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  1. #1
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    Pump Track Possible With Out Regular Water Use?

    I'm trying to get some pump tracks built in Montgomery County Maryland. The problem I keep running into is Park staff constantly says, “Exposed dirt? Oh no we can’t do that because of erosion.” Has anyone used Poly Pavement on a pump track? http://www.polypavement.com/ This looks like the best solution. They have been trying to get a BMX track in the County for 20 years and the erosion and “eye sore” issue has always stopped the process. I have a meeting with Park staff on 12/10.

    Thanks!

    (Perfect example of trying to get bicycle amenites in Montgomery County!)

  2. #2
    Barfed
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    Packed dirt doesn't move much, this coming from a long time dirt jumper and someone with an environmental degree. Once you get a pump track packed in it isn't going any where. Regular repair is necessary. Erosion on the side of the rollers and berms can be slowed with grass seed.

    Sounds to me like someone is making excuses. You are asking to use some of the counties land and you should point out that there will be an impact, the trick is making them feel that use is a good one. I would bring in some pics of nicer pump tracks with lawns or mulch in the middle. Also IMBA has some great literature on sustainable trail design, a lot of that stuff will carry over.

    Good luck

  3. #3
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    Firstly i gotta say you're dealing with land manager who has a stick up their butt. That's my thought, that i really wasn't going to post about. But what got me to post is the link you provided. Polypavement WOW i wish we had known about this stuff BEFORE we made Colonnade.
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  4. #4
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    I know next to nothing about that product, but i've seen some REALLY FREAKIN AWESOME results with people using cement pavers (i.e. fancy interlocking bricks) to armor their pump tracks. i imagine if you paver-ed the tread surface, and put whatever kind of natural ground cover is around (grass, flowers, etc) right up to the pavers, then it would blend right in and last for about 9 eternities and several ice ages. maybe even 9 and a half eternities if you splurge for nice pavers.

    edit: I know some folks in the cement/paver business, and they've dyed bricks, pavers, whole patios just about every color imaginable, so if you called up your local brick place, they could probably custom dye you a whole load to match the natural dirt/rock.

    double edit:
    here is a whole album of pics of some guy's paver-ed backyard track.
    CLICKY HEREZ

    and here is a section of armored pump track that's at colonnade (me thinks?).
    CLICKY HEREZ TOO
    Last edited by CheeseSoda; 12-03-2008 at 06:27 PM.

  5. #5
    fountainheadproject.org
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiHoEskimo
    "Has anyone used Poly Pavement on a pump track? http://www.polypavement.com/
    Hey Joe - Why don't we get the 5 gallon drum, do a test section out on Phase II and present the results to MoCo????

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the replies. The idea of bricks/stones/pavers along the edge to control run off is a good idea and something I think natural resource staff might go for.

    Trying out some Poly Pavement on some local trails is a great idea. I haven't seen much info about it's use. I did email Blitch as I've seen he has used the product before.

    I'd like to come up with a good design with two pump tracks side by side. One more beginner friend the other bigger with a few 3 foot tall rollers and tables so you can build up enough speed to get some good air time.

    I hit http://www.raysmtb.com/ this past weekend. I was amazed at how fast i could go on the new pump track and even get air.

  7. #7
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    +1 on planting grass. I tossed some rye grass seeds on the sides of all our jumps one year and it looked kick-azz until the summer heat got to it. If possible, I'd have everything landscaped except for the trail bed.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiHoEskimo
    Thanks for the replies. The idea of bricks/stones/pavers along the edge to control run off is a good idea and something I think natural resource staff might go for.

    Trying out some Poly Pavement on some local trails is a great idea. I haven't seen much info about it's use. I did email Blitch as I've seen he has used the product before.

    I'd like to come up with a good design with two pump tracks side by side. One more beginner friend the other bigger with a few 3 foot tall rollers and tables so you can build up enough speed to get some good air time.

    I hit http://www.raysmtb.com/ this past weekend. I was amazed at how fast i could go on the new pump track and even get air.
    As far as run off, when you grade a pump track that's open you grade it with a subtle slope so you're not going to have water sheeting off. It's much like a regular trail build in that way.

    Here's the pumptrack at Colonnade, we actually have a drainage set up. But if you make a pump track more in the form of a trail you can use somewhat typical trail techniques to drain the water where you want.



    And yah that one picture is of Colonnade, they are Sandstone Pavers. Awesome for traction, donated by the City of Seattle (save a delivery fee), they are old city road tread. We used them mostly for sections with steep grades.

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/...ab32cd.jpg?v=0

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/...28e5d3.jpg?v=0
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  9. #9
    I need skills
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    no erosion

    My pump track is shaded and doesn't tend to dry out. It is rock solid. Since building it 17 months ago I've only had to clear it of leaves in the Fall.

    Mine is packed dirt. this photo is "compacted base rock fines." Also see link for more details.




    link: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/pump-tr...inability.html

    Those photos look great, but I can see a bit of erosion in the berms. Dirt worked great for me. A water source nearby would be perfect if out in the full sun or that product mentioned above.

  10. #10
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    OK pump track fans....check this out for the new Ben Blitch designed pump track at Santos in Ocala, Florida! Sweeeeet!! also note the pix of the plate compactor for those of you who were discussing them in another thread.

    http://omba.org/workdays/dec08/slideshow.html
    IF YOU CAN READ THIS, YOU'RE NOT RIDING (or building)!

  11. #11
    Who turned out the lights
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    Erosion concerns can be stemmed by the way you grade and/or plant along the track/jumps. You can create sumps on the downstream side that are purposely designed to catch and slow the water so that the sediment has time to settle out and then flow out of the side. You can also plant tall native grasses along the sides and in between berms/runs to capture and infiltrate the water. Just remember that the object is to slow the water down so that the sediment settles out before the water moves on to the next place. You don't want to create ponds that never drain (mosquite beds), so you can create 'french' drains where the water basically percolates through a gravel bed or conduit on its way off of your track.

    On our 'downhillish' trail in KC (we only have +/-200' of elevation drop), we pack gravel into the bottom of our berms and use a wrapped HDPE pipe to take water out of the bottom of berms that have to be placed on the downhill side of a turn. You won't be riding down in the bottom (hence the need for a berm), but the water can infiltrate down and out through the pipe so you aren't left with mud pits in the bottoms of the berms. You can use similar techniques to drain areas of your pump track along with creative grading and plantings to minimize any erosion.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyslikedirt
    Packed dirt doesn't move much, this coming from a long time dirt jumper and someone with an environmental degree. Once you get a pump track packed in it isn't going any where.
    Say what.... we have a dirt jump park, designed and professioally built locally by Glenn Jacobs, after two tropical wet seasons it's a wasteland of erosion, hell, the rain washes beaches, roads, concrete paths etc away so a little packed dirt at a jump park is easily destroyed.
    Last edited by Trevor_S; 12-10-2008 at 06:45 AM.

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