• 04-23-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    it would be a great frame, if the geos weren't all over the place.

    It was a bug, and it was fixed. They owned to it. Get over it. Not like frame that had been breaking in pieces, like so many other companies occasionally did put out.
  • 04-23-2013
    Strafer.2
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It was a bug, and it was fixed. They owned to it. Get over it. Not like frame that had been breaking in pieces, like so many other companies occasionally did put out.

    How is it fixed, when myself and others have been waiting for almost a year for corrected frame?
    So I should just get over it that I got a defective product?
    And now we hear that the "corrected" frame should be paired with 170mm forks.
    You obviously don't have one of the affected frames, so why are you so defensive?
  • 04-23-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    How is it fixed, when myself and others have been waiting for almost a year for corrected frame?
    So I should just get over it that I got a defective product?

    Yes, you should get over it. Defects happen. It happened. Not the first in the industry, not the last. Nothing criminal happened, and you could have gotten refund long time ago. That is what I did when I changed my mind about El Guapo. Just shipped it back, no questions asked, and got a different frame. On One actually does stand behind their products. They just can't work miracles, while making you great product for a fraction of the cost everybody else charges.
  • 04-24-2013
    Hösö
    I have to admit, customer service really sucks!

    They really think that it's fair to keep me waiting six months...
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hösö View Post
    I have to admit, customer service really sucks!

    They really think that it's fair to keep me waiting six months...

    No. We don't think it's good or fair, which is why we have offered you all options. One of which is an apology, a full refund, and hey, I will personally pay you back lost interest on your money at Bank of England rates.
  • 04-25-2013
    Trajan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hösö View Post
    I have to admit, customer service really sucks!

    They really think that it's fair to keep me waiting six months...

    From what has been said (by you even), you where given certain options that included backing out of the purchase and getting all your money back (plush a T-shirt). But YOU decided to wait. Actually, I would say that it has been very good customer service but just a bad customer...
  • 04-25-2013
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    No. We don't think it's good or fair, which is why we have offered you all options. One of which is an apology, a full refund, and hey, I will personally pay you back lost interest on your money at Bank of England rates.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hösö View Post
    I have to admit, customer service really sucks!

    They really think that it's fair to keep me waiting six months...


    as much as a clusterfawk as this has all been, titus has given you realistic options including full refund. it's your choice to wait and i imagine you are because other than a yt industries complete build there really isn't any deal out there as good as the el guapo. you're free to move on, you aren't doing so. that's your call. either shut up and continue to wait, or take your money elsewhere. only two real options
  • 04-25-2013
    cl.mustard
    Been a lurker on here for a long time now and it has taken this topic to finally bring me out of the shadows so Hi to everyone, I know you but you do not know me..yet.

    I have been awaiting news on the new Guapos for ages as I'm after one. I have followed all the problems right from the very first notion of the BB height problem. Seems to me, as many have already stated, that On-One are doing their best in a bad sitch.

    I can't pretend that price isn't a major factor when opting for the Guapo but I'm sure there are many now who would like to know more about the geo of the new frames!

    -170 sounds like its being pushed further into the pocket dh realm and away from the 'ride back up' ethos.
    (it also sounds a little like they haven't actually fixed anything but just decided that shoving a 170mm fork on there will sort out the low bb, so is the head angle also affected?)
    You could also go 180mm with a zero stack lower...

    So a geo sheet would be very well received by all!!

    And as if by miracle they're back online...Titus El Guapo Frame with Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shock

    -Still no updated geo though?
  • 04-25-2013
    stevenk4563
    This was the response I got back from customer services when I asked about running it with a 150mm fork and if the geo was changing.

    "unfortunately not. we are not correcting the geometry of the frames to suit a 170mm fork. we are using a 170mm fork to correct the bottom bracket drop problem we had with the frames. these frames will not work with a 150 mm fork unfortunately"
  • 04-25-2013
    cl.mustard
    I really hoped I was wrong about that. Oh dear.
    Don't like the sound of that at all.

    So the guys that had BB drops that were 'in spec' were actually the odd ones out and the low 'out of spec' ones were correct, they just got the sums wrong for the a2c?
    Have they actually tightened any QC procedures at all?

    What's to stop people getting stupid high BB now if you end up with one that would have been 'in spec' with the previous 160mm approved frame

    EDIT: OR there were no 'in spec' frames before, only freak setups that gave close to 'in spec' measurements - high a2c/ tyre combo/ headset stack, etc.
    OR just poorly taken measurements.

    .Maybe they think that we wont notice and as long as there is nobody moaning about pedal strikes its all gravy.

    I'd like more clarification on what exactly has been done and why, "just put a 170mm fork on it, be rate" is not good enough for me.

    Brant told me they have a shorter travel bike with thru axle coming later in the year, probably wait for that then...assuming it won't be plagued with similar problems I may wait.
  • 04-25-2013
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    I really hoped I was wrong about that. Oh dear.
    Don't like the sound of that at all.

    So the guys that had BB drops that were 'in spec' were actually the odd ones out and the low 'out of spec' ones were correct, they just got the sums wrong for the a2c?
    Have they actually tightened any QC procedures at all?

    What's to stop people getting stupid high BB now if you end up with one that would have been 'in spec' with the previous 160mm approved frame

    EDIT: OR there were no 'in spec' frames before, only freak setups that gave close to 'in spec' measurements - high a2c/ tyre combo/ headset stack, etc.
    OR just poorly taken measurements.

    .Maybe they think that we wont notice and as long as there is nobody moaning about pedal strikes its all gravy.

    I'd like more clarification on what exactly has been done and why, "just put a 170mm fork on it, be rate" is not good enough for me.

    Brant told me they have a shorter travel bike with thru axle coming later in the year, probably wait for that then...assuming it won't be plagued with similar problems I may wait.


    i guess at the price they are selling the el guapo, it isn't worth their effort to change the specs or at least it wouldn't be as cheap in the end if they had to retool to do so. if a 170mm fork works with it then it's still a killer deal. less than $800 for a full suspension frame, that's a killer deal. does it suck for people who want to run 150mm? sure it does, but if you want a frame for a 150mm fork pony, up the cash for something else then. at least now there is a final resolution on these. maybe run an x-fusion fork as their a2c is a little higher than fox/rock shox

    don't hold your breath on the new 150mm thru axle frames being as cheap as the el guapo though. new tooling and designs cost money. i imagine it will still be a good deal, just not as smoking a deal as the el guapo
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevenk4563 View Post
    This was the response I got back from customer services when I asked about running it with a 150mm fork and if the geo was changing.

    "unfortunately not. we are not correcting the geometry of the frames to suit a 170mm fork. we are using a 170mm fork to correct the bottom bracket drop problem we had with the frames. these frames will not work with a 150 mm fork unfortunately"

    That's not correct, but it's been a very fluid situation of late, so I'm not surprised that some of our CS guys aren't fully up to speed. I shall clarify this with them again now. I've obviously not communicated issues to them correctly, and we (Titus, On-One customer service, our agents in Taiwan, Kinesis - the company who make them, and me) have all learnt a lot over the last few weeks.

    Indeed, two weeks ago, I was in Taiwan, having flown there straight from our office when things were not progressing as I liked.

    The situation is that the drawings for the V3 were erroneously created favouring 170mm fork, and in addition to this, due to the oddly dimensioned drawing, there was also a manufacturing error on a %ge of some of the frames, causing a lower-than-anticipated BB height.

    So what's happened is, we've got a frame that's designed for a longer fork than we anticipated. And we've got a production on some frames, lowers the BB further.

    Fitting the *correct* length fork (a 170mm) doesn't "fix" a BB height issue on a frame that has a manufacturing defect of course. Those frames have now been QC'd and removed from sale... But fitting a 170mm does make a frame that IS within tolerance (and that tolerance is specifically +3/-3mm) function correctly.

    So to clarify - all frames that are now for sale are good to go (same 0mm BB Drop) with a 170mm fork to the tolerance (which is pretty much industry standard, or better in my experience).

    They won't work great with a 150 fork. They might well be fine for some people with a 160 fork (being only 3mm lower), and of course people running 25% rather than 35% shock sag will not find this an issue.

    Quote:

    Brant told me they have a shorter travel bike with thru axle coming later in the year, probably wait for that then...assuming it won't be plagued with similar problems I may wait.
    It's called the TR26 and it was on show at Sea Otter. And it might well be being ridden around a lot right now. And we're not rushing it, but it's great so far.

    Gentlemen and Titus enthusiasts, many thanks for your patience and enthusiasm for the brand, and understand the disappointment that many of you feel. It shouldn't have been like this.
  • 04-25-2013
    cl.mustard
    EDIT: Just read Brant's post above, that's the clarification I was after. Thanks for that! Feel free to ignore my drivel below.

    For me it isn't just the price point. I'd have been chasing this frame even if it was priced similarly to the competition. And I'd still be interested in it with the longer front end but I don't like the way it seems bodged to just stick a longer fork on it. Though I agree that if it works, it works...it doesn't seem right in my geek brain.

    Does anyone know, was the shorter travel frame born out of fixing the current EG? Seems (to me) that the current 170mm is a bodged stop gap and the shorter one is what the EG should really be.

    Fair enough if you're after a 170mm EG though!
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    Does anyone know, was the shorter travel frame born out of fixing the current EG?

    No - the shorter travel frame was designed many months ago before these problems appeared.

    I like "mismatched" travel bikes.
  • 04-25-2013
    cl.mustard
    Thanks again, Brant.
    Got a much better idea of what's going on now ta! Apologies for idle speculation, what are forums for if not that.
    Hopefully there is some closure now to it all!
    TR26 you say...if you need anyone to test in the midlands area please get in touch!
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    Thanks again, Brant.
    Got a much better idea of what's going on now ta! Apologies for idle speculation, what are forums for if not that.
    Hopefully there is some closure now to it all!
    TR26 you say...if you need anyone to test in the midlands area please get in touch!

    Cheers. I hoped I wrote that in an understandable way. Two weeks of Chinese and Taiwanese travelling has sort of caught up with me - I have a cold and feel like death, so bed early, but keep checking back here to see what sort of mauling I'm getting.
  • 04-25-2013
    dan.greening87
    Hi Brant
    My frame will be getting delivered back to on one tomorrow for a refund. I had a 14-15mm drop using the (previously) correct fork and headset length, iv'e included some pics for your return guys to see. To be fair on one have been pretty good as they made me a generous offer but it wasn't suitable. The only downside is that i now need a new frame but there's nothing out there for less than a grand so it's gonna cost me double now, never mind.

    Any idea how long a refund takes as i got my eye on something sexy but there's only 1 frame left and i can't afford it until i get a refund lol

    Cheers, Dan
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?
    I would hope refund would process same day from our side. How long your card company takes I'm not sure.
  • 04-25-2013
    dan.greening87
    cheers, have you got any links from sea otter about this shorter travel frame?
  • 04-25-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cl.mustard View Post
    -170 sounds like its being pushed further into the pocket dh realm and away from the 'ride back up' ethos.

    Love 170 Lyrik on my Nicolai - 180 forks are notably heavier. I would not call it pocket DH yet, especially with ZS and not too slack front.
  • 04-25-2013
    craigstr
    Which one was the TR 26? The black frame with the bearings in the horst link?
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Which one was the TR 26? The black frame with the bearings in the horst link?

    Yes. Which was a 26in frame. 435mm rear stays, 130mm rear, 150-160 front. Steep seat angle, slack head. Not a 29er as reported.
  • 04-25-2013
    craigstr
    Ha... She told me it was a 29.
  • 04-25-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Ha... She told me it was a 29.

    Should be 650b. :) Brant promised once Rock Shox makes a 650b Lyrik. Which is the new Pike.
  • 04-25-2013
    brant
    Why is bottom bracket height on my new EG V.3 so low?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Should be 650b. :) Brant promised once Rock Shox makes a 650b Lyrik. Which is the new Pike.

    But it's a pike not a Lyrik :-)
    650g is planned.
  • 04-25-2013
    stevenk4563
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Yes. Which was a 26in frame. 435mm rear stays, 130mm rear, 150-160 front. Steep seat angle, slack head. Not a 29er as reported.

    Sounds like just what I was after :)
  • 04-25-2013
    motochick
    I too have been a longtime lurker who has been looking at building up an EG. I have been in contact with Brant via email, TitusUSA, and have been following this thread....I still have a question about the geometry. What is the HTA of the frames that are for sale right now from On-One? Using what A2C? Is this the same geo as the ones that are being shipped to the USA right now? No one at TitusUSA can give me an answer. They have no idea what the geo is for any of the frames, be it from the UK or USA.
  • 04-25-2013
    craigstr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brant View Post
    No - the shorter travel frame was designed many months ago before these problems appeared.

    I like "mismatched" travel bikes.

    Soooo.... Can it be run 650B? 150mm 650B fork, make a new seatstay/dropout and you have an easy 650B bike. Come on Brant everyone is doing it.
  • 04-25-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    They have no idea what the geo is for any of the frames, be it from the UK or USA.

    I am shopping for a cheap(er) carbon hardtail, gravel road kind, right now (Dirty Harry is a serious consideration), and I like how those direct Chinese sellers on Ebay just post detailed technical drawings of the frame... They have to exist, on the factory floor at least, right?
  • 04-25-2013
    Vespasianus
    That bike sounds like the mini EG that I have longed for. Man, now I am excited!!

    Pics, we need more pics!
  • 04-25-2013
    J:
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Good to know. Thx.My bombproof wheels are finally going to the grave... let's see if I can score a pr of 650 to tryout..

    Hmm you vengeance with 20mm is the way to go for this. You try it out?

    One thing for certain, it's two thumbs down on those new 15mm axles
  • 04-26-2013
    cl.mustard
    +1 for that.
    It sounds awesome.

    Anyone offer any more info on the TR26? I can't find much.
    Or the retrofit thru axle mentioned here: http://forums.mtbr.com/titus/titus-s...er-850477.html
    howsatwork!?

    I know it's been said before that the EG is fine without thru axle but I'd prefer it to normals.
  • 04-26-2013
    anvil_den
    many possible combos...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Hmm you vengeance with 20mm is the way to go for this. You try it out?

    One thing for certain, it's two thumbs down on those new 15mm axles

    Thrown on a 27.5 hoop on loan on the Veng Coil. A little lopsided with the rear still on 26. Kinda like the feeling of those 69er bike...

    Yea 15mm sucks but have to trade the Veng Air on the other EG for the Slant to shave +1 lb off the front. Epic xc-ish type rides lined up over the next few months.

    If a new 27.5 rear unfolds that's compatible with my old frames, that would be nice.. wil lhave lots of swapping options on both with just a pr of new wheels.
  • 04-26-2013
    motochick
    In case anyone cares, the ones for sale at On-One are the original frames that were QC'd to be in spec within 3mm (drop) using a 170 fork. Any news on the ones being shipped to the USA? Are they the new batch, and did the geo change at all?
  • 04-26-2013
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    In case anyone cares, the ones for sale at On-One are the original frames that were QC'd to be in spec within 3mm (drop) using a 170 fork. Any news on the ones being shipped to the USA? Are they the new batch, and did the geo change at all?

    whose opinion would you actually believe? i don't see any indication that anybody really "knows" anything. just seems like you put up your money & take a chance. even if someone who gets one posts their geo., would you feel like that would be what you could count on being consistant, w/ the production track record?
  • 04-26-2013
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    just seems like you put up your money & take a chance.

    Chance of what? Having to get a refund at the worst case and a personal apology from the company?

    Better deal than many.

    You do not get to save a thousand $ for absolutely no tradeoff.
  • 04-26-2013
    motochick
    I won't be taking any chances which is why I am asking so many questions. If this frame fits my needs, I will buy one, if not, I will look elsewhere. So far, I have been having my questions answered in a timely manner. I don't get the feeling I am being misled or lied to, I get the feeling there has been a lot of unfortunate things that have happened and they are doing their best with what info they have. BTW, the ones coming to the USA are the same specs as the ones in the UK.
  • 04-26-2013
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    I won't be taking any chances which is why I am asking so many questions. If this frame fits my needs, I will buy one, if not, I will look elsewhere. So far, I have been having my questions answered in a timely manner. I don't get the feeling I am being misled or lied to, I get the feeling there has been a lot of unfortunate things that have happened and they are doing their best with what info they have. BTW, the ones coming to the USA are the same specs as the ones in the UK.

    better deal buying through on-one uk.
  • 04-27-2013
    J:
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Thrown on a 27.5 hoop on loan on the Veng Coil. A little lopsided with the rear still on 26. Kinda like the feeling of those 69er bike... Yea 15mm sucks but have to trade the Veng Air on the other EG for the Slant to shave +1 lb off the front. Epic xc-ish type rides lined up over the next few months. If a new 27.5 rear unfolds that's compatible with my old frames, that would be nice.. wil lhave lots of swapping options on both with just a pr of new wheels.

    2.4 Trail King seems to be largest to clear out back (never seen 2.4 Ardent?).. think there would still be ~ .5" difference from front 27.5" HD.. might have to try this since we may have been "left out to dry"

    Would need lower rise bars and stay with 545mm external lower/flush upper. That would put the controls 1mm above the TT for me (perfection)

    27.5 Trail King 2.4 about to come out, gonna be killer rear tire.. EG (that we know) absolutely own the other frames out on the trail right now.. Veng coil/coil..mmmstompage
  • 04-27-2013
    Hösö
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    even if someone who gets one posts their geo.

    Brant send me a mail. 170mm lyrik "new" geo. I don't think this is so topsecret so here is what he told me:
    HA 66deg.
    STA 72deg
    BB drop 0mm, so BB height is half of Your wheel/tyre combo.

    I think this sounds good. :)

    And meaby I'm ass and bad customer. But all I'm thinking is, why I can't have frame first and fork after, when it comes... That's all!
  • 04-27-2013
    motochick
    I was told by Brant the new geo is 6 months out. Maybe Brant could reply to this thread and clarify which frames have what geo and where they are and when they be for sale. Every time I read something on this subject I get more confused.
  • 04-29-2013
    anvil_den
    diff hoops for diff scoops...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    2.4 Trail King seems to be largest to clear out back (never seen 2.4 Ardent?).. think there would still be ~ .5" difference from front 27.5" HD.. might have to try this since we may have been "left out to dry"

    Would need lower rise bars and stay with 545mm external lower/flush upper. That would put the controls 1mm above the TT for me (perfection)

    27.5 Trail King 2.4 about to come out, gonna be killer rear tire.. EG (that we know) absolutely own the other frames out on the trail right now.. Veng coil/coil..mmmstompage

    Been on 2.4 Ardents for 2 yrs... no problem. loving my 2.35 Hands Dampf rear now.
    Always like my fatbike and after watching this, I'm wondering if we'll ever see a fEG, knowing somebody here is anything but conventional ;) Right Brant?
  • 05-01-2013
    J:
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anvil_den View Post
    Yea 15mm sucks but have to trade the Veng Air on the other EG....

    Just re-read, you have the veng air? You ever try changing HLR air to coil conversion inside the veng ?
  • 05-01-2013
    Broadica
    3 Attachment(s)
    replacement frame bb
    finally got my new replacement frame build up.
    running a fox 36 160mm up front.

    Attachment 795432Attachment 795433

    also noticed the new brake tab now have a much longer welding to the seat stay
    Attachment 795434
  • 05-01-2013
    anvil_den
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Just re-read, you have the veng air? You ever try changing HLR air to coil conversion inside the veng ?

    Have both.
    Yes, done the conversion for someone before... you need the coil and the top cap which of course doesn't have the air valve. Idiot-proof swap..
  • 05-01-2013
    rottenronny
    I understand the a2c for those forks is 545mm. Would that be correct?

    Can you put a tape measure on that to show us the BB drop?

    Thanks.
  • 05-01-2013
    Broadica
    yes.. fox 36 a2c is 545mm.
    my drop is about 2mm.
  • 05-01-2013
    nhodge
    how 'bout making real simple...what's the BB height?
  • 05-01-2013
    rottenronny
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    how 'bout making real simple...what's the BB height?

    Would that not be more variable according to wheel/tire selection rather than frame/fork geometry?
  • 05-01-2013
    rottenronny
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Broadica View Post
    yes.. fox 36 a2c is 545mm.
    my drop is about 2mm.

    Thanks for your quick reply.

    Pardon me for questioning your judgement, but on checking your photo it appears that it may be a little lower than 2mm? Hard to tell from my end.