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  1. #201
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    I'm guessing shallow counterbore for upper headset on V2?

  2. #202
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    you're 1/3 right. the head angle & BB height was changed w/o notice ending up way off of website listed geo.
    breezy shade

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    sorry guys no need to argue. looks like i'll hopefully be having a replacement and there aren't so many people affected anyway.. all good news for on-one, and their customers too.
    i'm not upset about this btw, just wanted to understand better before going through a return, building a new bike etc.
    horrible weather for riding in the UK right now anyway so a good time to do this. thanks all.
    hello mate...

    just reading the long thread about the low BB on the titus el guapo...

    i too have an EG with, what i consider, the wrong height BB. According to the Titus website says it should be 24.5cm, mine is 22.5cm....

    Just wondering if you managed to get a new frame from On-one without any hassle, or what (if any) hoops you had to jump through?

    cheers
    rob (rob_g_clarkson AT yahoo DOT com)

  4. #204
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    on-one haven't got back to me yet, i thought they would but i'll have to chase them next week.

    interesting to me the bb drop we have is what the 29er will have, on a 29er the axles are (i guess) 1.5 inches higher so that's ok!

    your 2cm approx 3/4" out matches what me and a few others have found btw... i'm thinking i was right the first time about this.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post


    so i was riding my super low EG today, having a good time, sliding around in mud and not falling over, and remembered this pic from Deerhill.

    if you Brant, just did this piece with dropout 3/4" lower, you'd solve this cheaper than replacing whole frames? steeper seat and head angles but that's ok, they're slack enough? hell you'd probably get some of us buying it just to try (easier than rebuilding whole bike). I dunno if that can be done from same casting or however it's machined down?

    downsides: still no 650b, for those who care (i don't). to fit that you'd also need a new chainstay piece to get tyre clearance. and i've no idea about the economics.

    just a thought. wish i had a machine shop and all the toys you need.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-25-2012 at 04:42 PM.

  6. #206
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    I think I may have found the issue. Between my two eg' frames the V3 has the shock mount at the frame quite a bit farther forward vs the v1.

    The gap between the chain stay loop on the v1 is quite a bit tighter than on the v3. My best guess is when the top tube was lengthend the shock mount wasn't mooved back far enough.

    Am I right?
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  7. #207
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    if you pushed the shock mount back the seatstays wouldn't fit around the seatube?
    'gap between chainstay loop'? do you mean seatstay?
    sounds like you're on right track. this hurts my brain.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-25-2012 at 05:27 PM.

  8. #208
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    unnecessary rant... retracted
    Last edited by rob_g_clarkson; 11-26-2012 at 04:46 AM.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    I think I may have found the issue. Between my two eg' frames the V3 has the shock mount at the frame quite a bit farther forward vs the v1.

    The gap between the seatstay loop on the v1 is quite a bit tighter than on the v3. My best guess is when the top tube was lengthend the shock mount wasn't mooved back far enough.

    Am I right?
    I was thinking the same but no one has said anything, you would know with both versions. Measure i2i with v3 loop moved same distance to the seat tube as v1.. With bigger shock what you have like 7" travel now???
    Last edited by J:; 11-25-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  10. #210
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    building my 2012 El Guapo (is it V3?) using RS Lyrik RL2C, my BB height is 13"
    I'll post the pict & detailed component right after it fully completed

  11. #211
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    'gap between chainstay loop'? do you mean seatstay?
    yeah brain fart, meant seatstay loop.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    I think I may have found the issue. Between my two eg' frames the V3 has the shock mount at the frame quite a bit farther forward vs the v1.

    The gap between the chain stay loop on the v1 is quite a bit tighter than on the v3. My best guess is when the top tube was lengthend the shock mount wasn't mooved back far enough.

    Am I right?
    I dunno. But I think moving the shock mount alone would give you also slacker angles, including the seat tube one.
    Check my Site

  13. #213
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    just spoke to on one, got to say they were very helpful indeed... there's a new batch of frames due in shortly and they're gonna take a look things and try to get to the bottom of it...

    can't really say fairer than that...

  14. #214
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    Guys, here's mine...



    This is how I measured:




    I got a Marzocchi cr switch 170-130 556mm long and a -1 slackset...
    I got a 12mm drop. With a "normal" headset with 15mm ext. cup I should have a 5.33mm rise(!) since my fork is 16mm longer than the one used for the measurement by Brant. My difference is the slackset which I don't know how long it lowers the bb....

    Can anyone tell me if I am out off specks and which number should be the correct one?
    Last edited by George Gr; 11-30-2012 at 12:59 AM.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  15. #215
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    still no new stock with on-one yet....

  16. #216
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    i have placed an order 2 weeks ago.
    they said it will be here in early Jan

  17. #217
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydesg View Post
    i have placed an order 2 weeks ago.
    they said it will be here in early Jan
    I just pre-order my frame. And i got an email today, on-one sale says that:"the stock is not due to arrive until mid-late January."

    So I hope that I get my frame in February...

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hösö View Post
    I just pre-order my frame. And i got an email today, on-one sale says that:"the stock is not due to arrive until mid-late January."

    So I hope that I get my frame in February...
    oh my, at first it was early Jan.

  19. #219
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    expect the worst hope for the best.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  20. #220
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydesg View Post
    oh my, at first it was early Jan.

    Nope, first was early December...

    Oh well..

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hösö View Post
    Nope, first was early December...

    Oh well..
    my Q is, what have you ordered? an El Guapo?, V4.0? if so, what are they telling ya the geometry is? surely, they're not shipping out the same V3 fiasco, or are they?
    breezy shade

  22. #222
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    Jeah, i order EG. Dunno about the version... Versio 3.5?

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    my Q is, what have you ordered? an El Guapo?, V4.0? if so, what are they telling ya the geometry is? surely, they're not shipping out the same V3 fiasco, or are they?
    Hope they are not.

    I was told on 30 Nov that if I ordered on that day, I could get the frame in Mid Dec.
    But when I ordered, they told me it needed another 6 weeks, which puts it to mid-Jan.

    Hope they are able to ship the frame to me in Jan.


  24. #224
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    Ive got lower bb than expected too, but I like it this way. Very stable and controlled ride everywhere, just need to get used to it. Now, if I pump a bit more pressure in my shock to raise bb when on the bike I feel myself very uncomfortable even on plain asphalt, low bb works fine for me :P

  25. #225
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    Can't get the new polished frame EG out of my mind. I read through the thread so I hope I didn't miss this but...does anyone have confirmation that this next round of frames will have the BB issue corrected?

    Also, did I read somewhere that the BB drop was designed to be 0, or in line with the axles?

    Thanks for any assistance.

  26. #226
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    this is my EG,



    the line just off 1-2 mm from the center of BB, my BB height is 13.1 in
    I think I'm just lucky or On One has done something to fix this issue? ordered the frame this October

  27. #227
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    spoke to On One yesterday who told me the new stock has arrived, they assured me that all previous issues have been resolved and have offered me a swap for a new frame.... you really can't beat customer service like that... i'm very happy

    going to see them on the 24th of this month (christmas eve )

    they're swapping all the parts over for me too, even though it was a self build... i guess it helps that i'm only round the corner from them...

  28. #228
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    Good job!

    Doublethumbsup!


    Damn, I cant wait to get my EG...
    Last edited by Hösö; 12-29-2012 at 04:45 PM.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_g_clarkson View Post
    spoke to On One yesterday who told me the new stock has arrived, they assured me that all previous issues have been resolved and have offered me a swap for a new frame.... you really can't beat customer service like that... i'm very happy

    going to see them on the 24th of this month (christmas eve )

    they're swapping all the parts over for me too, even though it was a self build... i guess it helps that i'm only round the corner from them...


    right, i might have to call them. though i'm not so close, but am ok to do the swap myself. btw what other issues were there? i alternate between liking the bb (on a good day) and hating it (on a day i pedal strike badly), but mostly i think i want to ride a correct frame, or i'll never know what it's meant to be like!

    guy above got black rocker? nice. i'd never run those thick pedals on mine, would catch on everything eh.
    Last edited by Smiff; 12-18-2012 at 05:59 AM.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    my Q is, what have you ordered? an El Guapo?, V4.0? if so, what are they telling ya the geometry is? surely, they're not shipping out the same V3 fiasco, or are they?
    There's no V4.0. Just correct and in specs V3.0!
    Mine is out off specs too. Waiting for new stock to send it back....
    I have to pay again for swapping the parts... Also bye-bye to 3M heli tape....
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_g_clarkson View Post
    spoke to On One yesterday who told me the new stock has arrived, they assured me that all previous issues have been resolved and have offered me a swap for a new frame.... you really can't beat customer service like that... i'm very happy

    going to see them on the 24th of this month (christmas eve )

    they're swapping all the parts over for me too, even though it was a self build... i guess it helps that i'm only round the corner from them...
    Im about to buy a new 26 frame and I was thinking about the EG....but all this BB height problems make me quite worried...How could I know that Im ordering a corrected new frame or I will get a bad one?..
    I need a small frame..and they are they are stock in orange , raw and white..but are they the good ones?

  32. #232
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    medium was the only size affected.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_g_clarkson View Post
    spoke to On One yesterday who told me the new stock has arrived, they assured me that all previous issues have been resolved and have offered me a swap for a new frame.... you really can't beat customer service like that... i'm very happy

    going to see them on the 24th of this month (christmas eve )

    they're swapping all the parts over for me too, even though it was a self build... i guess it helps that i'm only round the corner from them...
    Will be waiting to hear how it compares with correct BBH before I call them to swap my frame.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    guy above got black rocker? nice. i'd never run those thick pedals on mine, would catch on everything eh.
    I think you talk about my EG
    actually I got raw rocker, and painted black

    Once again, I got lucky rarely have pedal smuck on my first ride last week

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    medium was the only size affected.
    No, I have a L frame with too low BB. Waiting for replacement by On-One.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    right, i might have to call them. though i'm not so close, but am ok to do the swap myself. btw what other issues were there? i alternate between liking the bb (on a good day) and hating it (on a day i pedal strike badly), but mostly i think i want to ride a correct frame, or i'll never know what it's meant to be like!

    guy above got black rocker? nice. i'd never run those thick pedals on mine, would catch on everything eh.
    by "issues" i meant the multiple BB issues that are out there, not multiple issues with the frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Jingleman View Post
    Im about to buy a new 26 frame and I was thinking about the EG....but all this BB height problems make me quite worried...How could I know that Im ordering a corrected new frame or I will get a bad one?..
    I need a small frame..and they are they are stock in orange , raw and white..but are they the good ones?
    get on the phone and talk to on one i suggest

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_g_clarkson View Post
    spoke to On One yesterday who told me the new stock has arrived, they assured me that all previous issues have been resolved and have offered me a swap for a new frame.... you really can't beat customer service like that... i'm very happy

    going to see them on the 24th of this month (christmas eve )

    they're swapping all the parts over for me too, even though it was a self build... i guess it helps that i'm only round the corner from them...
    Everything OK Rob? I was in yesterday and was sure your bike was still in Neil's workshop.
    Neil confirmed the BB is bang on spec with the new frame.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Everything OK Rob? I was in yesterday and was sure your bike was still in Neil's workshop.
    Neil confirmed the BB is bang on spec with the new frame.
    i picked my bike up this morning after a night shift, so all i've done is take it home, put it away and gone to bed..

    that said, neil and i both got similar measurements "pre frame swap" and i've no reason to doubt what he says about the "post frame swap" measurements...

    i'm on nights all weekend so it'll be monday afternoon before i get chance to give the bike a thorough once over, and the acid test will be the ride i've got planned for tuesday...

    i've got to say though, a big thanks to everyone at on one, they couldn't have been more helpful or efficient

    EDIT: meant to say, the rocker (is that what it's called?) is now a nice and shiny silver as opposed to a dull/matt colour.... bonus
    Last edited by rob_g_clarkson; 12-29-2012 at 05:19 PM.

  39. #239
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    ok... i hit the trails hard yesterday & the difference was noticeable on the first climb... great news... no more smashed pedals!

    this meant i could (and did):

    run more sag in the CCDBa
    run less HSC & LSC

    totally transformed the bike... and i mean totally... i felt like a new bike all over, which i guess once you have the correct geometry it kind of is....

    so to everyone holding off buying one due to the BB height issue, don't sweat it, the current batch (and i'm sure al future batches) are just spot on...

    and on-one have been a pleasure to deal with... i'm one very happy chappy

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_g_clarkson View Post
    ok... i hit the trails hard yesterday & the difference was noticeable on the first climb... great news... no more smashed pedals!

    this meant i could (and did):

    run more sag in the CCDBa
    run less HSC & LSC

    totally transformed the bike... and i mean totally... i felt like a new bike all over, which i guess once you have the correct geometry it kind of is....

    so to everyone holding off buying one due to the BB height issue, don't sweat it, the current batch (and i'm sure al future batches) are just spot on...

    and on-one have been a pleasure to deal with... i'm one very happy chappy
    Great to hear Rob. Thanks for the update.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_g_clarkson View Post
    ok... i hit the trails hard yesterday & the difference was noticeable on the first climb... great news... no more smashed pedals!

    this meant i could (and did):

    run more sag in the CCDBa
    run less HSC & LSC

    totally transformed the bike... and i mean totally... i felt like a new bike all over, which i guess once you have the correct geometry it kind of is....

    so to everyone holding off buying one due to the BB height issue, don't sweat it, the current batch (and i'm sure al future batches) are just spot on...

    and on-one have been a pleasure to deal with... i'm one very happy chappy
    This is good news. I have been riding the V3 with the low BB for 4 months now. I was continually mystified how this frame could be considered so highly given the number of pedal strikes I experienced on each ride. I have absolutely smashed the 170mm arms on my new XT crankset . I am in the process of negotiating the return of my frame. Hopefully OnOne will provide me the same customer service.

  42. #242
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    dear Rob,

    It's nice to hear you got the new-right frame...can you tell us the BB height now?

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by noufa777 View Post
    dear Rob,

    It's nice to hear you got the new-right frame...can you tell us the BB height now?
    i'll check again tomorrow, haven't actually measured the height yet, i wanted to test what the real world conditions were like... tyres, fork and headset combo's can make a difference (i've learned )... my prime concern was how it rode, and if it rode well the numbers don't matter a huge amount...

    all that said i will get a tape measure and let you know

  44. #244
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    all that said i will get a tape measure and let you know
    It would be appreciated
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  45. #245
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    Neil said it was +/- 1mm from centreline. As per spec.

  46. #246
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    Has anyone got a link to the geometry chart for the El Guapo V3, can't see it on the on one website

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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Neil said it was +/- 1mm from centreline. As per spec.
    the website continues to list BB height on the geometry specs, no mention of centreline . why don't you take a complete bike w/ a 545 a-c fork, common for 160mm, measure the BB height & tell us what it is?
    breezy shade

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    the website continues to list BB height on the geometry specs, no mention of centreline . why don't you take a complete bike w/ a 545 a-c fork, common for 160mm, measure the BB height & tell us what it is?
    Where - I have only sped- read the site, but it says "lowered the BB 5mm to give an on-centre static height,"

    If the BB is on centre, then BB height will be the same as the distance from the ground to the centre of your wheels, with your tyres on.
    Which you can measure in the privacy of your own home.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Where on the geometry & component sizing section I have only sped- read the site, but it says "lowered the BB 5mm to give an on-centre static height,"

    If the BB is on centre, then BB height will be the same as the distance from the ground to the centre of your wheels, with your tyres on.
    Which you can measure in the privacy of your own home.

    i don't have the "new" V3 in the privacy of my home
    breezy shade

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    i don't have the "new" V3 in the privacy of my home
    Me neither.

    But the BB is on wheel centre, and that's fairly easy to measure.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by wors View Post
    Has anyone got a link to the geometry chart for the El Guapo V3, can't see it on the on one website
    I've only got it on the site in kind of nice long hand rambling form.
    I will redo it now.

    Hilariously I've just noticed that our webguy has made an error and actually put up the words "On all models
    under "Advised Fork Length: 150/160mm Rock Shox/Fox"

    Rather than using that as a direction where to place it on the page :-)

    It's all there though:-
    TT: 575mm (S), 595mm (M), 615mm (L)
    ST: 425mm (S), 457mm (M), 493mm (L)
    H/A: 67deg
    S/A: 72.5deg
    Headtube length: 102mm (S), 102mm(M), 118mm (L)
    BB Height = On Centre

    Here are some tire diameters - Maxxis Tire Specs

    Lots more there too.

    Use the "Axle to Tread tallest point mm" dimension.
    So on that page, we've got variation from Maxxis Hard Drive TS 1.95 at 328mm (12.9in), to a Maxxis Ardent 2.4 DH at 344mm (13.5in). A variation of 16mm, over half an inch.

    And thats how high your BB will be with a 160 fork and an external headset cup. On centre. Half the tyre's diameter. The radius. Any change at the front end will vary BB height by about 1/3rd of the change.

    HTH

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Me neither.


    ????not in the privacy of your house or anywhere else?????


    But the BB is on wheel centre, and that's fairly easy to measure.

    hopefully, that is finally true
    breezy shade

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post


    hopefully, that is finally true
    Just to reiterate - as I've consistently said, if anyone has an issue with BB height on their frame, please get in touch with us and we'll work through it with you, replacing and rebuilding as we did for Rob (below).

  54. #254
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    Yeah, i sort of pieced it together from that page but the "On all models
    under "Advised Fork Length: 150/160mm Rock Shox/Fox" did confuse me a bit.

    is the 67 deg HA with 160 forks then? I was planning on sticking my 150mm sektors in.

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by wors View Post
    Yeah, i sort of pieced it together from that page but the "On all models
    under "Advised Fork Length: 150/160mm Rock Shox/Fox" did confuse me a bit.

    is the 67 deg HA with 160 forks then? I was planning on sticking my 150mm sektors in.

    Ahah - some peeps meant Titus Bicycles US - El-Guapo didn't they...

    Um... Oh... Ah...

    Will fix that.

    67 is with 160's yes.

  56. #256
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    okay cheers, 150mm will only make 0.5 difference i would imagine.

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by wors View Post
    okay cheers, 150mm will only make 0.5 difference i would imagine.
    150mm Revs are 529mm long. I've set the headtube at 555mm, which means with a 15mm external headset you're 10mm short. Which will mean about half a degree at the headtube and 3mm at the BB, static.

    Ride height will be even less effected and bottom out pretty similar.

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    spot on, thanks for that.

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Just to reiterate - as I've consistently said, if anyone has an issue with BB height on their frame, please get in touch with us and we'll work through it with you, replacing and rebuilding as we did for Rob (below).
    Hi Brant and Happy New Year! I am waiting a "call" when the new frame is available in order to send mine back.
    For those of us not in the UK (I am in Greece) that are not able to get the free rebuilding service that is generously provided by your company, is there any chance of any kind of refund to compensate the money that I will spend in my LBS in order to transfer the parts? Or I am asking too much?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    Hi Brant and Happy New Year! I am waiting a "call" when the new frame is available in order to send mine back.
    For those of us not in the UK (I am in Greece) that are not able to get the free rebuilding service that is generously provided by your company, is there any chance of any kind of refund to compensate the money that I will spend in my LBS in order to transfer the parts? Or I am asking too much?
    Tell Barry or Alex I said you should get some Merino :-)

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Tell Barry or Alex I said you should get some Merino :-)
    Nice, always helpful Brant! I really can't find anything other than good words to say about On-One here in Greece in forums etc (and I really don't say that because of the merino.... Hahahah. It is the overall positive response I see from you and the other stuff. Keep up the good work.
    So, I tell them you said so. I hope I won't have any problem!
    Some merino is always useful!
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  62. #262
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    MY new Guapo V3's BB measures exactly 13 inch with a 150mm Fox 32 fork, chris king external bottom headset, Rubber Queen 2.4 front tyre and Kenda Excavator 2.35 rear tyre.
    Is this considered the right BB height or within specifications?

    Would getting a 160mm fork increase the BB to 13.5inch?

  63. #263
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    Sounds about right

    Only way to tell is to measure it from axle to axle with a string as seen earlier in this thread.

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydesg View Post
    MY new Guapo V3's BB measures exactly 13 inch with a 150mm Fox 32 fork, chris king external bottom headset, Rubber Queen 2.4 front tyre and Kenda Excavator 2.35 rear tyre.
    Is this considered the right BB height or within specifications?

    Would getting a 160mm fork increase the BB to 13.5inch?
    ================================================== ===============
    no. assumeing your 150mm fork is a 521mm A-C length & the 160mm fork would be 545mm, you'll raise the BB about 5/16", + or -. Brant insists that whatever wheel/tire combo you use, the BB center will be in line w/ the axles. you won't be.
    .
    that's my bet
    breezy shade

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    i'm waiting for a call back tomorrow (only called them today so this is me being slow not on-one!).
    just looked and see 3 med raws in stock so touch wood.. i should be ok for a replacement. brant if you just spoke to Frank thanks for confirming my case.

    is it true that ISCG offset is fixed too? that'd be a bonus but not a big deal for me.


    "150mm Revs are 529mm long. I've set the headtube at 555mm, which means with a 15mm external headset you're 10mm short. Which will mean about half a degree at the headtube and 3mm at the BB, static"
    this is great info, thanks. maybe get it on site too because i know lots of Rev owners wondering this (there is still no cheap 160/170 fork??) think i can cope with 3mm vs the 22mm i've got.

    hmmm anyway hope my new frame is otherwise as well made as my old one because other than this one quite big error i really can't fault the build.
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-08-2013 at 10:49 AM.

  66. #266
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    So, after reading every post in this thread, I'm hoping that if I order a V3 with CCDB air that the BBH issue has been remedied. Single Track Hound is a friend of mine, and we ride similar terrain, so a BBH of 13" would be useless in Gooseberry, Moab, Grand Junction, and our local gnarly trails in the Wasatch. I'm leaning towards a 170 or 180mm fork for increased BBH to 13.5" with 2.4" tires front and rear. Does that sound reasonable, or should I consider a different bike frame?
    Can someone post pics of their V3 build that has a BBH in the 13.5" range? All that talk of BB drop doesn't translate well into trail reality. I'm concerned that if the BBH is less than 13.5" static, than I'll have to run a ton of pressure in the rear shock to avoid chunder plunder. AM rigs should have 6" of PLUSH travel, not harsh travel due to high shock pressures.
    Thanks guys!

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    just pulled my Gaupo apart ready to go back :/ kinda sad. only took 1/2 an hour. what do they do with these returns anyway?

    ^ for the height.. brant says it's meant to be zero drop, meaning the height is just your tyre radius, pretty simple? any 6" travel 26" bike is going to get close to the ground isn't it, maybe if you want lots of clearance you want a different bike, a 29er, a shorter travel, or a shorter wheelbase? i dunno, i think after riding 12.5 i'm going to be fine with anything in the 13-13.5 range.. most of my pedal strikes are glancing but caught some concrete yesterday that nearly took me off. hopefully i'll find out pretty soon, expecting the seat angle or HA to feel different also 'cos don't see how they can get that wrong without affecting other things.

    edit: without.
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-10-2013 at 03:49 PM.

  68. #268
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    All I know is what I like based on the bikes that I've had in the past.
    Trek Fuel EX 8= 13.1"
    Chumba XCL= 13.7"
    Chumba EVO= 14.8"
    I smacked a lot of trail gnar on the Trek, & that only had 4" of travel. The EVO gives lots of clearance, but doesn't corner that well. The XCL feels about perfect for techy ledgy riding. I would be willing to lose some clearance, but certainly not an inch. This bike is going to replace both Chumba's. I need something that can get it done on xc rides to southern Utah AM tech.

    Would 13.25-13.5" be achievable with either a RS Lyik 170 or a Zocchi 55 RC3 to 170 with an external headset?

  69. #269
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    As a side note, what gearing is everyone running on their EG's? I am considering running 26/38 2x10 11-36 cassette. Figured that the higher gearing would keep the shock from bobbing, and potentially dragging cranks as often.

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    that's a good point i'm not sure what chainring size the pivot is designed for. brant?

    i run 36/24, it does bob quite a bit at back but i think that's more to do with my body bobbing than the drivetrain tension? without a brain shock i don't understand how any suspension can avoid this, unless you change to a shock with a firm LSC like fox propedal..

    edit: i was using a Monarch RT3, but this is going off topic a bit.
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-11-2013 at 08:14 AM.

  71. #271
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    Low BB's are the trend

    Look at some of the most popular bikes of late:
    Spec Enduro Evo - 13.75"
    Spec Stumpy Evo- 4mm drop
    (interesting that Specialized uses two different ways of measuring?)
    Blur TRc-13.1"
    Nomad C - 14"
    Ibis Mojo HD 13.8"
    Intense Carbine - 13.25"
    For the most part, lower BB's are just a learning curve, you learn where not to pedal. If I remember correctly my V2 was 0mm drop and it measured around 13.5".

  72. #272
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    Spec Stumpy Evo- 4mm drop
    Mine is around 13 1/8th or so with the stock 2.3 butcher /purg combo on old flow's
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Look at some of the most popular bikes of late:
    Spec Enduro Evo - 13.75"
    Spec Stumpy Evo- 4mm drop
    (interesting that Specialized uses two different ways of measuring?)
    Blur TRc-13.1"
    Nomad C - 14"
    Ibis Mojo HD 13.8"
    Intense Carbine - 13.25"
    For the most part, lower BB's are just a learning curve, you learn where not to pedal. If I remember correctly my V2 was 0mm drop and it measured around 13.5".
    Yes, designed to be low BB's are trendy; ones created by mistake are too low, as is the case here. Please don't confuse, or convolute the two here.
    ****

  74. #274
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    Was I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Yes, designed to be low BB's are trendy; ones created by mistake are too low, as is the case here. Please don't confuse, or convolute the two here.
    No, I don't think so Renegade, I was responding to a recent post about 13-14" bb heights, saying that this is the trend. The V3 with a 4mm drop will be in the low 13's depending on tire and fork. Its obvious you have a beef with Titus and Brant, why dont take care of it personally and not pollute the air we breathe over here.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    No, I don't think so Renegade, I was responding to a recent post about 13-14" bb heights, saying that this is the trend. The V3 with a 4mm drop will be in the low 13's depending on tire and fork. Its obvious you have a beef with Titus and Brant, why dont take care of it personally and not pollute the air we breathe over here.
    consumer forum. it cant be all bag licking fanboi love. you have to take the good and the bad. renegade isn't making up an issue, it happened. why sweep it under the covers? beating a dead horse or not it's a free country and an open forum.

    someone above posted they were glad to see his posts about it. people should know what they're getting into with a company.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Look at some of the most popular bikes of late:
    Spec Enduro Evo - 13.75"
    Spec Stumpy Evo- 4mm drop
    (interesting that Specialized uses two different ways of measuring?)
    Blur TRc-13.1"
    Nomad C - 14"
    Ibis Mojo HD 13.8"
    Intense Carbine - 13.25"
    For the most part, lower BB's are just a learning curve, you learn where not to pedal. If I remember correctly my V2 was 0mm drop and it measured around 13.5".
    i'm not following your logic here. you're listing bikes between 14" & 13.1" as low BB bikes. 14 & 13.8 aren't in the trendy low BB category.
    when we bought the EG last January, the website listed it @ 13.8" BB. if it would have been true, the controversy would not exist.

    you might be happy w/ yours, but that's you. plenty of people aren't looking to adjust riding styles just to avoid constant pedal strikes so they can be satisfied w/ a rediculously low bike.
    i really don't see ON ONE making good on this situation. so far, there seems to be no reason to think so.

    anybody notice lately, as in the last few days, that on the Titus website the BB height has
    been changed from 13.6 down to 13.4? that's w/ a 160 fork, most being 545mm A-C.
    Last edited by nhodge; 01-10-2013 at 09:06 PM.
    breezy shade

  77. #277
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    Yes low BB height are trendy, so I hear, but I dont buy my bike based on trend. I buy bike based on geo numbers I have in mind and type of riding I like to do. We need to compare apple to apple here. Six inch travel to six travel bike not lesser travel or longer travel bike. In my case my EG V3's bbh is around 12.7" or -18mm bb drop with correctly spec'd parts. Had I known this info prior I would be riding different bike now. Point is I was mis led on EG V3 geo number based on info from Titus. It just sux that I didn't find out about it until I had already spent the time and money.
    Last edited by SingleTrackHound; 01-11-2013 at 09:34 AM. Reason: edited to correct bb drop from -8 to -18mm
    sth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    that's a good point i'm not sure what chainring size the pivot is designed for. brant?

    i run 36/24, it does bob quite a bit at back but i think that's more to do with my body bobbing than the drivetrain tension? without a brain shock i don't understand how any suspension can avoid this, unless you change to a shock with a firm LSC like fox propedal..
    What shock are you running? That's partly why I'm leaning towards the CCDB Air (with separate low/high speed compression) but I understand that they recommend running it in the position that results in a lower BB height. Their website lists 13.4" bbh with a 150/160 fork. I guess it also depends on tire size.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post

    anybody notice lately, as in the last few days, that on the Titus website the BB height has
    been changed from 13.6 down to 13.4? that's w/ a 160 fork, most being 545mm A-C.
    It's about time they fix that 13.8 number that used to be on the site........ good, I think they should post the - bottom bracket drop on the chart as well


    Fact is, the geo chart fudging dates back from the old Titus using a lower BB el Guapo..

    Why? secret sauce? Think the 13.8 number was their way of easing Motolite owners to bigger el Guapo back in the day (remember ML BB was something like 14 maybe more?) Pretty sure OG Guapos I have tried had some drop.. V1 has 13.5 BB with 25mm rims (inner), 2.35 Muddy marry w/ tubes, there's drop on the V1, think about this for a minute and the V3 is not far from V1. Anyway, finally a true value is posted on the site
    Last edited by J:; 01-11-2013 at 04:22 AM.

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    New question here.

    Where are the pics

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    i'm not following your logic here. you're listing bikes between 14" & 13.1" as low BB bikes. 14 & 13.8 aren't in the trendy low BB category.
    when we bought the EG last January, the website listed it @ 13.8" BB. if it would have been true, the controversy would not exist.

    you might be happy w/ yours, but that's you. plenty of people aren't looking to adjust riding styles just to avoid constant pedal strikes so they can be satisfied w/ a rediculously low bike.
    i really don't see ON ONE making good on this situation. so far, there seems to be no reason to think so.

    anybody notice lately, as in the last few days, that on the Titus website the BB height has
    been changed from 13.6 down to 13.4? that's w/ a 160 fork, most being 545mm A-C.
    Maybe his brand ambassador tag is confusing him. Consumer forum. People with no vested interest in the brand are going to speak much more clearly when there is an issue, rather than someone who is floating on the periphery of the industry like craigstr. It does suck for people that the specs are off. Onone has been swapping frames but if their own specs are changing during that time I guess some people will still end up with a lower bb than they originally thought. What is the answer for them then? Full refund?

  82. #282
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    Man, I hate to eat crow but Renegade no longer sounds like a crazy man anymore....


    Bikes should not be like a box of chocolate...
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Man, I hate to eat crow but Renegade no longer sounds like a crazy man anymore....

    , that title is for the "Ambassador"

    Bikes should not be like a box of chocolate...
    ====
    breezy shade

  84. #284
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    I know Qbert and Renegade like to jump my case anytime I say something but you too NHodge? Why am I crazy? I would like to know? Brant has repeatedly said that Titus would remedy any frame with a out of spec BB and evidence shows that they have started to do that. They have also updated the outdated specs on the website. I'm sure none of you have ever made a mistake. Flame on boys.

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    btw, has anyone with a small or large got this problem? seems to be only some of the early V3 mediums? is it even only medium raws?

    having to wait in for courier is a kinda PITA, any chance of some free Merino for me too? about to get really cold in the UK..

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    I know Qbert and Renegade like to jump my case anytime I say something but you too NHodge? Why am I crazy? I would like to know? Brant has repeatedly said that Titus would remedy any frame with a out of spec BB and evidence shows that they have started to do that. They have also updated the outdated specs on the website. I'm sure none of you have ever made a mistake. Flame on boys.
    was i refering to you

    you didn't respond to your comment of everything from 14" down to 13.1" being in the low bb category. you recently said the BB was 13.5". checkout the responder's #'s following the OP to this thread

    concerning Brant remedying the stuation, the current plan for us in the U.S is to send the frame to Portland, they'll check it & send the V3 out if they think a persons bike is out of spec. problem w/ that is it's only going to be minimally higher, nowhere near last Jan. '12's
    13.8 spec. you, Brant & On One seem to think that now that the geo.#'s on the Titus site [B]now[B[ say 13.4 BB, problem solved. it only took a year to list #'s that reflect accurately what a V3 w/ a 160mm fork gets ya? one whole year. wow.

    so, either w/ get a new frame & start the learning curve, learn to love it or what? too bad?
    breezy shade

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    ====
    I would not say that. craigstr has been on these boards a long time and personally I value his opinion, regardless of his brand affiliation. He tried to make a point and renegade made a good counter-point.

    People get upset when they expect something and get another. Titus/on-one say they will take care of any issues their customers have, and this is good. However, if you keep having issues like this, that is going to start to bite you in the ass eventually.

    Just my two cents.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    Brant & On One seem to think that now that the geo.#'s on the Titus site [B]now[B[ say 13.4 BB, problem solved. it only took a year to list #'s that reflect accurately what a V3 w/ a 160mm fork gets ya? one whole year. wow.
    Old EGs too, much longer


    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    I would not say that. craigstr has been on these boards a long time and personally I value his opinion, regardless of his brand affiliation. He tried to make a point and renegade made a good counter-point.

    People get upset when they expect something and get another. Titus/on-one say they will take care of any issues their customers have, and this is good. However, if you keep having issues like this, that is going to start to bite you in the ass eventually.

    Just my two cents.

    Good points, New Titus has to clearly advertise the right spec from here out.. have to start new some time

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    btw, has anyone with a small or large got this problem? seems to be only some of the early V3 mediums? is it even only medium raws?

    having to wait in for courier is a kinda PITA, any chance of some free Merino for me too? about to get really cold in the UK..
    Large (Raw)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?-2013-01-11-15.24.32-1.jpg  


  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Man, I hate to eat crow but Renegade no longer sounds like a crazy man anymore....


    Bikes should not be like a box of chocolate...
    Thank you Vespasianus. I may overlook that nasty neg-rep you sent me recently! [ They are no longer anonymous].

    Craig, I am not carrying over my issues with titus/brant here. People have loww bb issues. My 13.8 bb quoted by the website for my 2011 frame became 13.5. As you have read above. I am not the only person qbserving out of spec claims by titus.
    Dude, you are one defensive guy.
    ****

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    No, I don't think so Renegade, I was responding to a recent post about 13-14" bb heights, saying that this is the trend. The V3 with a 4mm drop will be in the low 13's depending on tire and fork. Its obvious you have a beef with Titus and Brant, why dont take care of it personally and not pollute the air we breathe over here.
    My V2 was in the low 13's with big tires and 160 lyrik/
    Better hold your breath. if you don't care for "pollution", cause it's coming from more than a couple sources now. Perhaps you should desensitise yourself, for your own well being. And get use to it, because I will not give in to saying what I think is right because you are THE AMBASSADOR!
    ****

  92. #292
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    I'm sure there are a lot more folks who just read but never comment on the forum.. would be good if more chime in to see how their issues/ concerns have been taken care off. A more objective view. I know a number of people who aren't bothered with the bbh so far and so its never an issue for them but like Vespa said... its important to sell according to what has been spec.

    Trend for low bbh-- imo, will have to take into account the suspension system and see if it all works out as a trail ripping package. I have ridden bikes with lower bbh and get less pedal strikes than my old EG running 13.8". HL squats a fair bit into the travel unlike some of the newer designs.. so it just may not rock everyone's boat.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    I'm sure there are a lot more folks who just read but never comment on the forum.. would be good if more chime in to see how their issues/ concerns have been taken care off. A more objective view. I know a number of people who aren't bothered with the bbh so far and so its never an issue for them but like Vespa said... its important to sell according to what has been spec.

    Trend for low bbh-- imo, will have to take into account the suspension system and see if it all works out as a trail ripping package. I have ridden bikes with lower bbh and get less pedal strikes than my old EG running 13.8". HL squats a fair bit into the travel unlike some of the newer designs.. so it just may not rock everyone's boat.
    I will chime in. My V3 EG large has a low BB. Before purchase, I had read that the EG had a low BB and expected more than the average number of pedal strikes. I ordered a crankset with 170mm cranks to mitigate the strikes. And after pedaling the completed bike, I then ordered thinner and narrower pedals. I rode it for 4 months. So many pedal strikes (no surprise now) and bashed up my new XT crank arms in the process.

    For a while I just thought this is how it is. But the bike was crap in the technical sections and I wasn't too thrilled with it from that perspective.

    Thanks to SingleTrackHound for his astute observations and starting this thread. Thanks to him it all started to make sense.

    I think Brant has done us all a service by admitting there was an error and suggesting a fix ("contact OnOne customer service" - which I have done). Some companies could have simply denied it. I have emailed photos and I am currently awaiting a response.

    nhodge makes this point: " i really don't see ON ONE making good on this situation. so far, there seems to be no reason to think so". I can't say that I agree with that. Brant is already making the right noises about a frame swap on this forum and my own experience with OnOne customer service supports Brant's olive branch". I would judge that to be a satisfactory solution.

    As for doctoring the specs on the website? Yes, I think it is cheeky. But think about it from their perspective. They have to do it at some point once they notice the error (or it is brought to their attention). But is it really going to make a huge difference to the bike itself? And then what should be done? I suggest that different people will have differing viewpoints on that one. And perhaps OnOne will have different solutions for different people depending on the individuals view. Brant states "anyone that has an issue should get in touch and we will work on resolutions", indicating a willingness to be flexible. Some have even mentioned that they may keep the bike as is. Personally, for me, I want to change to the correct frame as I do a fair amount of XC with it and find the extremely low BB a nuisance. But I can understand for some people that they might want a refund based on the shift in specs and then move on to another maker.

    OnOne is in damage control mode on this issue. Different companies will have different ways of handling these kinds of crises. But in the end, they will do what they think is right given the circumstances. And it will be a balance between satisfying the customer to the best of their abilities without taking a financial caning. For me, I am willing to give the new frame a go. rob_g_clarkson say this about the new frame "ok... i hit the trails hard yesterday & the difference was noticeable on the first climb... great news... no more smashed pedals!"

    For me, the jury is still out until I get the frame swap done. Yes it is a huge hassle of shifting parts, shipping, loss of personal time, loss of use of the bike, time spent reading this thread. But the milk has been spilled. I will just have to move on. Even Rolls Royce has recalls. It is just part of life. It isn't a perfect world. Some people can never be satisfied though (I'm not suggesting that this is you) and those folks will move on to another frame.

    But in the end, all this mess aside (and perhaps even considering it), the EG is a wicked good deal if it rides like rob_g_clarkson says.
    Last edited by rottenronny; 01-12-2013 at 01:54 AM.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    As for doctoring the specs on the website? Yes, I think it is cheeky. But think about it from their perspective. They have to do it at some point once they notice the error (or it is brought to their attention). But is it really going to make a huge difference to the bike itself?
    I think those who trade the botched V3 for the proper one will like the intended spec.. 13.4" bbh is an awesome number on this bike w/ 160mm fork.. Very fast bike

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    13.4" bbh is an awesome number on this bike w/ 160mm fork..
    It's damn sure better than the 12.75 with a 180 fork!

    I'm not saying a whole lot about mine since I bought another bike. The EG has been shelved until I decide to keep the new ride or not.

    I would love to swap my 160 float onto the v3 and try it with a "proper travel " fork but right before my v1 broke I bought a brand new set of 1.5 straight steerer uppers for that fork. Hind sight being 20-20 I should have future proofed that fork and swapped it to taper uppers.

    My v3 is a pig with a low dirt-dragging belly right now. I'm still thinking about calling on-one/titus again to see what I can get done but I'm busy hating my new bike right now....and missing my perfect v1
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Thank you Vespasianus. I may overlook that nasty neg-rep you sent me recently! [ They are no longer anonymous].
    Renegade, I said you are not a crazy man, but you still could be an idiot!
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post

    My v3 is a pig with a low dirt-dragging belly right now. I'm still thinking about calling on-one/titus again to see what I can get done but I'm busy hating my new bike right now....and missing my perfect v1
    Do it. Call em.

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    btw Smiff, i'm on a small.... just got verified with brant that my frame is one with the low bb and in process arranging for a replacement

    i with rottenronny view on this, different people have different level of expectation and tolerance to issues... because of this i'm really glad that SingleTrackHound bring this up, Renegade brings attentions to the issue and Brant working out to fix this. All in all what matter to me is the open discussion of the brand in a community like this and the company willingness to fix the issue... otherwise i might not even aware of this... the bike ride very well although pedal strikes happens to me, it also happen to my buddies that it doesn't occur to me that the frame was out of spec.

    despite knowing about this issue through reading about it from day one...only recently do i have time to check on my own frame when i need to fix my crank arm. yea low bbh dint bother me too much but it does sucks and bother me to have a product out of spec, it feels great that the company is taking care of the issue to replace it. despite the issue i had lots of fun on it..and hope it gets better with the replacement.

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    I have a medium black ano frame which i purchased in august, originally intended to put some revs on it but returned them after reading many complaints about low bb. Wonder if on one know what dates these off spec frames were sold between or which sizes/colours were affected?

    I'm waiting to plug an x fusion slant into it which has an a-c of 545mm (some as lyrik/36 @160), and will use a hope external cup F which looks about the same stack height as the on one smoothie mixer. Hopefully this will give me the correct on centre bb height, just need x fusion to shift their arses as i have no way of knowing if my frame is out of spec or not.

    I'm pretty confident on one will sort out an exchange if it is out of spec as i have been impressed with their customer service so far. Will let you know the outcome

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    I'll chime in as well. This thread has both been very informative and entertaining to follow. It seems that the general consensus is that my V3 EG’s bb is “off spec” low (+/-13” RS Lyrik 115-160 U Turn/Kenda Nevegals 2.35/30% sag – don’t much care for 25%/medium frame/On One Smoothie w Ext Cup) but, not as bad as others here, while my Motolite’s bb is too high (14” Fox Talas 32/Kenda Nevegals 2.35/Medium).

    I will have to admit that I enjoy the EG much more than the ML here in SoCal, mostly in the San Gabriel Mountains. While it’s true what everyone raves about the EG’s climbing and descending abilities, at the same time, I also have been experiencing much more pedal strikes on the EG on the technical climbs, aggressive pedaling, and the occasional chain ring hit on some drops. I am still running a triple and it just makes me nervous every time on some sections about getting hung up but, I am now adapting by making a conscious effort to power through and trust that momentum will carry me. I have also changed out my pedals to the ultra thin Canfield Brothers Crampon Ultimates. Although I do not have a lot of seat time with this yet, my initial impressions have been very positive as pedal strikes seem to have diminished quite a bit and have improved pedal clearance by approximately .3” over the DMR Mags.

    With the low bb and the slacker geometry, the EG seems like a "safer" bike than the ML as it resist the temptation to catapult the rider over the bars. I do not want to give up this safety feature and have decided that I like the low bb but, also need to work around the pedal strikes with thinner pedals and maybe bigger tires. I keep thinking that a full lockout on the rear shock would probably have put this issue to rest for me.

    As far as customer service at Titus Oregon goes, I have contacted them a couple of weeks ago to check my options on a potential frame swap. While the person that answered the phone was unaware of this particular issue, he did point me in Brant’s direction. As a business owner in a service industry, I understand that there are times when a product may fall short of expectations and that these are opportunities to remedy the issues and to really connect with the customer. As for the EG, I am still uncertain of its identity. Is it supposed to be the original V3 intended spec or that as a result of some error, and the inability to find a remedy, that the error has now become the intended spec. As it relates to future bike purchases, I will be a bit more skeptical with published specs (I don’t think my seat tube angle is 72.50 degrees). But, for now, the point is somewhat moot as I continue to ride and enjoy my bike.

    I sense that there is not much that Titus can do for me as they are unable to deliver a frame with the original bb spec, and if they could, I am not sure that I will want one. But, for those that have bb’s a lot lower than mine, the corrected 13.4”bb spec will make a world of difference. I hope Titus takes good care of you so that you can continue to rip on the EG.

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