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Thread: Tubeless

  1. #1
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    Tubeless

    I have been thinking about going tubeless . . .I have been old school with my clincher rims and tubes but everyone is saying give tubeless a try. I was thinking about going with the Mavic Crossmax SL. Should I "pull the trigger" and give tubeless a try?

  2. #2
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTBAZ
    I have been thinking about going tubeless . . .I have been old school with my clincher rims and tubes but everyone is saying give tubeless a try. I was thinking about going with the Mavic Crossmax SL. Should I "pull the trigger" and give tubeless a try?

    I'm thinking of doing the same thing. As soon as I get new rims "819's" I plan to give em a roll. I'm sick of pinch flatting, annd hey why not?

  3. #3
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    Yes, you should.

    Mavic is bringing out a whole new line of factory wheels so be aware of that before buy 06 stock as you may want to wait for the new stuff.

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2049

    You should also consider going with a custom wheel build as well. Some Mavic 819s with your choice of spokes, nipples and hubs is a cool way to go as well.

  4. #4
    Mountain Dog
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    Tubeless and Leaks

    I take delivery of a Rush 1000 this week. I comes with Mavic tubeless. I've read on other posts people complaining about leaks, not all but some. I would think a quality wheel such as the Mavic should not leak. My question is, is this a consistent problem or an occasional one?

  5. #5
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    Whether or not you wait for Mavic's latest gear, I say go for it. The caveat is that Mavic is notoriously slow to distribute new stuff. If you choose to wait, it could be longer than you expect. I'm not sure what type of riding you do, but the difference between the SL and XL CrossMax wheels is chiefly weight, with the SL bing more XC oriented. If you're riding harder , then perhaps the XL would suit you better, If or when you do go tubeless, I also suggest you use Stan's NoTubes sealant and use real UST tires. It quickly seals small thorn punctures. If you ride where you have goathead stickers or various thorns, you'll want that ability. Take note that you can pinch flat a UST tire as well, if you're running too low a pressure and really take a sharp edged rock wrong. You'll want to still carry a tube as a back-up.

  6. #6
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    Tubeless tires will require more attention to pressure maintenance than tubes. I check pressures before each ride anyway, so it's transparent to me. You're relying on the interface of both tire and wheel to hold air as well as the integrity of the valve stem seal. Some UST tires seal better than others. I've had good luck with Hutchinson (Pythons) and Kenda (Nevegal UST) tires. Michelin's were problematic for me, as were some cheap Specialized tires I bought on sale.

    I find that using some light lube on the O-ring at the valve stem hepls there and I use Stan's sealant in all my tubeless installations. It not only seals small punctures but aids in that rim to tire seal too.

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    Hmmm, good feedback - I am going to go with the Mavic SL with Kenda Nevegal.

  8. #8
    searcher
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    europe

    Anybody happened to know out there if there's anything equal with Stan's sealent in Europe? Since we can't get the Stan's here, there should be a company selling sg like that , or sg similar. I only mean the sealant , not the whole system.
    Kovi

  9. #9
    the 36 year old grom
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    in my experiance. and I'm 100% UST. UST does not hold good preasure for longer then 3 days. you will need to pump it up before everyride. that is unless you add sealent. then it holds air better then tubes. I've gone months without even checking my tire preasure. its just always good to go. you do have to change out the stans every few months and I use alittle extra. but I'll never go back to tubes.

    and I don't mess around with non UST tires. I like the thicker sidewalls that UST tires have.

    I carry a tube with me as a spare, which I've used once for myself over the last year, I had cut open a nevagal on a rock. and I ride 10 hours a week of trail, so I'm on the bike a lot.

  10. #10
    MC MasterShake
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    I'm looking at a tubless kit that just came in for my DT5.1 wheelset. I've done the Stan's thing in the past and the UST rim w/UST tire thing as well. I went back to tubes because it was kind of a hassle. But, I'm finding it more of a hassle dealing with swapping out tubes. I flat at least once on pretty much every ride. We'll see how it works out.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTBAZ
    I have been thinking about going tubeless . . .I have been old school with my clincher rims and tubes but everyone is saying give tubeless a try. I was thinking about going with the Mavic Crossmax SL. Should I "pull the trigger" and give tubeless a try?
    If you flat much it's a good idea to go tubeless. I had tubes for years and was fine but I was not flating (SF bay area). Since I ride trails with many thorns now, I went no tubes and never looked back. It worked for a year before the sealant (not sure what LBS used) dried and the tire burped on a side wall. So you need to have a spare.
    On my new bike, I have 819 with regular (non UST) Maxxis crossmax with sealant.
    It's lighter and holds great for 8 weeks now. Need to add air every 2 weeks.
    The theory about tubeless roling faster can not be verified in my experience.
    Don't go tubeless if you don't flat.

  12. #12
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    I don't flat that often but I run my tire pressure pretty high 45psi. So the reasons I wanted to go tubeless was to run the pressure lower which, in theory, should result in greater traction and better rolling resistance.

  13. #13
    trail fairy
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    Tubeless tires with Stans sealant do not go down like suggested,though temperature and tire typer can vary this experience, if you go tubeless put some stans in there and don't be tight use 2 cups of the supplied cup in 2" I use 2-3 in 2.35" tires no probs I always check my tire pressures and always did even before tubless its a 2 second job I can never understand why people find it such a negitive.

    I adjust my tire pressure to the terrain, weather conditions or mood Im in XC or Jumping for example.

    Like anything do it propoerly and you'll wonder why you weren't tubeless years ago, apart from cost maybe

    Benefits far exceed any negitives.

    Enjoy
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  14. #14
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    You should not need sealant with UST tires. If in a thorny area, then definitely go with sealant, otherwise it's just precaution.

    I road on my UST Blue Groove for almost a year before finally getting my 1st flat in 3 years this weekend due to a thorn. I had actually stopped even bring a tube/pump, so the walk back sucked! Luckily I had some Stan's Formula 401 because I heard you needed it even for UST tires. Then I heard you didn't, so I tried riding without it and it worked fine.

    I did have lots of small punctures in both tires, and would lose about half my psi in about two days. But, I don't mind airing up before each ride so it wasn't an issue for me. I went ahead and added just half a scoop to each tire and now they're holding air better than ever. It's a good idea to add the sealant just before riding, that way it gives it a chance to really spread itself out.

    Good luck and let us know what you think of it.

  15. #15
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    SL and XL

    Hey guys,
    I have both Mavic SL and XL's on my bikes. They are both bombproof but I definitely like the XLs better. The engagement on the SL is very slow. Don't understand why the top of the line wheelset is like that.

    Chris

  16. #16
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    My crossmark burped today

    Quote Originally Posted by trailadvent
    Tubeless tires with Stans sealant do not go down like suggested,though temperature and tire typer can vary this experience, if you go tubeless put some stans in there and don't be tight use 2 cups of the supplied cup in 2" I use 2-3 in 2.35" tires no probs I always check my tire pressures and always did even before tubless its a 2 second job I can never understand why people find it such a negitive.

    I adjust my tire pressure to the terrain, weather conditions or mood Im in XC or Jumping for example.

    Like anything do it propoerly and you'll wonder why you weren't tubeless years ago, apart from cost maybe

    Benefits far exceed any negitives.

    Enjoy
    Simple drop that I do a lot but probably landed on the side a bit. My tire burped and I endoed.
    My setup is 819 with Crossmark and sealant but I guess I need to go tubeless. Any recomendation for AM type riding with little drops?.
    Thanks
    GB

  17. #17
    trail fairy
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    Simple drop that I do a lot but probably landed on the side a bit. My tire burped and I endoed.
    My setup is 819 with Crossmark and sealant but I guess I need to go tubeless. Any recomendation for AM type riding with little drops?.
    Thanks
    GB
    If is a standard crossmark then the sidewalls won't be stiff enough for drops landed sideways, XC tires 2.1 below won't be supportive enough and are built light for speed not trail.

    Id go a 2.25 UST if ya can ge your hands on them try a Nobby Nic still fast or Nevagal 2.1 UST.
    Maxxis Lust CM or TT UST you may get away with Ive had success with these but not for big drops or jumps just to narrow imo.
    Standard tires stans for anything other than XC racing or light trail in small sizes is pushing it esspecially if youre a bigger dude, lighter riders may be OK.

    Good luck
    Just riding a muddy trail. . ..

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBonty
    Simple drop that I do a lot but probably landed on the side a bit. My tire burped and I endoed.
    My setup is 819 with Crossmark and sealant but I guess I need to go tubeless. Any recomendation for AM type riding with little drops?.
    Thanks
    GB
    That was my biggest fear about sealant on non-UST tires.

    I've found after much experimentation that using a Kenda Blue Groove 2.1 UST front (750g if you cherry-pick), and a Maxxis CrossMark 2.1 UST rear (690g) work best for my type of riding. Not much of a weight penalty for the UST version of these tires, and more importantly their performance has been superb.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    That was my biggest fear about sealant on non-UST tires.

    I've found after much experimentation that using a Kenda Blue Groove 2.1 UST front (750g if you cherry-pick), and a Maxxis CrossMark 2.1 UST rear (690g) work best for my type of riding. Not much of a weight penalty for the UST version of these tires, and more importantly their performance has been superb.
    Thanks!
    What's wrong with Maxxis CrossMark 2.1 UST rear and front?. Any reason why you chose this way?. Just trying to understand/
    GB

  20. #20
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBonty
    Thanks!
    What's wrong with Maxxis CrossMark 2.1 UST rear and front?. Any reason why you chose this way?. Just trying to understand/
    GB
    Not enough meat... bigger tyres penalise little in comparison to bigger rears and provide better cornering and braking. The BG is more like a real 2.2"

    As far as I know, the biggest size in the X-Mark, is 2.1" (Duly says it's a real 2.0"... is that right, Duly?)
    Check my Site

  21. #21
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    For that kind of cash, you can get handbuilt, custom, wheels built the way you want them.

    I use Mavic 819s but love the DT4.1 and 5.1 as well. I run UST tires and they need topoff air maybe once every 10 days. I love them and the handbuilt wheels are sweet- snappy, tough, and true.

    Of course, the skills of the wheelbuilder is the primary determinant of the quality of a wheelbuild.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBonty
    Thanks!
    What's wrong with Maxxis CrossMark 2.1 UST rear and front?. Any reason why you chose this way?. Just trying to understand/
    GB
    I want different things from my front tire and rear tires. For the front, I want a tire that is better in turns with more agressive knobs, rounder profile, side knobs, and a wider footprint. The Blue Grove 2.1 UST measures out to be almost 2.2. I also really like larger ramped knobs for braking.

    For my rear tire, I'm more concerned with rolling resistance, weight and drive traction - the CrossMark is the best compromise of all three of those with very little give up on the drive traction.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    I want different things from my front tire and rear tires. For the front, I want a tire that is better in turns with more agressive knobs, rounder profile, side knobs, and a wider footprint. The Blue Grove 2.1 UST measures out to be almost 2.2. I also really like larger ramped knobs for braking.

    For my rear tire, I'm more concerned with rolling resistance, weight and drive traction - the CrossMark is the best compromise of all three of those with very little give up on the drive traction.
    Thanks
    BTW in your area I ran tubes for years and loved it. Light and dependable.

  24. #24
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    I pulled the trigger and purchased a set of the Crossmax SL. I went with the Kenda Nevegal 2.1 and they are very heavy. My bike gained a little under 3/4 of a lb due to the tires - that also includes the goop. I should note I was running lighter tires - IRC mibros with slimelite tubes. What is a light UST Tire that hooks up well? I am actually thinking about getting the IRC Mibro UST - they are light and they hook up well on the Phoenix trails.

  25. #25
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    UST? For me, thanks, but no thanks.

    I first tried tubeless a couple of years ago, when I installed a wheelset from Stan's with Hutchinson Python tires and Stan's sealant. Light, low rolling resistance and puncture-proof... perfect, right? Wrong. After a couple of months I got a puncture, a small one. And sealant wouldn't stop leaking. I rode a little to spin the wheel and... nothing. Sealant still leaking. I spinned again the wheel, waited and... nothing. Sealant still leaking. I had to install a tube. 3 weeks later, the same: another small thorn puncture and the sealant wouldn't seal anything. Again, I had to install a tube. Such a mess with sealant everywhere. Some weeks later I hit a rock in a race and it sliced the wall of the tire. I had to abandon. So I basically ended hating both, Stan's sealant and Pythons.

    This year I purchased a Crossmax SL wheelset. And I decided to give a try to the UST system. I installed Maxxis Crossmark LUST tires. Very nice tread, fast rolling and good grip. BUT... wrong again. After a few rides I noticed the rear tire were losing pressure. I discovered a couple of punctures (one on the sidewall) and proceeded to repair the tire. I dismounted it and applied a couple of dry patches inside. Useless, tire would still leak air . I dismounted the tire again and noticed I could remove the patches easily; they wouldn't hold sticked to the tire. I then applied glued patches. The sidewall puncture was repaired but the other one would still leak air . I removed the patch and, considering I had not many choices, I applied sealant. I spinned the wheel as recommended and... useless. Air still coming thru. I was really desperate . I searched on these forums and found a reference to the Hutchinson tires website, where they mention how to repair a LUST tire. So, I got some Loctite glue and proceeded to repair the tire following the instructions. Voila! Air stopped leaking. I was now happy and hitted the trails again . But, guess what? As soon as I got back home air was leaking again and I found another couple of punctures... What the hell...??? "Maybe I did something wrong" I thought. So, with tons of patience, I repaired the tire again using loctite, being very careful to follow the procedure described on hutchinson's website. Tire was holding air ok. Then I go for a 3-hour ride, really enjoying my bike, got back home and... surprise!!! The tire leaking air again from the same spots... so now, I ended hating UST also

    Maybe I'm completely ignorant on how to install tubeless systems. Maybe I got defective products. Maybe it was just plain bad luck. Whatever happened, I'm done. Tubeless, in my case, is an expensive technology that just don't work. I installed Crossmark tires (non-UST) with tubes, adding some talc in between. Welcome back.
    "I will not relent"

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