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  1. #1
    thats right living legend
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    Wheels... How They Relate To Riding HARD?

    Ok, so this is kinda my least favorite subject, cause I can never really seem to get my head around it "ie I know about wheels the least". I currently run a set of FSA XC 300s, and I have been very impressed. They look cool thier lite and so far have really been reliable. And for the price thier pretty incredible! But since I got the FR lowers a few months ago I've really loved the added stiffness and stability they've provided, and I think they'll help push my riding in the direction I want it to go... But, since I've gone with the bigger tires the lowers provide for, somethings missing, and I think I can track it to the wheels. My top priority is always lateral stiffness, and I'm wondering if anyone has any good advice/recomendations on a good, tough, reasonaby lite, affordable direction to go.

    I can't really afford a 6-700$ wheelset right now, but I'm thinkig mabye I'll go one wheel at a time. I'm also looking at trying out a new fork so a convertable hub would be something I'm looking for to open it up the options a little.

    So if anyboby has any advice/suggestions or even thoughts on the subject I'd really appreciate it, from my fellow Titan Bro's.

  2. #2
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    Hey Black

    I would give one vote to Chris King hubs with a decent rim (Mavic 819).

    I had a set of Daves Speeddreams. Chris Kings have incredible engagement and I love the buzz! Was very happy with them but the Bontrager rims where not rugged enough (had to send the rear back to get the rim replaced). Gave my women this set and got a set of Crossmax SL's. Now I have the opposite problem. I think the rims are bombproof but the hub engagement leaves more to be desired. Once my job situation stabilizes the SL's are going to find themselves on ebay and I'm going back to Chris King or an E13 nub with some bombproof rims.

    Chris

  3. #3
    thats right living legend
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    Thanks, Good Suggestion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris9702l
    I would give one vote to Chris King hubs with a decent rim (Mavic 819).

    I had a set of Daves Speeddreams. Chris Kings have incredible engagement and I love the buzz! Was very happy with them but the Bontrager rims where not rugged enough (had to send the rear back to get the rim replaced). Gave my women this set and got a set of Crossmax SL's. Now I have the opposite problem. I think the rims are bombproof but the hub engagement leaves more to be desired. Once my job situation stabilizes the SL's are going to find themselves on ebay and I'm going back to Chris King or an E13 nub with some bombproof rims.

    Chris

    Yeah, the 819's are looking like the way to go, though I really like the look of the DT 5.1's. But the 819s might be more affordable, the Kings could e pricey though...

  4. #4
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    Black,

    Talk to Chad at www.redbarnbicycles.com/. He'll set you up with a set of convertible Hope Pro2 hubs with a decent rim/spoke combo for a great price -- probably around $400 - $450.

    I think you'll notice a huge difference between a set of factory wheels and hand-built wheels.

    Good luck

  5. #5
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    For rims, I've been the most impressed, in terms of quality, by DT Swiss stuff. EX 5.1s would be great for running fatter rubber (2.4, 2.5ish) on the ML. (semi-OT, do the freeride lowers give more clearance than stock '06?) I've had opportunity to compare the DT stuff vs Mavic, WTB, Sun, Alex, FSA, and a bunch of others I can't remember, and imo Mavic's the only one of them that's close.

    Hubs... I don't know enough to be useful.

    Also, as noted by dulyebr, there is a very, very noticable difference between machine and hand built, even with the exact same parts. If you get boxed wheels, have a skilled wheelbuilder give them some love before they go on.

  6. #6
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Ok, so this is kinda my least favorite subject, cause I can never really seem to get my head around it "ie I know about wheels the least". I currently run a set of FSA XC 300s, and I have been very impressed. They look cool thier lite and so far have really been reliable. And for the price thier pretty incredible! But since I got the FR lowers a few months ago I've really loved the added stiffness and stability they've provided, and I think they'll help push my riding in the direction I want it to go... But, since I've gone with the bigger tires the lowers provide for, somethings missing, and I think I can track it to the wheels. My top priority is always lateral stiffness, and I'm wondering if anyone has any good advice/recomendations on a good, tough, reasonaby lite, affordable direction to go.

    I can't really afford a 6-700$ wheelset right now, but I'm thinkig mabye I'll go one wheel at a time. I'm also looking at trying out a new fork so a convertable hub would be something I'm looking for to open it up the options a little.

    So if anyboby has any advice/suggestions or even thoughts on the subject I'd really appreciate it, from my fellow Titan Bro's.
    Wow... tough call, Blackey.

    I think lateral stiffness is important, but can you really quantify it?

    I mean, how do you get lateral stiffness? Farther away flanges on hubs? Larger flanges? Thicker spokes?

    I'd take a thicker spoke if lateral stiffness was my priority.

    As for how much riding hard relates to using a strong wheelset... I dunno. Much relates to finesse.

    A buddy of mine rides what we would think are crappy wheels and he has them running true with almost no maintenance. He weighs more than me, rides a HT, rides faster than me... and I busted a wheel trying to bunnyhop a curb.

    I was reading one of shiggy's posts and he says (and I agree) that it's better to put money on the hubs... rims and spokes are rather consumable items.

    I'm after a nice and cheap wheelset... Maybe Hope XC's laced to Alex FD28's and 14g spokes. But I wass watching Mike's Garcia's site today (oddsandendos.com) and he has some really nice wheelsets made with WTB Laserdisc Light hubs. But WTB's have mixed reviews, while the Hopes have better reviews.
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  7. #7
    the 36 year old grom
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    I build my own wheels. totally not worth it from a time vs money stand point. but I'm stupid that way. I don't do anything fancy just three cross patern. I usually just copy a wheel I have laying around.

    its real handy to have a wheel truing stand and something to measure dish with.

    I over tighten my spokes. I do it to feel.... should reduce the life span but should make the wheel stiffer. but you need to choose a rim that can handle the extra tension.

    my mavic 823s and 819s have been perfect. my king hubs have been perfect. before that I just used whatever came with my bike.

    I think you get most of your flex from your tires. you may want a wide rim, should give the tire more leverage on the rim. I'm heavy so I generally run 35-40 PSI to avoid tire fold on my ML with 819s. stick with skinnier tires on the back with a skinny rim like the a 819.

    I use lower pressure on my SM (25psi). but run really thick tires and the 823s are a tiny bit wider.

  8. #8
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    I run Chris Kings with 819s, and they are AWESOME... it may be tough to get the Kings for your budget though...

  9. #9
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    I build my own wheels. totally not worth it from a time vs money stand point. but I'm stupid that way. I don't do anything fancy just three cross patern. I usually just copy a wheel I have laying around.

    its real handy to have a wheel truing stand and something to measure dish with.

    I over tighten my spokes. I do it to feel.... should reduce the life span but should make the wheel stiffer. but you need to choose a rim that can handle the extra tension.

    my mavic 823s and 819s have been perfect. my king hubs have been perfect. before that I just used whatever came with my bike.

    I think you get most of your flex from your tires. you may want a wide rim, should give the tire more leverage on the rim. I'm heavy so I generally run 35-40 PSI to avoid tire fold on my ML with 819s. stick with skinnier tires on the back with a skinny rim like the a 819.

    I use lower pressure on my SM (25psi). but run really thick tires and the 823s are a tiny bit wider.


    Yeah, the big tires only add to the flex on these rims, but my only complaint on this wheelset has been flex even running skinnier tires. I would have to say flex is my NUMBER ONE CONCERN... just my pet peave. To those who don't notice it, enjoy it, but I bet you'd notice if you tried a flexier wheele than your on now. Then it's all you'll think about.

    Dulybr... Thanks for the tip that's exactly what I need to do. Just tell the dude what I want and let him go.

  10. #10
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    819s and hugi 240 hubs - stiff, light, strong and they can be purchased for under $500.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Ok, so this is kinda my least favorite subject, cause I can never really seem to get my head around it "ie I know about wheels the least". I currently run a set of FSA XC 300s, and I have been very impressed. They look cool thier lite and so far have really been reliable. And for the price thier pretty incredible! But since I got the FR lowers a few months ago I've really loved the added stiffness and stability they've provided, and I think they'll help push my riding in the direction I want it to go... But, since I've gone with the bigger tires the lowers provide for, somethings missing, and I think I can track it to the wheels. My top priority is always lateral stiffness, and I'm wondering if anyone has any good advice/recomendations on a good, tough, reasonaby lite, affordable direction to go.

    I can't really afford a 6-700$ wheelset right now, but I'm thinkig mabye I'll go one wheel at a time. I'm also looking at trying out a new fork so a convertable hub would be something I'm looking for to open it up the options a little.

    So if anyboby has any advice/suggestions or even thoughts on the subject I'd really appreciate it, from my fellow Titan Bro's.
    If you're looking in the $400-$500 range then Hope is the best option IMO. The Bulb or Pro II rear with a ProII front laced to DT 5.1's is a great set for what you described.

    Larry
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Ok, so this is kinda my least favorite subject, cause I can never really seem to get my head around it "ie I know about wheels the least". I currently run a set of FSA XC 300s, and I have been very impressed. They look cool thier lite and so far have really been reliable. And for the price thier pretty incredible! (SNIP)
    I had the same wheels on my HH but even if they didn't have much problems (freehub slows in freezing conditions) I sold them and got more conventional wheelset, DT240/32xComps/Mavic717. Much more confidence in my wheels now - I had cheap XT wheelset for V's before FSA's on this bike so I had something to compare to and would now take any well made conventional wheelset over FSAs.

    Somehow FSA wheels rode strangely vaguely, even if differences in lateral stiffness should not be that great and weight is close to my DT wheelset. Impressively FSA's stayed completely true even if construction is against all common sense in wheelbuilding.

  13. #13
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by markom
    I had the same wheels on my HH but even if they didn't have much problems (freehub slows in freezing conditions) I sold them and got more conventional wheelset, DT240/32xComps/Mavic717. Much more confidence in my wheels now - I had cheap XT wheelset for V's before FSA's on this bike so I had something to compare to and would now take any well made conventional wheelset over FSAs.

    Somehow FSA wheels rode strangely vaguely, even if differences in lateral stiffness should not be that great and weight is close to my DT wheelset. Impressively FSA's stayed completely true even if construction is against all common sense in wheelbuilding.



    Somehow your discription makes perfict sense to me?

  14. #14
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    I am a big fan of the 717s - I have not made the transition to tubeless. The 240s and 717 are great. Magura has a wheelset that is 240 hubs on 717s. I believe Hammerheadbikes was selling them for $500. I was able to purchase a brand new set of the Magura's for $425 on Ebay.

  15. #15
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    450 for the set, hugi 240 14/15 black, 3x, alloy nipples, 317 rims, with skewers

    I am a HUGE fan of a handbuilt set of King/DTs

    We will run supercomps for lighter riders, 14/15s for heavier riders or guys more concerned with stiffness than a few grams.

    I run the x4.1d rims, love em
    they build up stiff
    I am a firm believer in having a stiff set of wheels, they make the bike ride better

    kings have gone up a bunch in price, but they have the engagement and they have a deserved rep for long term durability

    the hope IIs look good, but I haven't personally tried them
    I like the convertible front hub idea, 20mm to QR, though I did read there's a tad bit of (perhaps inconsequential) amount of play with their system

    I wish King would offer a convertible front hub, in today's fork market, it makes so much sense...

  16. #16
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    HH -What is the approximate weight of CK hubs laced to the 4.1 rims?

  17. #17
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTBAZ
    HH -What is the approximate weight of CK hubs laced to the 4.1 rims?
    Stupid light... a buddy of mine has a set like you say with Supercomps. The thing gets a fair rate of abuse with ease and weighs in nothing.

    I'd say somewhere 1700-1800grs... maybe less. They're both strong and light.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Ok, so this is kinda my least favorite subject, cause I can never really seem to get my head around it "ie I know about wheels the least". I currently run a set of FSA XC 300s, and I have been very impressed. They look cool thier lite and so far have really been reliable. And for the price thier pretty incredible! But since I got the FR lowers a few months ago I've really loved the added stiffness and stability they've provided, and I think they'll help push my riding in the direction I want it to go... But, since I've gone with the bigger tires the lowers provide for, somethings missing, and I think I can track it to the wheels. My top priority is always lateral stiffness, and I'm wondering if anyone has any good advice/recomendations on a good, tough, reasonaby lite, affordable direction to go.

    I can't really afford a 6-700$ wheelset right now, but I'm thinkig mabye I'll go one wheel at a time. I'm also looking at trying out a new fork so a convertable hub would be something I'm looking for to open it up the options a little.

    So if anyboby has any advice/suggestions or even thoughts on the subject I'd really appreciate it, from my fellow Titan Bro's.
    I have two wheelsets: Mavic 317 Disc on XT hubs and Mavic XC717 Disc on Hope Pro II hubs. The 317/XT wheels are 3 years old and have taken a hammering (although I'm only 140lbs, so that's a relative term). They have only recently gone out of true after a particularly hard whack which caused the inside if the rim to splinter and puncture every tube I put in - but they are still going strong. I have never touched the hubs and they still run sweet without any play.

    The 717/Pro II wheels are pretty new and I'm pretty pleased so far. Very light (about 1700g) and the hubs are reeeaaalll smooth. Pretty versatile too because they convert from q/r to 20mm thru-axle. They have had great reviews here in the UK (crappy conditions normal...). Lace them to Mavic 819s if you want UST. Hope are MUCH cheaper than King or DT Swiss and the rear freehub has a lovely sound from it. Mine cost UK 260 so I'm guessing $US 400 (skewers not included...)

    Hope this is useful.

  19. #19
    FM
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    Just a few thoughts on wheels....

    I've got King rear hubs on both my bikes. One is like 7 years old- bought before disc brakes were availabe, then I just swapped the guts to a new sheel when king disc hubs first came out. It's still going strong. But, I have to say, the king price increases have turned me off- especially since the competition is getting better and better- plus, the price of king replacement parts is ridiculous- $180 for fun-bolts?

    If I was starting from Scratch, I would consider Hadley or DT for hubs.

    Front hubs- making a good front hub isn't rocket science. This is a great area to save money as there is little performance difference between a king front hub and an XT. There are a few companies that make decent convertible front hubs- the ones on Azonic outlaws are fine, I've also seen some generic branded hubs at the LBS that convert betweeb QR and 20mm. Seems like a good idea unless you are already 20mm. I can also vouch that the marzocchi 20mm hub is decent and inexpensive.

    Rims, I am a big believer in UST. I run tubeless on both bikes, all the time. If you pick the right tires, you will pretty much never get flats, even with stupid low tire pressure. So that pretty much directs you to either Mavic XM819's or XM823's. I know lots of people who prefer the 823's even for XC, becuase they work better with wider tires. If you are over 200lbs or are generally hard on wheels, I'd get the 823, at least in back. I'm fine with 819's but do end up replacing them every 2 years.

    Double butted spokes are a waste of money IMHO. You save weight but lose stiffness, and it doubles the cost of spokes.... I run 2.0 (14g) spokes on all my wheels.

    So, for a budget wheelset I would go:
    hadley or DT rear hub, 32h
    generic convertible or marzocchi 20mm front hub, 32h
    2.0 spokes laced 3x, brass nipples
    Mavic XM819 rims (or 823s if you are bigger)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Somehow your discription makes perfict sense to me?
    Well, it doesn't make any sense to me now... but it might just be painkillers, I'm a sissy who can't bear broken ribs like real men would

  21. #21
    the 36 year old grom
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    the FSA 300s look good to me... the rear wheel is 3 cross. I guess 32 spokes. wheelsmith spokes. "hand built", this is aslong as an Artisian is not what they named the machine , I'm not seeing anything from that advert. that sticks out as the smoking gun or wiggly wheel.
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  22. #22
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    I have a few general thoughts.

    I'm going to avoid suggesting particular brands because it is the principles of building a stiff wheelset that is most important. I too build my own wheels and after 20+ year of playing around with wheels this is what I've discovered.

    1) I'm a firm believer the bigger volume tires require wider rims and there are many to choose from. 32 spoke minimum.
    2) Large diameter hub flanges will increase stiffness by reduing length of spokes.
    3) Traditional 3x lacing front and rear is still the best. Radial lacing is considered to build a stiffer wheel, but at greater risk of catesprophic failure. And this is a real NO NO with disc brakes these days.
    4) Try and use a combination of hubs and rims that minimize dish. Dished wheels are not in tensial equilibrium. Wheels are more likely to deflect in the direction of the greatest tension which is always the side of the wheel with shorter spokes. I still believe that Offset Spoke Bed (OSB) styled rims are the best for build both stiff and resilent wheels.
    5) On a FS bike I'd use straight gauge steel spokes 14 or 15 based on your weight.

    Hope this helps

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    the FSA 300s look good to me... the rear wheel is 3 cross. I guess 32 spokes. wheelsmith spokes. "hand built", this is aslong as an Artisian is not what they named the machine , I'm not seeing anything from that advert. that sticks out as the smoking gun or wiggly wheel.
    No, they have only 20/24 spokes, meaning that they stress "normal" (not magical Mavic alum spokes or anything special) spokes pretty hard.

    Anyway, mine were well build and did remain true during 10months I had them. I maintain that their design is not intelligent though...

  24. #24
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by markom
    No, they have only 20/24 spokes, meaning that they stress "normal" (not magical Mavic alum spokes or anything special) spokes pretty hard.

    Anyway, mine were well build and did remain true during 10months I had them. I maintain that their design is not intelligent though...
    dang, I thought it was a 32.......yup 24 spoke wheel

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Stupid light... a buddy of mine has a set like you say with Supercomps. The thing gets a fair rate of abuse with ease and weighs in nothing.

    I'd say somewhere 1700-1800grs... maybe less. They're both strong and light.
    First set was Onyx + regular DT spokes + 717. Worked well, but engagement sucked.

    Now, I got a set of CK+ DT revo spokes (very thin) + Stan Olympic rims. The whole set weighs maybe 1600gr and works great for me, BUT, I don't huck over 1 foot (and extremely rarely at that), and I weigh 160 before I shower in the morning. I would not recommend that set to a 190lb huckster.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  26. #26
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    I use 717s with XT hubs and they work fine so far. When I bought these wheels, I was looking at CKs and high end american manufacturers hubs, but then I thought I would not realize the difference between them and the XTs. Honestly is there any noticable difference in performance between an XT and a CK for instance ?
    Kovi

  27. #27
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    I got PRO2's on mavic 819's and im a big ass guy at 300lbs.

  28. #28
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by kovi
    Honestly is there any noticable difference in performance between an XT and a CK for instance ?
    Yep- the pick-up is immediate on King's, whereas with XT's you may notice that you pedal through a bit of a dead spot before the free-hub catches. If you compared the two hubs back-to-back, you would definately notice it.

    The only areas where I actually find it makes a difference, are really technical situations like skinnies, wheelie-drops, or rock gardens.

    OTOH, the drag of king hubs is... a drag. The chain gets sloppy when back-pedaling. You get used to it.Who really needs to back-pedal anyways?

  29. #29
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    Start with Hadley's

    Stiff frames will quickly identify weakness in other components. Combine that with big tires that get excellent traction and you will quickly feel any wheel flex. The FSA 300's are a great wheelset for xc racing, at 15g more than the crossmax sl, they are very light and a bargain. However, with only 24 spokes they just are not up to the task of heavy riding.

    A stiff wheel set will makes me appreciate the suspension of my titus's that much more. A good wheel setstarts with the components but the build controls how they will feel. I personally like a high tension wheel as they are very snappy and stiff, however they can sustain more damage under a high impact sharp hit than a lower tension wheel. Further a lower tension wheel is easier to true after a mishap, but I am willing to sacrafice that to a better feeling ht wheel.

    Hubs-Hadley
    I don't think the hadley hubs can be beat for price or performance. They simply have the best engagement of any hub I have ridden and will last a lifetime. They can be configured with many different axle combiniations making them very easy to upgrade if your needs change. There high/wide flanges make for a strong platform for lacing a wheel and there axles and bearings are as stiff as can be.

    Rims-DT, Syncros
    I really like the DT rims. They can hold a higher tension than the competition and build up super strong. There 5.1 is a perfect rim for trail riding with meatie tread.

    The Syncros DS/DP rims are a bargain and build up very well. It is nice to save a few $$$ every now and again.

    Spokes-15g
    If your goal is a stiff wheel, why build it with light flexy butted spokes ment for xc. A 3x is not sexy but is the best for strength. There are some that believe that anodized spokes and nipples are weaker than standard. I can't tell a difference.

  30. #30
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    Probably not the most popular choice, but American Classic has been serving me well. Further, It helped me shaved some weight with my ML....specially after I changed the spokes to DT...

  31. #31
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAO
    Stiff frames will quickly identify weakness in other components. Combine that with big tires that get excellent traction and you will quickly feel any wheel flex. The FSA 300's are a great wheelset for xc racing, at 15g more than the crossmax sl, they are very light and a bargain. However, with only 24 spokes they just are not up to the task of heavy riding.

    A stiff wheel set will makes me appreciate the suspension of my titus's that much more. A good wheel setstarts with the components but the build controls how they will feel. I personally like a high tension wheel as they are very snappy and stiff, however they can sustain more damage under a high impact sharp hit than a lower tension wheel. Further a lower tension wheel is easier to true after a mishap, but I am willing to sacrafice that to a better feeling ht wheel.

    Hubs-Hadley
    I don't think the hadley hubs can be beat for price or performance. They simply have the best engagement of any hub I have ridden and will last a lifetime. They can be configured with many different axle combiniations making them very easy to upgrade if your needs change. There high/wide flanges make for a strong platform for lacing a wheel and there axles and bearings are as stiff as can be.

    Rims-DT, Syncros
    I really like the DT rims. They can hold a higher tension than the competition and build up super strong. There 5.1 is a perfect rim for trail riding with meatie tread.

    The Syncros DS/DP rims are a bargain and build up very well. It is nice to save a few $$$ every now and again.

    Spokes-15g
    If your goal is a stiff wheel, why build it with light flexy butted spokes ment for xc. A 3x is not sexy but is the best for strength. There are some that believe that anodized spokes and nipples are weaker than standard. I can't tell a difference.


    Man that was really well put, and concise. I couldn't agree more with what you said about the FSA's, the good and the bad "for my particular use". I gotta say I also agree with everything else you said " the spoke thing, I don't know... me stupid". Honestly based entirely on what's been said here, I've narrowed my choices down to the Mavic 819's and DT 5.1's for rims. In my heart of hearts I'd really like the 5.1's the only consideration is the tubless compatability thing, it's my understanding they arn't. And that's something I could live without, but would like to try?

    Man ya'll have really given "me" some good info here. Seriously, of all the threads I've read on wheels this is the only one that's really gotten through to me. It's like ya'll knew who you were talking to. Wow, Enduser, FM, Zorg, Stuarti, JT and of course Vantenerama, and HH, just to name a few, and NO I've forgotten no one ""you know length". I have NO DOUBT I am about less than 1% of the people you've helped.

    You guy's have never let me down and ya'll sure as hell didn't this time! I'm really starting to get excited "now " knowing alittle about what I'm doing, and I might actually be able to afford a decent highly regarded wheelset... Now I gotta go get in touch with Ventanarama and Charls and see what's up!

  32. #32
    CAO
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    If your into the tubeless setup the 819's are ready to go, however, it is a little harder to get the tire bead to seat if running a tube. This can be an experience out on the trail with a mini pump or co2.

    DT bought Eclipse a year or two ago and they have a tubeless kit for there rims. So they can be used either way.

    I just can't wrap my mind around using a sealant that melts the rubber on the tire to the rim to create seal. How can that be good, and when does the solvent stop melting the rubber?

  33. #33
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    It's my understanding that when using a stout rim like the 819 or 5.1, you can get away with using lighter, butted spokes and still have a plenty stiff wheel. Look at the new Scott Ransom. It uses Revolutions (1.8/1.5/1.8) up front, and SuperComps in the rear, all with massive brake rotors.

    I also remember reading on Mtbr that a butted spoke not only saves weight, it actually makes the wheel stronger since it allows the spokes to share the stress more evenly.

    I went from 819s with Comps 2.0/1.8//2.0 with brass nipples to 819s with SuperComps (2.0/1.7/1.8) with alum nipples, which saved about 100g. I really didn't notice any difference in stiffness.

    My next wheelset:

    Mavic XM819 Disc Rims 950g
    Chris King Heavy-Duty Rear Hub w/Fun Bolts (aluminum drive shell) 364g
    Chris King Front 20mm Front Hub 194g
    Sapim Cx-Ray Spokes 284g
    Sapim Polyax Aluminum 14mm Nipples 23g
    Total 1815g
    Last edited by dulyebr; 06-29-2006 at 09:20 PM.

  34. #34
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    Some fantastic posts here on this great topic.. My almost 2 cents worth..

    On my FR bikes have always run Hadleys, magic hubs, awesome engagement and bomb proof, I think for FR & DH type applications they are better and stronger than CK hubs. I have had two sets of 823 rims, never had a problem. I only run UST. HATE tubes. I see more people now running 823s on AM type scooters now also. Have always used DT spokes.

    On the AM bike I had the ID, I ran CK hubs with Bonty Mustang rims......... These have been fantastic all round...

    Then as you know, on the MotoLite I have the I9 hobs and spokes on DT 5.1 rims. Thus far am real pleased, have not at all had a huge amount of time, but am liking the feel of the rims. Along with all the positive comments on the threads re the 5.1s, a good choice.

    I agree totally with FM, the rare hub is far more important than the front. With either CK, Hadley or I9 high cost, i would put more money in the rare and less in the front...

    I totally think it comes down to the wheel build also........... I mean it is a feast of free info on here on great wheel builders. Chads name comes up constantly, from myself not at all beign int he US of A, Chads name has come up a huge amount for wheels. Clark at BikeSmith in New Zealand builds a mean wheel set. He built my CK / Bonty Mustang wheels, never had an issue with trueness in a massive amount of ride time........

    I think what ever you do, get them hand built. I noticed on EBay there was guy in Canada selling CK hubs real cheap, with good feedback too, could be an option........

    Its all about engagement really, I love the engagement of hubs far better than the engagement to woman though..........:
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    This has got me thinking

    Since I got my Switchblade I have been riding my lowly Rolf Dolomite disc wheel set. Maybe it's just because the blade is such an improvement over my previous bikes, but I have not noticed any lack of stiffness. I don't think they are particularly light, but they are only 24 spokes.
    But after reading this thread, my curiosity is perked up. I am going to throw my 36 spoke wheel set (rhynolite front & D521 rear) on there for my next ride, and see if I can notice a difference

    I bought the Rolf set in desperation when nothing else was available, and didn't expect them to last long but I have been pleasantly surprised.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endo Often
    Since I got my Switchblade I have been riding my lowly Rolf Dolomite disc wheel set. Maybe it's just because the blade is such an improvement over my previous bikes, but I have not noticed any lack of stiffness. I don't think they are particularly light, but they are only 24 spokes.
    But after reading this thread, my curiosity is perked up. I am going to throw my 36 spoke wheel set (rhynolite front & D521 rear) on there for my next ride, and see if I can notice a difference

    I bought the Rolf set in desperation when nothing else was available, and didn't expect them to last long but I have been pleasantly surprised.
    That would be a great experiment, would be interested iin the results. It will throw all caution to the wind if the 24 spoke wheels set rides better than the 36 spoke wheel set.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  37. #37
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    Hmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    It's my understanding that when using a stout rim like the 819 or 5.1, you can get away with using lighter, butted spokes and still have a plenty stiff wheel. Look at the new Scott Ransom. It uses Revolutions (1.8/1.5/1.8) up front, and SuperComps in the rear, all with massive brake rotors.

    I also remember reading on Mtbr that a butted spoke not only saves weight, it actually makes the wheel stronger since it allows the spokes to share the stress more evenly.

    I went from 819s with Comps 2.0/1.8//2.0 with brass nipples to 819s with SuperComps (2.0/1.7/1.8) with alum nipples, which saved about 100g. I really didn't notice any difference in stiffness.

    My next wheelset:

    Mavic XM819 Disc Rims 950g
    Chris King Heavy-Duty Rear Hub w/Fun Bolts (aluminum drive shell) 364g
    Chris King Front 20mm Front Hub 194g
    Sapim Cx-Ray Spokes 284g
    Sapim Polyax Aluminum 14mm Nipples 23g
    Total 1815g


    I like that, and to me, that;s gotta be the ideal wieght...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I like that, and to me, that;s gotta be the ideal wieght...
    Indeed those bits n bobs would make a mean wheel set, the handbuilt part is what counts, its an art form remember......................Must find that link for ya to those uber cheap well priced CK hubs, still CKs are not cheap, but the lasting performance is what you are paying for I guess


    Its all about engagement really, I love the engagement of hubs far better than the engagement to woman though..........
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  39. #39
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Indeed those bits n bobs would make a mean wheel set, the handbuilt part is what counts, its an art form remember......................Must find that link for ya to those uber cheap well priced CK hubs, still CKs are not cheap, but the lasting performance is what you are paying for I guess


    Its all about engagement really, I love the engagement of hubs far better than the engagement to woman though..........

    Hey, that link would be sweet... But you know how it is, so it's cool.

    Thanks man!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Hey, that link would be sweet... But you know how it is, so it's cool.

    Thanks man!
    Sure do Bro, down to one income and a baby coming, different priorities now. The annual bonus will determine scooter component purchases in a round one month. Will still suss the link when I get a chance.............http://stores.ebay.com/Aspire-VeloTech

    A pic to keep you focussed....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  41. #41
    thats right living legend
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    Ok...

    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Sure do Bro, down to one income and a baby coming, different priorities now. The annual bonus will determine scooter component purchases in a round one month. Will still suss the link when I get a chance.............http://stores.ebay.com/Aspire-VeloTech

    A pic to keep you focussed....


    Is that what I think it is? BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAA!!!!!

  42. #42
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Is that what I think it is? BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAA!!!!!
    Yeah, dude... it's a Volvo.

    And you thought you wouldn't pick up a hot chick driving a Volvo?
    This proves chicks dig Volvo's!!!
    Check my Site

  43. #43
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    I have owned wheels with king hubs, 32h, 3x, dt4.1s, alloy nipples, equally (high with tensionemeter) tension

    differing were the spokes
    14/15 DT
    Supercomps

    the latter are like 30g lighter (if memory serves me correctly)
    the 14/15s are stiffer feeling

    I am 195-200lbs and definitely prefer the stiffer setup..
    I feel more confident and thus ride harder/faster

    I am seriously toying with the idea of a set of I9s with DT 4.1ds
    I have been sort of in "watch and see" mode

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Yeah, dude... it's a Volvo.

    And you thought you wouldn't pick up a hot chick driving a Volvo?
    This proves chicks dig Volvo's!!!
    maybe its the gal's volvo?

    but its a fake. or the guy is as "single pump dumper". the dust patern is very clean clear, not seemerd. that dust image is from a single press.


    or just straight out photoshop.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    "single pump dumper".
    that's funny!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Is that what I think it is? BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAA!!!!!
    I like the way you're thinking.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Wow... tough call, Blackey.

    I think lateral stiffness is important, but can you really quantify it?

    I mean, how do you get lateral stiffness? Farther away flanges on hubs? Larger flanges? Thicker spokes?

    I'd take a thicker spoke if lateral stiffness was my priority.
    If data's what you want, here's some data:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm

  48. #48
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    maybe its the gal's volvo?

    but its a fake. or the guy is as "single pump dumper". the dust patern is very clean clear, not seemerd. that dust image is from a single press.


    or just straight out photoshop.


    Thanks for clearing that up! My exp being so limited on such matters, I fell for it...

  49. #49
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Yeah, dude... it's a Volvo.

    And you thought you wouldn't pick up a hot chick driving a Volvo?
    This proves chicks dig Volvo's!!!


    I can't let you go with out a coment for that one. I was on the floor... GOOD ONE!

  50. #50
    thats right living legend
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    That sounds Tasty!

    Quote Originally Posted by hammerheadbikes
    I have owned wheels with king hubs, 32h, 3x, dt4.1s, alloy nipples, equally (high with tensionemeter) tension

    differing were the spokes
    14/15 DT
    Supercomps

    the latter are like 30g lighter (if memory serves me correctly)
    the 14/15s are stiffer feeling

    I am 195-200lbs and definitely prefer the stiffer setup..
    I feel more confident and thus ride harder/faster

    I am seriously toying with the idea of a set of I9s with DT 4.1ds
    I have been sort of in "watch and see" mode

    You gotta go with one of the colors if you do... Witch?

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