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  1. #1
    Goin' Down ain't bad!!!
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    Woody's ML Resolution

    Geeze...just when the Snapped ML Thread was getting interesting.

    Woody....let us know how the resolution of your ML Issue goes. I'm sure Chris and Co will take care of you!!!
    Dug-da-Goat

    "Oh momma, could this really be the end? To be stuck outside of Mojo with the High Side Blues again!!!"

  2. #2
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    he may gotten a sweet-heart deal with a non-disclosure clause. i think that's what CranxOC got with his Racer-X -- pure speculation.

  3. #3
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    Boy that thread got crazy, huh?

    A deal is in the works. I don't want to say anything until it's finalized.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    ...

    A deal is in the works. I don't want to say anything until it's finalized.
    Cool I like surprises.

  5. #5
    Goin' Down ain't bad!!!
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    Good to hear....hope you can make those rides you got planned.

    If any of you guys race, check this out.

    http://www.mavsports.com/?id=8

    I'm thinking of doing a Sport Duo Team with a buddy of mine. 5400' of climbing in 25 miles. That'll kick ya into shape!!!!
    Dug-da-Goat

    "Oh momma, could this really be the end? To be stuck outside of Mojo with the High Side Blues again!!!"

  6. #6
    Veni Vidi Vici
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    Good to hear that woodyak Hope you get a deal that will work for you

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    Boy that thread got crazy, huh?

    A deal is in the works. I don't want to say anything until it's finalized.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    Good to hear....hope you can make those rides you got planned.

    If any of you guys race, check this out.

    http://www.mavsports.com/?id=8

    I'm thinking of doing a Sport Duo Team with a buddy of mine. 5400' of climbing in 25 miles. That'll kick ya into shape!!!!
    pedaling uphill is so early 00's ....

  8. #8
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    Ok. The long awaited deal is finalized. Titus and Hammerhead are taking care of me. Charles went above and beyond to make the deal happen and his efforts are greatly appreciated.

    Without getting into specifics on the competitive upgrade details I have a small blue El Guapo w/DHX Air coming my way. We all agreed that the Motolite just isn't going to cut it for me unless I tame my riding (which I'm not willing to do).

    However, I haven't made up my mind yet but I'm strongly considering selling the EG when it arrives. The sizing for the small EG concerns me. I like my bikes on the smaller side rather than the larger size. I figure if I sell it I have the opportunity to get into any frame that I want and there are so many options and deals these days that I simply can't ignore. I'm like a kid in a candy store

    What do you guys think?

  9. #9
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    Why would you post on here that you are thinking about selling the frame? If I had been the one working hard to take care of this problem I would think twice about it now. I had read the previous threAd and thought you would be taken care of on replacing the frame. Still, If you sold it why not try it first. Just my thought, please don't throw the book at me.
    Brian

  10. #10
    FM
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    Without getting into specifics on the competitive upgrade details I have a small blue El Guapo w/DHX Air coming my way. We all agreed that the Motolite just isn't going to cut it for me unless I tame my riding (which I'm not willing to do).

    However, I haven't made up my mind yet but I'm strongly considering selling the EG when it arrives. The sizing for the small EG concerns me. I like my bikes on the smaller side rather than the larger size. I figure if I sell it I have the opportunity to get into any frame that I want and there are so many options and deals these days that I simply can't ignore. I'm like a kid in a candy store

    What do you guys think?
    Thats awesome!

    Post up some details about what your motolite build was like (stem length, amount of exposed seatpost, # of headset spacers, etc) and we'll compare the motolite to the el Guapo and see how things shake out.

    I just went through this myself. When in doubt about sizing, I think a larger frame makes more sense for "in between" aggressive riders. The longer wheelbase will be less endo-prone on steeps and more stable on skinnies and at high speeds. A larger frame allows you to run a shorter stem and get the same distance between the bars and saddle. this in turn centers your weight between the wheels or slightly rearward, whereas a short TT/long stem moves yoru weight farther over the front wheel.

    Of course, too big is too big....either way the el guapo will have great resale value, even if you ride it for a while and find it doesn't fit..

  11. #11
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by blooper
    Why would you post on here that you are thinking about selling the frame? If I had been the one working hard to take care of this problem I would think twice about it now. I had read the previous threAd and thought you would be taken care of on replacing the frame. Still, If you sold it why not try it first. Just my thought, please don't throw the book at me.
    Brian
    Sounded sketch to me too, but oh well.

  12. #12
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    I was just throwing it out there. I haven't decide yet.

  13. #13
    the train keeps rollin
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    Hah,, when you get the El Guapo, your going to jonse, and build it up..

  14. #14
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I was just throwing it out there. I haven't decide yet.

    Like FM said if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit. But he also makes some good points about the posability of it fitting so I think it might work out perfect.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I was just throwing it out there. I haven't decide yet.
    That blue color is killer.

    Speculation is fun, but really no one knows how it's gonna feel until you ride it.

    What fork will go on the EG? That will affect ride feel as well.

    What are the other bikes on your list?
    Extreme stationary biker.

  16. #16
    "El Whatever"
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    Good to know they're taking care of you in a favorable way.

    Bummer if the EG doesn't fit, but I wouldn't let it go without trying it out first.

    If everything goes south, check out the Duncon Akita... heavy, overbuilt, but pretty much like what you're looking for and affordable. I've seen one in the flesh and it's a nice bike, well (over)built, geometry is right with the right shock, etc. It's basically for 4X/Slopestyle but it can go with different travel settings.

    Maybe a Bottlerocket too... I haven't seen one, but I figure the Akita will take punishment better. It has THAT much of material. You won't break it.

    Good luck! I hope you stay in the family once that beauty gets to your hands.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak

    What do you guys think?
    I think you knew damn well the failure wasn't a manufacturing defect. I think Charles did you more favors than you deserved.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Thats awesome!

    Post up some details about what your motolite build was like (stem length, amount of exposed seatpost, # of headset spacers, etc) and we'll compare the motolite to the el Guapo and see how things shake out.

    I just went through this myself. When in doubt about sizing, I think a larger frame makes more sense for "in between" aggressive riders. The longer wheelbase will be less endo-prone on steeps and more stable on skinnies and at high speeds. A larger frame allows you to run a shorter stem and get the same distance between the bars and saddle. this in turn centers your weight between the wheels or slightly rearward, whereas a short TT/long stem moves yoru weight farther over the front wheel.

    Of course, too big is too big....either way the el guapo will have great resale value, even if you ride it for a while and find it doesn't fit..
    I had it built up with a 120mm stem w/no spacers and an AM1 set at 140-145mm. I had a good bit of exposed seatpost, enough so the seat was slightly higher than the bars. I could go with a shorter stem but I am concerned about the longer wheelbase. I come from a bmx background as a kid so I like how the smaller bikes handle.

    Yeah, I figure it would be easy to sell. I am tempted to build it up but then I'd lose some $ by taking it off the lot. I'll have to look at it when it comes in.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdrifter
    Hah,, when you get the El Guapo, your going to jonse, and build it up..
    That is highly likely as I am known to be quite impulsive...

  20. #20
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Maybe a Bottlerocket too... I haven't seen one, but I figure the Akita will take punishment better. It has THAT much of material. You won't break it.
    I haven't seen the Duncon Akita personally (looks beefy), but the BR is definitely overbuilt. I've got several buddies on them and they're burly......35 lbs. is realistic with a lighter build.

    Woodyak, I agree that if you're being hooked up with a deal on an El G upgrade (which is the right thing to do, btw) that stating you might just sell it immediately is bad form.....even if it's true. The last thing folks that go out of their way to help someone want to see is you sell their frame as soon as you get it. Of course, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit....but you may want to get some saddle time on it before you make that call. Also, not sure what size stem you use, but a shorter stem might help alleviate any issues in TT length. The demand is such that even a slightly ridden El G will still command top dollar.

    Cheers,
    EB

    Edit: just saw your post about a 120mm stem. Dude, do yourself a favor and put a 100, 90 or even a 70 mm stem on that bike and get the most out of it. I realize the wheelbase issue is your concern, but it isn't that dramatic and the bike will handle so much better with a shorter stem.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    That blue color is killer.

    Speculation is fun, but really no one knows how it's gonna feel until you ride it.

    What fork will go on the EG? That will affect ride feel as well.

    What are the other bikes on your list?
    Speculation IS fun. I love having options.

    I have an AM1 w/thru axle. I think that fork would be spot on for the EG.

    Short List:
    RFX
    6.6
    Spec Enduro (very popular around here)
    Nomad (also vey popular around here)
    Transition has some good looking frames

    I'm sure the list will grow. I'm probably going to look for slightly used so that will be a large factor in my decision.

  22. #22
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    I haven't seen the Duncon Akita personally (looks beefy), but the BR is definitely overbuilt. I've got several buddies on them and they're burly......35 lbs. is realistic with a lighter build.
    Oh, don't get me wrong... I'm sure those are pretty sturdy, neither I was implying they're weaksauce. Not at all.

    Here's the Akita, just for the sake of comparison...

    http://www.duncon.com/index.php?id=p...5&kat=geometry



    But I also think he'll be fine on the EG with your recommendations. 120mm was too much for such a small bike.
    Check my Site

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    I haven't seen the Duncon Akita personally (looks beefy), but the BR is definitely overbuilt. I've got several buddies on them and they're burly......35 lbs. is realistic with a lighter build.

    Woodyak, I agree that if you're being hooked up with a deal on an El G upgrade (which is the right thing to do, btw) that stating you might just sell it immediately is bad form.....even if it's true. The last thing folks that go out of their way to help someone want to see is you sell their frame as soon as you get it. Of course, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit....but you may want to get some saddle time on it before you make that call. Also, not sure what size stem you use, but a shorter stem might help alleviate any issues in TT length. The demand is such that even a slightly ridden El G will still command top dollar.

    Cheers,
    EB
    I hear you loud and clear. A big issue that I was kind of embarrased to bring up is the $ issue. $ is real tight for me now so spending the $ for the upgrade and then getting the necessary parts is putting me in a real bind. I ran the numbers and if I can find a slightly used frame at the right price and sell the EG for a reasonable price then I can have a bike and not be broke. I've bought a bunch of stuff from him and sent some of my buddies his way so he knows he is appreciated.

    So before when I said I could look at any bike that I wanted that wasn't true. I'll really be looking for a slightly used frame (I've actually seen some recently).

    I'm sure I could get the EG to fit with some fairly minor adjustments but can I afford it? Maybe, maybe not.
    Last edited by woodyak; 06-28-2007 at 08:14 AM.

  24. #24
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    A Pearl and V-brake bosses? WTF?
    Extreme stationary biker.

  25. #25
    Ti is addictive
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    Nice to hear that they have provided a nice solution to you Woody. Please at least try the EG. If you have the fork most of your parts from the ML should switch over.
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  26. #26
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    A Pearl and V-brake bosses? WTF?
    Hey, I happen to know another bike that's coming with the pearl!

    V brakes are coming back, yo! Just you wait......

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I just went through this myself...
    did you decide on a new frame?

  28. #28
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    did you decide on a new frame?
    perhaps....

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    When in doubt about sizing, I think a larger frame makes more sense for "in between" aggressive riders.
    I politely disagree.

    I'd rather ride a smaller bike.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  30. #30
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I had it built up with a 120mm stem w/no spacers and an AM1 set at 140-145mm. I had a good bit of exposed seatpost, enough so the seat was slightly higher than the bars. I could go with a shorter stem but I am concerned about the longer wheelbase. I come from a bmx background as a kid so I like how the smaller bikes handle.
    whoa, in that case I would FOR SURE go with a frame that has a longer top tube, the subtract that extra length from the stem. I've tried both extremes and the only situations where I preffered the shorter wheelbase was for technical climbing, or really slow twisty trails (we do have lots of those around here).

    With the bikes I currently own, I know I prefer the longer wheelbase/shorter stem of my highline on elevated stuff and while catching air.

    I'm typically skeptical of all things Gary FIsher, but he was on to something with Genesis Geometry- same fit, longer top tube+ short stem = more high speed stability and more resistance to endo'ing on steep downhills. When I'm frame shoppin', I usually know the total length I need between seat tube and bars (about 26.5"). Then I say, "I like the handling I get with a 70-90mm stem", that means I need a 23.5
    top tube......
    Last edited by FM; 06-08-2007 at 01:46 PM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    that means I need a 23.5 top tube......
    Mmmhhhh.... Medium size Transition??
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  32. #32
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    I politely disagree.

    I'd rather ride a smaller bike.

    But with a longer stem to get the same fit? Then you're just moving weight towards the front wheel....

    F.O. with your politeness, seal clubber!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    perhaps....
    tease.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    But with a longer stem to get the same fit? Then you're just moving weight towards the front wheel....

    F.O. with your politeness, seal clubber!
    Umm, not necessarily a longer stem either...I just like smaller bikes. I'll take reduced climbing efficiency for improved technical handling anyday.

    FWIW, I like a smaller bike for elevated stuff and catching air. I feel they are more manuverable. The longer/bigger bikes handle like a battleship...some people really like that feeling...gives them "confidence". Well, it's a crutch I say...and it scares the hell out of me. I like to be able to turn my bike.

    I guess I'm just a better rider than you.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I'm typically skeptical of all things Gary FIsher, but he was on to something with Genesis Geometry- same fit, longer top tube+ short stem = more high speed stability and more resistance to endo'ing on steep downhills. When I'm frame shoppin', I usually know the total length I need between seat tube and bars (about 26.5"). Then I say, "I like the handling I get with a 70-90mm stem", that means I need a 23.5
    top tube......
    It's funny that you throw Genesis Geometry out ther because that's what I'm riding now. I have an old HKEK hardtail that I beefed up as my interium ride. I don't know about the handling on that bike, it's really awkward. I'm with Geo on this one. I like them short and small so I can throw the bike around. Ripping downhill has never frightened me so I don't really need the stability. If I'm getting a large travel bike I'm going in the air that's for sure

  36. #36
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Umm, not necessarily a longer stem either...I just like smaller bikes. I'll take reduced climbing efficiency for improved technical handling anyday.

    FWIW, I like a smaller bike for elevated stuff and catching air. I feel they are more manuverable. The longer/bigger bikes handle like a battleship...some people really like that feeling...gives them "confidence". Well, it's a crutch I say...and it scares the hell out of me. I like to be able to turn my bike.

    I guess I'm just a better rider than you.

    I agree! I hate a long wheelbase.... and I'm a better rider than Geo, so that tells ya something.



    Edit: but FM makes a great point about "needing" a longer stem, and therefor ending monkeyf@cking the handlebars on the descents.

  37. #37
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    All this talk about building and un building el guapos….Anybody know how to get a headset out of an el guapo??? Just a random question. The head tube is internally butted so I don’t think the standard removers will work.

    http://www.biketoolsetc.com/Product_Images/PA-RT2.jpg

    The standard flared headset removers rely on the head tube to line the tines up with the headset cup. Given the large step in the butting on the guapo head tube, I think the times would get stuck on the butting and not press out the head set cup.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Umm, not necessarily a longer stem either...I just like smaller bikes. I'll take reduced climbing efficiency for improved technical handling anyday.
    That I understand and agree with. But woodyak running a 120mm stem... I mean I haven't ridden with him and don't truly know his riding style... but to me, 120mm stem means either the frame is too small, or the rider prefers XC-style fit (weight-forward bias for long climbs)

    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    FWIW, I like a smaller bike for elevated stuff and catching air. I feel they are more manuverable. The longer/bigger bikes handle like a battleship...some people really like that feeling...gives them "confidence". Well, it's a crutch I say...and it scares the hell out of me. I like to be able to turn my bike.
    I think of bike fit as two separate topics:
    • pedaling fit- this is where your bars are in relation to your seat and pedals. You can get the same "pedaling fit" from a big bike with a short stem, or a small bike with a long stem and headset spacers.
    • Handling fit- this is your weight bias. Wheelbase, chainstay length, and long TT/short stem vs. short top tube and long stem, all move your weight around between/over the wheels.


    So you can get your hands, feet and ass all in the right place with a small frame or a large frame, just depends on the stem length/rise & seatpost adjustments.

    I like the smaller "pedaling fit" you are talkin about, but within that fit, I prefer a larger frame/shorter stem "handling fit" for the reasons mentioned.

    just my .02c

    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    I guess I'm just a better rider than you.
    That's what the seals say. I'll take their word for it!


  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    ...monkeyf@cking the handlebars...

    Damn that was funny. I just gotta funny look from a roughneck...different from the standard funny look that I usually get.

    FM said, "words, words, words...just my .02c"

    That's about twice as much as that opinion is worth.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    The standard flared headset removers rely on the head tube to line the tines up with the headset cup. Given the large step in the butting on the guapo head tube, I think the times would get stuck on the butting and not press out the head set cup.
    1.- Screwdriver, primitve, barbarian, but YOU will never confuse the headset with the headtube. Well, if the cups end where the butting begins, you're SOL anyways.

    2.- Collets... supposing you can get one from you local machine shop and that you don't end with the bearings in hand and the cups in the frame.

    3.- Dremel and cut off the dang cups.

    In all seriousness... how do you remove one of those?
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  41. #41
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    long stems are for sissies

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    perhaps....
    ordered a Jamis ?~?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Umm, not necessarily a longer stem either...I just like smaller bikes. I'll take reduced climbing efficiency for improved technical handling anyday.

    FWIW, I like a smaller bike for elevated stuff and catching air. I feel they are more manuverable. The longer/bigger bikes handle like a battleship...some people really like that feeling...gives them "confidence". Well, it's a crutch I say...and it scares the hell out of me. I like to be able to turn my bike.

    I guess I'm just a better rider than you.
    you just like having shorter chainstays to make the bike more maneuverable

  44. #44
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover

    FM said, "words, words, words..."


  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    you just like having shorter chainstays to make the bike more maneuverable
    Not true. I also like shorter chainstays, but they are independent of each other IMO. Apparently, I like to monkeyf@ck the handlebars....

    FM, I do agree with you...a 120mm stem is no bueno. That bike was likely too small.

    Woody, have you given us your measurements? How tall, etc.?
    Extreme stationary biker.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I agree! I hate a long wheelbase.... and I'm a better rider than Geo, so that tells ya something.

    Edit: but FM makes a great point about "needing" a longer stem, and therefor ending monkeyf@cking the handlebars on the descents.
    I had 3-4 bikes with 22.5" top tubes and 110-130mm stems before coming to see the light.

    Now liking 23.25"+ top tubes with 50-90mm stems on my last 3 bikes.

    1" longer top tube, 2" shorter stem.

    Longer wheelbase rules for the steeps. Look at DH bikes, always longer wheelbases...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    FM said, "words, words, words...just my .02c"
    Is your top tube longer than your attention span?

    I'll try to dumb it down for you emoticon fan boys

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I had 3-4 bikes with 22.5" top tubes and 110-130mm stems before coming to see the light.

    Now liking 23.25"+ top tubes with 50-90mm stems on my last 3 bikes.

    1" longer top tube, 2" shorter stem.

    Longer wheelbase rules for the steeps. Look at DH bikes, always longer wheelbases...
    For the record, I would never use a stem longer than say 90mm. I'm 6'2". My SuMo has a TT of 23.8...I use a 70mm stem. It's perfect.When I was looking at the SixPack I nearly bought the MEDIUM...because it felt better than the Large (23.4 vs. 24.2). My XL stinky had a 23.4 TT. I loved how that bike fit with a 50mm stem. I could still outpedal most.

    Longer wheelbase rules the speed, not the steeps. Slacker angles are what keep the steeps happy. My large sumo has a 44 inch wheelbase and can go down anything any DH bike can do...and if I need to turn during the decent, I can do it better.

    Of course, this is my opinion...YMMV.

    Great photo, BTW!
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Longer wheelbase rules the speed, not the steeps. Slacker angles are what keep the steeps happy.
    True.. and those slack angles are part of what makes the wheelbase long. Why does a slack head tube feel better on steeps? partly cause it moves the front wheel away from you.

    if you have real slack angles and short chainstays (to shorten up the wheelbase, since the slack angles made it longer) then the bike starts to climb poorly. All your weight is over the back end, and the steeper the hill, the more horizontal your fork gets.

    So this is why a lot of brands are going to the slack angles, short top tube and LONGER chainstays... nomad for instance. so you get... a longer wheelbase!

    Anyways I'm not disagreeing.... just sayin'. It's a package deal...... gotta look at the whole package.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    True.. and those slack angles are part of what makes the wheelbase long. Why does a slack head tube feel better on steeps? partly cause it moves the front wheel away from you.

    if you have real slack angles and short chainstays (to shorten up the wheelbase, since the slack angles made it longer) then the bike starts to climb poorly. All your weight is over the back end, and the steeper the hill, the more horizontal your fork gets.

    So this is why a lot of brands are going to the slack angles, short top tube and LONGER chainstays... nomad for instance. so you get... a longer wheelbase!

    Anyways I'm not disagreeing.... just sayin'. It's a package deal...... gotta look at the whole package.
    Yup, and there is only one package that has the perfect combination of WB, slack angles and climbing ability (relative for its class)...and that is the Titus Supermoto.

    For me, it is/was the perfect "one" bike. Now I have the money for more than one bike and having it is spoiling my search for a second bike. The sumo just feels so good.

    FM, you bought the wrong Titus.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    FM, you bought the wrong Titus.
    Ha ha, the truth is I love the motolite.

    The problem is, most of the local "pure XC" rides I was doing when I bought the motolite, got screwed up in the big storms last year. That motivated us to build a bunch of new trails that all feature drops, jumps and skinnies.

    It was interesting on my road trip, to talk to guys with "one bike". For the most part, their local trails were all similar styles... not like here. My crew is riding whistler bike park or the shore one weekend, next weekend they are climbing 3k' to a buff XC descent. It makes the "one bike" think kind of tough... dammit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Ha ha, the truth is I love the motolite.

    The problem is, most of the local "pure XC" rides I was doing when I bought the motolite, got screwed up in the big storms last year. That motivated us to build a bunch of new trails that all feature drops, jumps and skinnies.

    It was interesting on my road trip, to talk to guys with "one bike". For the most part, their local trails were all similar styles... not like here. My crew is riding whistler bike park or the shore one weekend, next weekend they are climbing 3k' to a buff XC descent. It makes the "one bike" think kind of tough... dammit!
    I agree! We need more bikes!

    Great thread! We totally took it over!
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Not true. I also like shorter chainstays, but they are independent of each other IMO. Apparently, I like to monkeyf@ck the handlebars....

    FM, I do agree with you...a 120mm stem is no bueno. That bike was likely too small.

    Woody, have you given us your measurements? How tall, etc.?
    5'4"
    29" inseam
    150 lbs. pure muscle (well mostly muscle)

    I'm riding the 120mm stem because that's what Charles spec'd me with back in the LocoMoto days. It's transferred over from bike to bike and it's what I'm comfortable with now. That doesn't mean there isn't room for trying something new. So what size stem should I try with the EG when I build it up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    5'4"
    29" inseam
    150 lbs. pure muscle (well mostly muscle)

    I'm riding the 120mm stem because that's what Charles spec'd me with back in the LocoMoto days. It's transferred over from bike to bike and it's what I'm comfortable with now. That doesn't mean there isn't room for trying something new. So what size stem should I try with the EG when I build it up?
    I've already said I wouldn't use any stem longer than 90mm, but that's how I like it. Others may disagree. I would start with a 70 or 90. It will quicken up the steering...you can slow the steering down a little by using wider bars.

    I prefer to use the shortest stem I can and still be fairly comfortable climbing. It'll also depend on riding style...but, if you're breakin' frames, my guess is you ride more aggressive and would like a shorter stem.

    Hopefully somebody with a closer body type will chime in.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    I've already said I wouldn't use any stem longer than 90mm, but that's how I like it. Others may disagree. I would start with a 70 or 90. It will quicken up the steering...you can slow the steering down a little by using wider bars.
    Yep, I totally agree. See, Geo and I think totally alike.

    If I need longer than a 90mm stem to feel comfortable while climbing, then I'm looking for a frame with a longer top tube. 70mm is ideal. I run a 50mm on my highline, definitely biased towards downhill on that bike- still climbs well, just not as comfortable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Yep, I totally agree. See, Geo and I think totally alike.
    Yeah, thanks alot...this little discussion has caused me to rethink my recent bike purchase...there could be 5" trail bike frame on the market soon...unridden.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    5'4"
    29" inseam
    150 lbs. pure muscle (well mostly muscle)

    I'm riding the 120mm stem....So what size stem should I try with the EG when I build it up?
    I'm the same dimensions, little lighter, and run a 50 on both my RFX and Highline. Riding with a 120 sounds bizarre and there is going to be some adjusting of your technique when going shorter, but you will learn to appreciate the more upright and centered position. Stems are cheap, get a 100, then a 75, then a ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Yeah, thanks alot...this little discussion has caused me to rethink my recent bike purchase...there could be 5" trail bike frame on the market soon...unridden.

    I think I know exactley what direction your thinking of going, and your mad!!!! Mad I tell you!!!! MAD!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    I'm the same dimensions, little lighter, and run a 50 on both my RFX and Highline. Riding with a 120 sounds bizarre and there is going to be some adjusting of your technique when going shorter, but you will learn to appreciate the more upright and centered position. Stems are cheap, get a 100, then a 75, then a ...
    A 50? Good Lord. This is going to feel really wierd...

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    Quote Originally Posted by woody
    A 50? Good Lord. This is going to feel really weird...

    The way you apparently ride you will definitely need to get a shorter stem. You'll be glad you did. 120mm is waaaaay too long! Shoot these day's even XC racers might consider that a bit much. Esp for the kind of riding you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    A 50? Good Lord. This is going to feel really wierd...
    now worries about it Woody.. I am going through the shortening process... I came from 130, to 120, to 110, to 100..and now got a 80mm... I now see that 80 mm is a tad short...because it actually causes me some back pain from being cramped... so I guess my sweet spot is around 90-100 on a 23.25 - 23.7 ETT frames (I am 5' 11" with 31" inseam..both longer than "standard" arms, at least with regards to long sleeve shirts)

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I think I know exactley what direction your thinking of going, and your mad!!!! Mad I tell you!!!! MAD!!!!!
    I'm glad someone knows what direction I'm going. I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know which direction that might be....

    I'm not getting an El Guapo, if that's what you're thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    I'm glad someone knows what direction I'm going. I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know which direction that might be....

    I'm not getting an El Guapo, if that's what you're thinking.

    Not what I'm thinking.. dummie!

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Yeah, thanks alot...this little discussion has caused me to rethink my recent bike purchase...there could be 5" trail bike frame on the market soon...unridden.
    yeah me too.. there's no way to know for sure until you ride it. I do know my next ride will be longer in the top tube than the motolite, and the stem will be shorter. overall the front end will be about the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    A 50? Good Lord. This is going to feel really wierd...
    woodyak, I think you're on the right track though. Go for a 70mm. On the various bikes I've tried, 70mm usually feels like a great balance between climbing and DH. If the frame fits right, the front wheel axle should sit just in front of, or under, the stem when you lookk down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    woodyak, I think you're on the right track though. Go for a 70mm. On the various bikes I've tried, 70mm usually feels like a great balance between climbing and DH. If the frame fits right, the front wheel axle should sit just in front of, or under, the stem when you lookk down.
    Yesterday we disagree...today we agree.

    What a difference a day makes.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    woodyak, I think you're on the right track though. Go for a 70mm. On the various bikes I've tried, 70mm usually feels like a great balance between climbing and DH. If the frame fits right, the front wheel axle should sit just in front of, or under, the stem when you lookk down.
    I just went through my bike junkyard and found both a 70 and a 90 stem. They're cheapo stems but they'll at least give me the feel for what I like. Now the wait begins...

  67. #67
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    Fashion Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    there could be 5" trail bike frame on the market soon...unridden.
    Titus fanboy extreme!!!!!


    My 2 cents. I don't like short stems for trail riding. I got a 50mm stem on my DH bike... but thats only because it looks silly with a 90mm, so I'm a fashion victim. wouldn't you like to be a fashion victim too???

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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    Titus fanboy extreme!!!!!


    My 2 cents. I don't like short stems for trail riding. I got a 50mm stem on my DH bike... but thats only because it looks silly with a 90mm, so I'm a fashion victim. wouldn't you like to be a fashion victim too???

    I think a 100mm or more stem is well suited to the ML depending on your application. I started with a 110mm than to a 100mm, and now I'm running a 90mm. I loved the way every one of them felt. As my riding began to lean more on the aggro side my stem became shorter and shorter that's all. great bike to be so adaptable IMO.

    But we;re talking about the EG now, and IMO 90mm is about as far as you'd want to go, and still "for that bike" I'd say it's too long.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I think a 100mm or more stem is well suited to the ML depending on your application. I started with a 110mm than to a 100mm, and now I'm running a 90mm. I loved the way every one of them felt. As my riding began to lean more on the aggro side my stem became shorter and shorter that's all. great bike to be so adaptable IMO.

    But we;re talking about the EG now, and IMO 90mm is about as far as you'd want to go, and still "for that bike" I'd say it's too long.
    Agreed.... Also depends on the size of the frame/rider... A Small with a 120, well... is a tad long. But it's perfect for a Large, for XC-Trail.

    Geo... I know you want a second Titus... let's make a swap...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Geo... I know you want a second Titus... let's make a swap...
    Warp

    That sounds like a sweet deal for sure, but no second Titus for me...I'm waiting for Titus to make another Whistler bike.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Warp

    That sounds like a sweet deal for sure, but no second Titus for me...I'm waiting for Titus to make another Whistler bike.
    I was joking... even though the XCL is plain sweet.

    But I was thinking about it and no one will give me what my frame is really worth and I just plain love it. I feel more and more attached to it.

    But I'll get a new frame when death makes me part with my SB. These things are addictive.

    Next upgrade will be a Roco Air. Maybe I'll take Am's when he gets himself a TST next year.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    But I'll get a new frame when death makes me part with my SB. These things are addictive.

    Next upgrade will be a Roco Air. Maybe I'll take Am's when he gets himself a TST next year.
    Now that you have said that, you do realize that you bought one of the Switchblades that spontaneously blows up into 20 pieces at the 5 year mark, right???????

    Never fear lotsa good bikes on the market now for all prices. It will be intresting if Titus holds the line on thier price structure for 08...........Pretty tough to sell a lot of EG's priced the same as Turners, Ventanas Intense, Santa Cruz and Ellsworths 6 inch bikes considering where they are made......At least the SuMos were priced aggressively for the consumer and I think they are still one hell of a deal.

    Now will someone tell me if they are gonna sell a Ti EG or not.........RBB just showed me some pic's of some incredible RFX's and I still haven't heard whether I should wait and be patient or not.
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Next upgrade will be a Roco Air. Maybe I'll take Am's when he gets himself a TST next year.
    did you see they are making a Roco air TST next year? That'll be a killer shock!

    I agree with Tiendo- Titus either needs to drop their prices for '08 or offer more color and shock options.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    Now that you have said that, you do realize that you bought one of the Switchblades that spontaneously blows up into 20 pieces at the 5 year mark, right???????

    Never fear lotsa good bikes on the market now for all prices. It will be intresting if Titus holds the line on thier price structure for 08...........

    Yeah, that'd be 2009 for my '04... I'd rather start saving, but it can also be "SuMo'ed" if needed be.

    Agreed with the suggestions to Titus with you and FM.

    Oh, and bring back the all aluminum ML at the price point of 2005/2006... you don't want to leave the table served to Transition, Yeti and Chumba, do you??
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    did you see they are making a Roco air TST next year? That'll be a killer shock!
    Yup... but the SB can't take a piggyback...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Yup... but the SB can't take a piggyback...

    but the 08 Roco without piggyback has a "3-position-lockout"... sounds very RP3 to me

  77. #77
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    With a 29" inseam (I'm about the same), you won't like the standover from the EG all that much. I rode my Motolite yesterday and on some sketchy parts (near endo in a creek crossing), my nuts were really thankful for the really low standover of the ML. Just my 2 cents. Otherwise, the EG is really really sweet. Now, reselling the EG to get a Nomad or an RFX, I don't really see the point.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Agreed with the suggestions to Titus with you and FM.

    Oh, and bring back the all aluminum ML at the price point of 2005/2006... you don't want to leave the table served to Transition, Yeti and Chumba, do you??
    I have to say it but I became a Titus fan because of the Racer-X and their Ti works department..........How I ended up with my first Titus was because the HCR was one of the finest deals around for Ti Hardtails...........I narrowed my search between Litespeed, Merlin, Dean, and Titus and the best price back 6 years ago short of going Chinese/Russian Ti was Titus...........Now that I can afford things a bit better I still hold Titus in High regard with their Ti stuff (EXO. Ti.,etc.) or I would have looked elsewhere long ago. I think you still get a better Ti product then anything coming out of Dean or Litespeed. However, the pricing of their custom stuff has crept up nearing Seven, IF, and Strong.........Once you're at that level of pricing give or take a couple of hundred bucks, its a mute point, so you need to excell beyond the customers expectations to put yourself ahead. The aluminum offerings are still great in design, but when pricing things out, they just don't make any sense (too me that is)..........Motolite vs 575????(500 dollar diff).........Racer-X vs Anthem/Epic(few hundred bucks there).....All the other Equivalent Taiwanese built bikes are cheaper......Please don't say its because of the Carbon Fiber added.......If Ibis can make a full CF bike as well as Scott cycles for the same or lesser amounts (plus isn't Vyatek a composites company??????) then I definately think pricing is it a bit off course.

    I love Titus bicycles and I'm not slamming them, but I am concerned that just on some of their production bikes (ie Aluminum) the pricing is driving a lot of customers away. And this results in a decrease chance for all of us to get parts in the longterm if the company no longer exists...........Theirs my drunken ramblings for the night.
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    I love Titus bicycles and I'm not slamming them, but I am concerned that just on some of their production bikes (ie Aluminum) the pricing is driving a lot of customers away. And this results in a decrease chance for all of us to get parts in the longterm if the company no longer exists...........Theirs my drunken ramblings for the night.
    The drunken rambler has spoken!......Well said.

    Your concern is well founded...it drove this happy/loyal customer to another brand.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    The drunken rambler has spoken!......Well said.

    Your concern is well founded...it drove this happy/loyal customer to another brand.
    From one drunkard to another and to another, I don't think that's unfounded. While I make a decent living, I still would rather spend my dough on biking trips vs. bikes. Of course, I love to have high performing bikes, but it's a reality that my fun isn't founded in what bike I ride insomuch as the stuff we're riding and the crew I'm riding with. On that note, a shout out to the highlife crew, yo!!

    Cheers,
    EB

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    Man!

    Ya'lls drunken ramblings ain't jack $hit! If your gonna go ahead and post drunk, burn it "ALL" down! Like I would. What's even the point if your still a pu$$y even drunk.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    From one drunkard to another and to another, I don't think that's unfounded. While I make a decent living, I still would rather spend my dough on biking trips vs. bikes. Of course, I love to have high performing bikes, but it's a reality that my fun isn't founded in what bike I ride insomuch as the stuff we're riding and the crew I'm riding with. On that note, a shout out to the highlife crew, yo!!

    Cheers,
    EB
    Spoken from the guy with like 15 bikes in his garage....

    J/K... they were all cheap or free anyways, and EBX and CBNX do ride 'em hard.

    I tend to see bikes and biking as almost separate activities. A nice bike won't make me a better rider, but I really enjoy building up and maintaining a super nice ride.. there's nothing like the feeling of perfectly tuned, high-end machinery on the trail. It's like I start thinking "Never mind NASA, all mankinds technical evolution is coming together to create me one baddass MTB!"... we can't cure AIDS or get world peace, but I have an on-the-fly adjustable seatpost!

    Plus every bike teaches me something cool about engineering or how fit/geometry affect actual riding. cool stuff!

    Anyways, it's like cars.... some people love 'em and drop a lot of dough. I just can't see it. Bikes are a lot cheaper, hold their resale value better, and they're a lot more fun.

    words words words... just my .02cc.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM

    I tend to see bikes and biking as almost separate activities. A nice bike won't make me a better rider, but I really enjoy building up and maintaining a super nice ride.. there's nothing like the feeling of perfectly tuned, high-end machinery on the trail. It's like I start thinking "Never mind NASA, all mankinds technical evolution is coming together to create me one baddass MTB!"... we can't cure AIDS or get world peace, but I have an on-the-fly adjustable seatpost!

    Plus every bike teaches me something cool about engineering or how fit/geometry affect actual riding. cool stuff!

    Anyways, it's like cars.... some people love 'em and drop a lot of dough. I just can't see it. Bikes are a lot cheaper, hold their resale value better, and they're a lot more fun.

    words words words... just my .02cc.
    ...one of best posts i've read in months!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    ...one of best posts i've read in months!

    even better than the one I made about drunken posts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Spoken from the guy with like 15 bikes in his garage....

    J/K... they were all cheap or free anyways, and EBX and CBNX do ride 'em hard.
    Well, the "high performing bike" I took to leavenworth with me today had a broken shock bolt and one side was still in the frame linkage and the other side was gone, daddy gone. I thought I just had a worn DU bushing, but upon further investigation (about 3/4 the way up to tres as I pulled over to puke - no kidding) I learned the truth. Of course, I had a spare shock bolt that would work (a remnant of the stinky), but no way of getting the old one out as it was screwed into my linkage plate. So, I gingerly rode down a gnarly, steep and loose FR trail.

    On friday night's urban huckfest/bbq/happy hour, I was wondering why my tire was buzzing my seattube on the big gapper.....maybe I should've taken a look then??

    EB

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    Well, the "high performing bike" I took to leavenworth with me today had a broken shock bolt and one side was still in the frame linkage and the other side was gone, daddy gone. I thought I just had a worn DU bushing, but upon further investigation (about 3/4 the way up to tres as I pulled over to puke - no kidding) I learned the truth. Of course, I had a spare shock bolt that would work (a remnant of the stinky), but no way of getting the old one out as it was screwed into my linkage plate. So, I gingerly rode down a gnarly, steep and loose FR trail.



    I had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago! Except the trail was steeper, and looser...... probably?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago! Except the trail was steeper, and looser...... probably?
    blackagness

    You can be funny...kinda. You should come to the Titus forum and post more often.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  88. #88
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago! Except the trail was steeper, and looser...... probably?
    Cool.....you puked mid-ride too !?!?

    The good thing for my buddies is I ended up being shuttle byotch on the next run.

  89. #89
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    Well, the "high performing bike" I took to leavenworth with me today had a broken shock bolt and one side was still in the frame linkage and the other side was gone, daddy gone.
    Awesome! Was this on the giantus reignolite?

    +1 for the motolite, 6mm shock bolt!
    +1 for turners 3d rocker arms- shortest shock bolts in the biz!

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Awesome! Was this on the giantus reignolite?

    +1 for the motolite, 6mm shock bolt!
    +1 for turners 3d rocker arms- shortest shock bolts in the biz!
    Nah, that was on the Gran Mal (which has a 6mm shock bolt). The reign is tight as can be even after the day in the park. I'm pretty sure it was from my last time off the GLC on Monday..... I came in hot, overshot the tranny and went to flat. I stayed upright, but just barely. The ML would've balled up in the fetal position had it witnessed that kind of an impact! Anyway, it didn't sound good and the impact tweaked my ankles and wrists for a couple of days, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together until today with my mid-puke epiphany.

    Soooooo......at the bbq on Friday, I was hitting a 15 foot gap on it with a broken shock bolt when I thought it was just a messed up DU bushing. YIKES! I'll pull it apart tomorrow night to see what kind of actual damage, if any, I did.

    EB

    P.S. The Stinky and Bear have "3d" rockers as well. The newer ones are straight, but the older ones bend in after the pivot on the seattube.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme
    ...my mid-puke epiphany...
    Sissy.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Sissy.
    No kidding. My tolerance has gone to hell.....there's something with weddings and free drinks.

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    +1 for the motolite, 6mm shock bolt!
    FYI, 6mm front thru bolt and 8mm at the rocker...

    El guapo has M8 X M8...

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    El guapo has M8 X M8...
    ok, now THAT is a reason to upgrade the frame from a Quasi ...

    .... NOT. :^)

    I used to bend rear (M8) bolts quite a bit when I first got the bike, moved to the HD hardware and that problem went away.

    I do have four extra bolts though, two stainless (rust-proof), two "just strong" steel if I'm riding somewhere dry that I think it's going to REALLY stress the linkage out.

  95. #95
    Goin' Down ain't bad!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    long stems are for sissies
    Ahhhhh to each their own. I ride smaller rigs for my XC racing sleds to reduce weight and increase snap while climbing. Quite the opposite for my downhill pigs. I want a high BB height, long wheelbase and even on a large frame I'm running 120mm stem at 6'0" and a 35" sleeve length. However, I ride a real narrow bar (610-630mm) to avoid snaggin' on trees and so I run a longer stem to increase leverage and quicken up the steering input. I sit way behind the seat and never have issues of endo-ing.

    Yeah OK....my buddy tells me I'm strange but I keep telling him I don't like riding a wheel burrow. I guess it really is the difference between a XC jocky and a DH junkie.

    Moral of the story, stay of the smack, it does weird things to ya....
    Last edited by Dropin%Dug; 06-19-2007 at 10:00 PM.
    Dug-da-Goat

    "Oh momma, could this really be the end? To be stuck outside of Mojo with the High Side Blues again!!!"

  96. #96
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    Ahhhhh to each their own. I ride smaller rigs for my XC racing sleds to reduce weight and increase snap while climbing. Quite the opposite for my downhill pigs. I want a high BB height, long wheelbase and even on a large frame I'm running 120mm stem at 6'0" and a 35" sleeve length. However, I ride a real narrow bar (610-630mm) to avoid snaggin' on trees and so I run a longer stem to increase leverage and quicken up the steering input. I sit way behind the seat and never have issues of endo-ing.

    Yeah OK....my buddy tells me I'm strange but I keep telling him I don't like riding a wheel burrow. I guess it really is the difference between a XC jocky and a DH junkie.

    Moral of the story, stay of the smack, it does weird things to ya....

    The narrow bar is what's quiking up your handling. The long stem will only slow it down.

  97. #97
    Goin' Down ain't bad!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    The narrow bar is what's quiking up your handling. The long stem will only slow it down.
    Agreed Blacky...I guess what I was trying to say is he thinks my bars are too short for DH. I told him the reason I ride a narrow bar is to avoid snaggin' trees. He said I lose leverage and control. I countered that that is the reason I ride a long stem. You're right though, the long stem counter acts the quckiness of handling from the short bar.

    It's all personal taste. Having a longish torso and reach I find it more comfortable to have a longer stem. I typically ride 120mm on all my bikes and ride basically a 630mm bar on everything. That way I always feel the same in the cockpit whether its the XC HT or the 6" big hit rig. I've learned not to get my weight up over the front wheel. Sit back and relax.

    Works for me, may not for others....
    Dug-da-Goat

    "Oh momma, could this really be the end? To be stuck outside of Mojo with the High Side Blues again!!!"

  98. #98
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Titus-...QQcmdZViewItem

    you think this is woody's guapo on Ebay????

  99. #99
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    I am guessing yes.

  100. #100
    thats right living legend
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    Wahtever...

    There's gotta be millions upon millions of people riding XS light blue EG's that need to sale.

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