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  1. #1
    Bike more, sleep less
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    Wheel building and truing

    I downloaded Gerd Schraners - the art of wheelbuilding, but find it to be lacking. Any recommendations for other wheelbuilding books?

    I've read through the thread linked below, and theres lots of good links in there. I'm just wondering if anyone else has book recommendations. I don't like reading off of computers, I'd prefer to buy a book.

    Wheelbuilding resources



    Also, what do you do in this situation?

    I have a wheel that has a big lateral misalignment issue. At one point in the wheel, the rim scrapes on the left indicator for the length of 6 spokes. I have loosed the spokes going to the left side of the hub, and tightened the right ones to get the rim to pull over, but it hasn't moved at all, and its to the point now where the spokes are so loose on the left side, and so tight on the right side, that its obviously not properly tensioned and it is out of whack.

    Is it sometimes necessary to just loosen of all the spokes and start retensioning as if you're building a new wheel? Or does this seem like a case where the rim is no deformed and needs replacement? This is all new to me, I'm hoping some seasoned wheelbuilders can shed some light on this

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    It sounds like the rim is shot and should be replaced.

  3. #3
    Birdman aka JMJ
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    Zinn and the art of MTB maintenance has a very good basic wheelbuilding section.

    Regarding your rim, when making adjustments to bring a wheel back into true, adjust spoke tension then remove it from the truing stand and stress relieve the spokes, as follows.

    Place the wheel on the floor, rim parallel to the floor (hub on the ground), place your hands at 3 and 9 oclock and press down on the rim. Rotate your hand positions on the rim by 30 and press down again, etc. etc. Flip the wheel over and repeat above process.

    You'll hear and feel the spokes settling.

    Return to the truing stand and repeat the truing process. If stress relieving doesn't help the spokes settle into position, the rim is probably bent beyond repair.

    JMJ

  4. #4
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    How old is this wheel?
    Are the nipples and spokes clean... meaning, corrosion/rust free?
    Just something to keep in mind... sometimes when you think you're turning a nipple on a wheel with "old" nipples/spokes... they are stuck to each other so well, you are actually twisting the spoke.

    You'll know when your spokes loosen, but tightening them is not always so apparent unless you feel the spoke while turning the nipple.
    With a 'frozen' spoke, you will feel it twist in your fingers while you turn the nipple with the other hand and wrench.

    Not sure this is necessarily part of your issue, just something you should be aware of.

    Depending on what this particular wheel means to you, you might do well taking it apart, checking the rim on a large-enough flat surface, then putting it all back together again if it's in good shape.
    Again, age and condition are important here... reusing old spokes and nipples isn't always a good idea.
    Can you afford to take it down to pieces then put it back together and possibly not get it right for a while?
    Can you afford to replace broken spokes and nipples if something happens during disassembly/reassembly?
    Do you have a spare wheel to ride in the meantime?

    Then again... it might be cheaper and quicker to drop it off at your LBS and have them true it up.

    eta: The very first wheel I laced up didn't work out so well. I wasn't sure why. I took it in to a shop I was friendly with and knew the mech's there. When I went back to pick up the wheel, I asked about my initial set-up. The guy who did my wheel was able to take the time to discuss it a little with me... basically telling me I hadn't even tensioned the spokes enough. I was worried about tightening them too much and didn't have a tensiometer.
    I believe that since I had purchased my spokes and nipples from them, had a prior relationship with them, and approached them in the 'right' way (whatever that was ), I wound up with some valuable advice and a wheel I could trust.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    Place the wheel on the floor, rim parallel to the floor (hub on the ground), place your hands at 3 and 9 oclock and press down on the rim. Rotate your hand positions on the rim by 30 and press down again, etc. etc. Flip the wheel over and repeat above process.
    That's putting a lot more stress on the rim than necessary. Just take an old screwdriver and press the handle of it down hard into "v" formed by the spokes crossing and twist it a bit side to side.

  6. #6
    A wheelist
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    I own all wheelbuilding resources that I know of. Roger Musson's downloadable e-book is the best IMO. If you don't like reading it on the computer, print it off and have it spiral-bound at Staples, or some other print place, like I did.

    The worst wheelbuilng resource, again IMO, is Schraner's.
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    I own all wheelbuilding resources that I know of. Roger Musson's downloadable e-book is the best IMO. If you don't like reading it on the computer, print it off and have it spiral-bound at Staples, or some other print place, like I did.

    The worst wheelbuilng resource, again IMO, is Schraner's.
    Roger Musson's book is the best.

  8. #8
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    Roger Musson's book is the best.
    And if Roger comes up with some better info, he updates the download and gives everyone a free copy. Try that with a hardcopy book.
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  9. #9
    Bike more, sleep less
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    Thanks for all the replys.

    Schraners book is so old fashioned, even though it was published in 1999. It reads as if it was from the 70's, just out of touch with the times.

    The wheel is a roval control 29er, It came with a used bike I bought, and the wheel was out of true when I bought it. I kind of feel like just loosening everything off, and retruing it from there.

  10. #10
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    Wouldn't be a bad idea to disassemble the wheel completely. 1, it's good practice and knowledge to have, and 2, it will allow you to properly check the rim and the hub for any damage. You can't tell if a rim is wonky without actually taking it out of the rim, though if you are having the problem you are describing, it is likely that the rim is bent.

  11. #11
    Birdman aka JMJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    That's putting a lot more stress on the rim than necessary.
    Depends on how hard you press. I've seen wheelbuilders who have a table that supports the rim with a large hole in it that clears the spokes. They then come down with an arbor press and push down on the hub to stress relive all the spokes simultaneously (the inverse of the technique I described). Flip the wheel and press again, then back on the truing stand.

    I've built a few wheels using this stress relieving technique and have not had to touch them with a spoke wrench since. These are rim-brake wheels, so I'd know if they'd be out of true.

    Ditto the advice above regarding disassembling, cleaning/lubing, and rebuilding the wheel. Also lets you know if the rim is bent in the "free" state.

    JMJ

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    Depends on how hard you press. I've seen wheelbuilders who have a table that supports the rim with a large hole in it that clears the spokes. They then come down with an arbor press and push down on the hub to stress relive all the spokes simultaneously (the inverse of the technique I described). Flip the wheel and press again, then back on the truing stand.
    Using a table with a hole in it is gentler on the rim since it supports the entire rim, unlike doing with your hands.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Using a table with a hole in it is gentler on the rim since it supports the entire rim, unlike doing with your hands.
    This may be true but I've had very good results using the hand method- though I use my hands and forearms to distribute the load better. I have seen people taco wheels this way, but I would argue that if it's done correctly it works well.

  14. #14
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    I'll plug Bill Mould's DVD

    I know I'm a shill. At least I won't put the link here, you can search for it on amazon.

    I did Bill's wheel building class. His DVD will walk you though the entire build of a three cross wheel.

    As far as stress relieving I use the "hands on rim approach" but I bet the table with hole is easier on the rim. That said if the wheel is built well, it should make no difference.

  15. #15
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    Or you can just stress relieve using a screwdriver handle and not worry about it.
    Last edited by bad mechanic; 12-02-2013 at 08:57 AM.

  16. #16
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    Sounds like a used bike with a bent wheel

    If the rim is bent from an impact, which from the described action already taken then no amount of truing can save it. save bending the rim back straight which is not advisable.

    just replace the rim.

  17. #17
    Ride da mOOn Moderator
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    I have straightened Moto/MTB rims using the press and jig taking out the misaligned spot, but only on rims that were vintage restorations and I could not be find a replacement! It is a regular press with a wide throat, but very time consuming and not worth it if a replacement is avaliable.

  18. #18
    Bike more, sleep less
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    Thanks for the replys, I read them all

    The wheel is 2 years old, its a roval control 29er.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
    Place the wheel on the floor, rim parallel to the floor (hub on the ground), place your hands at 3 and 9 oclock and press down on the rim. Rotate your hand positions on the rim by 30 and press down again, etc. etc. Flip the wheel over and repeat above process.

    You'll hear and feel the spokes settling.

    Return to the truing stand and repeat the truing process. If stress relieving doesn't help the spokes settle into position, the rim is probably bent beyond repair.

    JMJ
    This is exactly how I was taught, and have never had a problem! Helps to let the spokes unwind after truing. I have also taken Bills class!

    Your not going to be able to put any more load on the rim than it would experience while riding. If you push the rim and it folds, then it wasnt going to work anyway!

  20. #20
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    Another vote for Roger Musson. Quality project he has with his ebook.

  21. #21
    Waiting for peace
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    I would bet that the 2.0/1.5mm spokes that you are trying to re-true are stretching... I just did one yesterday and had to replace four extra spokes...

  22. #22
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    another vote for the Roger Musson book. I used Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information for my first wheelbuild. I later bought Schraner's book. Eventually paid for Roger Musson's pdf and his is by far the best. His lacing method is super easy compared to Sheldon's and Gerd's, IMO. He says you don't need a tension meter and can go by sound. I however like having and using one.

  23. #23
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    I own all wheelbuilding resources that I know of. Roger Musson's downloadable e-book is the best IMO. If you don't like reading it on the computer, print it off and have it spiral-bound at Staples, or some other print place, like I did.

    The worst wheelbuilng resource, again IMO, is Schraner's.
    My best wheelbuilding resource is Roger Musson's(The Professional Guide to Wheel Building)

    You can purchase the book on line and then download it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    And if Roger comes up with some better info, he updates the download and gives everyone a free copy. Try that with a hardcopy book.
    What mainly gets updated? I considered buying his book (current, 6th edition), but found an older version online in pdf form for free (3rd edition).
    Mountain bikers who don't road ride have no legs...
    Road riders who don't mountain bike have no soul...

  25. #25
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Wheel building and truing

    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    What mainly gets updated? I considered buying his book (current, 6th edition), but found an older version online in pdf form for free (3rd edition).
    I purchased 5.01 of the book and recently downloaded 6.02. There are ~6 additional pages.

    It is an excellent book and worth every bit of what he charges... buy it.
    【ツ】eDub 【ツ】

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