• 05-01-2013
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    Would that not be more variable according to wheel/tire selection rather than frame/fork geometry?

    alright then, how 'bout the EXACT radius of both wheels?
  • 05-01-2013
    Broadica
    1 Attachment(s)
    rottenronny, i re-measure again, you are right... have a look at the photo

    Attachment 795459
  • 05-01-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Broadica View Post
    rottenronny, i re-measure again, you are right... have a look at the photo

    Looks like it would be ~0mm drop with 170mm fork, as implied in the messages above.
  • 05-01-2013
    rottenronny
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Broadica View Post
    rottenronny, i re-measure again, you are right... have a look at the photo

    Attachment 795459

    Thanks Broadica. Eyeballing from here (some parallax error involved) it looks like about 5 or 6 mm? Measured from center of string down to center of BB. Is that what you see from your end?
  • 05-01-2013
    Broadica
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    Thanks Broadica. Eyeballing from here (some parallax error involved) it looks like about 5 or 6 mm? Measured from center of string down to center of BB. Is that what you see from your end?

    i tried moving the string to the middle. its about ~3mm or so... thats what i read.
  • 05-01-2013
    cl.mustard
    Broadica am I right thinking you have an external lower cup headset on there?
  • 05-01-2013
    Broadica
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    Broadica am I right thinking you have an external lower cup headset on there?

    yes, a canecreek 40 with 10mm stack.
  • 05-02-2013
    rottenronny
    Cheers,
  • 05-02-2013
    rottenronny
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    Broadica am I right thinking you have an external lower cup headset on there?

    Good point. How did you "guess" that?

    On that note this is going to add another 10mm to front "lift", isn't it.
  • 05-02-2013
    cl.mustard
    As its now reccomended for a 170 fork (with EC cup) it had to be an EC cup unless there were more geo problems. This is quite good news I think. You could run 160 EC, 170 EC/ZS or 180 ZS if you wanted to. I'd be interested to see someone running a 180 fork on it!
    What were the tolerances? +/- 3mm?
    Interesting.
    Thanks Broadica, useful info!
  • 05-02-2013
    Broadica
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    As its now reccomended for a 170 fork (with EC cup) it had to be an EC cup unless there were more geo problems. This is quite good news I think. You could run 160 EC, 170 EC/ZS or 180 ZS if you wanted to. I'd be interested to see someone running a 180 fork on it!
    What were the tolerances? +/- 3mm?
    Interesting.
    Thanks Broadica, useful info!

    cheers
  • 05-02-2013
    brant
    Cane Creek and Rock Shox tolerance their shock lengths to +/- 1mm.
    With a 3:1 system that means +3/-3mm at the wheel, and perhaps +2/-2mm at the BB.

    Of course 1mm at the shock is a difference of 1/63 of the travel, (63mm stroke shock), so that's 2.3mm right there, around 1.8mm BB height difference.

    The difference between a 25% and 30% sag is 5/63 * 150 = 11mm at the wheel, so 8mm at the BB when you're on the bike.

    Lots of numbers.
  • 05-02-2013
    rottenronny
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    So what's happened is, we've got a frame that's designed for a longer fork than we anticipated. And we've got a production on some frames, lowers the BB further.

    Fitting the *correct* length fork (a 170mm) doesn't "fix" a BB height issue on a frame that has a manufacturing defect of course. Those frames have now been QC'd and removed from sale... But fitting a 170mm does make a frame that IS within tolerance (and that tolerance is specifically +3/-3mm) function correctly

    I have an out of spec frame.

    OnOne CS has offered me a 170mm fork. However, you indicate that fitting a 170mm fork will not "fix" the problem on out of spec bike. So I see this as only a part measure to getting me back to square one.

    I called your CS today and they indicate contrary to what I have quoted you as saying above. They have told me that fitting a 170mm fork does "fix" an out of spec frame.

    I realize that the problem has only just now become fully understood with the discovery that there are in fact 2 separate issues (originally production issue and now frame design issue). With this new information, can you please provide some guidance on how those of us who are in possession of a frame with a production defect (and purchased forks in accordance with the original specification which I understand is 150-160mm) could move forward?

    Please, please don't tell me to just return it for a T-shirt.

    Thank you.
  • 05-02-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    I have an out of spec frame.

    OnOne CS has offered me a 170mm fork. However, you indicate that fitting a 170mm fork will not "fix" the problem on out of spec bike. So I see this as only a part measure to getting me back to square one.

    I called your CS today and they indicate contrary to what I have quoted you as saying above. They have told me that fitting a 170mm fork does "fix" an out of spec frame.

    I realize that the problem has only just now become fully understood with the discovery that there are in fact 2 separate issues (originally production issue and now frame design issue). With this new information, can you please provide some guidance on how those of us who are in possession of a frame with a production defect (and purchased forks in accordance with the original specification which I understand is 150-160mm) could move forward?

    Please, please don't tell me to just return it for a T-shirt.

    Thank you.

    Did you call UK or USA, and to whom did you speak?
  • 05-02-2013
    rottenronny
    I spoke with Jonathan in UK
  • 05-02-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    I spoke with Jonathan in UK

    I've just had a chat with Jonny and clarified some stuff. He's more usually handling our road tech support for Planet X and wasn't fully updated with the 170mm issue, but is now.

    If you'd like to discuss it with me and have this resolved email me on brant at on one dot co dot uk
  • 05-02-2013
    rottenronny
    OK thanks. Email inbound.
  • 05-02-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rottenronny View Post
    OK thanks. Email inbound.

    nothing arrived yet?
  • 05-02-2013
    cl.mustard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Cane Creek and Rock Shox tolerance their shock lengths to +/- 1mm.
    With a 3:1 system that means +3/-3mm at the wheel, and perhaps +2/-2mm at the BB.

    Of course 1mm at the shock is a difference of 1/63 of the travel, (63mm stroke shock), so that's 2.3mm right there, around 1.8mm BB height difference.

    The difference between a 25% and 30% sag is 5/63 * 150 = 11mm at the wheel, so 8mm at the BB when you're on the bike.

    Lots of numbers.

    Interesting stuff, Brant. I have to admit there's more to it than I had first thought but that makes it all even more cool! I'll never be able to ride anything again without analysing the cr*p out of it after all this but I like that!
  • 05-02-2013
    rottenronny
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    nothing arrived yet?

    Sent you one. It didn't bounce. Anyway, I sent you a PM.

    Cheers.
  • 05-07-2013
    prancisfena
    1 Attachment(s)
    Man from Manila
    Back read through the whole thread... got me paranoid.

    Anyways, this is the frame I got from my LBS a week and a half ago:
    Attachment 797163

    I think it's one of the 2012 frames since the brake tabs are different from what I've been seeing. I'm from Manila and Titus distribution here isn't as good as in some countries. This was the ONLY titus EG frame that the shop had IIRC. Good luck to me for try to find a replacement.

    Waiting for more cash to build her up with a proper 170mm fork. :D

    Hoping and praying I don't get anything lower than a 13.1 bbh... I think i can live with 13.1, but 12.7 would be crazy. Is there a way for me to know how low it'll be without building it up? :D Am I right to assume I have the older (problematic) frame?
  • 05-08-2013
    davidlouis
    This is related to the BB drop issue so please bear with me....

    So my story is that I pre-ordered my El Guapo with CCDB shock (from South Africa) early Feb '13 with an anticipated availability date of the end of Feb and like some on this thread received the call from Brant with the bad news on March 6th and too opted for the offer of a free 170mm fork for all the pain and suffering caused as opposed to cancelling the whole deal.

    The anticipated delay was said to be 4-6 weeks as On-one were awaiting delivery of the new forks from Rock Shox....and assurances from Brant that I would have my precious El Guapo in time for a trip to Les Arcs in July... Its now 8 weeks on and there's mention on this thread of a further delay to delivery till the end of May. Others mention that they've been told its 6 months out!

    Brant.... please enlighten me, and i'm sure others following this thread, as to when we might be able to expect the goods? Having also ordered an inbred frame at the same time (a build for a friends birthday early June) I'm kind of enduring a double whammy at the moment. Further still if I now choose to cancel and opt for a refund, because of exchange rate fluctuations I will actually lose money (triple whammy)... I would then also have to look elsewhere for an all mountain / enduro style frame and the closest competitor is quite a bit pricier (quadruple whammy!)

    The website does finally list the change in the description of the frame suiting a 170mm fork and there is a bit of random re-stocking happening on a daily basis but no shipping confirmation in my inbox yet... There's also talk of getting the new range of Rockshox forks in too but no 170mm LYRIK's in the mix or on offer separately to suggest the El Guapo could follow shortly...

    Is this a sign that there's light at the end of the tunnel?
    Is the new stock coming in being prioritized for dealing with recalls before new sales?
    When can we honestly expect to have our orders to be delivered?

    For the time being I'm still keeping the faith and look forward to hearing from you.
    Otherwise my dealings with On-On and enjoyment of your products has been great!

    Cheers

    David
  • 05-08-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by davidlouis View Post
    This is related to the BB drop issue so please bear with me....

    So my story is that I pre-ordered my El Guapo with CCDB shock (from South Africa) early Feb '13 with an anticipated availability date of the end of Feb and like some on this thread received the call from Brant with the bad news on March 6th and too opted for the offer of a free 170mm fork for all the pain and suffering caused as opposed to cancelling the whole deal.

    The anticipated delay was said to be 4-6 weeks as On-one were awaiting delivery of the new forks from Rock Shox....and assurances from Brant that I would have my precious El Guapo in time for a trip to Les Arcs in July... Its now 8 weeks on and there's mention on this thread of a further delay to delivery till the end of May. Others mention that they've been told its 6 months out!

    Brant.... please enlighten me, and i'm sure others following this thread, as to when we might be able to expect the goods? Having also ordered an inbred frame at the same time (a build for a friends birthday early June) I'm kind of enduring a double whammy at the moment. Further still if I now choose to cancel and opt for a refund, because of exchange rate fluctuations I will actually lose money (triple whammy)... I would then also have to look elsewhere for an all mountain / enduro style frame and the closest competitor is quite a bit pricier (quadruple whammy!)

    The website does finally list the change in the description of the frame suiting a 170mm fork and there is a bit of random re-stocking happening on a daily basis but no shipping confirmation in my inbox yet... There's also talk of getting the new range of Rockshox forks in too but no 170mm LYRIK's in the mix or on offer separately to suggest the El Guapo could follow shortly...

    Is this a sign that there's light at the end of the tunnel?
    Is the new stock coming in being prioritized for dealing with recalls before new sales?
    When can we honestly expect to have our orders to be delivered?

    For the time being I'm still keeping the faith and look forward to hearing from you.
    Otherwise my dealings with On-On and enjoyment of your products has been great!

    Cheers

    David

    Please email info@on-one.co.uk with your sales order number to discuss this, as they have all the details. I know from experience, me handling one-on-one customer service queries via forums is a recipe for disaster.

    If you don't get any luck from CS, then I will see what I can fix.

    I do know forks are very close to landing with us, and frames have all been QC'd and good ones are ready to ship to you.
  • 05-08-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by prancisfena View Post
    Back read through the whole thread... got me paranoid.

    Anyways, this is the frame I got from my LBS a week and a half ago:
    Attachment 797163

    I think it's one of the 2012 frames since the brake tabs are different from what I've been seeing. I'm from Manila and Titus distribution here isn't as good as in some countries. This was the ONLY titus EG frame that the shop had IIRC. Good luck to me for try to find a replacement.

    Waiting for more cash to build her up with a proper 170mm fork. :D

    Hoping and praying I don't get anything lower than a 13.1 bbh... I think i can live with 13.1, but 12.7 would be crazy. Is there a way for me to know how low it'll be without building it up? :D Am I right to assume I have the older (problematic) frame?

    If you do end up out of spec we'll have a revised chainstay to ship to you shortly which will resolve the BB height issue.
  • 05-08-2013
    Strafer.2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    If you do end up out of spec we'll have a revised chainstay to ship to you shortly which will resolve the BB height issue.

    Brant, is this an option that those of us in US can take?
    I'd much rather replace the CS than rebuild the whole bike.
  • 05-08-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    Brant, is this an option that those of us in US can take?
    I'd much rather replace the CS than rebuild the whole bike.

    Yup. We are just working towards QCing the first samples of the reworked chainstay which will lift the BB's of frames out of tolerance. Once the concept is approved, we'll get those rolling through and it will be a relatively simple swap out process.
  • 05-08-2013
    Bazmonster
    The On-One web site now has the EG as being "approved for use with 170mm travel suspension forks" but also still says "Advised Fork Length: 150/160mm Rock Shox/Fox"; perhaps this needs to be made consistent.

    This change presents a quandary for those of us who've been struggling with 150mm forks as I'm not sure whether I should now change it to get a more usable BB height. It also seems that the inventory of 26" 170mm forks in the UK seems to be approximately zero at the moment which limits my options somewhat!
  • 05-08-2013
    prancisfena
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    If you do end up out of spec we'll have a revised chainstay to ship to you shortly which will resolve the BB height issue.

    I'm hoping it's not out of spec - but COOL! Thanks brant.

    I have a question, more out of curiosity than anything else... were all the frames in that problematic production run out of spec or there were just a percentage of the frames? I was assuming it was the latter.
  • 05-08-2013
    nhodge
    the ongoing saga of the On-One El Guapo just continues to get curiouser & curiouser
  • 05-08-2013
    Deerhill
    Retrofit
    Curious to see these new chainstays .. Seems like a good time to start an option for 27.5" rear too, no? The uprated SS at sea otter looked like a move in the right direction and something I want ASAP
  • 05-09-2013
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    the ongoing saga of the On-One El Guapo just continues to get curiouser & curiouser

    But I do really hope it works out. It does seem that Brant/ On-one are going out of their way to make things right. The wait is terrible but a free 170mm fork seems like a nice deal!

    But what I don't get is why Titus/ On-One have to pay for those frames if they are manufactured wrong. Shouldn't the manufacturer just eat the cost in that situation?
  • 05-09-2013
    Bazmonster
    Quote:

    which will lift the BB's of frames out of tolerance
    Reading through all the above (again!) I'm still confused. :confused: A question for Brandt - is a frame now considered "out of tolerance" only if it has a BB drop when using a 170mm fork, or is one that has a BB drop with the originally specified 150mm fork still considered out of tolerance even if it might be "ok" with a hypothetical 170mm fork? (I use the term "ok" loosely as I bought it as a bike that could be used with a 150mm fork...) Or to put it another way will we all be offered the new chainstay?
  • 05-09-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bazmonster View Post
    Reading through all the above (again!) I'm still confused. :confused: A question for Brant - is a frame now considered "out of tolerance" only if it has a BB drop when using a 170mm fork, or is one that has a BB drop with the originally specified 150mm fork still considered out of tolerance even if it might be "ok" with a hypothetical 170mm fork? (I use the term "ok" loosely as I bought it as a bike that could be used with a 150mm fork...) Or to put it another way will we all be offered the new chainstay?

    A frame is out of tolerance if it's dropped with a 170mm fork.
  • 05-10-2013
    Bazmonster
    Quote:

    A frame is out of tolerance if it's dropped with a 170mm fork.
    So it would seem that for those of us that bought the frame on the basis that it would work with the recommended 150mm Rockshox fork we've got something that doesn't work as sold and our only option is to get hold of a 170mm fork which at the moment seem to be as rare as unicorn tears.:madman:

    If we can't have the revised chainstay is there any chance of On-One sourcing some suitable forks for us at a reasonable price?
  • 05-10-2013
    Warp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bazmonster View Post
    If we can't have the revised chainstay is there any chance of On-One sourcing some suitable forks for us at a reasonable price?

    They have some sweet Boxxers and some sweet Revelations 150mm :D
    Suspension Forks | Forks - So wrong, it's right
  • 05-10-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bazmonster View Post
    So it would seem that for those of us that bought the frame on the basis that it would work with the recommended 150mm Rockshox fork we've got something that doesn't work as sold and our only option is to get hold of a 170mm fork which at the moment seem to be as rare as unicorn tears.:madman:

    If we can't have the revised chainstay is there any chance of On-One sourcing some suitable forks for us at a reasonable price?

    If that's the case, please get in touch with us at Planet X and let's see what we can do for you.
  • 05-10-2013
    Bazmonster
    Thanks brant, have contacted On-One quoting you!

    Quote:

    They have some sweet Boxxers and some sweet Revelations 150mm
    That's true, at least about the revs (can't find any boxxers there, they'd be a bit over the top) but unless Rockshox have done a 170mm rev I don't think it would help - and I suspect if they did one it would be a bit noodly with 32mm stanchions!:)
  • 05-10-2013
    prancisfena
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bazmonster View Post
    So it would seem that for those of us that bought the frame on the basis that it would work with the recommended 150mm Rockshox fork we've got something that doesn't work as sold and our only option is to get hold of a 170mm fork which at the moment seem to be as rare as unicorn tears.:madman:

    If we can't have the revised chainstay is there any chance of On-One sourcing some suitable forks for us at a reasonable price?

    I'm getting rid of my 150mm sektor. I don't mind. I like the bike and I think it'll be worth the wait (still selling my GT Force with sektor 150mm to fund the new build).

    I think it's just a matter of getting a fork that has the proper (or close to proper) axle to crown measurement. I can't afford a 170mm Lyrik or a Vengeance, I might try going 180mm with a Durolux - those have the same a2c length as the Vengeance. :D
  • 05-10-2013
    Deerhill
    The Metric should be hitting soon ; )
  • 05-10-2013
    TypeR
    Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?
    Brant, how close are On One to getting the Lyriks in stock? I've been offered one and I'm curious to see what effect it has.

    I've been riding the El Guapo with a 150mm Fox fork and to be honest it's been great, you do get the odd pedal strike but it can be forgiven for being very stable and for going round corners like its on rails :)
  • 05-10-2013
    prancisfena
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    The Metric should be hitting soon ; )

    Metric? Is that a new fork?
  • 05-10-2013
    miniwisejosh
    Yep, new X Fusion. A bit much for the El Guapo IMO, but should be perfect for my new SX Trail :thumbsup:

    http://www.xfusionshox.com/news/465-2014-preview.html
  • 05-11-2013
    Deerhill
    Yeah, I really like 160mm w/ stiff 36 on el Guapo. Haven't seen much about that fork, just that it seems light for a 180mm 36. Think they'll have 26" and a 650b w/ new offset


    *Can be lowered to 160mm :devil:
  • 05-11-2013
    topcatno1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TypeR View Post
    Brant, how close are On One to getting the Lyriks in stock? I've been offered one and I'm curious to see what effect it has.

    I've been riding the El Guapo with a 150mm Fox fork and to be honest it's been great, you do get the odd pedal strike but it can be forgiven for being very stable and for going round corners like its on rails :)

    Out of interest did you have to strip your bike and send it back to them? I'm in the same position but have been told by 'Wayne' at on-one that I need to send the frame to them. Surely they know which batch they sold are unfit for purpsoe (ie. 150mm forks). I reckon mine (Nov V3) is 'in spec' for a 170mm fork (0mm drop) but definitely needs a 170mm fork rather than my 150mm Revs.
  • 05-11-2013
    TypeR
    Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by topcatno1 View Post
    Out of interest did you have to strip your bike and send it back to them? I'm in the same position but have been told by 'Wayne' at on-one that I need to send the frame to them. Surely they know which batch they sold are unfit for purpsoe (ie. 150mm forks). I reckon mine (Nov V3) is 'in spec' for a 170mm fork (0mm drop) but definitely needs a 170mm fork rather than my 150mm Revs.

    No I'm still riding the bike. They gave me the option of returning the frame and getting a full refund, returning the frame and exchanging it when the next batch comes in or a 170mm Lyrik fork.

    My frame (bought in dec 12) is only marginally out of spec with the 150mm fork so I decided to go with the Lyrik option :)

    The Fox float I have on the EG was always a compromise so I'm pretty happy with getting a beefier fork which will compensate for the dodgy geometry :)
  • 05-11-2013
    topcatno1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TypeR View Post
    No I'm still riding the bike. They gave me the option of returning the frame and getting a full refund, returning the frame and exchanging it when the next batch comes in or a 170mm Lyrik fork.

    My frame (bought in dec 12) is only marginally out of spec with the 150mm fork so I decided to go with the Lyrik option :)

    The Fox float I have on the EG was always a compromise so I'm pretty happy with getting a beefier fork which will compensate for the dodgy geometry :)

    Thanks dude, that's what I thought they'd say to me but instead they want me to send it back for inspection. They must know it's a V3 so I don't see why. I want to keep it, so the option of a replacement fork is what I'm looking for. The hassle of stripping and sending it I could do without.

    Brant - what is the policy here? Seems to be different depending on who you talk to...
  • 05-12-2013
    TypeR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by topcatno1 View Post
    Thanks dude, that's what I thought they'd say to me but instead they want me to send it back for inspection. They must know it's a V3 so I don't see why. I want to keep it, so the option of a replacement fork is what I'm looking for. The hassle of stripping and sending it I could do without.

    Brant - what is the policy here? Seems to be different depending on who you talk to...

    No problem fella. I was under the impression that everyone who has an out of spec frame was going to be given the same three options?

    FWIW it was Charlie at On One who I spoke with over the phone and via email.
  • 05-12-2013
    Strafer.2
    And now there seems to be a 4th option, swapping out just the chain stay.
  • 05-12-2013
    topcatno1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    And now there seems to be a 4th option, swapping out just the chain stay.

    I'd take that too! I just reallydon't see why they want me to faff about sending it back when from what has been written on here by Brant they KNOW there is a problem with the V3s.:madman:
  • 05-12-2013
    George Gr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    And now there seems to be a 4th option, swapping out just the chain stay.

    Could just a new chain stay solve the problem?