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  1. #351
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    i didn't get to put both frames side by side but i did take some pics, unfortunately not quite lined up but if you flick between them:

    old (summer 2012)


    new (Jan 2013)


    you'll see the seattube, the seattube brace in particular are very different. also less seattube sticking up above brace in 2nd.

    edit: also, way improved rear disc tabs! check that out. world exclusive here
    ISCG tabs looks same to me.

    note i have not verified this 2nd frame is correct yet, just received it.

  2. #352
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    Looks like the forward shock mount is further forward on the new frame in relation to the Titus etching and cable guides?

  3. #353
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    new top mount looks larger

    Take a close up of the brake tab.. goes much further up now instead of couple extra beads (thing looks awesome)


    *use 160 fork Smiff...160

  4. #354
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    these are all of the Jan '13 frame



    so did anyone break their brake tabs?





    frame weight is about 3120 with same shock, so not much different possibly a few grams more? i can't remember exactly old weight. and i may have taken the plastic spacer out so very little difference!
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-23-2013 at 09:46 AM.

  5. #355
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    Love the raw finish, gonna have to get me one those seat stays

  6. #356
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    I had a Seatstay fail on a proto with thinner gauge tubing so thought it a good idea to modify the disc mount anyway.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    edit: also, way improved rear disc tabs! check that out. world exclusive here
    ISCG tabs looks same to me.

    note i have not verified this 2nd frame is correct yet, just received it.
    Maybe it was wrong seatstay length? Looking at were the dropout is on your pictures...

    Who cares, they fixed it...

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Maybe it was wrong seatstay length? Looking at were the dropout is on your pictures...

    Who cares, they fixed it...
    I believe it to be a combination of errors which unfortunately accumulated rather than cancelled each other out.

    Linkage systems do this.

    Much more accurate qc of assembled product and process should fix this in production, and then qc out the back of that should fix any that slip through.

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Maybe it was wrong seatstay length? Looking at were the dropout is on your pictures...

    nah we (brant and i) checked that, way back in this thread, seastay length was bang on spec. i thought same, dropouts "look" high. but that's not the issue.
    i'll put headset and fork in ASAP with string that's all i need to see.

    from what brant's saying the visible changes are for other reasons and not worth anyone with older frame getting their panties twisted about (as long your older one has good geometry!). it was just a few mm here and there adding up to quite a lot (3/4" in my case) at the bb..

    i guess you're always going to get slight weakness to tubes where you weld things, Trek had this same problem on i think early FuelExs, they solved just by shaping the weld with more taper. But Trek's seatstays were failing "in the wild"..
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-24-2013 at 04:30 AM.

  10. #360
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    Nice Smiff. Where did you get the double c-clip? Did it came with the frame? Did you also got a new shock or they put the old one back on?

    As far as the cable guide next to the rocker mount, I think the cables will have hard time to route...
    Did you had time to re-build it yet or not?

    What do we get with the new rear disc mount? More stiffness?

    Also I didn't quite get what was the problem with the v3 failed frames. As far I can see from the pictures the seatstay tube looks the same length but the horizontal tube is welded in an upper position. That was the problem?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #361
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    clips came on frame and there's something in that bag like a small tube i dunno what it is. yeah these didn't come with old frame. not sure tbh if those clips will be strong enough, probably end up using zip ties again.

    less seattube at top on new frame, should lower the bb, but if you look where the seatstay curls around seattube, i think that's lower on new frame? which lowers rear wheel, which raises bb.. but may just be the toptube is welded higher. def. different though.
    ditto moving top tube shock mount forward, should raise rear wheel, lower bb. but isn't shock eye in same place and mount just longer? it's really hard to see.

    it's my old shock on-one moved it over and put it on other way for some reason. can reach controls easer maybe that way. dunno why the didn't just ask me keep it. ok though because it's stopped leaking and will give a proper comparison of ride.

    yeah raw is still sexy. i'm confused whey they didn't move ISCG in a couple of mm as that would have been the easiest thing to fix!?

    i also noticed last night one of my horst pivots looks a bit misaligned not sure if will matter (there's a gap between alloy and plastic bush on one side).
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-24-2013 at 10:15 AM.

  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    clips came on frame and there's something in that bag like a small tube i dunno what it is. yeah these didn't come with old frame. not sure tbh if those clips will be strong enough, probably end up using zip ties again.

    less seattube at top on new frame, should lower the bb, but if you look where the seatstay curls around seattube, i think that's lower on new frame? which lowers rear wheel, which raises bb.. but may just be the toptube is welded higher. def. different though.
    ditto moving top tube shock mount forward, should raise rear wheel, lower bb. but isn't shock eye in same place and mount just longer? it's really hard to see.

    it's my old shock on-one moved it over and put it on other way for some reason. can reach controls easer maybe that way. dunno why the didn't just ask me keep it. ok though because it's stopped leaking and will give a proper comparison of ride.

    yeah raw is still sexy. i'm confused whey they didn't move ISCG in a couple of mm as that would have been the easiest thing to fix!?

    i also noticed last night one of my horst pivots looks a bit misaligned not sure if will matter (there's a gap between alloy and plastic bush on one side).
    Thanks for the info Smiff.
    I think that the top tube is welded higher and the top shock mount seems shorter as well it's one side welded more forward.
    Nice touch the c-clips. If knew I wouldn't order from eBay... I think they are strong. We will see.
    I wonder what this plastic tube you said is...
    To bad they didn't fix the iscg...
    By the way my shock was as yours is on the new frame. Otherwise you cannot reach the controls.
    Can't wait to get mine back. It should be here any day now!
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    Is that shipment going to UK or US?
    The shipment I made reference to is, I understand, going to the UK. There may be other shipments bound for USA - don't know.

  14. #364
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    what do y'all make of this? apart from obviously i'm spending too much time on this



    bb cup (only put in to raise level nearer string, difficult to line photo up) is approx 44mm across, so midpoint is 22mm. string crosses at 34mm, so i have -12mm drop. right?

    this is with Rev 150mm, CC40 external cup, same as i had on old frame.



    (terrifying for your stanchions!)







    (this looks weird, i'm trying to include the race, but 12mm lower stack height is on spec).

    Soo.. i think this frame is 10mm higher BB than my old frame, i should just be happy with that i guess? Why not the -4mm approx i think Brant said? was i misunderstanding somewhere?
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-26-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  15. #365
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    Looks to me like youve got a 10-12mm drop.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  16. #366
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    yeah it's an improvement i just thought i'd take a break and check in here before building it up. i should continue right? i mean i was almost ok with -22mm, i'll be ok with -12mm i guess. just a bit.. meh. was expecting higher!

    time to put the kettle on.
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-26-2013 at 03:39 PM.

  17. #367
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    Isnt it supposed to be 4mm drop with a 160mm fork? Move that string down 10mm on your fork and see what you get?

  18. #368
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    Interesting 650B tid bit here. I helped a friend build up a 650B today, I couldnt resist putting his Stan's Arch with a Nobby Nic 2.25 on the rear of my V2 EG. Had about 3-4mm of clearance at the chainstay yolk and about 2mm clearance at full suspension compression at the seatube. It was definitely tight but with a lower profile tire might just work.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Isnt it supposed to be 4mm drop with a 160mm fork? Move that string down 10mm on your fork and see what you get?
    it's supposed to be 0mm with 160mm RS fork?
    -12mm still seems rather much.. i'd get -8mm ish with a 10mm more fork (160mm). in theory. if i had one.

    a2c
    http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/ch...Axle2Crown.pdf

    any newer doc than this? no 150mm on that old chart, but if its 529mm, i'll check mine later. Lyric is 545mm? a 16mm difference could do as much as 5mm at bb? still doesn't account for it.

    i'll wait for now as i need to drill bb holes next and don't expect on-one to resell it as new after that.
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-26-2013 at 04:35 PM.

  20. #370
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    using this page
    Schwalbe Tire Specs
    taking a RachingRalph 2.1/2.25 (hopefully this is a typical tyre?)
    or a nevegal 2.1 which is a tyre i actually use
    Kenda Tire Specs
    "Axle to Tread tallest point mm" is the measurement we want. of course riding the bike it'll be lower.

    338mm with zero drop gives a bb height of 13.3" (338/25.4)
    which nicely is what we decided before is the spec.
    (a DH tyre could take you up to, i dunno, 13.5" ?)

    but with 12mm drop, i'd have a bb height of 12.83" this sound right? compare to the 12.5 i actually measured on old bike (8.4mm difference by calculator, so about right). guess i need to start using bigger tyres or fit a 650b back there Craig?
    Last edited by Smiff; 01-26-2013 at 06:04 PM.

  21. #371
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    Smiff. your BB height is too low; out of specification.
    ****

  22. #372
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    yeah, again? what should I do, wait 6 weeks for next batch? ask to return now? ffs.
    i specifically asked on-one (not Brant, because i was talking with cust service) if the ones they had in were correct, was told yes. a misunderstanding or did they think that i wouldn't check it?
    otoh, about 8-10mm higher might be alright..
    so.. 3rd time lucky?

  23. #373
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    What's the A-C on your 150mm ?


    Thought bb drop number is with 545mm A-C + 12-14mm external cup?

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    yeah, again? what should I do, wait 6 weeks for next batch? ask to return now? ffs.
    i specifically asked on-one (not Brant, because i was talking with cust service) if the ones they had in were correct, was told yes. a misunderstanding or did they think that i wouldn't check it?
    otoh, about 8-10mm higher might be alright..
    so.. 3rd time lucky?
    I hope I won't be so "lucky"!
    I am expecting mine later this week.
    I was also told that it is on specs and double checked!
    We will see. I hope they are right.
    I had a 12mm drop with a 170mm fork but with -1 degree slackset. Can't wait...
    Is your rear shock's pressure as it should be?
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiff View Post
    yeah, again? what should I do, wait 6 weeks for next batch? ask to return now? ffs.
    i specifically asked on-one (not Brant, because i was talking with cust service) if the ones they had in were correct, was told yes. a misunderstanding or did they think that i wouldn't check it?
    otoh, about 8-10mm higher might be alright..
    so.. 3rd time lucky?
    In photos it looks like your string is not dead on center of the dropout. Maybe 3mm to 5mm lower.

    150mm Rev is 530? 15mm A2C is probably 7mm difference? (Just measure the fraction of the string length where it passes the BB and multiply 15mm by that)

    So with those two factors (if I eyeballed your string and dropout correctly) you would be pretty close to where it should be.

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