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  1. #1
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    Thinking of buying a motolite

    Im sick of all the maintenance required to ride my blur. The bearing in the link behind the bottom bracket wore out in less than a year. I don't race I just like to ride 3 times a week 10 to 12 miles a day.No drops over 2 ft. How long can you go without changing the bearings on a motolite?

  2. #2
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    You must be talking about the original blur.
    A year youre still under warranty.
    Just out of curiousity, how much maintenance issues
    have you had ? I've had a blur XC for about 4 mo,
    do about the same amount of riding as you do,
    and have done zero maintenance, with no
    problems so far.
    Maybe the new blurs have better bearing
    protection ?

    OOPS, forgive me, this is supposed to be a Titus forum.
    All I can tell you about the ML is, I have a buddy that
    rides one, havent heard him complain about the
    bearings.

  3. #3
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    From their web site:
    How often do I need to replace my Horst-link bushings and how do I do it?

    The life of the sealed bearings and Horst pivot bushings on your bike will vary depending on the type of conditions you ride in and the way you ride. You should be able to get two or more years out of your Horst pivots if you disassemble them every 6-12 months to clean and re-lube the bushings.
    Mine's five months old, I haven't serviced them, still quiet and smooth.

  4. #4
    thats right living legend
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    In my experiance, the ML will serve you for quit some time. Probably till you forget it has bearings...

  5. #5
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    I was told by my LBS that they've serviced the main pivots on only one of the MLs they've sold over the years. This was for a guy who severely pressure-washed his bike. Barring user error, they are extremely reliable especially in wet climates, one of the reasons why I opted for the bike (and not a Blur) in the first place.

  6. #6
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    I owned a Motolite for six months and while it was a great bike i had some problems with the h-link bushings coming lose. Another thing to look out for is the paint is crap. The slightest contact with anything and it will flake off.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by forceyoda
    I owned a Motolite for six months and while it was a great bike i had some problems with the h-link bushings coming lose. Another thing to look out for is the paint is crap. The slightest contact with anything and it will flake off.
    Yeah, paint not great but problem can be mitigated by liberal use of clear sticky film of some description.

    HL bushing problem easily solved too - remove bolts, wipe clean and coat the threads liberally in copper anti-sieze grease. When you re-insert them, the bushing sleeves are coated which reduces the friction causing them to loosen in the first place. Problem solved - mine haven't budged since I did this and you don't have the worry of stripping them as you might if you use loctite.

    With those two problems out of the way you will enjoy one extremely fine bike.

  8. #8
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by forceyoda
    Another thing to look out for is the paint is crap. The slightest contact with anything and it will flake off.
    my paint is great. close to a year and nothing more then minor cable rub. the red is beautifull as ever.

  9. #9
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    The paint problem was with the 06 Models.
    I am not trying to diss the Motolite, i know it is a great bike but WENTZVILLE's question was related to the maintanence required to have one i was just letting him know what he would be looking at.
    Motolite Paint
    and here is what my own motolite looked like after a month of riding:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by forceyoda
    The paint problem was with the 06 Models.
    I am not trying to diss the Motolite, i know it is a great bike but WENTZVILLE's question was related to the maintenance required to have one i was just letting him know what he would be looking at.
    Motolite Paint
    and here is what my own motolite looked like after a month of riding:
    was there anything that was not correct about my post? nope, my motolite has great paint. this is a true statement. your motolite had crappy paint.

    "Another thing to look out for is the paint is crap. The slightest contact with anything and it will flake off." does not hold true for "all" motolites past or present.. mine and my buddies do not have this same issue. the paint is great. seems like there was a manufacturing defect with paint on some motolites. you got a bad one. get it fixed and get over it.

    I'm sure its not the first or the last time you'll buy something that was defective.

  11. #11
    thats right living legend
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    Yes...

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    was there anything that was not correct about my post? nope, my motolite has great paint. this is a true statement. your motolite had crappy paint.

    "Another thing to look out for is the paint is crap. The slightest contact with anything and it will flake off." does not hold true for "all" motolites past or present.. mine and my buddies do not have this same issue. the paint is great. seems like there was a manufacturing defect with paint on some motolites. you got a bad one. get it fixed and get over it.

    I'm sure its not the first or the last time you'll buy something that was defective.

    My paint has also been perfect after more than a year of abusing the $hit out of it. I guess it's true there was a bad batch of paint, people saying the ML's (paint is bad) is geting old. "Thier" paint was bad through a "mistake"... That means it shouldn't be the norm. So until we get another run of "bad paint" reports, this should not hold as a stated fact....

    How do I know? Like I said the paint on my own ML has held up incredibly well. All it takes is a good wash, and she's brand new again.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    was there anything that was not correct about my post? nope, my motolite has great paint. this is a true statement. your motolite had crappy paint.

    "Another thing to look out for is the paint is crap. The slightest contact with anything and it will flake off." does not hold true for "all" motolites past or present.. mine and my buddies do not have this same issue. the paint is great. seems like there was a manufacturing defect with paint on some motolites. you got a bad one. get it fixed and get over it.

    I'm sure its not the first or the last time you'll buy something that was defective.
    Is it a defect or simply Titus cutting corners?
    Every other 06 Motolite I have seen looks the same way. You can search the forums and you will find plenty of other threads on this. I know that before 06 their paint was never an issue so you and your buddie would not have had to deal wiith it. But since they started making them over seas it has become one.
    I never implied that all Motolites "past and present" have the paint problem but when some one is asking about purchasing one they are going to be looking at the 06 model which unfortunatly has a low quality paint on an otherwise perfect bike.
    Last edited by forceyoda; 08-12-2006 at 10:41 PM.

  13. #13
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by forceyoda
    Is it a defect or simply Titus cutting corners?
    Every other 06 Motolite I have seen looks the same way. You can search the forums and you will find plenty of other threads on this. I know that before 06 their paint was never an issue so you and your buddie would not have had to deal wiith it. But since they started making them over seas it has become one.
    I never implied that all Motolites "past and present" have the paint problem but when some one is asking about purchasing one their are going to be looking at the 06 model which unfortunatly has a low quality paint on an otherwise perfect bike.

    Demo's mentioned his buddies ML befor and I can tell you I'm pretty sure it's an 06. Thier was a run of bad paint, some had gotten one, they posted. Not all ML's have had that problem.

    The only thing you can say is, you and some people you read about had gotten a ML with bad paint... PERIOD!

  14. #14
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    After looking at that picture, going beyond the paint issue, the blur XC,
    from what I've seen anyway, also looks like its built better.
    A year is not a bad use to get out of a set of bearings, especially
    if you do a lot of water crossings. I'm sure the ML is a great bike,
    I know people that have them and are happy with them, but I'm
    glad I opted for the blur XC. I think it climbs a better too (at least
    in my exp. in riding with people with ML's.)
    Last edited by coati; 08-12-2006 at 10:51 PM.

  15. #15
    thats right living legend
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    Whaa???

    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    After looking at that picture, going beyond the paint issue, the blur XC,
    from what I've seen anyway, also looks like its built better.
    A year is not a bad use to get out of a set of bearings, especially
    if you do a lot of water crossings. I'm sure the ML is a great bike,
    I know people that have them and are happy with them, but I'm
    glad I opted for the blur XC. I think it climbs a little better too.


    I've seen many Blur's, and ML's and I can assure you, that to my eye's the ML is built far better than any Blur I've ever seen.

    As for climbing better... it's a Blur XC, I would hope so.

  16. #16
    thats right living legend
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    Uh... Waite A Minute???

    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    After looking at that picture, going beyond the paint issue, the blur XC,
    from what I've seen anyway, also looks like its built better.
    A year is not a bad use to get out of a set of bearings, especially
    if you do a lot of water crossings. I'm sure the ML is a great bike,
    I know people that have them and are happy with them, but I'm
    glad I opted for the blur XC. I think it climbs a better too (at least
    in my exp. in riding with people with ML's.)

    First your going by "that picture" to say the Blur's built better, now you ride along side guy's with MLs???



    Edit: For the record, I noticed this due to your edit...
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-12-2006 at 11:03 PM.

  17. #17
    the 36 year old grom
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    cost cutting on 06 ML.....those cheep titus bastids. they also charge 100 buck less for it too... I should demand a refund!!!! man that just makes me mad. all you other guys got the same bike for $100 bucks less. I was robbed. Free rp3 upgrade, Freeride lowers. AL rocker bolts vs my cheap steel bolts. they just ripped me off...man that just makes me mad. how dare they improve thier product and charge less for it and then dare to sell them


    .....at least mine is red.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    First your going by "that picture" to say the Blur's built better, now you ride along side guy's with MLs???



    Edit: For the record, I noticed this due to your edit...
    Yes, I edited it because I felt I should be accurate, and not just
    make statements. Up the technical stuff it seems like this bike
    makes an easier job of it than the ML. I've just noticed from a
    few rides with one guy I know that has an ML - who is actually
    a stronger rider then me by the way - that he seems to have a
    harder time cleaning some of the uphill technical stuff.
    On the downhill side the ML wins.

    Heres another edit to address the other part of your question:
    What I was referring to in the picture was the bottom bracket
    area. It just did not appear, and I'll grant you it wasnt a very
    close up shot, but you could see what it was more or less -
    of the kind of quality you'd see in, say, a Turner bottom
    bracket. To me it looked rather pedestrian for a bike in that
    price range.
    Last edited by coati; 08-12-2006 at 11:54 PM.

  19. #19
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati

    , but you could see what it was more or less -
    of the kind of quality you'd see in, say, a Turner bottom
    bracket. To me it looked rather pedestrian for a bike in that
    price range.
    dude. you need to flip your blur over an take a look. becuase, its a bike that is closer to the ML price. I like the blur, but if you want to talk about cutting corners. those SC guys pinch/bent the rear end tubes to create clearnece for the tires. notice the ML chain stay yoke is Huge CNC section with the tire's relief in it. that is clean and deliberate. on SC ... oh**** the tire doesn't fit... pinch the tube, just put a big dent in it..

  20. #20
    thats right living legend
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    Yeah!

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    dude. you need to flip your blur over an take a look. becuase, its a bike that is closer to the ML price. I like the blur, but if you want to talk about cutting corners. those SC guys pinch/bent the rear end tubes to create clearnece for the tires. notice the ML chain stay yoke is Huge CNC section with the tire's relief in it. that is clean and deliberate. on SC ... oh**** the tire doesn't fit... pinch the tube, just put a big dent in it..

    Yes, not to bag on the Blur, but PLEEAASSE!

  21. #21
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by forceyoda
    Is it a defect or simply Titus cutting corners?
    Every other 06 Motolite I have seen looks the same way. You can search the forums and you will find plenty of other threads on this. I know that before 06 their paint was never an issue so you and your buddie would not have had to deal wiith it. But since they started making them over seas it has become one.
    I never implied that all Motolites "past and present" have the paint problem but when some one is asking about purchasing one they are going to be looking at the 06 model which unfortunatly has a low quality paint on an otherwise perfect bike.
    Titus version is that it was a bad batch (how small or large, I don't know) where the primer was improperly cured and the top coat didn't come on right. They know about it.

    Titus has offered to warrant ML's with this issue.. which is well known by TItus, dealers and customers.

    Go back to your dealer, show them your problem and they'll work it out with Titus. Don't quit until they fully satisfy you. They will.

    This goes to all ML owners.
    Check my Site

  22. #22
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    Killer ML

    I have a medium ML listed on e-bay. Check it out. TB

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    my paint is great. close to a year and nothing more then minor cable rub. the red is beautifull as ever.
    Actually, on second thoughts, my paint is fine too! Possibly because I've gone for broke with the bikeshield, but even some exposed areas which take a hammering such as the BB shell are in pretty good condition. The chain has made a wee bit of a mess of the drive-side chainstay, but no worse than I've seen on other bikes and I've been careless with cassettes and disk rotors when removing the rear wheel, but apart from that she's still looking mighty fine 6 months down the line.

    I think I've just been suffering from paint-damage paranoia rather than actual paint damage...

  24. #24
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    Just checked out the underside of my ML and the chainstay next to the bottom bracket has gotten hammered by the chain. I thought I had done a good job protecting my chainstay both on top AND underneath, but the chain slap reaches all the way up to the chainstay yoke! Who knew?!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    dude. you need to flip your blur over an take a look. becuase, its a bike that is closer to the ML price. I like the blur, but if you want to talk about cutting corners. those SC guys pinch/bent the rear end tubes to create clearnece for the tires. notice the ML chain stay yoke is Huge CNC section with the tire's relief in it. that is clean and deliberate. on SC ... oh**** the tire doesn't fit... pinch the tube, just put a big dent in it..
    Ok, I see the CNC part now. You've still got welds very close in on that. Theres not
    a lot of CNC work that I can see from that picture, but its good to have it.
    I dont think the VPP linkage lends itself to CNC work down there, but SC has
    done the next best thing and recessed the pivots well to minimize dirt
    collection, among other things.
    Since I was thinking about it, I did look at the bottom of the blur last night
    for comparison. It looks very cleanly executed. If I look at the 2 pivot points, from a
    construction standpoint, it looks well thought out to me. As far as what you say
    "pinched tubes" - I can assure you theres no pinched tubes on that rear end.
    Thats something you find on low end bikes, SC wouldnt do that.
    I have 2.1s on there now, and have no problem with clearance on muddy
    trails. This is something SC addressed with the 06 models.

  26. #26
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    Ok, I see the CNC part now. You've still got welds very close in on that. Theres not
    a lot of CNC work that I can see from that picture, but its good to have it.
    I dont think the VPP linkage lends itself to CNC work down there, but SC has
    done the next best thing and recessed the pivots well to minimize dirt
    collection, among other things.
    Since I was thinking about it, I did look at the bottom of the blur last night
    for comparison. It looks very cleanly executed. If I look at the 2 pivot points, from a
    construction standpoint, it looks well thought out to me. As far as what you say
    "pinched tubes" - I can assure you theres no pinched tubes on that rear end.
    Thats something you find on low end bikes, SC wouldnt do that.
    I have 2.1s on there now, and have no problem with clearance on muddy
    trails. This is something SC addressed with the 06 models.
    dude, you are clueless.
    blur xc issues
    first learn to adjust your front derailleur , then, if you are successfull, come back and tell me all about your opinions/observation on weldment design and fabrication. OK.
    Last edited by demo_slug; 08-13-2006 at 11:22 PM.

  27. #27
    thats right living legend
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    Give Me A Break!

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    dude, you are clueless.
    blur xc issues
    first learn to adjust your front derailleur , then, if you are successfull, come back and tell me all about your opinions/observation on weldment design and fabrication. OK.

    And here I'd been thinking I'd entered bizzarro world...

  28. #28
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    As far as what you say
    "pinched tubes" - I can assure you theres no pinched tubes on that rear end.
    Thats something you find on low end bikes, SC wouldnt do that.
    .
    see picture of a pinched tube on a blur. look at the red arrow, in the picture, I attached it. see.... do you see it it is a pinched tube, for tire clearance on the rear end. I guess that makes the blur a low end bike???? I don't think so.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  29. #29
    thats right living legend
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    Snap!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    see picture of a pinched tube on a blur. look at the red arrow, in the picture, I attached it. see.... do you see it it is a pinched tube, for tire clearance on the rear end. I guess that makes the blur a low end bike???? I don't think so.


    Oh, no he didn't!!!

  30. #30
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    Thanks for the info. I'll change my bearing and wait for the 07's to come out. Paint problem should be resolved by then.

  31. #31
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    after about 130 miles my chain has beat the heck out of the chainstay I have the grey annodiozed ML.... Dont care though.... I didn't buy the bike to hang on the wall and admire, I bought it to ride....

    However.

    PLEASE don't say that a blur is built better because some ML's have had paint issues.

    I almost bough a blur xc this year and I still enjoy looking at the SC section on this site. Blur owners are the best refference source in regard to dispelling the notion that a blur is constructed better then a ML. Out of the last ten posts on The MTBR SC site 4 of them were Blur owners with quality issues.

    Upper link bolts on Classic Blur
    Blur Classic Bearings
    blur xc issues
    My Blur LT experience, far from perfect

    It really makes me feel like I dodged a bullit (pun intended)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    see picture of a pinched tube on a blur. look at the red arrow, in the picture, I attached it. see.... do you see it it is a pinched tube, for tire clearance on the rear end. I guess that makes the blur a low end bike???? I don't think so.
    After my post last night I checked out the rear triangle of my blurXC just to make sure.
    I will try to post a picture just to prove it to you, but there are NO pinched/bent tubes
    anywhere on this frame. Also, that picture looks to be of an original blur as various things
    such as the placement of the welds and the recessing of the pivots look different.

  33. #33
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    After my post last night I checked out the rear triangle of my blurXC just to make sure.
    I will try to post a picture just to prove it to you, but there are NO pinched/bent tubes
    anywhere on this frame. Also, that picture looks to be of an original blur as various things
    such as the placement of the welds and the recessing of the pivots look different.
    I've seen that pinch on a brand new BLT and countless other SC products. sorry dude. I posted the proof. what is left to argue? maybe your frame is a defect and they forgot to give the frame the santacruz signature tube pinch before it left the same factory that the motolite is built at. probably painted by the same guys.

    while the pinched tubes bug me and is a pet peeve, If there was no titus, I'd be riding an SC. pinched tubes and all.

  34. #34
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    After my post last night I checked out the rear triangle of my blurXC just to make sure.
    I will try to post a picture just to prove it to you, but there are NO pinched/bent tubes
    anywhere on this frame. Also, that picture looks to be of an original blur as various things
    such as the placement of the welds and the recessing of the pivots look different.
    Not dissing SC or you, Coati... but I've seen both a '05 ML and '05 Blur Classic. The Blur as a frame before being built. A white one, btw.

    I was not impressed with the overall finish of the bike. I know about the paint issues on the '06 ML's, and I recall that I thought back then that the paint finish on the Blur was rather low quality. The finishes were not top notch either. The edges of the shock mounting gussets were sharp and the paint looked very thin on those areas (believe me I've seen a couple paint jobs done)

    The lower pivots had burrs and a tool mark from assembly. The frame preparation looked like (as we say in Mexico) "made with the teeth"... and overall, not better than any Giant I've seen.

    Actually, it was hard to believe that Blur came off the same line of production as some V10's / VP-Free's and Hecklers that I've seen. It could have been I just saw a lemon, maybe.

    In comparison, the '05 ML my buddy Rzoz has, looks really impressive. Certainly, it looked much more like a 1350 bucks frame.

    I do not have a doubt SC makes awesome bikes and that they ride very good. VPP can be your cup of tea or not. Many people feel the bike "disconnected" from the trail and find the chain induced tension to lock a bit suspension on some situations.

    As for the chainstays of the ML having "some CNC work, but some welds close to it"... to make the ML chainstays to have more CNC job, you'd have to make the HL clevises and the chainstay yoke even bigger. The welds are fine on that place.


    As it has been said before (even on that infamous Yeti Vs. Titus thread)... there's no such thing as a perfect bike. If the Blur is THE bike for you, fine. Props to you.
    Check my Site

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    I've seen that pinch on a brand new BLT and countless other SC products. sorry dude. I posted the proof. what is left to argue? maybe your frame is a defect and they forgot to give the frame the santacruz signature tube pinch before it left the same factory that the motolite is built at. probably painted by the same guys.

    while the pinched tubes bug me and is a pet peeve, If there was no titus, I'd be riding an SC. pinched tubes and all.
    First of all, demo_slug, your the one thats bent. Take another look. I just ran my
    fingers all along the length of the seat and chainstays of the blur XC that I have.
    They are all perfectly round. The only tube manipulation I could find was right next to
    the bottom bracket. The inside of the tube where the 2 chainstays come together
    is ovalized toward the inside. I think thats called hydroforming and thats to
    strengthen the tubes in that area, not to provide tire clearance.
    Many high end brands do that also. If yu look at that bottom bracket picture
    of the ML you will see some of that on the chainstay/.

    Another thing I should mention about your picture, thats clearly an old blur.
    I dont know what they did on the old blurs, so I comment on the veracity of your
    claim or not. Maybe they did that, I dont know. All I know is this bike doesnt
    have it. You seem overly eager to diss the blur. I noticed there was some glare
    in your picture at the spot where you say the alleged crimping is.
    Did you manipulate that picture ?

  36. #36
    thats right living legend
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    Are You For Real???

    Quote Originally Posted by coati

    Another thing I should mention about your picture, thats clearly an old blur.
    I dont know what they did on the old blurs, so I comment on the veracity of your
    claim or not. Maybe they did that, I dont know. All I know is this bike doesnt
    have it. You seem overly eager to diss the blur. I noticed there was some glare
    in your picture at the spot where you say the alleged crimping is.
    Did you manipulate that picture ?


    First of all you have very little idea of what your talking about. second, Your the one that came over here giving uninformed opinions on the "over all" build qulity of the ML based on a pic of the under side of the BB... Whaa?? Oh but than all the sudden you have friends that ride with you that own ML's?

    Just because your dishonest "apparently" dosen't mean anyone over here has been, and I assure you least of all demo_slug.

    Now if you insist on carrying this further, I'd like you to know that Demo might just bring it a little harder than you might be prepared for.

    Unless of course you "somehow" have your facts straite, in which case you have nothing to fear...

  37. #37
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    I noticed there was some glare
    in your picture at the spot where you say the alleged crimping is.
    Did you manipulate that picture ?
    Looks like the seatstay bridge to me...

    The pic comes from post #1 on this thread... it was posted on july-2005, which makes me assume this is a 2005 Blur.

    Certainly, it ain't a "pinched" afterthought tube. Clearly, it was on a deliberate purpouse by SC, and it ain't anything bad (as Demo already mentioned).

    Now again, two bike fans agree to disagree on something that they agree but said with different words. Cut it off, guys.
    Check my Site

  38. #38
    thats right living legend
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    Huh???

    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Looks like the seatstay bridge to me...

    The pic comes from post #1 on this thread... it was posted on july-2005, which makes me assume this is a 2005 Blur.

    Certainly, it ain't a "pinched" afterthought tube. Clearly, it was on a deliberate purpouse by SC, and it ain't anything bad (as Demo already mentioned).

    Now again, two bike fans agree to disagree on something that they agree but said with different words. Cut it off, guys.


    Cut what off? someone came here and stated something completly untrue about a bike... Than proceded to say it was the function of a cheap bike...."you following" Now it comes out the only bike which has this function is his own, which hey, he's the only one I've ever seen mention it as a "bad thing".

    Was I absent the day the king of the Ttus boarde was crowned??? From now on, I guess we'll have to be more.... Careful...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    First of all you have very little idea of what your talking about. second, Your the one that came over here giving uninformed opinions on the "over all" build qulity of the ML based on a pic of the under side of the BB... Whaa?? Oh but than all the sudden you have friends that ride with you that own ML's?

    Just because your dishonest "apparently" dosen't mean anyone over here has been, and I assure you least of all demo_slug.

    Now if you insist on carrying this further, I'd like you to know that Demo might just bring it a little harder than you might be prepared for.

    Unless of course you "somehow" have your facts straite, in which case you have nothing to fear...
    Look, blackangus, I'm trying to start a flame war here. I respect everybodys opinion,
    and generally give people the benefit of the doubt until I see something that looks
    to me like it might be deliberately misleading.

    In my prior post I did not say the build quality of the ML was bad. Notice that if I
    dont know something for sure I dont state it unoquivically - did I spell that right ? -
    as fact. For the record, the bottom bracket of the ML looks well made.
    It seems to have a similar manipulation of the chainstay/bottom bracket area as the
    current blurs. (Im talking about the tube forming on the outer side where you see
    the indentation - the blur has that on the inside)
    I admit I am uninformed as to the overall build quality of the MLs, I had just
    made a comment from that picture. I do have a blurXC; I have no reason to be
    dishonest about its build quality. I just calls it like I sees it. Ihave no special
    allegiance to SC or any other bike company, unlike a lot of people on these
    forums. NOthing I have said here has been dishonest. One of the guys I have
    ridden with on several occasions rides Tituses, that's factual, I dont why you
    keep questioning that.
    Im not questioning your knowledge of the Tituses.
    But when demo_slug posts a picture of an obviously old blur to make a point
    about new blurs, its seems like hes being a little misleading. And I'm still a little
    suspicious of that picture. Cant tell whether that pinch hes showing is legit or not.

  40. #40
    the 36 year old grom
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    I was just making sure he had enough rope.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    After looking at that picture, going beyond the paint issue, the blur XC,
    from what I've seen anyway, also looks like its built better.
    A year is not a bad use to get out of a set of bearings, especially
    if you do a lot of water crossings. I'm sure the ML is a great bike,
    I know people that have them and are happy with them, but I'm
    glad I opted for the blur XC. I think it climbs a better too (at least
    in my exp. in riding with people with ML's.)
    I hate it when threads turn into brand flame-wars.......

    But really when you come to the titus board and make a statement like "going beyond the paint issue, the blur XC, from what I've seen anyway, also looks like its built better." and " I think it climbs a better too (at least in my exp. in riding with people with ML's.)", well then, you are asking to get flamed.

    I've owned three santa cruz's, the first two cracked and the third was visibly out-of alignment, but you won't see me rubbing that in on the SC board.

    Flame on then!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Not dissing SC or you, Coati... but I've seen both a '05 ML and '05 Blur Classic. The Blur as a frame before being built. A white one, btw.

    I was not impressed with the overall finish of the bike. I know about the paint issues on the '06 ML's, and I recall that I thought back then that the paint finish on the Blur was rather low quality. The finishes were not top notch either. The edges of the shock mounting gussets were sharp and the paint looked very thin on those areas (believe me I've seen a couple paint jobs done)

    The lower pivots had burrs and a tool mark from assembly. The frame preparation looked like (as we say in Mexico) "made with the teeth"... and overall, not better than any Giant I've seen.

    Actually, it was hard to believe that Blur came off the same line of production as some V10's / VP-Free's and Hecklers that I've seen. It could have been I just saw a lemon, maybe.

    In comparison, the '05 ML my buddy Rzoz has, looks really impressive. Certainly, it looked much more like a 1350 bucks frame.

    I do not have a doubt SC makes awesome bikes and that they ride very good. VPP can be your cup of tea or not. Many people feel the bike "disconnected" from the trail and find the chain induced tension to lock a bit suspension on some situations.

    As for the chainstays of the ML having "some CNC work, but some welds close to it"... to make the ML chainstays to have more CNC job, you'd have to make the HL clevises and the chainstay yoke even bigger. The welds are fine on that place.


    As it has been said before (even on that infamous Yeti Vs. Titus thread)... there's no such thing as a perfect bike. If the Blur is THE bike for you, fine. Props to you.
    Believe me, Warp, I'm not being unoquivacally supportive of the blur.
    I guess there enough issues about them in the past that SC reengineered a lot
    of the stuff for '06. If you compare the old vs. the new, its definitely a cleaner
    design, the link plates are titaniun now, etc. You are right about the weld
    placement on the ML chainstays. Thats where they should be. I erred in that
    statement.
    As far as your quote here:
    Many people feel the bike "disconnected" from the trail and find the chain induced tension to lock a bit suspension on some situations.
    I dont think VPP is perfect. Every suspension design has tradeoffs. I think SC did a good
    job of engineering most of the bad VPP characteristics of VPP, for ex., the tendency
    for pedal feedback, out of the design. In fact I have yet to notice any pedal feedback,
    even when hammering out of the saddle in the granny ring.

    I'm not sure what you mean by disconnected. One of the things I like about this suspension is the smooth transition between standing and seated
    climbing. The suspension feels the same in both situations. When you hit a rock
    or bump on a climb, that force overcomes any stiffening of the suspension, so
    actually its a very efficient design from a pedaling standpoint.
    If you mean allowing the rear wheel to be totally neutral to follow every
    trail contour as in a HL design, no VPP doesnt do that. Thats part of the
    tradeoff in the design. Overall, both great designs. I would be happy on either one,
    as long as its well executed in the bicycle Im riding.

  43. #43
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    But when demo_slug posts a picture of an obviously old blur to make a point
    about new blurs, its seems like hes being a little misleading. And I'm still a little
    suspicious of that picture. Cant tell whether that pinch hes showing is legit or not.
    dude, you got issues, U make me laugh.

    In regards to the picture, I just grabbed the first picture I saw on the santa cruz board of a blur that didn't have a tire on it. dude.... you are wrong just admit it..... the picture is real. its absurd to think I manufactured the picture. and I never said that was a 2006. by the way, I would bet money it is a 2006 "blur XC". follow the link that warp provided.



    disclaimer:
    I like the blur and think SC products are rad. my only intent of bringing up the bent tubes was to cap on coati.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    In my prior post I did not say the build quality of the ML was bad. Notice that if I
    dont know something for sure I dont state it unoquivically - did I spell that right ? -
    My English is poor, really, really poor, but shouldn't it be spelled "unequivocally"?; however, probably it doesn't matter a lot (oh well, it does for me because I still learning English, but that's another story)

    Saying that

    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    Another thing I should mention about your picture, thats clearly an old blur.
    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    Did you manipulate that picture ?
    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    And I'm still a little
    suspicious of that picture. Cant tell whether that pinch hes showing is legit or not.
    without even knowing where the picture came from at first, but knowing that some post later, doesn't seem to be an objective attitude.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    dude, you got issues, U make me laugh.

    In regards to the picture, I just grabbed the first picture I saw on the santa cruz board of a blur that didn't have a tire on it. dude.... you are wrong just admit it..... the picture is real. its absurd to think I manufactured the picture. and I never said that was a 2006. by the way, I would bet money it is a 2006 "blur XC". follow the link that warp provided.



    disclaimer:
    I like the blur and think SC products are rad. my only intent of bringing up the bent tubes was to cap on coati.
    Me ? I have issues ? Youre the one that keeps insisting something thats
    already been proven false. Obviously youre agenda is more about dissing the
    blur than sticking to facts.

  46. #46
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by coati
    Me ? I have issues ? Youre the one that keeps insisting something thats
    already been proven false. Obviously youre agenda is more about dissing the
    blur than sticking to facts.
    proven false????

    OK now I know you just kidding. have a nice one dude. what a hoot!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    proven false????

    OK now I know you just kidding. have a nice one dude. what a hoot!
    This demo_slug has something! Not only "manipulated" (Photoshop maybe?) the picture in the Santa Cruz forum, but also some others in the net:

    Another one
    Attached Images Attached Images

  48. #48
    thats right living legend
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    Wait Just A minute!!!

    [QUOTE=Tavinho]This demo_slug has something! Not only "manipulated" (Photoshop maybe?) the picture in the Santa Cruz forum, but also some others in the net:



    How'd Demo manage to manipulate all these diffrent photos on the net???


    Mad computer skillz...

  49. #49
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    I think maybe it could be, rather than an issue of one necessarily being
    constructed better than the other, just the nature of the VPP design
    lends itself to be more prone to this kind of thing. Then again, theres
    a difference between a creak and a squeak. Personally, me, Im not
    gonna be freaked out by a little squeak. A creak, thats another story.
    You wanna get to the bottom of that. There are many good bikes
    that might squeak a little from time to time.
    Tituses will probably squeak less because they are a simpler
    mac strut design. You could also get the Taiwanese made
    Jamis Dakar, which is almost exactly the same design as the
    Tituses - mac strut with a swing link - I imagine they would
    also squeak less than a blur.
    I guess the bottom line Im trying to get to is, I dont see
    too much in complaining about having to replace the bearings
    in bikes that are over a year old.
    For the unlucky folks like the BLT owner that happened to get
    a frame with a defect, thats what the warranty is for.
    And Ive heard SC is very good about taking care of people,
    even beyond the warranty they have covered stuff that
    they didnt have to. Ive heard nothing but good things
    about SC standing behind their bikes. (Look at
    some of the reviews of the original blur on this site)

  50. #50
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness

    How'd Demo manage to manipulate all these diffrent photos on the net???


    Mad computer skillz...

    I did it to further my agenda. see.... I used to have a hot pink santa cruz Rob Roskopp skate board. back in the mid 80s, I was attempting a bonless off the roof of my dads saab, I landed on my head. I blame Rob Roskopp. this was my mad 20 year long plot to get back at him. but... I've been discovered.

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