Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 71

Thread: XCL v. MotoLite

  1. #1
    ಠ_ಠ
    Reputation: dulyebr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,192

    XCL v. MotoLite

    The Chumba XCL has more external gusseting, so it looks tougher, but from the little I've gathered, it seems to be roughly the same weight as the ML once you consider the extra weight of the low-volume DHX-Air that is spec'd on the XCL. So I'm thinking maybe Titus has just internally gusseted the Moto? Also, it looks to me like where the Motolite has overbuilt chainstays, the XCL has beef in its seatstays; albeit sans seatstay-bridge.

    Perhaps you bike experts can comment on what's more important to frame stiffness, seatstays or chainstays?

  2. #2
    the 36 year old grom
    Reputation: demo_slug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    The Chumba XCL has more external gusseting, so it looks tougher, but from the little I've gathered, it seems to be roughly the same weight as the ML once you consider the extra weight of the low-volume DHX-Air that is spec'd on the XCL. So I'm thinking maybe Titus has just internally gusseted the Moto? Also, it looks to me like where the Motolite has overbuilt chainstays, the XCL has beef in its seatstays; albeit sans seatstay-bridge.

    Perhaps you bike experts can comment on what's more important to frame stiffness, seatstays or chainstays?
    are you thinking of gettting an XCL?

  3. #3
    FM
    FM is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,286
    One thing I noticed about the chumba's is the do not use "clevis" style drop-out pivots like titus and Turner use...(pivots that sandwich the bearing surface on both sides). The clevis pivots seem like a really good idea- increasing stiffness and decreasing side-loads on the pivot bearings and hardware...

    The chumbas do look like super nice bikes though!

  4. #4
    thats right living legend
    Reputation: blackagness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,377
    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    One thing I noticed about the chumba's is the do not use "clevis" style drop-out pivots like titus and Turner use...(pivots that sandwich the bearing surface on both sides). The clevis pivots seem like a really good idea- increasing stiffness and decreasing side-loads on the pivot bearings and hardware...

    The chumbas do look like super nice bikes though!

    This is true, and a god point IMO.

    I Love the way the XCL looks, and the"idea" of the bike, but I'd still go ML if I were choosing today. It's pretty darn close though. Funny how we had the shootout Cranx posted up. Than they up the travel to 5", and add a seat tube gusset along with shaving some wieght. Hmmm? Seems like the Lite-Moto didn't need to make any changes to be more like.... well.

    Nuff said IMO.

  5. #5
    the 36 year old grom
    Reputation: demo_slug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,726
    take a look at this one....
    2007 CHUMBA XCL Brings in the Rave Reviews!

    looking at this post... seams like a no brainer. the chumba is cheap $1400. its a four bar. it has a DHXA. which is a real good deal at that price. the DHXA is $$expensive$$. would like to ride one to see if I like the geo. but I doubt it.

    anyway... they'll sell a bunch.


    .................................................. .......
    this was a real subtle post... in that thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ginsu2k
    Except maybe a horst link held in double shear instead of single shear! And the upper rocker arm could be triangulated to provide superior lateral rigidity.
    the clevis gives you double shear and the MLs rocker is triangulated. even if the machine work on the rocker is so good that cranxOC thought it was plastic, thus cheap.

  6. #6
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Same weight? My large XCL is about 7.5 pounds. Is that what a motolite weighs?

    Plus, I can throw a 6 inch fork on there without voiding the warranty. And no carbon on the XCL.

    Oh yeah, if you want, you can have it "made in America" for less than what the motolite costs.

    Not saying that either bike is better, but the fork and carbon issues are what drove me to buy the Chumba over the Titus. Also helped I saved a load of dough.

    cheers
    Extreme stationary biker.

  7. #7
    ಠ_ಠ
    Reputation: dulyebr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,192
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Same weight? My large XCL is about 7.5 pounds. Is that what a motolite weighs?

    Plus, I can throw a 6 inch fork on there without voiding the warranty. And no carbon on the XCL.

    Oh yeah, if you want, you can have it "made in America" for less than what the motolite costs.

    Not saying that either bike is better, but the fork and carbon issues are what drove me to buy the Chumba over the Titus. Also helped I saved a load of dough.

    cheers
    With a DHX-Air, a medium MotoLite would weigh about 6.8lbs.

    Man that is a hot looking ride. With the Pike and DHX-Air it looks similar to my MotoLite -- but it's stock...

  8. #8
    thats right living legend
    Reputation: blackagness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,377
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Same weight? My large XCL is about 7.5 pounds. Is that what a motolite weighs?

    Plus, I can throw a 6 inch fork on there without voiding the warranty. And no carbon on the XCL.

    Oh yeah, if you want, you can have it "made in America" for less than what the motolite costs.

    Not saying that either bike is better, but the fork and carbon issues are what drove me to buy the Chumba over the Titus. Also helped I saved a load of dough.

    cheers

    Yeah that's a big bonus for many of us..... All of it.

  9. #9
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Both are smoking bikes.

    As if the seatstay is more important than the chainstays or vice versa, I don't really know. Maybe GizmoII should have a better insight, since he's designed a stiff bike or two

    I would think the stiffness of articulations is more important for pure stiffness. However, more meat at the connecting members will not only help with stiffness, but also helps with longevity.

    Looking closely, they take different approaches to make a stiff bike.

    Chumba uses gusseting, Titus hydroforms and butts the tubes.
    Chumba uses more burly rear end, Titus has stiffer connections and reinforces the rocker link laterally (there's a connecting rod between both plates) for stiffness.

    Both are good, valid approaches. I think it would come down to ride characteristics to choose between the two of them. The Chumba seems more directed to aggressive riders, while the ML is a bit more versatile, covering the XC to "light-AM" side of the spectrum.

    Geo mentions the ability to run a 160 fork and being manufactured in USA... To some folks it may mean little as they wouldn't run such a big fork or live in a foreign country where made in the US means little.

    Personally, and I agree with Geo here; I'd take less carbon, a heftier weight and save some bucks.

    I'd be all over an Original ML would Titus re-issue it as a frame only. There's of market now uncovered... The 1100-1400 5" trailbike... At least I can count two competitors off the top of my head, the XCL and the Transition Covert.
    Check my Site

  10. #10
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Also, for another 250, you can add custom geometry (I'm not 100% positive on this, but I remember reading it somewhere).

    That's a custom built, american made frame for less than 2 grand. Hell of a deal.

    Here hope for the Titus lovers out there (count me as one) that this (XCL) lights a fire under the Titus engineers butts. BTW, I can't wait till the Ti Guapo comes out...
    Extreme stationary biker.

  11. #11
    thats right living legend
    Reputation: blackagness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,377

    What Did I Miss?

    It was my understanding that the XCL is made in asia this year, and for an upcharge you can have it made in the USA.

  12. #12
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    It was my understanding that the XCL is made in asia this year, and for an upcharge you can have it made in the USA.
    1399 for made in asia
    1699 for made in US (by an asian...just kidding)

    And 250 for custom geo on US made frames...like I said, I could be wrong on that one. You'd have to call Alan at Chumba and ask him about it. Nice fellow.

    edit: complete build for 2800. Pretty nice specs too:

    Component Specification
    Frame Shock Fox DHX 5.0 Air
    Fork RockShox Pike 454 U-Turn Coil, 20mm axle
    Headset FSA Orbit X, 1 1/8"
    Handlebar Truvativ TEAM OS 50mm rise 710mm width
    Stem Truvativ TEAM 3D OS 100mm
    Grips Lock-on with CHUMBA logo
    Front Brake Avid Juicy 5 185mm
    Rear Brake Avid Juicy 5 160mm
    Crankset FSA Afterburner MegaExo 175mm with BB
    Chain SRAM PC971
    Front Derailleur Shimano XT E-Type FD-M760A-E
    Rear Derailleur SRAM X.9 Mid-cage
    Shifter SRAM X.9 Trigger
    Cassette SRAM PG-970 11-34
    Front Tire Maxxis Minion 2.35"
    Rear Tire Maxxis Minion 2.35"
    Wheels CHUMBA 20mm front axle, 10mm rear axle
    Saddle CHUMBA VL-1205 black kevlar chromoly rails
    Seat Post Truvativ XR 31.6mm 350mm
    Seat Clamp CHUMBA design 38.1mm
    Extreme stationary biker.

  13. #13
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    1399 for made in asia
    1699 for made in US (by an asian...just kidding)
    Serious question with no second intention...

    Are there any differences other than the place the bike is made?
    Welds, craftsmanship, etc??
    Or do you just notice each of them because of the "made in the USA" sticker?

    I'm asking because would I be interested on one, as a foreign customer, I'd rather save the 300 bucks and get the Asia version if the only difference is the place it's made.

    If indeed, the USA bike is better, 300 surcharge may be worth spending.
    Check my Site

  14. #14
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Serious question with no second intention...

    Are there any differences other than the place the bike is made?
    Welds, craftsmanship, etc??
    Or do you just notice each of them because of the "made in the USA" sticker?

    I'm asking because would I be interested on one, as a foreign customer, I'd rather save the 300 bucks and get the Asia version if the only difference is the place it's made.

    If indeed, the USA bike is better, 300 surcharge may be worth spending.
    Craftmanship is the same. Chumba owner, Ted Tanouye, spent a month overseas monitoring the build of the first crop of XCL's (I own one of these). The welds on my bike look great. Frame still sits though . I cannot decide on a fork.

    edit: The XCL's are made in a facility where other high end manufacturers are built as well...maybe one of them is Titus? I don't know (that is pure speculation).

    Here's a pic:
    chumba couch 1sm.JPG

    and another:
    chumba couch 3sm.JPG

    Sorry for the non-Titus propaganda, but Dulyebr brought it up.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  15. #15
    Do It Yourself
    Reputation: Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,721
    I've been looking at the XCL too. It's certainly in a good price point and with a Horst link design. That seems to be an underserved niche that the MotoLite used to fill. But since Titus has decided to go premium for frame only, one that's left vacant for aftermarket frames. They will probably sell very well.

    I know how everyone here values my un-expert opinion but this being the interweb and all, I'll give it anyway. The frame definitely is a good start but a few suggested refinements from the peanut gallery. It seems like they have focused more on front triangle stiffness than the rear linkage stiffness. From a maintenance and longevity standpoint, I don't think this is the best approach.

    Possible Improvements:
    1. I would definitely go with the clevis style chainstay pivot like Titus and Turner have been doing for many years. This is just a solid design.
    2. Also on the main pivot, I would probably figure a way to get a through bolt in there instead of two independent bolts. A solid axle there would stiffen it up and greatly help with bearing life.
    3. Then I think the frame would be stiff enough to downsize the MONSTER seat tube to a standard 34.9 which should be stiff enough. This would make it more compatible with standard seat collar and away from the e-type front derailleur.


    The good stuff:

    1. Beefcake tubing
    2. Proven Horst link design
    3. Inexpensive
    4. Anodized finish
    5. The solid axle rear shock bushing is a nice touch (can't tell from the picture on the front). This is something every frame should come with.
    6. Sweet head tube badge.
    7. Custom geometry (and made in USA option) is always a plus.


    Anyway, the 5" trail bike seems to be the big ticket item these days so I hope they do well with it. I look forward to more reports from the field.
    Long Live Long Rides

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,331
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Serious question with no second intention...

    Are there any differences other than the place the bike is made?
    Welds, craftsmanship, etc??
    Or do you just notice each of them because of the "made in the USA" sticker?

    I'm asking because would I be interested on one, as a foreign customer, I'd rather save the 300 bucks and get the Asia version if the only difference is the place it's made.

    If indeed, the USA bike is better, 300 surcharge may be worth spending.
    It is supposed to be the exact same bike. In several threads, the owner seemed to mention that fact.

    I wonder how much of a weight difference there is between a ML and a chumba. I thought the ML was close to 28 lbs, while the chumba seems to be closer to 31 lbs. Is this correct?

  17. #17
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Craftmanship is the same. Chumba owner, Ted Tanouye, spent a month overseas monitoring the build of the first crop of XCL's (I own one of these). The welds on my bike look great. Frame still sits though . I cannot decide on a fork.
    Thanks, folks!!!

    I would sway to the savings side, then...

    As for fork... Z1 RC2, no contest.
    Check my Site

  18. #18
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    I've been looking at the XCL too. It's certainly in a good price point and with a Horst link design. That seems to be an underserved niche that the MotoLite used to fill. But since Titus has decided to go premium for frame only, one that's left vacant for aftermarket frames. They will probably sell very well.

    I know how everyone here values my un-expert opinion but this being the interweb and all, I'll give it anyway. The frame definitely is a good start but a few suggested refinements from the peanut gallery. It seems like they have focused more on front triangle stiffness than the rear linkage stiffness. From a maintenance and longevity standpoint, I don't think this is the best approach.

    Possible Improvements:
    1. I would definitely go with the clevis style chainstay pivot like Titus and Turner have been doing for many years. This is just a solid design.
    2. Also on the main pivot, I would probably figure a way to get a through bolt in there instead of two independent bolts. A solid axle there would stiffen it up and greatly help with bearing life.
    3. Then I think the frame would be stiff enough to downsize the MONSTER seat tube to a standard 34.9 which should be stiff enough. This would make it more compatible with standard seat collar and away from the e-type front derailleur.


    The good stuff:

    1. Beefcake tubing
    2. Proven Horst link design
    3. Inexpensive
    4. Anodized finish
    5. The solid axle rear shock bushing is a nice touch (can't tell from the picture on the front). This is something every frame should come with.
    6. Sweet head tube badge.
    7. Custom geometry (and made in USA option) is always a plus.


    Anyway, the 5" trail bike seems to be the big ticket item these days so I hope they do well with it. I look forward to more reports from the field.
    I totally agree with your post.

    There's nothing better than constructive criticism.
    Check my Site

  19. #19
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    As for fork... Z1 RC2, no contest.
    It's on the list...pretty tall A2C though. Not adjustable...other than ETA...which I'm not sold on.

    Marz AM 1 SL ATA is on as well. Adjustable, light, but I'm not sold on TST for forks...just can't pull the trigger.

    Lyrik coil U-turn. Adjustable but the heaviest of the bunch, but only slightly over the Z1.

    This frame will see some abuse...this isn't going to be a weight weenie build, but I'd like to keep it under 33 pounds. If I can't, I'll sell and lighten up the SuMo or maybe look at the Ti version of the Guap when that hits the streets.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,759
    I would go with the Moto for sure if the frame-only was at a reasonable price point as it used to be. Now that you have to cough up a lot more, it really is a toss-up BUT are the ride reports of the XCL pretty impressive, barring all the new-bike buzz? I really don't have too much info on the XCL so I can't comment but the Moto is obviously proven. The only real con is the non-availability of the regular frames on their own.

  21. #21
    Do It Yourself
    Reputation: Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I totally agree with your post.

    There's nothing better than constructive criticism.
    Oh and I forgot to mention the sizing. It seems the Chumba are biased toward taller riders where the ML sizing is definitely biased toward shorter riders. Looking at the top tube, the XCL has a 1" gap between the small and medium but only a 1/2" gap between the medium and large. The XCL should give someone 6' (such as myself) a good amount of choice between the 23.5" TT medium or the 24" TT large. The shortshyts and NBA tall types out there have to take it or leave it or spring for the custom option. It's also nice to have a reasonably priced custom option. I mean, you could have a XCL with custom geometry made in California for not much more than a stock Turner or Titus and much less than an Intense or Ellsnotworthit. Like I said, I think the XCL will sell very well.
    Long Live Long Rides

  22. #22
    So is your face
    Reputation: celluloid hero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    570
    I certainly like the look of the XCL and would definitely love to try one out someday. But, I'm very happy with my ML2, so it'll be a long ways away.

    The thing I haven't been able to figure out about the XCL is what the standover is. I haven't seen an accurate number on the forums and their website new or old has never listed it.

    Geo, any knowledge in this department?
    IT'S NOT THE FALL THAT HURTS. IT'S WHEN YOU HIT THE GROUND.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    174

    Standover...

    Actual standover measurement of a Large XCL with Pike at 140mm (520mm A-C) is 32 inches.

  24. #24
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by uinta
    Actual standover measurement of a Large XCL with Pike at 140mm (520mm A-C) is 32 inches.
    hmmm.... That's about my inseam... But then, I'm material for a Small (5'9" here). Yet, it may be a close call for some tall guys with short legs.
    Check my Site

  25. #25
    So is your face
    Reputation: celluloid hero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by uinta
    Actual standover measurement of a Large XCL with Pike at 140mm (520mm A-C) is 32 inches.
    Thanks. While that's closer to the boys than the ML sits, it's still doable. I think my inseam is about 33.5 with no shoes on, so with shoes should be fine.
    IT'S NOT THE FALL THAT HURTS. IT'S WHEN YOU HIT THE GROUND.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    That looks real nice geolover !~!

    Congratulations

    Please install a Fox 36 Talas. I can't

    I agree, TST damping is not the greatest at high speeds. Mine is only reasonable when it's full open... the same as when I had a Motion Control fork... I guess orifice damping doesn't agree with me. Marzocchi should give TST the punt. I think Fox makes the best damping in the business full stop. My next fork will be a Fox even if I have to get a short 32 Vanilla or Talas with no 20mm axle.

    Amber Fluid Cheers
    AM

    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Craftmanship is the same. Chumba owner, Ted Tanouye, spent a month overseas monitoring the build of the first crop of XCL's (I own one of these). The welds on my bike look great. Frame still sits though . I cannot decide on a fork.

    edit: The XCL's are made in a facility where other high end manufacturers are built as well...maybe one of them is Titus? I don't know (that is pure speculation).

    Here's a pic:
    chumba couch 1sm.JPG

    and another:
    chumba couch 3sm.JPG

    Sorry for the non-Titus propaganda, but Dulyebr brought it up.

  27. #27
    the 36 year old grom
    Reputation: demo_slug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    I think Fox makes the best damping in the business full stop. My next fork will be a Fox even if I have to get a short 32 Vanilla or Talas with no 20mm axle.

    Amber Fluid Cheers
    AM
    fanboy!

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    fanboy!
    Do I get an 07 or 08 Vanilla RLC ?~?

    Is 08 Talas worthy ?~?

  29. #29
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Do I get an 07 or 08 Vanilla RLC ?~?

    Is 08 Talas worthy ?~?
    '08 if you're in postmount brakes already...

    I can go either way with my '07 Louises in 180/160
    Check my Site

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    '08 if you're in postmount brakes already...

    I can go either way with my '07 Louises in 180/160
    Doesn't make a difference with 07J7's with 185 rotors. I have to use an adaptor and have both post and is.

  31. #31
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,799
    umm.. and to top it all off.... our "local montana dealer" also deals Chumba according to the site... I may ask for his input on them...

  32. #32
    Ti is addictive
    Reputation: TiEndo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,894
    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    umm.. and to top it all off.... our "local montana dealer" also deals Chumba according to the site... I may ask for his input on them...
    LMAO...........I'll go check it out, haven't seen the store since I moved to "Montana" . Who knew the state was that big??????
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  33. #33
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,799
    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    LMAO...........I'll go check it out, haven't seen the store since I moved to "Montana" . Who knew the state was that big??????
    that state is still growing

  34. #34
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    LMAO...........I'll go check it out, haven't seen the store since I moved to "Montana" . Who knew the state was that big??????
    It's bigger than you'd think... Montana even claimed Mexico as part of its territory.
    Check my Site

  35. #35
    the 36 year old grom
    Reputation: demo_slug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Do I get an 07 or 08 Vanilla RLC ?~?

    Is 08 Talas worthy ?~?
    fox fanboy!
    I like the fox stuff because they don't break on me very often or at all and doesn't do anyhting really wrong performance wise. I'm realy not picky. I just want stuff that works.

    you ever notice that when stuff doesn't work right you focus on it. I used to be a real suspension geek and was super picky. I'd go for a ride and I would really concentrate on what the suspension was doing right or wrong, it really made or killed the whole ride for me....

    well, i don't pay atention anymore. the fox stuff and the motolite doesn't annoy me ( ok it might be time for a DHX) but, I trust it. so it doesn't get in the way of enjoying my ride. I really just want to forget about the hardware. I'm also not a brake freak anymore now that I've switched to formula.

    But I'm starting to be kinda focused on rims rigth now. starting to hate on the 819s.

    I'd go 08 van R.... if you use lockout then get the RLC. but, getting the 08 stuff early is the perks of buying aftermarket. fox prices are stable... so you probably wont find a screaming deal on the 07s.

    I like my 07 talas RL, I got it used. I run the spring softer then spec, i forget the PSI. I think the air seal friction in the talas is a zero issue for a heavy rider. there is seal friction that I can feel before i sit on the bike. but once I'm rolling its plusher then my 06 pushed van. very noticible on med hits, I love the way it blows thru travel.

  36. #36
    ಠ_ಠ
    Reputation: dulyebr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,192
    I like the XCL's geo a bit better. I read that the BB is at 13.25 with the Pike at 110mm and 13.75 with it max'd at 140mm. To my mind that's perfect.

    The MotoLite has a more enduro geometry with a BB of 13.4 with the Pike at 110mm and 13.9 with it max'd out. Also, the head and seat tube angles are about a half degree or so slacker.

    It's a tough call, but I do like the idea that the XCL is designed for the Pike and DHX-Air.

  37. #37
    Paste eater
    Reputation: Jwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,557
    I think My ML BB is at 14.2 with My PIKE and 2.4 tires. I have to say it was a little strange at first ( I came from a bike with a low BB) but now I wouldn't change the ML geo for anything. BB height is a BIG part of my decision when buying bikes from now on...

  38. #38
    ಠ_ಠ
    Reputation: dulyebr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind
    I think My ML BB is at 14.2 with My PIKE and 2.4 tires. I have to say it was a little strange at first ( I came from a bike with a low BB) but now I wouldn't change the ML geo for anything. BB height is a BIG part of my decision when buying bikes from now on...
    I stand corrected, just measured my bb with the Pike all the way out (with similar sized tires) and it came out to 14.2inches...

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: antonio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,978
    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    I like the XCL's geo a bit better. I read that the BB is at 13.25 with the Pike at 110mm and 13.75 with it max'd at 140mm. To my mind that's perfect.

    The MotoLite has a more enduro geometry with a BB of 13.4 with the Pike at 110mm and 13.9 with it max'd out. Also, the head and seat tube angles are about a half degree or so slacker.

    It's a tough call, but I do like the idea that the XCL is designed for the Pike and DHX-Air.
    Is the height measured with sag?

    Ant

  40. #40
    thats right living legend
    Reputation: blackagness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,377
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Is the height measured with sag?

    Ant

    no.

  41. #41
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Is the height measured with sag?

    Ant
    No... My SB with the AM1 at 145mm (535mm A2C) sits at 14.25" UNSAGGED.

    I don't really know how much would it measure at sag... it's not only the fork that sinks into the travel. The frame does it also...
    Check my Site

  42. #42
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    fox fanboy!
    I like the fox stuff because they don't break on me very often or at all and doesn't do anyhting really wrong performance wise. I'm realy not picky. I just want stuff that works.
    Demo
    I could say the same thing, but I'd insert Marzocchi for Fox here...at least the heavy duty coil models. I know many in the PNW and lower BC area feel the same way. My 66rc2x is bomb proof and is the best feeling fork I've ever ridden. Although, I don't trust TST and Fox's air products look more reliable.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  43. #43
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,831
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Although, I don't trust TST and Fox's air products look more reliable.
    TST is not the best thing out there. It works nicely, but as Demo would say... "I'm not very picky". Certainly the compression damping in my old Magura Phaon was better. The rebound is nicer than the Maggy, though.

    I'd happily carry around 200grs more (how much is that in ounces?? Like four and change?) of oil and metal for better damping... like RC2 or HSCV. I still can't figure out why Marzocchi thinks a fork with 150mm of travel can get away with a simple closed orifice+blowoff damper. Some speed sensitivity in the rebound would be welcome, even if it works nice already.
    Check my Site

  44. #44
    the 36 year old grom
    Reputation: demo_slug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    but as Demo would say... "I'm not very picky".
    thats right, I'm not very picky as long a my expectations are met.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    596

    Marz

    Oh, go with Marzy. You'll thank those fine folks later. I've had 5 or 6 em. Some on motorcycles and several on bicycles. The Marz has the superior rebound damping. To me, lockout and platform are just chrome plating. My fork has TST, I always ride in the "no compression dampening" position. I had to try a couple of different oil weights to get the dampening perfect. I have 3000 miles on a 05 Marathon SL with no issues, only routine maintance.

  46. #46
    what's that rattle?
    Reputation: Blofeld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    321
    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I would think the stiffness of articulations is more important for pure stiffness. However, more meat at the connecting members will not only help with stiffness, but also helps with longevity.
    I agree with what Warp is saying about the longevity of a part and the amount of material used. For bikes with Horst links, I think that having beefier chainstays is more important. My riding buddies have cracked 5 Horst bikes, and it's always been on the inside of the chainstays near the main pivot.

    Has anyone here ever broken a seatstay?

  47. #47
    Do It Yourself
    Reputation: Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Blofeld
    Has anyone here ever broken a seatstay?
    Like this one?


    Moto-poooo
    Long Live Long Rides

  48. #48
    what's that rattle?
    Reputation: Blofeld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    321
    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    Like this one?
    Ouch!! Where exactly is it that crack on the seatstay? There's quite a bit of paint discoloration at the base of that weld - could be a bit of a warning sign to watch out for. I know if my CF seatstays try any tricks like that it had better at least be on video!

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,212
    All bet there will be far less fractures on the new carbon seat stays compared to the old Alu ones which reported numerous cracks. It was just too small tubing too thin and then they weld the crap out of it.

  50. #50
    GUIDANCE COUNSELOR
    Reputation: NoahColorado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,160
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    It's on the list...pretty tall A2C though. Not adjustable...other than ETA...which I'm not sold on.

    Marz AM 1 SL ATA is on as well. Adjustable, light, but I'm not sold on TST for forks...just can't pull the trigger.

    .
    HMM, this thread is so interesting. The XCL has caught my eye lately. I just noticed that they dropped the MSRP and I saw some pics of the XTR gray ones. I'm in the market again for a new trail frame and this and the Heckler are my top picks right now. I love my 5-Spot, but I'm out of commission for another 2 1/2 months due to a broken elbow and subsequent surgery. I need a new project so I'm not tempted to ride before my arm gets better.

    Marzocchi just gave me a AM1SL and I was wondering if that big of a fork would work on the XCL. That build seems like it would be pretty sick for the terrain out here. I'd probably replace the DHX-Air with a Marz air or coilover. I had a DHX Air on my Spot and didn't care for it.

    GEOLOVER - have you set up the bike yet or made a decision on the fork?
    NOAH SEARS
    MRP
    TECH QUESTIONS HERE: INFO@MRPBIKE.COM

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •