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  1. #1
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    Where did it go...is the issue resolved

    I may be blind????? But I swear I saw a post that featured a cracked carbon seatsaty from a racer x a couple of hours ago. Where did it go, has the issue been resolved?
    My wife thinks I am nuts for spending this much on a bike. I tell her I think I am nuts for spending that much on her Diamond ring!

  2. #2
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    You are correct - the post has vanished

  3. #3
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    yeah, I was thinkin that too. Maybe some die hard Titus fan didn't want everyone to find out that someone got a cracked carbon seatstay, so went inside and deleted it. I hope it was just a fluke and they didn't go in and delete the post. That would be just wrong. Fact is fact. No company is perfect, hence things happen.

    Maybe a Yeti ASR-SL fan will come in here and bash Titus now.

    "Prison sports are really fun. I get used as a frisbee, a dartboard, and a second base!" - Kneemoi

  4. #4
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    True, that is real odd. Only a mod could do that.............. Warp, can you shed any light on the matter..................Real odd, there was no untoward wording etc on there, the dude wa not p i s s e d with Titus..................

    mmmmmmmm somethings rotting in Denmark....
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  5. #5
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    Rumour Control....

    Hi guys!

    The thread is gone under Original Poster's request.

    It was his thread and he wanted it deleted.

    No shady stuff.

    Regards,
    Warp

    EDIT... As far as I understand, the issue will be resolved to his entire satisfaction, but giving any more details or not is his sole discretion.
    Check my Site

  6. #6
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    Actually I decided to ask Warp to delete the post. I agree with you Daffunda that things happen, and the isolated incident that I dealt with in no way reflects the quality of a 06 Racer X design. I think it was evident from my original post that I never intended to imply that. I'm not apologizing for the original post because there is nothing wrong with posting MY experience with MY bike. At the same time I didn't want an unfair smear campaign to start because of it either so I asked that it be pulled.


    BTW - As most of you could have guessed they are going to send me a new replacement upper right away. Actually they are sending it overnight.
    "You can't discern by calculating in your mind how it will work. You have to feel how it rides differently to understand."

  7. #7
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    Now if you'll excuse me my local bike shop loaned me a Maverick ML7 to use for a couple of days and I'm gonna go tear it up!
    "You can't discern by calculating in your mind how it will work. You have to feel how it rides differently to understand."

  8. #8
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    Geez, we're getting as bad as the homers here with all the innuendo and conspiracy theories (oh no Jerk will jump me for this comment). TitusJeff posted that problem was addressed, so problem is being resolved. Considering nothing is 100% in this world, one case of a issue (which has been resolved) should not cause all of us to start thinking armageddon is around the corner. Poster did a good job asking thread to be pulled as a question sometimes causes a witchhunt.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    Geez, we're getting as bad as the homers here with all the innuendo and conspiracy theories (oh no Jerk will jump me for this comment). TitusJeff posted that problem was addressed, so problem is being resolved. Considering nothing is 100% in this world, one case of a issue (which has been resolved) should not cause all of us to start thinking armageddon is around the corner. Poster did a good job asking thread to be pulled as a question sometimes causes a witchhunt.
    WORD!

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnk1975
    BTW - As most of you could have guessed they are going to send me a new replacement upper right away. Actually they are sending it overnight.
    Wow, that is impressive. Shows how they care about the customers. Are they sending just the rear triangle or the whole frame?
    "Prison sports are really fun. I get used as a frisbee, a dartboard, and a second base!" - Kneemoi

  11. #11
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    I read that this morning. I thought the response from Titus was a little strange. The Titus guy basically said "Titus would appreciate you contacting us first about a broken Titus rather than posting it for the world to see and then contacting Titus". Definitely came across to me as a Titus CYA post but I understand where they are coming from. The way I read it was "please don't tell people you broke a carbon seatstay on a Racer-X, we don't know if there is a probelm with the carbon stays yet, and we sure don't want potential new customers to see a broken carbon stay until we do know if there is a problem or not, let's keep this between us for now mmmmmmmmmk".

    I guess I would rather see both. Post it for the world to see and then post updates on how Titus is treating the problem and whether or not it is a one of a kind breakage or if it is something other Racer-X owners need to keep an eye out for. That way good, bad or ugly the story gets told. Now with the post being deleted we'll never know the whole story unless an update thread is posted.

    My $0.02

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  12. #12
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    Just want to say thanks for clearing up the issue. By no meens was I looking to start trouble, Although I have a vested interest in the subject. I have a 24hr starting Sat with my ride getting tweaked right now at the shop. I found some play in the rear....just the wheel. But will look at the carbon tomorrow.

    Have fun on the Mav.
    My wife thinks I am nuts for spending this much on a bike. I tell her I think I am nuts for spending that much on her Diamond ring!

  13. #13
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    Well said Bortis!!. I noticed the post, and would still like to know if it was a manufacturing defect or a field failure. Of course, no manufacturer ever wants failures publicized, but this kind of info shows up here all the time. Original poster, it is your right to delete, but ask yourself what if everyone reacted this way and pulled information back from the public? I have a new Titus RX by the way, and for anyone interested in knowing, it is absolutely one of the finest bikes available in the world.

  14. #14
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    I think this is more of the Titus board "cover up" attitude we see here. Even though the issue is resolved, people should see it, as this is a consumer site. The problem could even be a simple case of one in the whole batch, but people should still know what happened. Titus CS resolved it and it's done.

  15. #15
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    Interesting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I think this is more of the Titus board "cover up" attitude we see here. Even though the issue is resolved, people should see it, as this is a consumer site. The problem could even be a simple case of one in the whole batch, but people should still know what happened. Titus CS resolved it and it's done.

    With the exception of the first sentence, you've got an excalent point...


    I need to go lye down.

  16. #16
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    You know what, there was a series of pictures of an blue Industry Nine front wheel exploding from under some guy doing a hard turn in a full face helmet in what must have been a race. I was telling somebody about it, and spent way too long looking for it again. But, no luck... either I'm slipping or those have been removed as well.

  17. #17
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    Well, if anything, they lead to good discussions here and the manufacturers are given a public forum with perhaps the shortest and best route to the consumers. I9 went on the Turner board to give their side of their product, to the satisfaction of many. This in depth info would not have ever been known if it wasn't for those threads. Simple things as unadvertised features and spoke wrench sizes, to how they engage. Titus should embrace this and truthfully, at that. So should the board members here.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    You know what, there was a series of pictures of an blue Industry Nine front wheel exploding from under some guy doing a hard turn in a full face helmet in what must have been a race. I was telling somebody about it, and spent way too long looking for it again. But, no luck... either I'm slipping or those have been removed as well.


    I saw that pic... It's gone???

  19. #19
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    All good points. Obviously I am not a designer and I can only guess at what the problem was. I think the folks at Titus would be much better suited to provide an answer but should be given the benefit of being able to see the seat stay in person before doing so. The idea that they would try to cover something up is laughable to me - I think we can all agree that they have proven they know a thing or two about how to build bikes.
    Last edited by Ridin'Dirty; 08-17-2006 at 06:51 PM.
    "You can't discern by calculating in your mind how it will work. You have to feel how it rides differently to understand."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnk1975
    All good points. Obviously I am not a designer and I can only guess at what the problem was. I think the folks at Titus would be much better suited to provide an answer but should be given the benefit of being able to see the seat stay in person before doing so. The idea that they would try to cover something up is laughable to me - I think we can all agree that they have proven they know a thing or two about how to build bikes.
    Who? Vyatek? What they do is clearly written on their site, as well as their intent with not keeping Chris around and in going with Pat Hus.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnk1975
    All good points. Obviously I am not a designer and I can only guess at what the problem was. I think the folks at Titus would be much better suited to provide an answer but should be given the benefit of being able to see the seat stay in person before doing so. The idea that they would try to cover something up is laughable to me - I think we can all agree that they have proven they know a thing or two about how to build bikes.
    I am a composites design engineer and I have several guesses as to what the problem is/was, looked like a delamination, could be caused by porosity in the laminate, edge loading, and several other things. Unfortunately all my guesses will only be confirmed if we actually get to see more of them. Based on what I saw I expect to see more as time goes on, hopefully they get posted.

    B

    PS - as a composites guy these are the type of failures that scare me away from putting composites on my own mountain bike.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Who? Vyatek? What they do is clearly written on their site, as well as their intent with not keeping Chris around and in going with Pat Hus.


    What's your problem???

  23. #23
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    Good For You!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    I am a composites design engineer and I have several guesses as to what the problem is/was, looked like a delamination, could be caused by porosity in the laminate, edge loading, and several other things. Unfortunately all my guesses will only be confirmed if we actually get to see more of them. Based on what I saw I expect to see more as time goes on, hopefully they get posted.

    B

    PS - as a composites guy these are the type of failures that scare me away from putting composites on my own mountain bike.

    Is it me or is the Titus board the only one where if somebody has an honest problem, they've gotta get kicked in the balls. And have the quality of thier bikes entire line impuned quistiened, and dragged through the dirt.

    Hey Boretz, did you know Titus is not the only company making carbon stay's. Ya know theres also company's making whole carbon bikes. Was this you're dream, is this what you've been waiting for??? For one guy to finnally have what barly amounts to a crack, so you could pounce!

    Get over yourself...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    What's your problem???
    The lies on this particular board.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Who? Vyatek? What they do is clearly written on their site, as well as their intent with not keeping Chris around and in going with Pat Hus.
    We aren't talking about the Racer X anymore then? You just said in an earlier post that these issues lead to good points and discussions.
    "You can't discern by calculating in your mind how it will work. You have to feel how it rides differently to understand."

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Is it me or is the Titus board the only one where if somebody has an honest problem, they've gotta get kicked in the balls. And have the quality of thier bikes entire line impuned quistiened, and dragged through the dirt.

    Hey Boretz, did you know Titus is not the only company making carbon stay's. Ya know theres also company's making whole carbon bikes. Was this you're dream, is this what you've been waiting for??? For one guy to finnally have what barly amounts to a crack, so you could pounce!

    Get over yourself...
    Unfortunately I'm gonna take your bait. Sorry pal.

    Yes I am aware of other companies making carbon bikes and stays, and Trek has had many many broken OCLV frames. Don't ever take a small crack in a composite for granted, even a tiny scratch for that matter. When composites fail they fail catastrophically.

    Sorry if I am passionate enough about my career to take interest in my free time when I see composites fail. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some folks on these boards know some things about stuff that might be relavent and even helpful even though they don't align themselves with your view of the issue? Wasn't trying to knock Titus in my post and I thought that was pretty clear, I was just adding my $0.02. Until I get the all mighty Blackanus approval to post in the Titus board I'll steer clear, even if I may be able to provide some helpful information.

    Over and out,
    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    Unfortunately I'm gonna take your bait. Sorry pal.

    Yes I am aware of other companies making carbon bikes and stays, and Trek has had many many broken OCLV frames. Don't ever take a small crack in a composite for granted, even a tiny scratch for that matter. When composites fail they fail catastrophically.

    Sorry if I am passionate enough about my career to take interest in my free time when I see composites fail. Did it ever occur to you that maybe some folks on these boards know some things about stuff that might be relavent and even helpful even though they don't align themselves with your view of the issue? Wasn't trying to knock Titus in my post and I thought that was pretty clear, I was just adding my $0.02. Until I get the all mighty Blackanus approval to post in the Titus board I'll steer clear, even if I may be able to provide some helpful information.

    Over and out,
    B
    I have to agree. I took no offense to your post and actually appreciate the input. It shouldn't matter to us that we all prefer our own rides, and brands for that matter. I doubt Titus, Turner, Ventana or Next has any delusions of catering to EVERYONES tastes. I'll ride my bike and you ride yours

    Trying to knock someone for their choices and disprove their belief that they have a great bike is pretty lame though, and wrong on many levels.
    "You can't discern by calculating in your mind how it will work. You have to feel how it rides differently to understand."

  28. #28
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    [QUOTE=Bortis . Until I get the all mighty Blackanus approval to post in the Titus board I'll steer clear, even if I may be able to provide some helpful information.

    Over and out,
    B[/QUOTE]



    Seeing as how the only time you ever see fit to post here, is when the bashing's starts up... then that would be wise.



    If on the off chance you were actually trying to be helpful??? ... Well time will tell.

  29. #29
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    BY - I would agree. I thought the post was strange. Actually it pi$$ed me off. I did not like Titus implying that the proper course of action is to call them before you post your problem (paraphrasing). If I want to post an issue I will do so. One of the benefits of the forums is to learn about issues and problems - I find that to be very valuable. I would think a bike manufacturer would also be interested in feedback. I know the Turner folks are always very interested in addressing any issues and problems that arise on the Turner forum. I have owned 7 Titus bikes and they are high quality high performance bikes that fit my style of riding. It is wonderful that Titus fixed the problem immediately; however, the response from Titus could have been better articulated.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTBAZ
    BY - I would agree. I thought the post was strange. Actually it pi$$ed me off. I did not like Titus implying that the proper course of action is to call them before you post your problem (paraphrasing). If I want to post an issue I will do so. One of the benefits of the forums is to learn about issues and problems - I find that to be very valuable. I would think a bike manufacturer would also be interested in feedback. I know the Turner folks are always very interested in addressing any issues and problems that arise on the Turner forum. I have owned 7 Titus bikes and they are high quality high performance bikes that fit my style of riding. It is wonderful that Titus fixed the problem immediately; however, the response from Titus could have been better articulated.

    JT, you put that very well, IMHO...

  31. #31
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    I do agree the poster should have spoken to Titus first, but in this case, he did not, the post was there, and now someone basically went back to change history. It was there and it should have been left as a reference.

    I know I have said stuff to people on the Turner board to call first then post. It is ideal, but in this case, someone posted and no reason is good enough to remove it. Why? To make the process better for one while information seeking consumers are being shortchanged? Why? Because Vyatek's wishes are such?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I do agree the poster should have spoken to Titus first, but in this case, he did not, the post was there, and now someone basically went back to change history. It was there and it should have been left as a reference.

    I know I have said stuff to people on the Turner board to call first then post. It is ideal, but in this case, someone posted and no reason is good enough to remove it. Why? To make the process better for one while information seeking consumers are being shortchanged? Why? Because Vyatek's wishes are such?

    IMHO, it's a tuff call. The OP made a decision, wether it was the right one or not, it was his to make...

  33. #33
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    Can't erase history. As much as you bash people that have concerns or dissenting views, you can't erase history.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Seeing as how the only time you ever see fit to post here, is when the bashing's starts up... then that would be wise.



    If on the off chance you were actually trying to be helpful??? ... Well time will tell.
    Not only was I trying to be helpful and express my opinion, I was also hoping to get into a discussion on composite/aluminum bond interfaces and failure mechanisms, but the thread was removed and when it went it took my dream conversation with it.

    I think your "TITUSBASHOMETER" might need to be re-calibrated, it's awefully sensitive.

    For what it's worth, I've never seen a broken bike post removed from the Intense or Turner Forums. It also seems I am not the only one that thought the Titus response was odd, and I don't see you reacting to JTBAZ with the same hostility I received for saying basically the same thing.

    It might benifit you to lighten up a little when someone expresses a viewpoint counter to your own. You know what they say, opinions are like blackanuses.............................

    B
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro....

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    Why should someone have to call first? If someone has a legitimate issue and the post does not misrepresent an issue than I have no problem with a post regarding an issue. I am the customer and It is my perogative to discuss any legitimate issues/problems I have with a product. The business, if compelled, can respond to the post.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Can't erase history. As much as you bash people that have concerns or dissenting views, you can't erase history.

    Don't be so hard on yourself. History is just that... The past.

    You can alway's start fresh, and turn over a new leaf...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTBAZ
    Why should someone have to call first? If someone has a legitimate issue and the post does not misrepresent an issue than I have no problem with a post regarding an issue. I am the customer and It is my perogative to discuss any legitimate issues/problems I have with a product. The business, if compelled, can respond to the post.
    You don't have to call first. It is simply fair to call before posting.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Don't be so hard on yourself. History is just that... The past.

    You can alway's start fresh, and turn over a new leaf...
    Is that what you're pledging to do? Work on not spreading lies and not having a trigger finger the moment someone says something not aligned with your views of the Motolite?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Is that what you're pledging to do? Work on not spreading lies and not having a trigger finger the moment someone says something not aligned with your views of the Motolite?

    I only lie to women, and my mother "on occasion". As for my finger, it gets itchier every day... When it comes to informing my Mtb'ing brothers, of how I feel about what "for me" is the best ridding bike gawd ever made...

  40. #40
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    so you basically received so much pressure from Titus or the guys here to remove the post, that the result is you feel like you can't say anything negative having to do with the bike in this forum?

    wow, and i thought the SS crowd was cultish.

    i mean seriously, so what if something breaks, it happens, it's part of life, no reason to wave the magic wand of disappearing. it only makes it look more suspect like there is something to hide

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    so you basically received so much pressure from Titus or the guys here to remove the post, that the result is you feel like you can't say anything negative having to do with the bike in this forum?

    wow, and i thought the SS crowd was cultish.

    i mean seriously, so what if something breaks, it happens, it's part of life, no reason to wave the magic wand of disappearing. it only makes it look more suspect like there is something to hide
    Pretty much that's exactly what the Titus Nazis turned this board into. You should see the thread on the Yeti board that prompted them to invade, then turn the Yeti board into the satellite Titus board, even after being asked to leave. So after they stopped bashing, they began discussing the Motolite on the Yeti board of all places. They couldn't accept that some riders liked the 575 enough to choose it over the Motolite, so they took it as BASHING.

  42. #42
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    Huh... Cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    It might benifit you to lighten up a little when someone expresses a viewpoint counter to your own. You know what they say, opinions are like blackanuses.............................

    B

    But it took you THIS LONG! to come up with that???

    I'm not gonna call JT out on anything PERIOD! He's been very helpful to me and others in the past. As for what he and "you" said, I do agree.

    Now if my bashometer went off prematurly... my apolagies, and I hope this dosen't mean we can't be friends. And I'd also be very interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Pretty much that's exactly what the Titus Nazis turned this board into. You should see the thread on the Yeti board that prompted them to invade, then turn the Yeti board into the satellite Titus board, even after being asked to leave. So after they stopped bashing, they began discussing the Motolite on the Yeti board of all places. They couldn't accept that some riders liked the 575 enough to choose it over the Motolite, so they took it as BASHING.
    "invade"....haha. link please? i could use some more entertainment as i suck down these Fosters

    oh and don't worry about being OT, im sure this thread will get deleted too

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    so you basically received so much pressure from Titus or the guys here to remove the post, that the result is you feel like you can't say anything negative having to do with the bike in this forum?

    wow, and i thought the SS crowd was cultish.

    i mean seriously, so what if something breaks, it happens, it's part of life, no reason to wave the magic wand of disappearing. it only makes it look more suspect like there is something to hide

    That's kinda the point...

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    "invade"....haha. link please? i could use some more entertainment as i suck down these Fosters

    oh and don't worry about being OT, im sure this thread will get deleted too
    Link

    Enjoy.

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    JC - talking about the pot calling the kettle black. I use to hang out on the Turner board - the same can be said about several of the Turner Homers.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    That's kinda the point...

    Why do you guys even take JC's bait? Let him troll if that makes him happy.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Why do you guys even take JC's bait? Let him troll if that makes him happy.

    I felt sorry for him...

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Why do you guys even take JC's bait? Let him troll if that makes him happy.
    "bait"=fact

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    Quote Originally Posted by ORYX
    I may be blind????? But I swear I saw a post that featured a cracked carbon seatsaty from a racer x a couple of hours ago. Where did it go, has the issue been resolved?
    Amigos
    Some people like myself are hesitant with CF despite the vast use in MTB. Any info is interesting and should be open as we mostly come here to learn other people experience.
    My nice CF (first ever had) FSA handle bar broke after 6 weeks of light use and 0 crashes. It may be a defect or an initial scratch as suggested by BY and I realy hope my new one will last much longer, but it never happend to me before (10 years of experience).

    Now it happend not only with Titus. Here is a thread describing a broken 575 CF pivot:

    "so my 575 is broken"
    So, my 575 is broken:/

    No one has removed this thread and it's for the benefit of all of us.

    Jeff Titus's response was very strange to me and I don't see how it can be justified from our (riders/customers) point of view.
    Please consider my reply as a friendly response.
    GB

  51. #51
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    What was Titus's response? The post was gone before I could read it.
    My wife thinks I am nuts for spending this much on a bike. I tell her I think I am nuts for spending that much on her Diamond ring!

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    good question, i never saw it either. seems like they prefer to leave everyone in the dark and raise more doubt, instead of being forthcoming.

    i am seriously considering an ML too, but shady stuff like this doesn't exactly help tip the scales in favor
    Last edited by salimoneus; 08-18-2006 at 04:38 AM.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    good question, i never saw it either. seems like they prefer to leave everyone in the dark and raise more doubt, instead of being forthcoming.

    i am seriously considering an ML too, but shady stuff like this doesn't exactly help tip the scales in favor
    reading through the posts, the bike owner decided to pull the post. Never did he feel pisses at Titus.

    I think Titus mentioned that he could have phoned Titus prior to posting the defect etc. I didnt at all get the impression that they said remove the post.

    it is an odd thing. Nobody will dis a company for these things, normal in business really.
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  54. #54
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    well when you think about it, situations like this allow a company to really shine and demonstrate how well they take care of their customers. for example in the broken Yeti thread here is the last post that someone made there:

    so i got to tell y'all that in the next day or two i will be purchasing my first yeti. when i saw this thread i got a little worried. after i read through the thread, i felt completely fine. i can't say how awesome it is to hear how good these guys are at yeti and how well they deal with issues involving their product. it makes dropping the coin that much easier.
    that sounds like a smart consumer and potential customer that knows the value of good service. many times with high end products, there is so little difference between the products that it's the human aspects that tip the scales one way or another.

    knowing this there is no reason anyone at Titus should be concerned that someone made a post about a problem, as long as they follow up with a resolution, it can only help their image. if anyone did count that as a mark against the company, they most likely weren't a potential customer to begin with.
    Last edited by salimoneus; 08-18-2006 at 05:44 AM.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    well when you think about it, situations like this allow a company to really shine and demonstrate how well they take care of their customers. . . .

    that sounds like a smart consumer and potential customer that knows the value of good service. many times with high end products, there is so little difference between the products that it's the human aspects that tip the scales one way or another.

    knowing this there is no reason anyone at Titus should be concerned that someone made a post about a problem, as long as they follow up with a resolution, it can only help their image. if anyone did count that as a mark against the company, they most likely weren't a potential customer to begin with.
    I hav a 2006 Racer X and have had 2 issues with i. One should be resolved soon after 4 months of waiting. Theother was blown off for the time being as not important to the function of the bike and just cosmetic although a manufacturing defect. I totally agree with you comments and based on the handling of issues and the corporate direction they seem to be heading in I doub't I will be buying another Titus. As said there is little real world difference in performance or cost in the high end bikes but it has to do with the community and treatment the company fosters.

    Taking down the original post was the wrong direction as well and for Titus to imply they didn't like the info posted is a red flag for me.
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  56. #56
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    This is really odd, have to agree. Why would a company, like Titus reply to a costumer that he should not have put his problem in the forum before he calls them.? If they did so, it was defenetly a mistake, I can imagine it was a mistake of an employee only..
    One broken anything will not destroy the reputation of the company IMHO.
    Strange.
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    While we're on the subject of broken bikes, I broke the drive side seat stay on my Moto-Lite a few weeks ago. It was covered up with a tube and electrical tape, so I don't know exactly when it broke, I didn't notice right away. I wasn't "gentle" with the frame, but I wasn't riding outside it's limits either. I think it was probably a defect.

    Titus handled the problem very well. They sent the new seatstays immediately and I was back riding within a week.

    I will probably be buying a racer-x next spring.

  58. #58
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    I agree that Titus' response to the Racer-x issue was wierd. From a manufacturer's standpoint, it must be difficult to come on these boards and try to make everyone happy. Probably just poor choice of words?

    I'm not around here that often and wasn't in a big hurry to post about the problem with my own frame. Titus handled it well. Hopefully mine is the only one.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBonty
    Now it happend not only with Titus. Here is a thread describing a broken 575 CF pivot:

    "so my 575 is broken"
    So, my 575 is broken:/
    A 5.75 travel trail bike with carbon joints/parts that is two years old... How long did he think it was going to last?

    If I am correct, you can still request the Racer X with the Aluminum stays. You won't have to worry about the carbon then. I was going to get a new Racer X next year but after hearing about more funny business from Titus I'm lookin at Ellsworth. Yes. I did say that and I did "go there."

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    It might benifit you to lighten up a little when someone expresses a viewpoint counter to your own. You know what they say, opinions are like blackanuses.............................

    B
    If you go to a person's profile you will find an ignore button. You will only see their posts if someone quotes them.
    I found nothing wrong with your post and wouldn't mind seeing more intelligent posts like it in the Titus forum.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braids
    If you go to a person's profile you will find an ignore button. You will only see their posts if someone quotes them.
    I found nothing wrong with your post and wouldn't mind seeing more intelligent posts like it in the Titus forum.

    Than why don't you make any??? Mr Yeltson "whatever" has also stated in the past he'd never post on the Titus board again, and I've never seen him post one posative thing in here. I also notice he had nothing more to add.

    But any time you yourself would like to come up with something "intelligent" please, go right ahead...

  62. #62
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    Blackagness,

    If you're looking to move forward from this point on and forget the past, go on with some of the things I, as well as others, have suggested. Commit to being civil, cooperative, accurate, and productive and things will move on and forward.

    Just keep in mind that you are not Titus. Let them and the bikes speak for themselves. If they are what you say, no explanation or unruly defense needed.

  63. #63
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    All right...

    I guess we have two separate issues here.

    1.- jsnk1975 had an issue. Posted it, decided to pull it off. Whatever his reason, it's HIS decision and I truly think we have to respect it.

    2.- Titus Jeff tried to explain the procedure for a Warranty Claim. Did he made a poor choice of words? That could be debated. I'm positive his intentions were good and he was trying to bring up the point Jerk Chicken brought up... you DON'T HAVE to call the manufacturer first, but it's the FAIR thing to do.

    All in all, the two issues were in the same thread, however, one is not related ot the other.

    Simple put. Titus Jeff tried to explain something and be helpful but maybe was not that clear or made a poor choice of words. jsnk1975 decided to pull his post out. Two separate issues that happened to happen in the same thread.

    No conspiracies. No shady stuff.
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    Let's look at Floyd

    I think the Floyd Landis situation is a perfect parallel to what is going on here. Irresposible reporting on behalf of the media and the lab that performed the test had all but proved him guilty before Floyd's B sample had even been tested. Isn't it fair to athlete to be notified about a positive test before they learn about it from the media? In this case apparently not.

    I think that's all Titus was trying to convey. To let them have the opportunity to see what's going on before going public. There's no reason to cause a panic for what may just be an isolated incident. I can only imagine what some of you would have said had the post stayed up..."look, a broken seat stay. Titus's quality is slipping now that Chris is gone!"

    None of us really know how this stay broke. For all we know this Racer X saw one too many 5ft drops (doubtful, but how do we really know). Why shouldn't we give the manufacturer (any manufacturer) the benefit of the doubt and let them figure it out first?

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AssClown
    I think the Floyd Landis situation is a perfect parallel to what is going on here. Irresposible reporting on behalf of the media and the lab that performed the test had all but proved him guilty before Floyd's B sample had even been tested. Isn't it fair to athlete to be notified about a positive test before they learn about it from the media? In this case apparently not.

    I think that's all Titus was trying to convey. To let them have the opportunity to see what's going on before going public. There's no reason to cause a panic for what may just be an isolated incident. I can only imagine what some of you would have said had the post stayed up..."look, a broken seat stay. Titus's quality is slipping now that Chris is gone!"

    None of us really know how this stay broke. For all we know this Racer X saw one too many 5ft drops (doubtful, but how do we really know). Why shouldn't we give the manufacturer (any manufacturer) the benefit of the doubt and let them figure it out first?
    Word... well put, AC.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp

    1.- jsnk1975 had an issue. Posted it, decided to pull it off. Whatever his reason, it's HIS decision and I truly think we have to respect it.

    2.- Titus Jeff tried to explain the procedure for a Warranty Claim. Did he made a poor choice of words? That could be debated. I'm positive his intentions were good and he was trying to bring up the point Jerk Chicken brought up... you DON'T HAVE to call the manufacturer first, but it's the FAIR thing to do.
    I missed the orginial post but I doubt it was actually attacking Titus quality but instead stating a fact about the stay problems.
    It's funny because it may have turned into a Titus CS success story if they had of just dealt with it properly and let the customer post the successful resolution to the problem. They really need help with customer service over there.

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    Hey Bortis,
    It would be interesting to have a “composites usage” discussion somewhere on MTB. People need to know about these things, when to be concerned about scratches, early tiny cracks, handlebars and helmets that have been heavily impacted or damaged, etc.

    I don’t know that, as you stated, it is completely true that “When composites fail they fail catastrophically”.
    I’m personally acquainted with the original Trek frame builders, whom I worked with in a professional materials engineering capacity in the past for many years, and they proved to the world that composites have a solid place in light weight structures, based on fatigue life, damage tolerance, and strength to weight ratio. Same for aircraft, ships, etc. etc. you get my point.

    I still appreciate your perspective though. And this thread should get people interested as it is much more important than just finding out “what rocks” in the MTB world, IMHO.
    Last edited by bayareamtnbiker; 08-22-2006 at 01:02 AM.

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    I also saw the post from Titus Ben for the brief time that it stayed up yestarday and also thought it quite strange. After then seeing today that the thread had been deleted, my curiosity has been piqued, so I have a question. It seems to me like the original "broke seatstay" thread was posted tuesday afternoon with jsnk_1975 saying that he was going to call Titus wednesday morning. By thursday afternoon titus was on the board declaring it an isolated incident. Does any one else think that one day (assuming he shipped it same day air) is insufficient time to do a structural failure analysis test conclusive enough to say that it is an isolated event? If I have the dates wrong, I appologize in advance. Not trying to bash titus, just wondering.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braids
    It's funny because it may have turned into a Titus CS success story if they had of just dealt with it properly and let the customer post the successful resolution to the problem. They really need help with customer service over there.
    Go back to the 1st page...They did deal with it properly and the original poster did post that he had successful resolution. It was a Titus CS success story, just other people ruined the thread. To say Titus needs CS help when JSNK1975 has a new stay in 24 hours is a stretch.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by AssClown
    Go back to the 1st page...They did deal with it properly and the original poster did post that he had successful resolution. It was a Titus CS success story, just other people ruined the thread. To say Titus needs CS help when JSNK1975 has a new stay in 24 hours is a stretch.
    I didn't see the orignal post and from what I understand someone from Titus posted something that was possibly inappropriate. Is that good customer service? Is that a success story? The "thread ruiners" would have looked like fools if the original thread would have stayed up I bet.

    Totally off topic here... but a friend and I have been talking offline and we're convinced that you either work for Titus and may even be Pat himself. Do you care to confirm or deny? There has been some customer service interaction and you've basically said verbatim via posts on here what was said in conversations and emails. Is it just coincidence?

    PS I may pull this post if my friend gives me crap for posting this so respond quickly.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_slf
    Does any one else think that one day (assuming he shipped it same day air) is insufficient time to do a structural failure analysis test conclusive enough to say that it is an isolated event? If I have the dates wrong, I appologize in advance. Not trying to bash titus, just wondering.
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

    1.- Titus has been selling this carbon stays Racer-X as a '06 model since late '05.
    2.- Racer-X's rear ends (as anything carbon/metal made at Titus) are handmade in Tempe's plant.

    Having in mind 1 and 2, I'd could also say it was an isolated incident.

    If it was a manufacturing defect, being the stays handmade, chances are is operator mistake (Please Boris or other composites expert, chime in if you see something I'm saying is wrong) and also, an isolated incident.

    If it was a material failure, I think that these carbon pieces are made in VERY small batches (if not one by one)... again, source for an isolated issue.

    If it was a flawed design, we had already heard about more cracked stays.

    There's also the possiblity of misuse or abuse, but jsnk1975 has stated that he uses this bike for RACING ONLY. The Racer-X is a race bike and it was used properly. So, I would rule out abuse/misuse.

    I think it's an isolated incident.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braids
    I didn't see the orignal post and from what I understand someone from Titus posted something that was possibly inappropriate. Is that good customer service? Is that a success story? The "thread ruiners" would have looked like fools if the original thread would have stayed up I bet.

    Totally off topic here... but a friend and I have been talking offline and we're convinced that you either work for Titus and may even be Pat himself. Do you care to confirm or deny? There has been some customer service interaction and you've basically said verbatim via posts on here what was said in conversations and emails. Is it just coincidence?

    PS I may pull this post if my friend gives me crap for posting this so respond quickly.

  73. #73
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    No, I don't work for Titus, but thanks for asking. I will say that Gus Schick (a former sales guy at Titus) is a good friend of mine and has given me an inside view of what's going on there. I may have paraphrased things that he has told me and that is why you may have gotten that idea.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    1.- Titus has been selling this carbon stays Racer-X as a '06 model since late '05.
    .
    Jan 2006 (Maybe Dec 26th 2005) was when we saw the first carbon rearts on a 2006 Bike.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayareamtnbiker
    Hey Bortis,
    It would be interesting to have a “composites usage” discussion somewhere on MTB. People need to know about these things, when to be concerned about scratches, early tiny cracks, handlebars and helmets that have been heavily impacted or damaged, etc.

    I don’t know that, as you stated, it is completely true that “When composites fail they fail catastrophically”. That doesn’t sound like a professional engineer. Neither does “these are the type of failures that scare me away from putting composites on my own mountain bike” sound like a design engineer’s response. I think that raised the ire of several people who wanted a piece of you.

    I’m personally acquainted with the original Trek frame builders, whom I worked with in a professional materials engineering capacity in the past for many years, and they proved to the world that composites have a solid place in light weight structures, based on fatigue life, damage tolerance, and strength to weight ratio. Same for aircraft, ships, etc. etc. you get my point.

    I still appreciate your perspective though. And this thread should get people interested as it is much more important than just finding out “what rocks” in the MTB world, IMHO.
    Warning, this is a long post, may bore many readers and is more of a reply to bayareamtnbiker as he politely called me out a little bit. But some of you might find some of it interesting.

    I too would like to see a composites discussion. But I'll throw out some info now as well. Unfortuneatly the best way to tell the structural integrity of a composite part after a crash or impact is often to use NDI (non-destructive inspection), typically that is done using ultrasonics and occasionally x-rays. The ultrasonic inspection is my personal favorite, you can scan an entire part and see delaminations, porosity, fractured resin, FOD (foreign object debris) and many other problems that are invisible to the eye but lead to premature failure in the part. However most people don't have access to the right tools to inspect thier own parts. If we open a discussion thread somewhere I would be happy to post pictures of what looks to be a good composite after a small impact, but when inspected via NDI shows it is an accident waiting to happen.

    90% of the time when composite fail it is catastrophic. What I mean by this is that composites (especailly carbon/thermoset resin) don't deform or crack to give you warning signs they are reaching or past their limit. The yeild strength and ultimate strength of carbon fiber composites (especially those with a thermoset resin) are typically the same or very close to one another. So you typically don't get a warning, it just goes. And since the parts are usually very strong, the amount of energy required to cause failure means that when it goes it goes big, sometimes with enough energy to vaporize the resin leaving only little carbon fibers remaining.

    Now for this statement “these are the type of failures that scare me away from putting composites on my own mountain bike”. I think current carbon fiber parts are great for XC and road bike use, uses where impacts are kept to a minimum. But MY mountain bike sees lots of impacts from flying rocks and when I happen to crash when I try stupid things. Most all current mountain bike composite parts and frames are made using carbon/epoxy laminates. Epoxy has terrible impact properties, even toughened epoxies are not what I would consider "tough enough" for the riding and crashing I do. When a carbon epoxy part is impacted the resin shatters like glass, sometimes on the surface so it is visible and you know to trash the part, but most of the time the resin deep in the laminate shatters leaving the surface looking fine, then as soon as you load the part the internal fibers no longer have the resin distributing the load from fiber to fiber and ply to ply in the laminate, you get a suprise failure.

    And now to address your final point. I have a lot of respect for the work Trek has done to introduce and refine composites in the bicycle industry. However, there is a long way to go before I feel they are ready for me and my riding. I disagree with a few parts of your statement "they proved to the world that composites have a solid place in light weight structures, based on fatigue life, damage tolerance, and strength to weight ratio". Trek didn't do this, the aerospace industry did, Trek just adopted a lot of that technology. And you are correct that composites are un-beatable in terms of weight, fatigue life and strength to weight ratio. You are not correct about damage tolerance, especially if you consider the materials (fibers and resins) currently being used in the bicycle industry. Even Trek knows not to use composites on freeride and DH bikes, only XC and road where impacts are rare and small. In order to make a composite part with what I would consider "excellent" damage tolerance, on par with metals, you would need to use a semi-crystaline thermoplastic resin rather than the typical epoxy thermoset resins which are too brittle, even the toughened epoxies. A thermoplastic resin such as polyamide (nylon) has a good modulus (stiffness) but not as high as an epoxy but has exponentially better impact properties than thermosets, which means you can impact these with similar impacts as metals without the problems you see with epoxy and other thermosets. However, these are difficult to process due to the high viscosity of the resin at it's molten stage (can't wet-out/impregnate the fiber properly), and materials are not widely available, and there are some creep issues at elevated temperatures. In order to get the best of both worlds you need to use PEEK (polyetheretherketone) resin, which costs more than silver by weight and has to be processed over 600 degrees F and often at pressures above 200 psi. When the cost of that resin and processing comes down to where they can make bike parts out of it affordably then you'll see me with composites on my bike.

    Composites get really tricky when you start to look at stiffness, strength, and toughness. There are very few composite materials that have great properties in all 3 of those areas, and the ones that do are far beyond the affordability of the average mountainbiker.

    I'll save the rest of my blather for a more focused and composite specific thread.

    Over and out,

    B

    PS, the Racer X failure looked to me like a delamination caused by edge loading of the laminate due to improper bonding with the aluminum dropout. But since I no longer have a phots to analyze it is just a theory based on 3 minutes of staring at a single image. Care for me to elaborate? Then repost the photo.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bortis Yelltzen
    The ultrasonic inspection is my personal favorite
    Mine too... but even on industrial environments (I've worked at a Steel Fabrications Shop, a Machining Shop, Erection of Gas Processing Plants, Power Plants, Aeroderivative and Industrial Frame Gas Turbines) Ultrasonic testing equipments are considered expensive.

    Unless you use it everyday, it's really expensive or simply very little cost effective.

    Thanks for the insight, BY.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by AssClown
    I think the Floyd Landis situation is a perfect parallel to what is going on here. Irresposible reporting on behalf of the media and the lab that performed the test had all but proved him guilty before Floyd's B sample had even been tested. Isn't it fair to athlete to be notified about a positive test before they learn about it from the media? In this case apparently not.

    Not the best analogy since his B sample also tested positive.
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    i'm pretty sure the OP had pressure put on him in some form, otherwise why would he decide to make a very detailed post one day and then go to the extent of requesting it be deleted the next, and then make a follow up comment that gives absolutely no details whatsoever. pretty obvious there was some heavy outside influence there

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    i'm pretty sure the OP had pressure put on him in some form, otherwise why would he decide to make a very detailed post one day and then go to the extent of requesting it be deleted the next, and then make a follow up comment that gives absolutely no details whatsoever. pretty obvious there was some heavy outside influence there
    Yeah... and the landing on the moon was filmed at a Holywood basement.

    If it was the manufacturer putting pressure on him, he can go back to the Better Bussiness Bureau and cleanly win a claim.

    I would not feel "pressured". I'd give it back to the manufacturer if they would try to screw me that way.

    Please stop those silly conspiracy theories.
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    Wow, I've never heard of what amounts to attempts
    at censorship coming from a bike manufacturer.
    Sounds like the management at Titus have become
    Tight-A$ses about anything negative being said about
    their bike. Theyre generating more negative publicity
    over this then the cracked carbon seat tube thread
    would have. I had posted a response in which I said
    that in mac-strut frames such as Titus builds, there
    is a high stress point in the seatstay since it is
    integral with the rear shock. IMHO, this is not a good
    place to put carbon fiber.
    Anyway, its kind of a bummer that Titus, like the
    republicans, is working so hard to keep information
    from customers, by pressuring someone to remove
    a thread about a cracked frame.
    Trust us, the comsumers with the info.
    Any frame can crack. Most of us are smart
    enough not to let news of a cracked frame dissuade us
    from buying the bicycle. I personally would stay away
    from a bike that is made of more than one kind of material,
    as this bike is, for longevity reasons, as I cannot afford
    to buy a new bike every year.
    Before I get flamed by the Titus devotees, let me
    assure you that I'm not trying to imply anything
    negative about the RX, I'm sure is a great bike.
    The bike is under warranty still, being an 06,
    and from what Ive heard on this forum, rides great;
    thats the most important thing.

  81. #81
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    So what is the whole story with this stay in question? What happened to it and what about the pics?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

    1.- Titus has been selling this carbon stays Racer-X as a '06 model since late '05.
    2.- Racer-X's rear ends (as anything carbon/metal made at Titus) are handmade in Tempe's plant.

    Having in mind 1 and 2, I'd could also say it was an isolated incident.

    If it was a manufacturing defect, being the stays handmade, chances are is operator mistake (Please Boris or other composites expert, chime in if you see something I'm saying is wrong) and also, an isolated incident.

    If it was a material failure, I think that these carbon pieces are made in VERY small batches (if not one by one)... again, source for an isolated issue.

    If it was a flawed design, we had already heard about more cracked stays.

    There's also the possiblity of misuse or abuse, but jsnk1975 has stated that he uses this bike for RACING ONLY. The Racer-X is a race bike and it was used properly. So, I would rule out abuse/misuse.

    I think it's an isolated incident.
    Could be isolated. Just to be factually correct, we should also
    mention that the front ends are made in Taiwan, and the carbon
    rear ends are still made in Tempe.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    Could be isolated. Just to be factually correct, we should also
    mention that the front ends are made in Taiwan, and the carbon
    rear ends are still made in Tempe.
    could be, but you'd think they would just come out and say it if that was the case (after having actually looked at the frame, not before as someone already pointed out) instead of people assuming the worst because the whole thing was swept under the rug

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