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  1. #301
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    mine with a bos deville on front is at 31.5 centimeters. So about 12.4 inches.

    It is just a pain in the ass to climb with the frame.
    I had to change the way I ride so I wont hit the pedals, bash and cranks in every stone that it is on the floor.
    I ride 170mm crank arms, so I can not reduce even more the crank arms leght.

    Mine as bought back in August, so I think that it as one of the first batch of v.3.
    The people how have phone to on one what as their response?
    And Brant?
    Any European client has tried to complain?

  2. #302
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    Brant?
    Craigstr?
    How's it going?
    ****

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Brant?
    Craigstr?
    How's it going?
    breezy shade

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by komondor View Post
    The people how have phone to on one what as their response?
    And Brant?
    See post #20. So far so good. Have you called them?

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Brant?
    Craigstr?
    How's it going?
    I am not sure what you are asking for.

  6. #306
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    Looks like he is trying to stir the pot.

    Quote Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    I am not sure what you are asking for.
    But thanks for asking Renegade, I'm doing great. I'm running my first half marathon in three weeks and my training is going well. All my hard work in the gym and on the road this fall has paid off, I'm down below 175 lbs and 6.7% bodyfat. I parted out my 2011 Knolly Delirium and did very well on it, my Carbon Rockstar will be here next month and BikerBob is working on my parts order. My wife and I decided to remodel our kitchen this spring and are going to look at appliances today, oh and I got a flu shot yesterday. Anything else you want to know?

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Anything else you want to know?
    Who does your hair?

  8. #308
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    Not much left to worry about.

  9. #309
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    I'm sat with my daughter who says she has tummy ache and won't go to sleep so thought I'd write a few words.
    It's been utterly gutting, recieving the news that this batch of frames had inconsistencies in the bb height. And that coupled with the lack of an update on the geometry shown on the Titus site has upset and discouraged people too.

    We are of course producing the El Guapo frames at the same facility "old" Titus did, that's respected builder Kinesis, in Taiwan. They have always been geometrically on spec, so we were aghast when customers started bringing up issues.

    The good thing is we have new jigging procedures, and also new qc procedures in place to catch a similar occurrence. More time for us in Taiwan. Slightly increased lead times. Better product.
    El Guapo 29 is due to complete any day but won't ship until we've crawled all over it. In all sizes.

    Renegade haunts my dreams and living moments. I strive to do better.
    Thanks for your patience and again, if anyone has a frame out of spec, please contact your reseller. String really is the best way to check.

  10. #310
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    if anyone has a frame out of spec, please contact your reseller.
    my who?
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  11. #311
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    from wherever you bought it.

    brant, you the man. you actually gave us a straight answer when i wanted to check if i had the problem. not sure many companies would have done that, they have too many PR idiots etc between people like you and me the humble customer. this is a +, the kind of thing that handled right builds long term loyalty. the fact it's taken so long to figure out shows what a weird issue this was. and it's far from the worst mistakes made in the industry - it's not like you've got frames snapping and hurting people or anything like that. I still appreciate the value on offer and think it's the best product in class. So i hope you in particular and on-one aren't damaged by this.

    Can you tell me have the current frames in stock at on-one been through the extra QC? i'd really like to know in next few days as I supposedly have one put by but could wait for new batch, if you think that's a good idea? just being selfish here..

    there are probably some things on-one as a company can do better on the customer support side but i'll leave that till this is sorted out

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    I'm sat with my daughter who says she has tummy ache and won't go to sleep so thought I'd write a few words.
    It's been utterly gutting, recieving the news that this batch of frames had inconsistencies in the bb height. And that coupled with the lack of an update on the geometry shown on the Titus site has upset and discouraged people too.

    We are of course producing the El Guapo frames at the same facility "old" Titus did, that's respected builder Kinesis, in Taiwan. They have always been geometrically on spec, so we were aghast when customers started bringing up issues.

    The good thing is we have new jigging procedures, and also new qc procedures in place to catch a similar occurrence. More time for us in Taiwan. Slightly increased lead times. Better product.
    El Guapo 29 is due to complete any day but won't ship until we've crawled all over it. In all sizes.
    Brant thanks sharing that. Although I am not completely satisfied with my EG there are more good than bad so I am going to keep it and I am going to make it work for my application...but I am sure I will still swear every time I clip my pedal when unexpected. The initial shock (from low bbh) has now worn off long ago and I am pretty content with very minor gripe. It's such a great deal on frame that sometimes it makes me wonder if we even have right to complain. I have great job most people would dream of I still find something to complain about it. I think it's human nature. Anyways it's great to see that now there is clear understanding on what official geo spec for EG that is coming out of assembly line. Seems like new Titus is headed in the right direction and I hope past goof up doesn't sway away potential buyers because it's a heck of a deal and awesome riding 6" rig. Ride on...
    sth

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    El Guapo 29 is due to complete any day

    Sir...I say sir....may we see the large...

  14. #314
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  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    I'm sat with my daughter who says she has tummy ache and won't go to sleep so thought I'd write a few words.
    It's been utterly gutting, recieving the news that this batch of frames had inconsistencies in the bb height. And that coupled with the lack of an update on the geometry shown on the Titus site has upset and discouraged people too.

    We are of course producing the El Guapo frames at the same facility "old" Titus did, that's respected builder Kinesis, in Taiwan. They have always been geometrically on spec, so we were aghast when customers started bringing up issues.

    The good thing is we have new jigging procedures, and also new qc procedures in place to catch a similar occurrence. More time for us in Taiwan. Slightly increased lead times. Better product.
    El Guapo 29 is due to complete any day but won't ship until we've crawled all over it. In all sizes.

    Renegade haunts my dreams and living moments. I strive to do better.
    Thanks for your patience and again, if anyone has a frame out of spec, please contact your reseller. String really is the best way to check.
    If my persistence in being a thorn in you butt has had anything to do with you looking into your QC procedures and manufacturing processes, and real change is going to take place, then my presence here has been a success, and everyone benefits, including you and Titus. If anyone here doesn't understand that, then P.M. me, and I will try to explain it to you.
    ****

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    If my persistence in being a thorn in you butt has had anything to do with you looking into your QC procedures and manufacturing processes, and real change is going to take place, then my presence here has been a success, and everyone benefits, including you and Titus. If anyone here doesn't understand that, then P.M. me, and I will try to explain it to you.
    nicely done
    breezy shade

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    Can you tell me have the current frames in stock at on-one been through the extra QC? i'd really like to know in next few days as I supposedly have one put by but could wait for new batch, if you think that's a good idea? just being selfish here..

    there are probably some things on-one as a company can do better on the customer support side but i'll leave that till this is sorted out
    That's what I'd like to know as well. I'm so close to pulling the trigger on one, but I just don't want the frustration that others have experienced in the past.

  18. #318
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    Interesting. Good thing I did not try to wait for v.3 back when I have returned v.2 and got my Nicolai (which was exactly like the published spec down to a mm).

    Which brings the point - that its published spec included such useful measurements like BB drop for a give fork ref length and lower cup stack height, and tons of other precise numbers. And things like BB height given for a stated outer diameter of the wheel etc.

    Why is it so frigging hard for manufacturers to get numbers from their CAD program and publish them EXACTLY. Especially for those relying on online/remote sales.

    Getting reach and stack numbers was an improvement. Now quote low ht edge to axle length used. And all dimensions accurately. Basically a set of numbers that will allow one to make an online tool to compare fits of different frames down to a mm. Should not be too hard.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by komondor View Post
    Mine as bought back in August, so I think that it as one of the first batch of v.3.
    The people how have phone to on one what as their response?
    And Brant?
    Any European client has tried to complain?
    Mine was a V3 purchased on early July last year. I leave in Greece.
    After having pedal strikes myself and after reading this thread I measured mine with the string and send On-One UK the results.
    Proved to be out of specs and now it's on its way back. Little harm done. Glad that there is a problem and it wasn't my riding or a geometry design that I had to live with.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    I will chime in. My V3 EG large has a low BB. Before purchase, I had read that the EG had a low BB and expected more than the average number of pedal strikes. I ordered a crankset with 170mm cranks to mitigate the strikes. And after pedaling the completed bike, I then ordered thinner and narrower pedals. I rode it for 4 months. So many pedal strikes (no surprise now) and bashed up my new XT crank arms in the process.

    For a while I just thought this is how it is. But the bike was crap in the technical sections and I wasn't too thrilled with it from that perspective.

    Thanks to SingleTrackHound for his astute observations and starting this thread. Thanks to him it all started to make sense.

    I think Brant has done us all a service by admitting there was an error and suggesting a fix ("contact OnOne customer service" - which I have done). Some companies could have simply denied it. I have emailed photos and I am currently awaiting a response.

    nhodge makes this point: " i really don't see ON ONE making good on this situation. so far, there seems to be no reason to think so". I can't say that I agree with that. Brant is already making the right noises about a frame swap on this forum and my own experience with OnOne customer service supports Brant's olive branch". I would judge that to be a satisfactory solution.

    As for doctoring the specs on the website? Yes, I think it is cheeky. But think about it from their perspective. They have to do it at some point once they notice the error (or it is brought to their attention). But is it really going to make a huge difference to the bike itself? And then what should be done? I suggest that different people will have differing viewpoints on that one. And perhaps OnOne will have different solutions for different people depending on the individuals view. Brant states "anyone that has an issue should get in touch and we will work on resolutions", indicating a willingness to be flexible. Some have even mentioned that they may keep the bike as is. Personally, for me, I want to change to the correct frame as I do a fair amount of XC with it and find the extremely low BB a nuisance. But I can understand for some people that they might want a refund based on the shift in specs and then move on to another maker.

    OnOne is in damage control mode on this issue. Different companies will have different ways of handling these kinds of crises. But in the end, they will do what they think is right given the circumstances. And it will be a balance between satisfying the customer to the best of their abilities without taking a financial caning. For me, I am willing to give the new frame a go. rob_g_clarkson say this about the new frame "ok... i hit the trails hard yesterday & the difference was noticeable on the first climb... great news... no more smashed pedals!"

    For me, the jury is still out until I get the frame swap done. Yes it is a huge hassle of shifting parts, shipping, loss of personal time, loss of use of the bike, time spent reading this thread. But the milk has been spilled. I will just have to move on. Even Rolls Royce has recalls. It is just part of life. It isn't a perfect world. Some people can never be satisfied though (I'm not suggesting that this is you) and those folks will move on to another frame.

    But in the end, all this mess aside (and perhaps even considering it), the EG is a wicked good deal if it rides like rob_g_clarkson says.

    I couldn't agree more with you!
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    It's damn sure better than the 12.75 with a 180 fork!

    I'm not saying a whole lot about mine since I bought another bike. The EG has been shelved until I decide to keep the new ride or not.

    I would love to swap my 160 float onto the v3 and try it with a "proper travel " fork but right before my v1 broke I bought a brand new set of 1.5 straight steerer uppers for that fork. Hind sight being 20-20 I should have future proofed that fork and swapped it to taper uppers.

    My v3 is a pig with a low dirt-dragging belly right now. I'm still thinking about calling on-one/titus again to see what I can get done but I'm busy hating my new bike right now....and missing my perfect v1
    Ha! I missed this post.. try to put a larger shock for more travel on the V3

    I'm very tempted to pick up one of the botched ones (at discount) and convert the CS to 650B myself.. hmm Large raw 650b

    As for the Fox.. I am over the FIT


    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Interesting. Good thing I did not try to wait for v.3 back when I have returned v.2 and got my Nicolai (which was exactly like the published spec down to a mm).

    Which brings the point - that its published spec included such useful measurements like BB drop for a give fork ref length and lower cup stack height, and tons of other precise numbers. And things like BB height given for a stated outer diameter of the wheel etc.

    Why is it so frigging hard for manufacturers to get numbers from their CAD program and publish them EXACTLY. Especially for those relying on online/remote sales.

    Getting reach and stack numbers was an improvement. Now quote low ht edge to axle length used. And all dimensions accurately. Basically a set of numbers that will allow one to make an online tool to compare fits of different frames down to a mm. Should not be too hard.


    FAX = BBH



    may this be put to rest

  22. #322
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    Ha! I missed this post.. try to put a larger shock for more travel on the V3
    Not sure how that would work?

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Not sure how that would work?
    If the shock mount was pushed forward as suspected, a possible fix would be a longer shock. But it'd be fractions of an inch longer. Not sure if anything other than a custom cut/drilled/ano shaft would be possible.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    If the shock mount was pushed forward as suspected, a possible fix would be a longer shock. But it'd be fractions of an inch longer. Not sure if anything other than a custom cut/drilled/ano shaft would be possible.
    You could get a longer eye-to-eye and shim travel?

    Maybe you could use one of those eccentric mounts? They could do about 3mm, on each end, that should move the wheel down about 15mm static, right? Raise BB 0.3 inch or so? Still not enough to take out 1inch error reported here. Damn, that's a big error..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?-offsetbush3.jpg  


  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    You could get a longer eye-to-eye and shim travel?

    Maybe you could use one of those eccentric mounts? They could do about 3mm, on each end, that should move the wheel down about 15mm static, right? Raise BB 0.3 inch or so? Still not enough to take out 1inch error reported here. Damn, that's a big error..
    Yes but then I loose that nice rockshox hardware and have to run rather small bolts through the shocks.

    I had that about welding up the existing holes on the front shock mount and re-drilling them 10-12mm back. But if I can get the frame replaced I'd rather go that route.

    FWIW I sent an email to info@titusti.com and was told I'll have to get ahold of the engineering dept and then they would handle a return.

    Brant, your engineering right?
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    If the shock mount was pushed forward as suspected, a possible fix would be a longer shock. But it'd be fractions of an inch longer. Not sure if anything other than a custom cut/drilled/ano shaft would be possible.
    If you can't see a diff between your v3 and v1, longer shock wouldn't be worth it.. quarter inch between shock/rocker mount and seat tube isn't much but it'd fit a 8.75 shock, wonder what bbh would be ..

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Not sure how that would work?
    Not sure either, top shock mount position could've been measured and welded too far forward.. If there was extra space between rocker and seat tube it would be visible

  28. #328
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    Not sure either, top shock mount position could've been measured and welded too far forward.. If there was extra space between rocker and seat tube it would be visible
    My theory! mine mine MINE!!!

    Seriously I think this is what happend. After looking at the v1 and v3 it is the only measurment that I can take and get a difference on. But, with the longer TT of the v3 it's hard to nail it down with a tape measure and torpedo level.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    My theory! mine mine MINE!!!

    Seriously I think this is what happend. After looking at the v1 and v3 it is the only measurment that I can take and get a difference on. But, with the longer TT of the v3 it's hard to nail it down with a tape measure and torpedo level.
    To move BB down about say 12mm, axle would be about 24mm higher, that corresponds to about 10mm at the shock, which is what the top tube was stretched, right? So they would have had their jig keyed on the headtube, and forgot to move it back with a longer TT.

    Brant can possibly tell if that is indeed the case, but numbers seem to fit.

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    My theory! mine mine MINE!!!

    Seriously I think this is what happend. After looking at the v1 and v3 it is the only measurment that I can take and get a difference on. But, with the longer TT of the v3 it's hard to nail it down with a tape measure and torpedo level.
    Can do a counter check.. apart from measuring the tiny gap-- take a ref point say the top of your seat tube to the center of the top mounting bolt on both your V1 and V3...

    If it is any forward, this and the increase in tt stretching towards the front would both be factors affecting bbh (or logically I would think).

    If you are onto it-- using a similar ref point method, go check where the lower mount is welded as well.. I suspect if the top is moved, to a certain extent the lower will also have to be in a new position for shock to fit.

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    I suspect if the top is moved, to a certain extent the lower will also have to be in a new position for shock to fit.
    Logical

    I'm thinking the top mount placement is referenced from the front, bottom measured from the back.. so, one or both still could be out until someone checks

    Warp had a good point, earlier in the thread, I'm wondering where HA actually ended up


    8.75, wouldn't that be a neat trick

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post

    If you are onto it-- using a similar ref point method, go check where the lower mount is welded as well.. I suspect if the top is moved, to a certain extent the lower will also have to be in a new position for shock to fit.
    Shock is mounted to the linkage. It rotates to compensate.

    The only thing that bugs me here is that obviously, at some moment in time somebody @Kinesis found the error and fixed it (since properly made frames exist). And nothing happened. Nobody was warned, nothing was recalled.

    (I am following the story as I am also contemplating a Titus frame - my wife's Yeti is very long in the tooth). And I just build up a commuter from On One's Pompino..

    I trust On One will fix the process with Titus, I just wonder when it is all good and safe and figured out.

  33. #333
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    Maybe I can shed a little light on this subject.

    First off, I was initially going to go with the El Guapo 29er. When I saw the first OP on the EG 29er, I was fully intrigued. I ride two 29er's now. After some time, no "real" time frame was announced for the EG 29er, so I moved on and bought an Intense Spider 29er. But, I still wanted an El Guapo, so I decided to look into the 26" model. I came to the Titus sub forum and started reading everything that pertained to it here. What's ironic is that I always bypassed this thread. Go figure. I was talking to a friend of mine who owns the V2 El Guapo and told him I was looking into buying one for myself. First thing he said was, "be careful, the BB on the new version has height issues". So I immediately came back here and read all 14 pages of this thread, and my head is spinning. I'm an educated man, but this BB problem is so far beyond my comprehension, it's mind numbing. I'm glad some of you understand it.

    My next step was to contact Brant, who posts here regularly as you all know. I figured he would be the one to straighten me out. I told him I was interested in the V3 EG but that I had reservations. He replied within 10 minutes of my email with this response, and I quote, "the pre order ones are all good, and spot on specification" end quote.

    So...my mind is somewhat more at ease after reading that. I will continue to follow this thread closely to see what, if anything, changes. The pre order price of $813.00 is so inviting, it's hard not to place my order.
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  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Shock is mounted to the linkage. It rotates to compensate.
    .
    Was working to get my bikeroom up and running earlier on while trying to multitask reading/ posting here.. clearly the circular saw and woodworking was affecting my neural pathway

  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    My theory! mine mine MINE!!!

    Seriously I think this is what happend. After looking at the v1 and v3 it is the only measurment that I can take and get a difference on. But, with the longer TT of the v3 it's hard to nail it down with a tape measure and torpedo level.


    Torpedo your pinky finger between seat tube/shock, if it fits good to go

  36. #336
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    now i want to measure my BBH... =\

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny78 View Post
    now i want to measure my BBH... =\
    Stand with your back to the wall, tie a piece of string to..

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Stand with your back to the wall, tie a piece of string to..
    yup, gonna do...

  39. #339
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    I've been following this thread for quite a while and I'm still not sure whether I have a V2 or V3 EG. Frame serial no. is KB60339039

    Does one measure the BB height to the centre of the crank or to the bottom of the BB?

    Edit: I guess I'll have to measure my BB drop as BB height is tyre and fork dependent.
    Last edited by The Thug; 01-20-2013 at 10:57 AM.

  40. #340
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    Ok, so i finally measured the bbh, and it's about 13".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?-photo.jpg  


  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Thug View Post
    I've been following this thread for quite a while and I'm still not sure whether I have a V2 or V3 EG. Frame serial no. is KB60339039

    Does one measure the BB height to the centre of the crank or to the bottom of the BB?

    Edit: I guess I'll have to measure my BB drop as BB height is tyre and fork dependent.
    Roughly done by stretching a string between the center of the front and rear axles. That string line should roughly go through the center of the BB +/- one or two mm.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny78 View Post
    Ok, so i finally measured the bbh, and it's about 13".
    breezy shade

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny78 View Post
    Ok, so i finally measured the bbh, and it's about 13".
    Not enough information. Measure the drop, and tell what is the fork length, including lower headset stack. But seems kinda low..

  44. #344
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    Looks like my BB drop is spot on (give or take a mm or 2)

    BB height with a RS Lyrik 160mm and Maxxis High Roller 2.35's is 13.2"

  45. #345
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    well bad news for anyone waiting for a correct geo 26er v3! seems they got put on a boat instead of the plane. you can't make this stuff up mid-feb now maybe? this might only matter for pre-orderers or those waiting for replacements like me, though i might have one reserved in UK not sure yet (29ers are delayed also for a different reason, see brant's post in other thread..)

  46. #346
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    From Neil Sutton at Planet X bikes:

    "The replacement frames are currently on the water on the way to us and are due here early March".

    FYI

  47. #347
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    On a slow boat from China?

  48. #348
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    that's going to HK, but you get the idea.




    thanks Barry and Neil for sorting me out with a new frame! Quick Rug Test says BB is about 15mm higher but i'll put headset and fork in later to check before building further. also nice little clips to hold cables on without cable ties? and rocker matches rest of frame

  49. #349
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    Well they aren't coming from China. They are coming from taiwan, the taiwanese get very insulted if you compare them to the chinese especially in terms of craftsmanship and quality. Takes about three weeks to from the time the boat leaves port until it arrives, then customs can be another 1-2 weeks.

  50. #350
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    Is that shipment going to UK or US?

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