sunrise
    Thunder Mt.
    Tim's Wash
    Tomahawk
    Transcept
    Transcept
    Turkey Creek
    Two Fences
    Under the Radar
    Under Under the Radar
    Under Under Under the Radar
    Unknown Bandit
    Upper Ramshead
    Upper Tea Cup
    Viewpoint
    VOC Loop
    Western Civilization
    Wilson Canyon
    Windsurfer
    Witch Doctor
    Yavapai Vista

  13. #13
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    I did not criticize you. Just trying to find out what a user built trail builder is?

    After the first sentence, I ignored the rest of you post. If you explained what a "user built Trail Builder" was my apologies!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Resist the urge to ask questions.
    Come on Man, I'm just trying to understand.

  15. #15
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    user-built trail could imply that it was a trail built by a particular user built in cooperation with the land manager. But in Sedona it more often than not implies an illegally built trail. That is, with no NEPA compliance, arch, or hydrology studies. The reasons why there are so many user-built trails in Sedona is a topic for another discussion.

  16. #16
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    I fully understand what user built trails are, I'm trying to find out what a user built trail builder is! Does said user build a trail builder?

  17. #17
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    Assuming that the thread title is nothing more than a grammatical error,

    Should User Built Trail Builders Get Recognized for All Their Good Work????

    And considering my understanding, and including the (IMO) very accurate definition provided by Rockman ... YES, they should be recognized !!!

    They should be recognized in a court of law, fined heavily, and locked up/restricted from entry to specific areas IF they created without the approval of those entrusted to maintian the eco-system of our public lands.

    This should be done to ensure that the rest of the population continues to have locations they can enjoy.

    If they built a trail on private property, and want recognition ... Advertise.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Assuming that the thread title is nothing more than a grammatical error,

    Should User Built Trail Builders Get Recognized for All Their Good Work????

    And considering my understanding, and including the (IMO) very accurate definition provided by Rockman ... YES, they should be recognized !!!

    They should be recognized in a court of law, fined heavily, and locked up/restricted from entry to specific areas IF they created without the approval of those entrusted to maintian the eco-system of our public lands.

    This should be done to ensure that the rest of the population continues to have locations they can enjoy.

    If they built a trail on private property, and want recognition ... Advertise.
    It should be "Should Trail Builders Who Build Trails That Are Used By Users Be Recognized for All There Good Work??????"

    (I intentionally included the misspelling, as TD's post need at least one misspelling in them.)
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    It should be "Should Trail Builders Who Build Trails That Are Used By Users Be Recognized for All There Good Work??????"

    (I intentionally included the misspelling, as TD's post need at least one misspelling in them.)
    I had a pretty good idea what it should be ... And my position stands as it relates to illegal trail building.

    If the OP wanted anything of value, they should have started a poll, and stated the purpose was to lobby authorities for recognition.
    ETA:
    And the OP should have put that poll in the General Discussion section for maximum exposure.


    Myself,
    If I do what I consider to be a good deed, I could care less about recognition.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Assuming that the thread title is nothing more than a grammatical error,

    Should User Built Trail Builders Get Recognized for All Their Good Work????

    And considering my understanding, and including the (IMO) very accurate definition provided by Rockman ... YES, they should be recognized !!!

    They should be recognized in a court of law, fined heavily, and locked up/restricted from entry to specific areas IF they created without the approval of those entrusted to maintian the eco-system of our public lands.

    This should be done to ensure that the rest of the population continues to have locations they can enjoy.

    If they built a trail on private property, and want recognition ... Advertise.
    bab:

    Should Person X and his accomplice be locked up or should they be given a medal for all the trails they got adopted? We have a pretty effective team in Sedona and those people should be recognized for all their good work.

    That being said don't you think it's time to give them amnesty so we can move the ball forward?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    bab:

    Should Person X and his accomplice be locked up or should they be given a medal for all the trails they got adopted? We have a pretty effective team in Sedona and those people should be recognized for all their good work.

    That being said don't you think it's time to give them amnesty so we can move the ball forward?
    How many times are you going to repeat the same freaking question?

    How is this for you, next out house Sedrama needs. We will place effort into getting the doors to read TrailDoc Approved and TrailDoll approved.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    How many times are you going to repeat the same freaking question?

    How is this for you, next out house Sedrama needs. We will place effort into getting the doors to read TrailDoc Approved and TrailDoll approved.
    Common 64 bab wants to send the trail builders to jail for building all the great trails in Sedona, IMHO I don't believe that is necessary at this point in time. Are you OK with that? Sometimes I don't think you are getting it, but hopefully you get it now.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Common 64 bab wants to send the trail builders to jail for building all the great trails in Sedona, IMHO I don't believe that is necessary at this point in time. Are you OK with that? Sometimes I don't think you are getting it, but hopefully you get it now.
    If I were a land owner and you built anything on my property without permission. Heck Yes toss their sorry a$$ in jail as well as fines to repair my property? I know you agree with this otherwise you would have let those renters continue to use that property in any fashion they felt suited their needs.

    Yes, I have got this one covered.

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    Arguing with non-rehabilitated law breakers is kind of dumb.

    If they continue to desecrate/damage public land (no permission) ... Lock them up for an extended period of time.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Arguing with non-rehabilitated law breakers is kind of dumb.

    If they continue to desecrate/damage public land (no permission) ... Lock them up for an extended period of time.
    No arguing on this side of the fence. I just enjoy my friendly chats with TD.

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