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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by oniano View Post
    I'm the guy from STW with a 'complete' El Guapo. I have a BB height of 13.1/13.2 on my medium, with the stock lyrik upgraded to the rc2 DH internals (not that it makes any difference what the internals are AFAIK), hope pro evo 2 on stans flow with the 2.25 smorgasbords. I have a picture on the STW thread - I can't post a link here!
    Is your lyrik 170mm? What is measured A/C height on your fork and what headset are you running?
    sth

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJ View Post
    16mm... did you have the yoke cut and welded?
    No. There was no modification of the chain stay what so ever, bone stock. The bike is built, but i havn't had a chance to take it out yet. As i stated in a prier post, the fork is a 2013 Fox float 34 160 27.5. I measured the atc and it is the same as my other new fork. 2013 Fox float 36.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by doralswheels View Post
    No. There was no modification of the chain stay what so ever, bone stock
    v1 has no where near the clearance for 344mm 27.5 quasi moto + 16mm ...
    Last edited by J:; 10-19-2012 at 07:54 PM.

  4. #104
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    Why didn't you get the 2.3 nev or neo's????

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJ View Post
    Why didn't you get the 2.3 nev or neo's????
    I mounted a 2.3 on the rear, but there wasn't quite enough room, + or - 2mm depending on speed of wheel.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by doralswheels View Post
    I mounted a 2.3 on the rear, but there wasn't quite enough room, + or - 2mm depending on speed of wheel.
    Hmm your Quasi must be smaller than the chart.. Damn.. Think clearance was couple mm back when I measured v1 also (

  7. #107
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    anyone got up to date fork a2c database? found this
    Forks: Complete Axle to Crown Lengths Library
    but it's 4 years old, so no good for current lyrics/revelations..

    about wheel size, i could go ~7mm larger radius rear tyre and have ~7mm clearance, and probably mud problems. can't go any bigger at front (2.35 minion) with my revelation.

    had one idea today: running an angle headset in reverse, maybe +1.5. would jack the front up nicely.. obviously steeper HA, but on v3 it's pretty slack anyway. and longer fork would balance this out a bit. not sure what would do to handling, would slacken seat angle. anyone tried this?

  8. #108
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    I wouldnt reverse the slackset and change the headangle for that measly change in a couple mm bb height...

    If really desperate and $$ is not an issue, an eccentric bb would raise things up a bit.. Not saying its really worth the effort but... justsome ideas

    Eccentric shock mounting hardware for shock will also change bbh a tiny bit but again kinda complicating too many things overall.

    Mounting the tallest big vol tire that can be found would be the fastest and easiest bbh gain imo.

  9. #109
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    Hope Raising bb height?

    Hi El Guapos

    I built up a EG v3 with a 150m Rev. and a Cane Creek 40 lower cup and suffering from pedal-ground/roots/rocks contact (13.2 inch bb height, front shock mounting).

    To raise bb height: What's the highest EG-suitable tyre on the market? Thinking of trying out Rubber Queen 2.4 Other suggestions? Currently running Nobby Nics in 2.25

    To the Titus guys: Any chance there will be some alternative option to raise bb height?

    Other than that an awesome bike

    Anatol
    Last edited by anatolb; 10-23-2012 at 05:42 AM. Reason: clarification

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by anatolb View Post
    Hi El Guapos

    I built up a EG v3 with a 150m Rev. and a Cane Creek 40 lower cup and suffering from pedal-ground/roots/rocks contact (13.2 inch bb height, front shock mounting).
    Baffling...

    Another person with 0.5" bottom taller bottom bracket height than mine? And yet I am running 15mm taller fork. I am starting to believe that there are different bottom bracket height for EG V.3
    sth

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by anatolb View Post
    Hi El Guapos

    I built up a EG v3 with a 150m Rev. and a Cane Creek 40 lower cup and suffering from pedal-ground/roots/rocks contact (13.2 inch bb height, front shock mounting).

    To raise bb height: What's the highest EG-suitable tyre on the market? Thinking of trying out Rubber Queen 2.4 Other suggestions? Currently running Nobby Nics in 2.25

    To the Titus guys: Any chance there will be some alternative option to raise bb height?

    Other than that an awesome bike

    Anatol
    I am running a 2.4 Rubber Queen/Trail King on my V2 with 150mm Sektor fork and it has definitely helped raise the BB a little. I may try a 650b front wheel to get a little bit extra.

  12. #112
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    Any update SingleTrackHound?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  13. #113
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    Just measured mine yesterday (V3 medium).
    I have a skackset with -1 deg. The fork is a Marzocchi 170 55CR with 556mm A2C.
    The BB height is 324mm (12.75'').
    I lowered the fork to 140 travel and measured again. Now the BB height was 309mm (12.16'').
    So apparently I gain 3.75mm in BB height for every 10mm of fork height...

    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?
    Can anyone do the math?

    Has anyone have a 556 A2C fork with external cup headset to measure his BB height?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?
    Can anyone do the math?

    Has anyone have a 556 A2C fork with external cup headset to measure his BB height?
    That would be same bike setup as mine except 10-15mm taller A/C fork so between 12.9"~13.0" BBH.
    sth

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    That would be same bike setup as mine except 10-15mm taller A/C fork so between 12.9"~13.0" BBH.
    Mmm, I don't think it worth the $$$ to throw away the slackset and buy a smoothie for only 6mm.
    If I also change the cranks to 170 it would be 1cm gain but way too expensive changes...
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  16. #116
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    I thought my EG V3 BB was really low but just measured it (Revs, smoothy headset and 2.25 Fat Alberts front & rear) and it's 330mm, so not as bad as some. Changing from 175mm to 170mm cranks, a pair of thin pedals and running at about 25% sag instead of 30% has done a lot to reduce pedal strikes. I still have to avoid rooty climbs though!

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    Baffling...

    Another person with 0.5" bottom taller bottom bracket height than mine? And yet I am running 15mm taller fork. I am starting to believe that there are different bottom bracket height for EG V.3
    yeah. still no word from Brant on this (i was away)? i'll have to email him about this, was hoping not to have to..

  18. #118
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    I was hoping Brent will further chime in after he asked some questions regarding bike's geo measurement in the beginning but he has quietly stayed out of it ever since. It just sux that some of us have received EG V.3 with 0.5" lower bottom bracket height than majority. That being said I still love the bike but I would not have bought the frame had I known what I know now.
    sth

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    I was hoping Brent will further chime in after he asked some questions regarding bike's geo measurement in the beginning but he has quietly stayed out of it ever since. It just sux that some of us have received EG V.3 with 0.5" lower bottom bracket height than majority. That being said I still love the bike but I would not have bought the frame had I known what I know now.
    I guess correcting a BB height as specified, but not delivered, is not as easy to fix as correcting an insufficient head tube ream depth. The Titus staff is acting as they historically do....not.
    Craigstr, you seem to speak on their behalf. Care to earn your cheerleader kick-back?
    ****

  20. #120
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    the silence is deafening. i was happy to say hey, i like the bike (i do), but really on-one should come clean, step up and offer say anyone with bb under 13" a replacement frame if they want one? i'm guessing half the owners (probably more!) won't bother to take theirs apart or like the advantages of really low bb.

    or at least tell us we're measuring it wrong (could go badly like the old Apple's "you're holding it wrong".. ;P )

    could it be too short seatstays btw? mine are 437mm from rocker pivot centre to rear axle centre.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-08-2012 at 02:25 AM.

  21. #121
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    is shiggy no longer the us titus rep?

    lol, craigstr is for positive spin, i mean stoke. he's a wannabe industry guy, what does he really have to do with titus? i doubt he has much to say other than to downplay this. brant's silence is dissapointing and surprising as he was never like this in the past

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    is shiggy no longer the us titus rep?
    He had an interesting new tire I saw several months ago, then never saw/heard anything about it. This must be what happened?

  23. #123
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    Slightly puzzled.

    If someone has an issue with their frame being "out of spec" then they should contact us for confirmation/return/checking.

    To clarify, BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    is shiggy no longer the us titus rep?
    Shiggy is no longer employed by Planet X.

    We wish him well in his future ventures, and thank him for what he has brought to our business.

  25. #125
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    thanks for posting again Brant.

    to be sure i've understood: with said fork, if you run a line from front to rear axle, the bb centre should be on that line? how far above or below would you consider to be "out of spec"?
    and to make this easier for some of us to check, could you please confirm what bb drop should be with a Revelation 150mm (and say same 15mm cup)?

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    thanks for posting again Brant.

    to be sure i've understood: with said fork, if you run a line from front to rear axle, the bb centre should be on that line?
    that is correct
    how far above or below would you consider to be "out of spec"?
    I'd think more than 1/4in would be questionable, but you do need to measure accurately before getting too concerned.

    and to make this easier for some of us to check, could you please confirm what bb drop should be with a Revelation 150mm (and say same 15mm cup)?
    A Revelation 150 is 528mm long. So 12mm shorter. I would imagine that this would drop the BB around 1/3rd of that value so 4mm drop below centre.

  27. #127
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    thanks Brant. when i get a chance i'm gonna rig something up with axles and sprit levels and such. and take some photos. should be fun

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    thanks Brant. when i get a chance i'm gonna rig something up with axles and sprit levels and such. and take some photos. should be fun
    you really only need a bit of string.

  29. #129
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    you're right that was quite easy.
    i seem to have a bb drop of 22mm.
    or 22-4 = 18mm or nearly 3/4" below what it should be?
    this is quick n' dirty, I will check everything and take photos etc later, don't do anything yet!

  30. #130
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    So Brant,
    in order to check if I am "out of specs" what do I have to do?
    I don't think it is possible for me to change the headset with the one used for your measurements and also find the appropriate fork...

    Can you tell me how this looks?

    It is a V3 medium.
    I have a on-one skackset with -1 deg. The fork is a Marzocchi 170 55CR with 556mm A2C.
    The BB height is 324mm (12.75'').

    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?

    Thanks in advance.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    you're right that was quite easy.
    i seem to have a bb drop of 22mm.
    or 22-4 = 18mm or nearly 3/4" below what it should be?
    this is quick n' dirty, I will check everything and take photos etc later, don't do anything yet!
    Then your frame sounds like it could be out of spec, so you should contact our returns department for further direction. I'm not going to handle this all here, as there are people within our company far better equipped to ensure things run smoothly.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    So Brant,
    in order to check if I am "out of specs" what do I have to do?
    I don't think it is possible for me to change the headset with the one used for your measurements and also find the appropriate fork...

    Can you tell me how this looks?

    It is a V3 medium.
    I have a on-one skackset with -1 deg. The fork is a Marzocchi 170 55CR with 556mm A2C.
    The BB height is 324mm (12.75'').

    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?

    Thanks in advance.
    George - BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.

    There is no point in discussing "BB height" as it's all about "BB Drop".

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    George - BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.

    There is no point in discussing "BB height" as it's all about "BB Drop".
    Aren't they relevant? OK, it is a different way of saying the same thing, but the result is the same. Our problem is the same. The BB height. We just talking of two ways to measure it.

    Anyway, so I have to do what? Take a string from wheel center to wheel center and measure the BB's center drop? What would be out of specs?
    Is there a way to calculate my BB drop?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  34. #134
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    thanks Brant, i don't expect you to handle everything, just wanted to be clear we had a problem! and it seems we do have a problem. your bb drop method is much clearer than what we were doing thanks for that.

    George, i just pulled a string tight between rear skewer end and across front maxle, taped in place, checked both are central on axles, and measured distance from bb centre.
    you could in theory do it with trig but the maths is hard (for most people).

    what i would do is take the difference in fork length between Brant's reference fork and yours, then adjust the string end point by this, then measure bb drop as normal. not perfect but good enough to see if you have a problem?

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    Aren't they relevant? OK, it is a different way of saying the same thing, but the result is the same. Our problem is the same. The BB height. We just talking of two ways to measure it.

    Anyway, so I have to do what? Take a string from wheel center to wheel center and measure the BB's center drop? What would be out of specs?
    Is there a way to calculate my BB drop?
    BB height isn't relavent, as it's dependant on front and rear wheel size and tyre diameter.
    Measuring between centres is the most accurate way.

    You don't CALCULATE your BB drop, you MEASURE it. With some string and ruler.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    BB height isn't relavent, as it's dependant on front and rear wheel size and tyre diameter.
    Measuring between centres is the most accurate way.

    You don't CALCULATE your BB drop, you MEASURE it. With some string and ruler.
    OK Brant.... no need to argue... I don't have a problem to do it. I thought it could be done by calculating the numbers. Sorry...
    Can you tell me the "in spec" number?
    Either way I will measure it during the weekend.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    OK Brant.... no need to argue... I don't have a problem to do it. I thought it could be done by calculating the numbers. Sorry...
    Can you tell me the "in spec" number?
    Either way I will measure it during the weekend.
    The BB should lie on the wheel centreline when the fork is 540mm with a 15mm headset cup.
    For your case, I would say it should be on centre with your longer, slacker fork, but with shallow headset.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    The BB should lie on the wheel centreline when the fork is 540mm with a 15mm headset cup.
    For your case, I would say it should be on centre with your longer, slacker fork, but with shallow headset.
    I'll get back with the measurement.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    To clarify, BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.
    Below is my BB drop reported back ion 1st page of this thread, post #10. With 540mm A/C fork, 15mm external cup lower headset, and shocker linkage in lower position. So how much am I off by, meaning out of spec by how much? Hate to take my bike part apart but if it is out of spec by a lot, I may just have to.

    "It measured around ~18-20mm. This one was little tough to measure accurately due to parallax error that I had to content with."
    sth

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    The BB should lie on the wheel centreline when the fork is 540mm with a 15mm headset cup.
    For your case, I would say it should be on centre with your longer, slacker fork, but with shallow headset.
    brant, i think a quick drawing would clear things up for people here and get rid of a lot of the repeated questions. obviously there is a spec issue on some of the frames and for it to affect the bb drop that much something must have been off jig-wise during fabrication. not a big deal i imagine as i do believe you warranty department will sort people out.

    but to keep from having the questions about numbers repeated, a drawing or a link to one would help people to figure out if they have issues and then they can move forward from there.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    Below is my BB drop reported back ion 1st page of this thread, post #10. With 540mm A/C fork, 15mm external cup lower headset, and shocker linkage in lower position. So how much am I off by, meaning out of spec by how much? Hate to take my bike part apart but if it is out of spec by a lot, I may just have to.

    "It measured around ~18-20mm. This one was little tough to measure accurately due to parallax error that I had to content with."
    Yes - your BB sounds to be too low and you should contact our returns department to discuss if you're unhappy.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    brant, i think a quick drawing would clear things up for people here and get rid of a lot of the repeated questions.
    Come on, guys...

    Simply, if you have a perfect side shot of your bike, draw a line from center of rear wheel axle to front wheel axle.

    The center (middle) of the BB hole or bolt should line up with this line. A normal BB Hollowtech axle is 24mm. If the whole axle hole is below the line you drew, your BB is good for plowing fields with your pedals, that would mean a BB drop of 12mm.

    Seriously, it's not that hard to figure.
    Check my Site

  43. #143
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    tbf, just about every mtb magazine talks about bb height. and today is first i've heard EG should have 0 drop!

    here's a quick diagram i found for bb drop:



    i'm sort of worried i might not like a correct frame as much! would like to try, will have to find someone with one first i guess... it's going to make a big difference if going up 3/4 ".

  44. #144
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    10-12mm drop, bummer.

    Edit* and this is with a 180mm fork with a 559mm axle to crown. Real bummer for those with a 160mm fork
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  45. #145
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    can anyone "beat" (go lower than) this then? or spot what i'm doing wrong?
    the bike is upside down but all suspension is aired up, no real slop in pivots etc



    for ****s and giggles, i checked with the string how long the fork would have to be to produce 0 drop...
    7cm longer

    looking at it now, i think the rear dropouts are cut wrong, way too high (low in this pic) ?

  46. #146
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    ^^^^^ WTF? that's messed up.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  47. #147
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    El Guapo Size L
    Revelation 150mm
    12mm external Cup

    I measured 15mm BB drop. Picture with lower and upper rocker position in my album.

    @Smiff: As far as I can see my dropouts look the same, there is a picture of my dropouts in my album as well (am not yet allowed to post pics/links )

    @Brant: Would be interesting to know what causes this out-of-spec bb drop. Can you let us know if you find out?

    @all: What other bike models with a similar field of application have a similar bb drop as we see here?

    Cheers,
    Anatol

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    could it be too short seatstays btw? mine are 437mm from rocker pivot centre to rear axle centre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    looking at it now, i think the rear dropouts are cut wrong, way too high (low in this pic) ?
    SS = hair over 17 1/8"

    measured "on the one"

  49. #149
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    could it be too short seatstays btw? mine are 437mm from rocker pivot centre to rear axle centre.
    spec is 438.1 +2.0/-0.0

    seatstay pivot to seatstay pivot dimension should be 408mm (+/-0.5mm)

  50. #150
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    4,352

    For comparison

    V2 El Guapo, 546mm Flox 36 RLC & Cane Creek 40 (12mm stack). Looks maybe 3-4mm above center. Anatol asked what other bikes have this type of drop. The Specialized Stumpy EVO is supposed to have a 4mm drop, 335 BB height:
    Specialized Bicycle Components
    In regards to Anatol's bike, he has a 15mm drop with a RS Rev 150, I couldn't find the A2C of the Rev 150 but I imagine its somewhere in the 530-535mm range? That would put his frame pretty close to spec, I also noticed his is a large and Terrible's and Smiff's are mediums, I wonder if this is limited to mediums? Anyone getting low BB's with small or large frames?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?-p1040991.jpg  


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