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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by oniano View Post
    I'm the guy from STW with a 'complete' El Guapo. I have a BB height of 13.1/13.2 on my medium, with the stock lyrik upgraded to the rc2 DH internals (not that it makes any difference what the internals are AFAIK), hope pro evo 2 on stans flow with the 2.25 smorgasbords. I have a picture on the STW thread - I can't post a link here!
    Is your lyrik 170mm? What is measured A/C height on your fork and what headset are you running?
    sth

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJ View Post
    16mm... did you have the yoke cut and welded?
    No. There was no modification of the chain stay what so ever, bone stock. The bike is built, but i havn't had a chance to take it out yet. As i stated in a prier post, the fork is a 2013 Fox float 34 160 27.5. I measured the atc and it is the same as my other new fork. 2013 Fox float 36.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by doralswheels View Post
    No. There was no modification of the chain stay what so ever, bone stock
    v1 has no where near the clearance for 344mm 27.5 quasi moto + 16mm ...
    Last edited by J:; 10-19-2012 at 07:54 PM.

  4. #104
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    Why didn't you get the 2.3 nev or neo's????

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJ View Post
    Why didn't you get the 2.3 nev or neo's????
    I mounted a 2.3 on the rear, but there wasn't quite enough room, + or - 2mm depending on speed of wheel.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by doralswheels View Post
    I mounted a 2.3 on the rear, but there wasn't quite enough room, + or - 2mm depending on speed of wheel.
    Hmm your Quasi must be smaller than the chart.. Damn.. Think clearance was couple mm back when I measured v1 also (

  7. #107
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    anyone got up to date fork a2c database? found this
    Forks: Complete Axle to Crown Lengths Library
    but it's 4 years old, so no good for current lyrics/revelations..

    about wheel size, i could go ~7mm larger radius rear tyre and have ~7mm clearance, and probably mud problems. can't go any bigger at front (2.35 minion) with my revelation.

    had one idea today: running an angle headset in reverse, maybe +1.5. would jack the front up nicely.. obviously steeper HA, but on v3 it's pretty slack anyway. and longer fork would balance this out a bit. not sure what would do to handling, would slacken seat angle. anyone tried this?

  8. #108
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    I wouldnt reverse the slackset and change the headangle for that measly change in a couple mm bb height...

    If really desperate and $$ is not an issue, an eccentric bb would raise things up a bit.. Not saying its really worth the effort but... justsome ideas

    Eccentric shock mounting hardware for shock will also change bbh a tiny bit but again kinda complicating too many things overall.

    Mounting the tallest big vol tire that can be found would be the fastest and easiest bbh gain imo.

  9. #109
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    Hope Raising bb height?

    Hi El Guapos

    I built up a EG v3 with a 150m Rev. and a Cane Creek 40 lower cup and suffering from pedal-ground/roots/rocks contact (13.2 inch bb height, front shock mounting).

    To raise bb height: What's the highest EG-suitable tyre on the market? Thinking of trying out Rubber Queen 2.4 Other suggestions? Currently running Nobby Nics in 2.25

    To the Titus guys: Any chance there will be some alternative option to raise bb height?

    Other than that an awesome bike

    Anatol
    Last edited by anatolb; 10-23-2012 at 05:42 AM. Reason: clarification

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by anatolb View Post
    Hi El Guapos

    I built up a EG v3 with a 150m Rev. and a Cane Creek 40 lower cup and suffering from pedal-ground/roots/rocks contact (13.2 inch bb height, front shock mounting).
    Baffling...

    Another person with 0.5" bottom taller bottom bracket height than mine? And yet I am running 15mm taller fork. I am starting to believe that there are different bottom bracket height for EG V.3
    sth

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by anatolb View Post
    Hi El Guapos

    I built up a EG v3 with a 150m Rev. and a Cane Creek 40 lower cup and suffering from pedal-ground/roots/rocks contact (13.2 inch bb height, front shock mounting).

    To raise bb height: What's the highest EG-suitable tyre on the market? Thinking of trying out Rubber Queen 2.4 Other suggestions? Currently running Nobby Nics in 2.25

    To the Titus guys: Any chance there will be some alternative option to raise bb height?

    Other than that an awesome bike

    Anatol
    I am running a 2.4 Rubber Queen/Trail King on my V2 with 150mm Sektor fork and it has definitely helped raise the BB a little. I may try a 650b front wheel to get a little bit extra.

  12. #112
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    Any update SingleTrackHound?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  13. #113
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    Just measured mine yesterday (V3 medium).
    I have a skackset with -1 deg. The fork is a Marzocchi 170 55CR with 556mm A2C.
    The BB height is 324mm (12.75'').
    I lowered the fork to 140 travel and measured again. Now the BB height was 309mm (12.16'').
    So apparently I gain 3.75mm in BB height for every 10mm of fork height...

    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?
    Can anyone do the math?

    Has anyone have a 556 A2C fork with external cup headset to measure his BB height?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?
    Can anyone do the math?

    Has anyone have a 556 A2C fork with external cup headset to measure his BB height?
    That would be same bike setup as mine except 10-15mm taller A/C fork so between 12.9"~13.0" BBH.
    sth

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    That would be same bike setup as mine except 10-15mm taller A/C fork so between 12.9"~13.0" BBH.
    Mmm, I don't think it worth the $$$ to throw away the slackset and buy a smoothie for only 6mm.
    If I also change the cranks to 170 it would be 1cm gain but way too expensive changes...
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  16. #116
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    I thought my EG V3 BB was really low but just measured it (Revs, smoothy headset and 2.25 Fat Alberts front & rear) and it's 330mm, so not as bad as some. Changing from 175mm to 170mm cranks, a pair of thin pedals and running at about 25% sag instead of 30% has done a lot to reduce pedal strikes. I still have to avoid rooty climbs though!

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    Baffling...

    Another person with 0.5" bottom taller bottom bracket height than mine? And yet I am running 15mm taller fork. I am starting to believe that there are different bottom bracket height for EG V.3
    yeah. still no word from Brant on this (i was away)? i'll have to email him about this, was hoping not to have to..

  18. #118
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    I was hoping Brent will further chime in after he asked some questions regarding bike's geo measurement in the beginning but he has quietly stayed out of it ever since. It just sux that some of us have received EG V.3 with 0.5" lower bottom bracket height than majority. That being said I still love the bike but I would not have bought the frame had I known what I know now.
    sth

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    I was hoping Brent will further chime in after he asked some questions regarding bike's geo measurement in the beginning but he has quietly stayed out of it ever since. It just sux that some of us have received EG V.3 with 0.5" lower bottom bracket height than majority. That being said I still love the bike but I would not have bought the frame had I known what I know now.
    I guess correcting a BB height as specified, but not delivered, is not as easy to fix as correcting an insufficient head tube ream depth. The Titus staff is acting as they historically do....not.
    Craigstr, you seem to speak on their behalf. Care to earn your cheerleader kick-back?
    ****

  20. #120
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    the silence is deafening. i was happy to say hey, i like the bike (i do), but really on-one should come clean, step up and offer say anyone with bb under 13" a replacement frame if they want one? i'm guessing half the owners (probably more!) won't bother to take theirs apart or like the advantages of really low bb.

    or at least tell us we're measuring it wrong (could go badly like the old Apple's "you're holding it wrong".. ;P )

    could it be too short seatstays btw? mine are 437mm from rocker pivot centre to rear axle centre.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-08-2012 at 03:25 AM.

  21. #121
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    is shiggy no longer the us titus rep?

    lol, craigstr is for positive spin, i mean stoke. he's a wannabe industry guy, what does he really have to do with titus? i doubt he has much to say other than to downplay this. brant's silence is dissapointing and surprising as he was never like this in the past

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    is shiggy no longer the us titus rep?
    He had an interesting new tire I saw several months ago, then never saw/heard anything about it. This must be what happened?

  23. #123
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    Slightly puzzled.

    If someone has an issue with their frame being "out of spec" then they should contact us for confirmation/return/checking.

    To clarify, BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    is shiggy no longer the us titus rep?
    Shiggy is no longer employed by Planet X.

    We wish him well in his future ventures, and thank him for what he has brought to our business.

  25. #125
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    thanks for posting again Brant.

    to be sure i've understood: with said fork, if you run a line from front to rear axle, the bb centre should be on that line? how far above or below would you consider to be "out of spec"?
    and to make this easier for some of us to check, could you please confirm what bb drop should be with a Revelation 150mm (and say same 15mm cup)?

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    thanks for posting again Brant.

    to be sure i've understood: with said fork, if you run a line from front to rear axle, the bb centre should be on that line?
    that is correct
    how far above or below would you consider to be "out of spec"?
    I'd think more than 1/4in would be questionable, but you do need to measure accurately before getting too concerned.

    and to make this easier for some of us to check, could you please confirm what bb drop should be with a Revelation 150mm (and say same 15mm cup)?
    A Revelation 150 is 528mm long. So 12mm shorter. I would imagine that this would drop the BB around 1/3rd of that value so 4mm drop below centre.

  27. #127
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    thanks Brant. when i get a chance i'm gonna rig something up with axles and sprit levels and such. and take some photos. should be fun

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    thanks Brant. when i get a chance i'm gonna rig something up with axles and sprit levels and such. and take some photos. should be fun
    you really only need a bit of string.

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    you're right that was quite easy.
    i seem to have a bb drop of 22mm.
    or 22-4 = 18mm or nearly 3/4" below what it should be?
    this is quick n' dirty, I will check everything and take photos etc later, don't do anything yet!

  30. #130
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    So Brant,
    in order to check if I am "out of specs" what do I have to do?
    I don't think it is possible for me to change the headset with the one used for your measurements and also find the appropriate fork...

    Can you tell me how this looks?

    It is a V3 medium.
    I have a on-one skackset with -1 deg. The fork is a Marzocchi 170 55CR with 556mm A2C.
    The BB height is 324mm (12.75'').

    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?

    Thanks in advance.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    you're right that was quite easy.
    i seem to have a bb drop of 22mm.
    or 22-4 = 18mm or nearly 3/4" below what it should be?
    this is quick n' dirty, I will check everything and take photos etc later, don't do anything yet!
    Then your frame sounds like it could be out of spec, so you should contact our returns department for further direction. I'm not going to handle this all here, as there are people within our company far better equipped to ensure things run smoothly.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    So Brant,
    in order to check if I am "out of specs" what do I have to do?
    I don't think it is possible for me to change the headset with the one used for your measurements and also find the appropriate fork...

    Can you tell me how this looks?

    It is a V3 medium.
    I have a on-one skackset with -1 deg. The fork is a Marzocchi 170 55CR with 556mm A2C.
    The BB height is 324mm (12.75'').

    If I would remove the slackset and got a smoothie mixer tapered (my fork is 1 /18) with external cup (I think all of the are) what would be the result?

    Thanks in advance.
    George - BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.

    There is no point in discussing "BB height" as it's all about "BB Drop".

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    George - BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.

    There is no point in discussing "BB height" as it's all about "BB Drop".
    Aren't they relevant? OK, it is a different way of saying the same thing, but the result is the same. Our problem is the same. The BB height. We just talking of two ways to measure it.

    Anyway, so I have to do what? Take a string from wheel center to wheel center and measure the BB's center drop? What would be out of specs?
    Is there a way to calculate my BB drop?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  34. #134
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    thanks Brant, i don't expect you to handle everything, just wanted to be clear we had a problem! and it seems we do have a problem. your bb drop method is much clearer than what we were doing thanks for that.

    George, i just pulled a string tight between rear skewer end and across front maxle, taped in place, checked both are central on axles, and measured distance from bb centre.
    you could in theory do it with trig but the maths is hard (for most people).

    what i would do is take the difference in fork length between Brant's reference fork and yours, then adjust the string end point by this, then measure bb drop as normal. not perfect but good enough to see if you have a problem?

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    Aren't they relevant? OK, it is a different way of saying the same thing, but the result is the same. Our problem is the same. The BB height. We just talking of two ways to measure it.

    Anyway, so I have to do what? Take a string from wheel center to wheel center and measure the BB's center drop? What would be out of specs?
    Is there a way to calculate my BB drop?
    BB height isn't relavent, as it's dependant on front and rear wheel size and tyre diameter.
    Measuring between centres is the most accurate way.

    You don't CALCULATE your BB drop, you MEASURE it. With some string and ruler.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    BB height isn't relavent, as it's dependant on front and rear wheel size and tyre diameter.
    Measuring between centres is the most accurate way.

    You don't CALCULATE your BB drop, you MEASURE it. With some string and ruler.
    OK Brant.... no need to argue... I don't have a problem to do it. I thought it could be done by calculating the numbers. Sorry...
    Can you tell me the "in spec" number?
    Either way I will measure it during the weekend.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    OK Brant.... no need to argue... I don't have a problem to do it. I thought it could be done by calculating the numbers. Sorry...
    Can you tell me the "in spec" number?
    Either way I will measure it during the weekend.
    The BB should lie on the wheel centreline when the fork is 540mm with a 15mm headset cup.
    For your case, I would say it should be on centre with your longer, slacker fork, but with shallow headset.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    The BB should lie on the wheel centreline when the fork is 540mm with a 15mm headset cup.
    For your case, I would say it should be on centre with your longer, slacker fork, but with shallow headset.
    I'll get back with the measurement.
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    To clarify, BB is designed to be on wheel centre, with a 540mm fork and a 15mm external cup, with the mount bolted in the lower rocker position.
    Below is my BB drop reported back ion 1st page of this thread, post #10. With 540mm A/C fork, 15mm external cup lower headset, and shocker linkage in lower position. So how much am I off by, meaning out of spec by how much? Hate to take my bike part apart but if it is out of spec by a lot, I may just have to.

    "It measured around ~18-20mm. This one was little tough to measure accurately due to parallax error that I had to content with."
    sth

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    The BB should lie on the wheel centreline when the fork is 540mm with a 15mm headset cup.
    For your case, I would say it should be on centre with your longer, slacker fork, but with shallow headset.
    brant, i think a quick drawing would clear things up for people here and get rid of a lot of the repeated questions. obviously there is a spec issue on some of the frames and for it to affect the bb drop that much something must have been off jig-wise during fabrication. not a big deal i imagine as i do believe you warranty department will sort people out.

    but to keep from having the questions about numbers repeated, a drawing or a link to one would help people to figure out if they have issues and then they can move forward from there.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleTrackHound View Post
    Below is my BB drop reported back ion 1st page of this thread, post #10. With 540mm A/C fork, 15mm external cup lower headset, and shocker linkage in lower position. So how much am I off by, meaning out of spec by how much? Hate to take my bike part apart but if it is out of spec by a lot, I may just have to.

    "It measured around ~18-20mm. This one was little tough to measure accurately due to parallax error that I had to content with."
    Yes - your BB sounds to be too low and you should contact our returns department to discuss if you're unhappy.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    brant, i think a quick drawing would clear things up for people here and get rid of a lot of the repeated questions.
    Come on, guys...

    Simply, if you have a perfect side shot of your bike, draw a line from center of rear wheel axle to front wheel axle.

    The center (middle) of the BB hole or bolt should line up with this line. A normal BB Hollowtech axle is 24mm. If the whole axle hole is below the line you drew, your BB is good for plowing fields with your pedals, that would mean a BB drop of 12mm.

    Seriously, it's not that hard to figure.
    Check my Site

  43. #143
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    tbf, just about every mtb magazine talks about bb height. and today is first i've heard EG should have 0 drop!

    here's a quick diagram i found for bb drop:



    i'm sort of worried i might not like a correct frame as much! would like to try, will have to find someone with one first i guess... it's going to make a big difference if going up 3/4 ".

  44. #144
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    10-12mm drop, bummer.

    Edit* and this is with a 180mm fork with a 559mm axle to crown. Real bummer for those with a 160mm fork
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  45. #145
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    can anyone "beat" (go lower than) this then? or spot what i'm doing wrong?
    the bike is upside down but all suspension is aired up, no real slop in pivots etc



    for shits and giggles, i checked with the string how long the fork would have to be to produce 0 drop...
    7cm longer

    looking at it now, i think the rear dropouts are cut wrong, way too high (low in this pic) ?

  46. #146
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    ^^^^^ WTF? that's messed up.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  47. #147
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    El Guapo Size L
    Revelation 150mm
    12mm external Cup

    I measured 15mm BB drop. Picture with lower and upper rocker position in my album.

    @Smiff: As far as I can see my dropouts look the same, there is a picture of my dropouts in my album as well (am not yet allowed to post pics/links )

    @Brant: Would be interesting to know what causes this out-of-spec bb drop. Can you let us know if you find out?

    @all: What other bike models with a similar field of application have a similar bb drop as we see here?

    Cheers,
    Anatol

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    could it be too short seatstays btw? mine are 437mm from rocker pivot centre to rear axle centre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    looking at it now, i think the rear dropouts are cut wrong, way too high (low in this pic) ?
    SS = hair over 17 1/8"

    measured "on the one"

  49. #149
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    could it be too short seatstays btw? mine are 437mm from rocker pivot centre to rear axle centre.
    spec is 438.1 +2.0/-0.0

    seatstay pivot to seatstay pivot dimension should be 408mm (+/-0.5mm)

  50. #150
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    For comparison

    V2 El Guapo, 546mm Flox 36 RLC & Cane Creek 40 (12mm stack). Looks maybe 3-4mm above center. Anatol asked what other bikes have this type of drop. The Specialized Stumpy EVO is supposed to have a 4mm drop, 335 BB height:
    Specialized Bicycle Components
    In regards to Anatol's bike, he has a 15mm drop with a RS Rev 150, I couldn't find the A2C of the Rev 150 but I imagine its somewhere in the 530-535mm range? That would put his frame pretty close to spec, I also noticed his is a large and Terrible's and Smiff's are mediums, I wonder if this is limited to mediums? Anyone getting low BB's with small or large frames?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?-p1040991.jpg  


  51. #151
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    thanks, well, i'm a bit stuck.
    yeah it's a medium early V3.

    what's correct chainstay length please?
    distance from bb to main pivot?

    other possibilities.. headtube in totally wrong place, or pivots on seattube in wrong place?
    was hoping maybe it was just rear triangle wrong!


    "seatstay pivot to seatstay pivot dimension should be 408mm (+/-0.5mm) "

    don't understand this sorry. good to see your tolerances are actually quite good (imho).

  52. #152
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    How about a deal on a first run el guapo 29 to make up for this mess???
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    In regards to Anatol's bike, he has a 15mm drop with a RS Rev 150, I couldn't find the A2C of the Rev 150 but I imagine its somewhere in the 530-535mm range?
    527mm claimed by RS, 530mm actual on mine.
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  54. #154
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    i'm not asking for a diff bike, not even sure i want to change mine - be good for on-one to know what went wrong.
    it's a very nice/interesting ride actually. very stable! possibly too slack, which i noticed after being away for a bit. i'll check the HA later (only got a phone for this, not really accurate).

    a 15mm drop with a revelation sounds wrong as well, doesn't it? shouldn't it be ~4mm as Brant said before, any frame size?

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    How about a deal on a first run el guapo 29 to make up for this mess???
    Sure thing

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    i'm not asking for a diff bike, not even sure i want to change mine - be good for on-one to know what went wrong.
    it's a very nice/interesting ride actually. very stable! possibly too slack, which i noticed after being away for a bit. i'll check the HA later (only got a phone for this, not really accurate).

    a 15mm drop with a revelation sounds wrong as well, doesn't it? shouldn't it be ~4mm as Brant said before, any frame size?
    Try upper mounting hole for rocker. It steepens your HA by ~1 deg and slightly raises your BBH by few mm. Haven't noticed difference in ride quality or sag with same psi in the Monarch shock.

    My med EG V.3 has ~-18mm bb drop with 540mm fork with 15mm lower headset cup so it seems like mine is even worst than yours with 10mm taller fork.
    sth

  57. #157
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    Smiff, I miss read your figure. You actually have 22mm bb drop vs. my 18mm . Which makes sense since you are running 10 mm shorter fork.
    sth

  58. #158
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    Btw I gave up on Vengeance HLR air fork. It would have been perfect fork for my EG since it has taller A/C height than other brands 160mm forks but it made an annoying clicking/tapping noise every time it compresses so went back to trusty Z1 Light Bomber.
    sth

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    yeah STH you and i most likely have same frame.
    i also suppose lots of others do too, as this isn't just bad alignment, the frames are straight and well made, and they passed QC...
    can you work out which bit is "wrong"? if we had a new one side by side it'd be easy..

    i will try the other hole, just for curiosity..
    without riding another i'm really not sure what to ask on-one. i guess ideal would be if they'd send me a replacement and i could try it and compare before returning one of them! not sure any company would do that. but they have my details it's obvious i'm not running off.

    what would they do with used frames?
    is there demand out there for a super low bb 26" EG?

  60. #160
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    I'm curious... What's the rear travel on these out of spec frames? Anyone measured that?

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    yeah STH you and i most likely have same frame.
    i also suppose lots of others do too, as this isn't just bad alignment, the frames are straight and well made, and they passed QC...
    can you work out which bit is "wrong"? if we had a new one side by side it'd be easy..

    i will try the other hole, just for curiosity..
    without riding another i'm really not sure what to ask on-one. i guess ideal would be if they'd send me a replacement and i could try it and compare before returning one of them! not sure any company would do that. but they have my details it's obvious i'm not running off.

    what would they do with used frames?
    is there demand out there for a super low bb 26" EG?
    What is peculiar is while BBH or BB drop being way off, all other numbers seem spot on so far...including HA.

    It would be nice to see a post from EG V3 owners with taller BBH...picture of BB drop and actual number...just for comparison sake. Seeing BB drop picture from craigstr was eye opening since he is running similar length fork/headset combo as mine even though EG V3 from V2 bottom bracket height change is only suppose to be few millimeters lower per Titus.

    As I stated long posts ago this super duper low bottom bracket height EG is perfect if you want to run 650B wheel in the front.
    sth

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    On One fix

    maybe that's what they could do. send you a 27.5 rim & spokes of your choice, to buildup w/ your hub?
    breezy shade

  63. #163
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    Come think of it Titus could prolly start pumping out 650B frame by just engineering rear triangle while using the same front triangle from EG V3.
    sth

  64. #164
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    Wait a minute....just saw a possibility here.

    If that ever happened, I could just buy 650B rear triangle from Titus and slap it on my EG V3 front triangle and, viola, I have 650B frame with 3/4" taller BBH!
    sth

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    it's gonna be real interesting to see how On One works their way through this clusterfk how does this shite happen?
    breezy shade

  66. #166
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    Looks like I'll have to go and buy some string.

    Have a medium V3 with a RS Lyrik Coil u-turn on Maxxis High Rollers.

  67. #167
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    Time to re-up

    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    How about a deal
    Titus $500 frame trade-in program BEOTCH !!

    that would clean up said clusterfuck


    *and fix the mf geo chart for good, use bb drop measurement instead and strike the bb height measurement from existence

  68. #168
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    steady on. not everyone wants a 29er.. new fork, new wheels, tyres etc. and if you were happy with your ride, this (finding out it's not what you thought) doesn't actually make it worse.
    new buyers need to know what's up though.
    I really hope they don't kill the 26" EG because of this, that'd be a real shame. i'd be happy with v2 geo i think..

    someone with a very new medium v3 please do the string thing
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-10-2012 at 11:05 AM.

  69. #169
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    If that ever happened, I could just buy 650B rear triangle from Titus and slap it on my EG V3 front triangle and, viola, I have 650B frame with 3/4" taller BBH!
    I already reserved a place in that line!

    And at the same time convert the rear to 142x12. Or leave it 135 I don't care.

    To be honest I rode this morning and upped my rear shock pressure to run 15-20% sag and didn't have an yissues. I like the traction with 30% sag but really the lack of pedal strikes was alot better. I'm really thinking about picking up a fox float 160 now. I'd like to drop some weight and this totem is like a steal I beam on the front of my bike.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  70. #170
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    So I checked how long my fork would have to be for the string to go straight through the bb and came up with 200mm. Either I am doing something completely wrong or my frame is off spec.

    I am not too eager to change my frame either. But if the bb drop can be corrected by changing parts like rear triangle, rocker, front wheel/fork or something I would. I love to do of technical climbing and pedal strike is a problem there.

  71. #171
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    Anatolb....you said in an earlier post that your bb height was 13.2"? That actually strikes me as a bit high with a Rev 150. My V2 with a Float 36 is 13.5" in the forward shock hole. Can you double check the bb height? If its 13.2", that is money right there, I dont think you have a problem.

  72. #172
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    Craigstr .. Good point,measured bb heigth again and it is at 12.4 - 12,6 in (31.5-32cm) depending on rocker position.

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  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    it's gonna be real interesting to see how On One works their way through this clusterfk how does this shite happen?
    anyone that has an issue should get in touch and we will work on resolutions.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    anyone that has an issue should get in touch and we will work on resolutions.
    exellent plan. resolutions are definately in order. what went wrong, & why, is what remains to be made public knowledge.
    breezy shade

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    exellent plan. resolutions are definately in order. what went wrong, & why, is what remains to be made public knowledge.
    It really doesn't matter at all.

    It's clearly a manufacturing issue and if On One resolves the issue to your satisfaction, there is no point on finding out what went wrong.

    If it was a structural defect (cracks, broken parts) then yes, an explanation on what the defect is would be important.
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  76. #176
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    yeah i was going to say same thing, as long as On-One now take care of everyone who has a valid complaint (i.e. what they bought differs significantly from what they reasonably expected), i don't think On-one have any duty to explain publicly what happened, that's their business. it was just curiosity on my part and self-doubt, i.e. was I imagining this problem.. also, if i do contact them, i'm not going to go into detail other than to say i had a problem, they sorted it (or not, i have faith they will!).

    ...there seems to be some people now who don't own EGs jumping in baying for blood, and that's weird. On-one have a good reputation, and look at the value they offer UK enthusiasts like us (do we all want to be paying Orange/Cotic prices if those companies even offered equivalent products?). So although they were a bit slow, they deserve credit for that and a chance to sort this out, i think.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-12-2012 at 04:47 AM.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    thanks, well, i'm a bit stuck.
    yeah it's a medium early V3.

    what's correct chainstay length please?
    distance from bb to main pivot?

    other possibilities.. headtube in totally wrong place, or pivots on seattube in wrong place?
    was hoping maybe it was just rear triangle wrong!


    "seatstay pivot to seatstay pivot dimension should be 408mm (+/-0.5mm) "

    don't understand this sorry. good to see your tolerances are actually quite good (imho).
    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    yeah i was going to say same thing, as long as On-One now take care of everyone who has a valid complaint (i.e. what they bought differs significantly from what they reasonably expected), i don't think On-one have any duty to explain publicly what happened, that's their business. it was just curiosity on my part and self-doubt, i.e. was I imagining this problem.. also, if i do contact them, i'm not going to go into detail other than to say i had a problem, they sorted it (or not, i have faith they will!).

    ...there seems to be some people now who don't own EGs jumping in baying for blood, and that's weird. On-one have a good reputation, and look at the value they offer UK enthusiasts like us (do we all want to be paying Orange/Cotic prices if those companies even offered equivalent products?). So although they were a bit slow, they deserve credit for that and a chance to sort this out, i think.

    Smiff call Titus.....you've honed it down by now. Pick up the phone, man just pick up the phone and call

  78. #178
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    i will i will, just not sure what i even want.. never having ridden a "correct" EG!
    I could even (assuming On-one is all cool here) go to lots of trouble, pull mine apart, send it back, get another, rebuild and find after all that i like it less.

    Has anyone here (i think there's some guys in the US with collections of these things) ridden one of these V3s with the low BB AND say a V2 (which i know is not exactly the same, extra degree off HA, longer TT, but should be close?).

    Yes I do find the BB too low, but then I very much like other aspects of the ride, and don't know how much of this good stuff is down to the same low BB.. i also don't what else is different e.g. HA or other stuff may be quite a bit out in a way that i now like

    dilemmas!
    First World problems!
    heh.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-12-2012 at 01:55 PM.

  79. #179
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    I called Titus about my broken frame. I was able to talke to Mike about it. Dude was awesome about it and a pleasure to deal with. Call them an have a bike B.S. session. You might even hear some new underground info.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  80. #180
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    terrible ur in the US of A right? i'll have to see if On-one have a "Mike"

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    New to forum and just ordered a 2013 El Guapo and I have new Lyrik forks to go on my build ........

    Should I be worried about the BB height/Issue?

    Thanks

  82. #182
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    how much of this thread topic have you read?
    breezy shade

  83. #183
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    Well I thought I had read too much, but judging by your response ........ maybe I haven't read enough?

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by David0208 View Post
    Well I thought I had read too much, but judging by your response ........ maybe I haven't read enough?
    Your frame is 2013. I suggest you build it up, take some geo measurments, and go for a ride at local familiar trail before start worrying. Yours may be totally fine plus none of have clue what your bottom bracket height or drop is so it's impossible question to answer.
    sth

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    STH,

    Will do, I'll post my findings once it has been delivered.

    Cheers

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    I bought a new V3 in august, with the plan being to build it up with a revelation and external lower cup. Its not built up yet, but i don't want a sub 13" bb height. Going off what others have found it would seem the V3 isn't really suitable for a 150mm fork, which is frustrating as this is not the way it is advertised on their site. On one must have known this from the beginning, coincidence that their complete builds changed from v2+ rev to v3+ Lyrik?

    Had the site advertised it as only suitable for big/heavy 160 forks i wouldn't of bought it, to me this makes it less usable for what/where i want to ride. I could maybe run a fox 34, but the prices are laughable. Suppose the only way to find out what my bb height will be is to build it, but then will it be to late to return it? Shouldn't have to build the bike just to get the geo, it should be accurately provided for several fork a-c lengths the fork is supposed to be compatible with.

    Any way moaning aside, wonder if there will be any changes to the frames that are due in December, would be nice to know so i can make a decision on what to to with my frame.

    cheers

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan.greening87 View Post
    I bought a new V3 in august, with the plan being to build it up with a revelation and external lower cup. Its not built up yet, but i don't want a sub 13" bb height. Going off what others have found it would seem the V3 isn't really suitable for a 150mm fork, which is frustrating as this is not the way it is advertised on their site. On one must have known this from the beginning, coincidence that their complete builds changed from v2+ rev to v3+ Lyrik?
    The EG was not the best fit with short forks since V1.... if you dig really old threads, some folks were trying to use RS Pikes on it and they felt awful (dates back to the days of RS Pearl Shocks to give you an idea).

    The Revelation 150mm is only 530mm tall, only 10mm more than the Pike. In my mind, that's still a short fork compared to the crop of 160mm forks, all of them at 545mm A2C.

    With all due respect, I think the Revelation is not the best match for an EG geometry wise. Actually, none of the current 150mm forks. The new Fox 34 and X-Fusion Slant may fit much better to the EG without being much heavier.
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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    The EG was not the best fit with short forks since V1.... if you dig really old threads, some folks were trying to use RS Pikes on it and they felt awful (dates back to the days of RS Pearl Shocks to give you an idea).

    The Revelation 150mm is only 530mm tall, only 10mm more than the Pike. In my mind, that's still a short fork compared to the crop of 160mm forks, all of them at 545mm A2C.

    With all due respect, I think the Revelation is not the best match for an EG geometry wise. Actually, none of the current 150mm forks. The new Fox 34 and X-Fusion Slant may fit much better to the EG without being much heavier.
    According to the article on Fox, "The 34 is 20% stiffer than a 32, and approximately 200 grams lighter than a comparable 36, and they designed in an axle-to-crown that is 7.4 mm shorter than its 36 brethren." the A-C would still fall short of the usual 545mm A2C.

    Would have expected more news of the SLant by now- but given their "trend"- I would say they tend to run their A-C a tad longer than advertise. Not surprising since it has always been their manner to fit 2 wheelsize with one fork by means of an added spacer
    Last edited by anvil_den; 11-16-2012 at 01:50 AM.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    the A-C would still fall short of the usual 545mm A2C by~12-13mm.
    You mean running a 34 at 150mm, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Would have expected more news of the SLant by now- but given their "trend"- I would say they tend to run their A-C a tad longer than advertise. Not surprising since it has always been their manner to fit 2 wheelsize with one fork by means of an added spacer
    More or less... the Slant (according to X-Fusion website) is 545mm at 160mm. So equal than current Lyrik/36 but longer than a 34 and a 32mm RS.

    The info is on their website and the forks will not hit the market until early next year (or so I have been told, I want one).

    The "X-Fusions are longer to accommodate two wheel sizes" theory doesn't hold water when you factor than their 32mm forks have equal A2C's than their competition. At least in line with Rock Shox.
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    i guess this isn't clear:

    these frames are way out. a longer or shorter fork isn't going to make much difference.

    Please correct me if i'm wrong here?
    Several of us deduced then confirmed by brant, a 10mm raise in fork A2c only raises bb about 3-4mm, and these BBs (by my measurement, and for whatever reason) seem to be -18mm low! So unless you want to put 220mm (DH double crown? I dunno much about DH) forks on your bike.. and then you'll get a crazy HA and SA and ruin the bike anyway.

    i know a2c and travel aren't the same but they're pretty closely linked?

    i emailed Brant yesterday to ask about ride effects of this low bb, he hasn't replied yet, i guess he's a busy guy and probably has new bikes to work on... poor eld EG eh. missed out from Dirt 100 2013, yet the NP Mega was in there..

    @ dan.greening, stick any fork in there and do the string check. no need to build any more than that. you can probably do this without even fitting a headset with some bodging but the fork does need to be straight in the headtube.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-15-2012 at 07:59 AM.

  91. #191
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    No good 34mm

    Quote Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    According to the article on Fox, "The 34 is 20% stiffer than a 32, and approximately 200 grams lighter than a comparable 36, and they designed in an axle-to-crown that is 7.4 mm shorter than its 36 brethren."
    20% stiffer...

    Had 32mm Van RLC first on my motolite lowered @ 125-30. Spin the wheel, hit the brake and 32 would flop and bounce around for near 4 seconds video'd front wheel on chunk

  92. #192
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    It's a F-up It happens. I hope it can be fixed without messing up the good El Guapo name

    In the future if they make a 160 front and 160 rear travel 142 rear axle with a taper front head tube I'll jump back on the train. But! no rock shox rear shock and put the damn head tube cable guides back on! and give me back my anodized colors.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post

    these frames are way out. a longer or shorter fork isn't going to make much difference..
    Correct. You frame is out of specification. Hopefully, Brant will respond to your e-mail, as he specifically told you to contact him. If he does not respond, continue to call him out in this thread, untill he returns his attention to your need. He most likely is a busy guy; this may not be his only job. Do NOT give up putting the pressure on him and his company to set things right for you.
    ****

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    You mean running a 34 at 150mm, right?

    More or less... the Slant (according to X-Fusion website) is 545mm at 160mm. So equal than current Lyrik/36 but longer than a 34 and a 32mm RS.

    The info is on their website and the forks will not hit the market until early next year (or so I have been told, I want one).

    The "X-Fusions are longer to accommodate two wheel sizes" theory doesn't hold water when you factor than their 32mm forks have equal A2C's than their competition. At least in line with Rock Shox.
    Probably half awake in my last post-- just stating that if based on that article the 34 A2C would be 7.4mm shorter than the 36 @ 160mm travel... Ignore the "12-13mm difference" must be thinking something else when typing, just edited that.

    Ah I have not really been updating and going to their website much lately. If its 545mm for the SLant then its ok. But I kinda lost interest when Xf say they are dropping the 20mm TA option.

    Actually for all the Vengeance and Velvets I have measured... all have slightly longer A-C than advertised. I dont use the Velvets myself but have helped a number of friends to put Velvets on their bikes. The arches and underside of crown would seem to have a little more clearance compared to other forks. Was deducing the clearance on 650B came as a combination of these 2 factors, ie the clearnance and the slight increase A2C... crux would be in the fixed length of the lowers... but I need to measure a couple other forks now and compare to see if the ones on the XF are indeed longer.
    Last edited by anvil_den; 11-16-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    20% stiffer...

    Had 32mm Van RLC first on my motolite lowered @ 125-30. Spin the wheel, hit the brake and 32 would flop and bounce around for near 4 seconds video'd front wheel on chunk
    Only pique my interest because of the weight saving and it can still fit within a narrow application band for a more xc-ish EG. Be it V1,2 or 3 I never like the idea of the 150 forks... just throws everything way off for me...

    Earlier info on Slant was mixed... thought they would do a HLR with 20TA. In essence a "downsized" Vengeance. But looking at the specs now-- it more like an "upsize" Velvet... Im pretty much dropping the whole idea of lightening further...

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Correct. You frame is out of specification. Hopefully, Brant will respond to your e-mail, as he specifically told you to contact him. If he does not respond, continue to call him out in this thread, untill he returns his attention to your need. He most likely is a busy guy; this may not be his only job. Do NOT give up putting the pressure on him and his company to set things right for you.
    I am pretty sure I told him to contact our company. Much better than contacting me.
    He did contact me though, and I have replied, and he's now contacting our company as we can now supply a new frame.

  97. #197
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    sorry guys no need to argue. looks like i'll hopefully be having a replacement and there aren't so many people affected anyway.. all good news for on-one, and their customers too.
    i'm not upset about this btw, just wanted to understand better before going through a return, building a new bike etc.
    horrible weather for riding in the UK right now anyway so a good time to do this. thanks all.
    Last edited by Smiff; 11-16-2012 at 08:54 AM.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    I am pretty sure I told him to contact our company. Much better than contacting me.
    He did contact me though, and I have replied, and he's now contacting our company as we can now supply a new frame.
    does this frame replacement offer also apply to the out of spec. V2?
    breezy shade

  99. #199
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    What is wrong with your V2?

  100. #200
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    guess. you only get one
    breezy shade

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