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  1. #1
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    Titus vs DW link'd Bikes on Bikemojo

    Well, I tried, but Titus seems to be taking a bashing of sorts...anyone care to pipe in for support? Thread started as a "Turner Demo" advertisement in Austin, then quickly started to get negative with 4-bar links not being progressive, and customer service being bad.

    I don't understand either...

    http://www.bikemojo.com/speak/showthread.php?t=76249

  2. #2
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    Seems like a disgruntled dealer to me. You can tell just from his write-up that he does not know what he is talking about. 5-spot now being 120mm travel, being able to "climb out of saddle without bob" is just over-kill.

    As a side note, here is a good even keeled review of the new 5-spot:

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...DUCT.ID%3D5190

  3. #3
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    good article. Thanks!

  4. #4
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    That post on Bikemojo makes me want to stand up and applaud the moderators and those who administer MTBR. What a joke having to sift through all the BS posts about goats and meat just to see the three posts worthy reading. MTBR rocks.

    As for the ranting, I suppose only riding both will give the rider a true impression. Any time at all in the Turner forum only echoes the shop owner's comments (which is to be expected amongst the many uber homers posting there).

    I like my ML, and I haven't been on the DW Spot yet, but if everything I hear about the new Spot ride is true it will have addressed my only concerns with the ML.

  5. #5
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
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    whatevuh....Turner rules and Titus drools

  6. #6
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    Change of heart

    Vesp-I think he was referring to the new Sultan, not the Five Spot.

    Looks like his feelings have changed since becoming a Pivot dealer. Here's what his website had to say about Titus:

    Titus bike is not just the suspension design, and it is certainly not the marketing or the hype. Itís about the details, and Titus does the details better then anyone. Itís not just a pretty paint job, but a perfectly designed main pivot, the right size tubing to optimize lateral stiffness, and a partnership with the shock manufacturers. These are just some of the details that make a Titus a Titus. Yes, they just happen to build the most amazing 4 bar, Horst link bikes, in the world, but it wouldnít matter if they were building virtual pivot or floating BB designs either. So, if you donít already own a Titus, you have no idea what youíre missing, but you can find out.

    Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

  7. #7
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    Moondog - you really care what the Voodootards think of Titus to the extent that you ask people to go there to comment?

    I would never send mtbrs over to BM to sift thru that shite. That is something you do to people you don't like...

  8. #8
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    Moondog - you really care what the Voodootards think of Titus to the extent that you ask people to go there to comment?

    I would never send mtbrs over to BM to sift thru that shite. That is something you do to people you don't like...
    for the ones i really hate, i send them to my blahg

  9. #9
    Trophy Husband
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    for the ones i really hate, i send them to my blahg
    I must hate myself, because I just went to your blahg.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  10. #10
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    I must hate myself, because I just went to your blahg.
    it is very hard to resist so dont feel too bad. much more interesting and educational than a retarded suspension x vs y blah blah blah thread for which there are a million a day

  11. #11
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    No matter, I love my Titus Racer-X 29er. However, it only has 3" of travel so any "shortcomings" like excessive bob are somewhat non-existent. Plus it is stiffer than my RIP9 (the old one). Does the RIP's CVA work well- oh yeah, and as well as the DW Link, which I also like. I do think they are better designs when in the 4"-6" travel range but that doesn't mean the Racer-X is obsolete. On the contrary, due to its stiffness I prefer it to the old RIP on most trails....not rough trails like Moab's Porc Rim, for exmple. I'll be getting another long-travel FS soon and it will be a CVA or DW Link bike. I think they are far more efficient and very plush when the travel increases. The Racer-X will still hold its own though....I love that bike.

    Yeah, this is not Chris C's Titus but as long as Titus builds solid and stiff bikes and has a good reputation for CS, they are among the better buys regardless of suspension design.

    I think (well, I know) a lot of the dealers don't like dealing with Titus (as a company) anymore and there is some resentment there. That leads them to point customers to another brand. What Titus lays down in marketshare, Pivot, Turner, and others will pick up. Personally, I think Titus is sort of searching for an identifying personality. I hope they make it. I may need another Racer-X down the road.

  12. #12
    The Crow
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    Titus vs DW

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    Vesp-I think he was referring to the new Sultan, not the Five Spot.

    Looks like his feelings have changed since becoming a Pivot dealer. Here's what his website had to say about Titus:

    Titus bike is not just the suspension design, and it is certainly not the marketing or the hype. Itís about the details, and Titus does the details better then anyone. Itís not just a pretty paint job, but a perfectly designed main pivot, the right size tubing to optimize lateral stiffness, and a partnership with the shock manufacturers. These are just some of the details that make a Titus a Titus. Yes, they just happen to build the most amazing 4 bar, Horst link bikes, in the world, but it wouldnít matter if they were building virtual pivot or floating BB designs either. So, if you donít already own a Titus, you have no idea what youíre missing, but you can find out.

    Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
    That's a quote straight from Titus...not the first time I've read that.

    I have owned a RX, ML and a Mojo SL. The DW kills them. It is just SO much better it's actually laughable. Pitty Ibis doesn't make a 160mm bike yet. Looking forward to try a 5-Spot

    I must say I truly enjoyed my time on EG. Med is just a bit on the short side.
    There's a feeling I get
    When I look to the West
    And my spirit is crying for leaving

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwan
    That's a quote straight from Titus...not the first time I've read that.

    I have owned a RX, ML and a Mojo SL. The DW kills them. It is just SO much better it's actually laughable. Pitty Ibis doesn't make a 160mm bike yet. Looking forward to try a 5-Spot

    I must say I truly enjoyed my time on EG. Med is just a bit on the short side.

    Personally, I would not agree with this. I have not tried a Mojo or a Turner but did demo a DW linked Iron Horse. Nice bike but for my ridding and my conditions, not as good as the Titus.

  14. #14
    Sup?
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    I have both.. (05ML and 09 DWSpot)

    2005 ML with CF seatstay
    2009 DW Spot

    They ride different period. As to which is better? It depends upon your riding style.

    The Turner has a tighter cockpit, and with the Marz 55 ATA is slacker.
    It descends and tracks better than my ML period.

    The Titus has a more XC geometry, higher BB, bit longer top tube and steeper
    angles on headtube and seattube. The RS RVL426 (non uturn, just pop lock)
    is fine, but I find the front end sometimes hard to keep 'down' while climbing.

    the RP3 on mine needs to go it for service.. right now have a DHX5 coil over
    on it. Helps with the lateral/rear end stability IMHO

    Of the two bikes, the Turner climbs better. Once I get the RP3 rebuilt/PUSH'ed
    this may change but I doubt it. The DW link as done by DT and DW
    is impressive, a ride or two on a 5 Spot or Sultan (DW link versions)
    was all it took to convince me.

    I find that the Turner tends to just 'go where I look/point it' whereas on the Titus
    I feel a bit 'sketchier'? dunno YMMV but again, I think its more a question of
    which frame fits me better.


    Once I get the RP3 back, I should put the marz fork on the Titus to compare,
    but that really is too long a fork for the 05 ML.

    I've thought about going 650b on the front of the ML with an RS Pike?

    I dont like the stiffness of the current RS RVL that I have on there.. it feels
    'flexy' to me.

    Fore/aft balance on the ML has always been an issue for me, shortening the
    stem to 90mm helped, but I still have to work to keep the front end 'up' when
    rolling drops.

    They are both *really* really nice bikes.. DW though I have to say, in my
    'opinion' is better right now, as I have both bikes setup.

    Considering, going 'lighter' with the ML over time, and swaping parts as
    time/money permits, to turn it into more of an XC machine. Also changing
    the rear travel to the 'shorter' setting. 650B up front is appealing, but
    not at the expense of messing the geometry up more..

    Too many parts and options to play with.. One really has to ride both
    to determine what fits them best.

    Reputation for customer service is right up there with the best. I have
    been *very* impressed with both Titus and Turner from that standpoint!

    I like having two FS bikes to pick from, and the way I have built up my
    5 Spot is more on the heavy side (to withstand SoMo beatings) To
    compliment this, I need to re-work the ML to be more of a light
    XC steed.

  15. #15
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    What Honemastert says....

    I too have an ML (exogrid) and a new DW Spot, having also had an Ibis Mojo. The DW Spot is an awesome bike, and to be honest does most things better than the ML, but it is heavier, especially given how I've built them up. The ML is basically built as an XC flying machine, and in that guise is awesome. The DW Spot is built as a trail machine, and is a riot.

    Should also say that the ML Exogrid is a work of art, whilst the Spot is pretty industrial-looking.

  16. #16
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    In all reality the only way to compare bikes properly is with a Garmin 705 GPS or stop watch. This way you can see which suspension design is faster under which set of specific conditions assuming identical components and tires.

    Sopwithcamel

  17. #17
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel
    In all reality the only way to compare bikes properly is with a Garmin 705 GPS or stop watch. This way you can see which suspension design is faster under which set of specific conditions assuming identical components and tires.

    Sopwithcamel
    whatever...the DW Link is definitely better because (1) the Turner forum has more visitors and corresponding expertise so they would clearly have the aptitude to choose the better bike and (2) Dulyebr has a Titus and he is retarded

  18. #18
    ಠ_ಠ
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    (2) Dulyebr has a Titus and he is retarded



  19. #19
    Ultimated Outsider
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    whatever...the DW Link is definitely better because (1) the Turner forum has more visitors and corresponding expertise so they would clearly have the aptitude to choose the better bike and (2) Dulyebr has a Titus and he is retarded

    1) Everione knows that if Dave tells the guys in the Turner forum to drink the Kool Aid, they will.

    2) You do have a point
    If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong.

  20. #20
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    First of all the Turner forum only gets more vistors because the Turner bikes need more help. Second of all, the Titus riders are to busy enjoying their bikes to comment on the the Titus forum unlike the Turner riders who are at home fixing their bikes. Thirdly, Titus bikes win more races.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by honemastert

    Considering, going 'lighter' with the ML over time, and swaping parts as
    time/money permits, to turn it into more of an XC machine. Also changing
    the rear travel to the 'shorter' setting.
    This is exactly what I did. I bought a heavier-duty bike, and decided to change my MotoLite into a dedicated XC ride in order to give some separation between it and my Endorphin. I wanted a bike that would be appropriate for XC races, but still fun for smoother trails. I found a killer deal on a new tubeless wheelset on eBay, swapped the PIKE for a RVL (non-u-turn set internally to 115mm) and bought some lightish high-volume tires. The bike rode okay. However, I wondered if I would really ride it very much since the Endorphin worked great on XC trails too.

    The fork on the Endorphin started to leak oil, and ended up being out of commission for a couple of months. Thankfully I had the MotoLite as backup. The Titus once again became my one bike. One day I had a particularly great ride. I mean the bike just felt dialed; railed corners better, had better traction, tracked better etc. I suspected that the air in the shock might be a little low since I had been having problems with a slow leak. When I got home I measured the sag. Sure enough, it was 30% instead of the 25% I've always run in the past. After that I started running 30% sag all the time. An extra 5% sag on a 5 inch bike effectively lowers the bottom bracket a quarter of an inch, which seemed to help things. Even though I never bottomed out, the bike would really squat on steep energetic climbs. Since I had to get my shock repaired anyway, I sent it off to PUSH for the full treatment. I wrote on my work order that I wanted to keep the sag at 30%, and that the bike felt squatty on climbs. A week later the shock came back, and it was fantastic! I've never ridden a DW-Link bike, but the difference in the before and after reminded me of what I read about how much better DWL is to other suspension types. Biggest differences were smoother, more useable travel, and MUCH better mid-stroke support, i.e. no more squat (even at 30% sag).

    The other really big difference was installing an All Mountain Post. The AMP was on my Endorphin, but frankly I was never 100% happy with it. I ended up replacing it with another adjustable post and moving the AMP over to the ML. I think once you get used to an adjustable post on one bike, you'll miss not having it on the rest of your stable.

    Basically, I've never been happier with the way my MotoLite feels. I'd say the most meaningful changes, in no particular order were: going with a shorter fork (493mm axle to crown), increasing sag, upgrading the shock with the PUSH mod, and installing an adjustable post.

    Here's a recent pic of her at 27.8lbs.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by dulyebr; 04-12-2009 at 12:54 AM.

  22. #22
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    Pretty much everything well-designed is going to ride really well. Any of us can pick up one of these bikes one day, ride them away, and be blown away. That's just the simple fact now. Bike tech is really close and most of the offerings are great. Of course, comparatively, one automatically "sucks" and one is the grail.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Pretty much everything well-designed is going to ride really well. Any of us can pick up one of these bikes one day, ride them away, and be blown away. That's just the simple fact now. Bike tech is really close and most of the offerings are great. Of course, comparatively, one automatically "sucks" and one is the grail.

    I am with the Jerk. 100% right on. This is a good time to be buying a high end bike, they are all pretty good right now.

  24. #24
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Pretty much everything well-designed is going to ride really well. Any of us can pick up one of these bikes one day, ride them away, and be blown away. That's just the simple fact now. Bike tech is really close and most of the offerings are great. Of course, comparatively, one automatically "sucks" and one is the grail.
    oh shut up you friggin buzzkill...you are totally not right, bikes make the rider now go hug a tree

  25. #25
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    I don't hug trees. I hump them.

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