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  1. #1
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    Stripped my Racer X to sell.... but.....

    .... I'm having second thoughts. The story is, I built this bike at the end of the 2003 Fall MTB series in Austin Texas. I raced the bike for one spring series then took a hiatus from racing. I brought the bike back to race one more time in 2008, then had a new Racer X 29er built up. I've always thought my Racer X 26er was the best handling bike ever made, but got caught up in going all 29er (I now have three 29ers), but to this day I still believe the RX 26er was the best. As I stripped this frame this weekend I realized how little use this bike has had, and thought why not throw a new RP23 and Fox F80 on it and take it racing again.

    I'm really thinking this bike should stay, some thoughts about selling are my dislike of how things with Titus has transpired over the years, and if I do break it can I get parts? My frame has new bearings and is in good shape, so I don't reckon it'll break any time soon.

    So forum... keep, spend some money on it and race it again? Or let Ebay decide her fate.

    I should share one more detail, I upgraded to longer travel bikes and 29ers because racing Texas was on more technical and bumpy trails than Australia, now most tracks are quite smooth, and a quick steering RX w/ 3 inches of travel fits the bill nicely.

    Here she is the day I got her:



    And her she is today......

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  2. #2
    Chilling out
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    Only thing I'd say is I have seen a bunch of people regret selling a Titus but nobody regret holding on to one. If you NEED not sell, don't.

    Separate question: if you think you'd really get good miles out of her on the race course then build her up. Maybe 1x10. It is a chunk of change to do that though.

  3. #3
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    OT, what saddle you got there?

    Been looking for a saddle similar to the WTB Devo but not as wide in the back.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG View Post
    OT, what saddle you got there?

    Been looking for a saddle similar to the WTB Devo but not as wide in the back.
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  5. #5
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    I guess most folks who have sold their Racer X probably don't check back here often.. But has anyone sold theirs and regretted it?
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  6. #6
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    Well I don't own one but I'd keep it just because that kind of bike is getting hard to come buy. A nice light 26" race bike is good to have. If there isn't any signs of wear (cracks, dents) I'd polish it back up and slap some new parts on it.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  7. #7
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    I sold my 2003 Rx for a 2008 RX 29er I have never looked back, I like the 29er roll. The wife still rides her 2004 RX 26er and to this day I really do no think there is any better 26er for her, she has demoed plenty of bikes but still gravitates to the RX. The only possible upgrade would be carbon fiber because of the weight savings, the geo , the travel, just all work for her.

    I have a lot of miles on my RX 29er and still like it. I could upgrade to a carbon Tallboy or a carbon Niner Jet 9 to save a pound but honestly It would not make me faster.

    The RX's are just damn good frames, with a great efficient suspension.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    I sold my 2003 Rx for a 2008 RX 29er I have never looked back, I like the 29er roll. The wife still rides her 2004 RX 26er and to this day I really do no think there is any better 26er for her, she has demoed plenty of bikes but still gravitates to the RX. The only possible upgrade would be carbon fiber because of the weight savings, the geo , the travel, just all work for her.

    I have a lot of miles on my RX 29er and still like it. I could upgrade to a carbon Tallboy or a carbon Niner Jet 9 to save a pound but honestly It would not make me faster.

    The RX's are just damn good frames, with a great efficient suspension.
    You're just like me, I upgraded at the same time. I have NEVER looked back until now, as I try to offload the old frame. While I've liked my RX 29er, it's never had the same wow factor as the 26er did. Even the few rides I've done it over the years I was always happy to be back on it. For a marathon bike the RX 29er is the best option, but for short XC races I think I'd prefer my 26er.

    Decisions.. decisions!
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  9. #9
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    I bet you'd take it off some sweet jumps too. show the readers your 3 feet of sweet air.

  10. #10
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    If the frame owes you nothing than hold onto it. Toss it in the corner some where and just let it sit till end of summer. If you're still happy you have it good, if not then sell it.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  11. #11
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    Honestly, if your going to replace it with a XC 26er full suspension frame [ 80mm to 100mm] your wasting a lot of cash IMHO. If your looking for a HT or a trail bike, 120mm/140mm/160mm or a 29er, then so be it. Used RX frames sell for about 400.00, tough call.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Honestly, if your going to replace it with a XC 26er full suspension frame [ 80mm to 100mm] your wasting a lot of cash IMHO. If your looking for a HT or a trail bike, 120mm/140mm/160mm or a 29er, then so be it. Used RX frames sell for about 400.00, tough call.
    I have a Racer X 29er, Ventana El Rey 29er, and a True Fab custom SS 29er... But I went that route living in Texas where the trails were much rougher. In Australia the trails are much smoother, so I'm thinking 80mm 26er might be more fun and effective. I also have 10 bikes right now, so I'm trying to thin the herd down to 2 MTB (1 geared / 1 SS), CX, Road, and commuter. That means getting ride of 5 bikes! Is the 26er RX my choice of MTB... certainly not for All Mountain riding , the Ventana gets the nod on that front. Really I'd be ditching my RX 29er to go back to my RX 26er.... still a hard decision to make.
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  13. #13
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    Similar situation. I just got an '10 5 Spot and was going to switch most of the components over and decomission the RX/HH100x because it had an all new drive train and the frame was getting old.

    In the end I just couldn't do it. Partly because the new Turner deserved some new parts but also because I just couldn't bear to see the RX out of service.

    Such a great bike. In the end, the only parts I borrowed from the RX were the seat and the brakes. I'll get it built back up and use it as a back up and a loaner bike for friends and family.

    In the end it's worth way more to me than what I could get for it.
    Last edited by KRob; 07-12-2011 at 11:21 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Similar situation. I just got an '10 5 Spot and was going to switch most of the components over and decomission the RX/HH100x because it had a new drive train and was getting old.

    In the end I just couldn't do it. Partly because the new Turner deserved some new parts but also because I just couldn't bear to see the RX out of service.

    Such a great bike. In the end, the only parts I borrowed from the RX were the seat and the brakes. I'll get it built back up and use it as a back up and a loaner bike for friends and family.

    In the end it's worth way more to me than what I could get for it.
    I'm glad you can relate. I don't think I can part ways with it. I actually think I'm going to send the fork and shock to PUSH, then build her up with some new wheels, brakes, and then go racing again. Don't get me wrong I love my 29ers, but for 2 hour XC races the Racer X is unbeatable.

    Thanks for helping me see the light.
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  15. #15
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    Another one saved from ebay!
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  16. #16
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    Is there any particular advantage of the 26 that your new 29er can't provide? That's the real question isn't it?
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  17. #17
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    I've tried to sell mine twice to go with a longer travel bike. I'm glad it didn't sell now! I rode my 120 XC bike for a couple of months and went right back to the RX. Great bike for most situations on my trails and I manage the rough stuff pretty well on it too. One rocky downhill section still gives me the willies but I don't mind walking 20 yards too really enjoy the single track and blister the climbs.
    Disclaimer: Always get a second opinion cause I'm just guessing

  18. #18
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    rearmirror, i feel your pain too.

  19. #19
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    I'm going through the same thing. I recently purchased a Tallboy and now I'm in the process of building a ridged SS 29er. I stripped my Racer X down and started selling the parts but I am not sure i want to sell the frame. Honestly how much do you think you will get for it? A couple hundred dollars? Unless you really need that money I say keep it; you never know what the future may bring you and you might regret selling it.

  20. #20
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    I'd sell it. I went to a Racer X and sold my Felt HT....I only got a couple hundred bucks for the Felt and I was regretting it because I really liked the frame, but the reality is, unless the bike is built up, it's just gonna sit around unused anyways. There are enough used Racer X frames out there that you could get another one down the road.

  21. #21
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    Getting parts so far is easy and fast from on one. Just got a new seat stay for my racer x ti. But keeping a stable full of bikes....not so sure about that. It could be somebody's best bike ever instead of a guest bike. I have a old colnago like that it just hangs there. It was the best crit bike 30 years ago....I would probably sell it to someone who would appreciate it.
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  22. #22
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    back to racer x for me...

    My Racer X story...

    Bought a Racer X in 2003 from Charles at Hammerhead. Loved the bike. Front triangle broke at the seat stay/top tube area in 2009. Ended up buying a Motolite to replace it.

    Liked the Motolite well enough, but it just was not the same. I was used to the firm suspension and quick handling of the Racer X. I was constantly pushing the Motolite into corners the Racer X flew through.

    I contacted the new Titus last week. They had a Large front triangle in stock so I decided to pick it up. Rode it last Sunday and loved it! Nothing against the Motolite, but is is not the same bike.

    To each their own, but the Racer X is the perfect bike for me and my type of riding - xc stuff.

    PS - Titus also told me they have rear ends on order from their vendor, so getting parts will be no problem.

    Good luck with your decision...but I say keep it!

  23. #23
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    I'm happy they are still getting parts for bikes from distributers. I'd hate to see guys with bikes less than 3 years old be out over a broken seat/chain stay or something small like a suspension linkage/rocker.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  24. #24
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    I have had 3 racer x bikes over the years, and sold each of them to move to a lighter rigid frame set up. My first was a gray ano 2002, then a 2004. Both of these were 80 mm bikes. Later I owned a 100 mm hammerhead. The early bike was my favorite with pushed shock and fork, and I wish I had not sold it. The longer travel bike was not on my list of great bikes and was glad to see it find a new home. After a 3 year period of riding a rigid 29er I am once again looking at another Racer X frame. Unfortunately its a long travel frame so I am concerned it will end up like the hammerhead. Of all the bikes I have owned the racer x keeps popping back up on my screen and is one of those bikes you can really trust to deliver great performance. If Iget another I am going to do myself a favor and keep it this time.

  25. #25
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    I say keep it and ss it out with a paul or yess tensioner. Would make an awesome fs ss imo. The thing about fs ss is you can bomb through rough sections and carry all that momentum whereas with a ht or rigid your always looking for the best lines.

    I ss'ed my ML in the 4" setting just for kicks and was amazed at how different of a ride it was compared to rigid and ht ss.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by N10S View Post
    I have had 3 racer x bikes over the years, and sold each of them to move to a lighter rigid frame set up. My first was a gray ano 2002, then a 2004. Both of these were 80 mm bikes. Later I owned a 100 mm hammerhead. The early bike was my favorite with pushed shock and fork, and I wish I had not sold it. The longer travel bike was not on my list of great bikes and was glad to see it find a new home. After a 3 year period of riding a rigid 29er I am once again looking at another Racer X frame. Unfortunately its a long travel frame so I am concerned it will end up like the hammerhead. Of all the bikes I have owned the racer x keeps popping back up on my screen and is one of those bikes you can really trust to deliver great performance. If Iget another I am going to do myself a favor and keep it this time.
    Great story. I have a 2004 Ano Gray, I've not sold it yet, the frame is just hanging in my garage. I think you've convinced me to keep it, after all there was never a better FS 26er XC machine ever sold!
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crosstown Stew View Post
    I say keep it and ss it out with a paul or yess tensioner. Would make an awesome fs ss imo. The thing about fs ss is you can bomb through rough sections and carry all that momentum whereas with a ht or rigid your always looking for the best lines.

    I ss'ed my ML in the 4" setting just for kicks and was amazed at how different of a ride it was compared to rigid and ht ss.
    Great advice! I will look for a way to convert the old '03 XTR crankset into a 1x, and run a tensioner on the rear. I am really loving the FS SS idea! It will complement my rigid 29er SS quite well.
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    I'm in the same boat. My 2005 HH100X is the Energizer Bunny....keeps on keepin' on. I've got a line on a 2007 Motolite for under $600 and I'm tempted to swap parts off the HH to do it on the cheap, but after reading this thread, I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just send my rear shock to PUSH and continue on the HH. The flickability factor of this platform simply cannot be denied. I may pick up the ML anyway as it's a really good deal IMHO.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jgang View Post
    I'm in the same boat. My 2005 HH100X is the Energizer Bunny....keeps on keepin' on. I've got a line on a 2007 Motolite for under $600 and I'm tempted to swap parts off the HH to do it on the cheap, but after reading this thread, I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just send my rear shock to PUSH and continue on the HH. The flickability factor of this platform simply cannot be denied. I may pick up the ML anyway as it's a really good deal IMHO.
    Keep it and rebuild the suspension, you'll be happy you did.

    I bought all my bikes from the Hammerhead shop in Austin. Great guys, and that bike is legendary!!!
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    If the frame owes you nothing than hold onto it. Toss it in the corner some where and just let it sit till end of summer. If you're still happy you have it good, if not then sell it.
    Yeah... TiEndo convinced me to throw mine in a corner... the only reason I haven't built it back up is I haven't found an XL Lefty to fit the HT.

    But it doesn't eat, really doesn't take up much room and what the heck, when I die, someone will find it and go "Holy shite!"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Stripped my Racer X to sell.... but.....-img_5673w.jpg  

    Stripped my Racer X to sell.... but.....-img_5674w.jpg  

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  31. #31
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    ^^^ Exogrid is definitely worth hanging on to.... I wouldn't sell that bike ever. In fact, I'd jump on an Exogrid RX or HT if I could find one! I do miss the "old Titus" (the company), I wish things would have gone differently.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rearviewmirror View Post
    Keep it and rebuild the suspension, you'll be happy you did.

    I bought all my bikes from the Hammerhead shop in Austin. Great guys, and that bike is legendary!!!
    Agreed! Charles was a pleasure to deal with. I was only in San Antone for a short time, but I managed to buy a Racer X AND a HH100X from him. Really learned a lot about suspension from him.

    I think I'll keep the HH and buy it a stable mate in the form of a ML2. I mean, can you have too many bikes at only TWO!!??

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rearviewmirror View Post
    You're just like me, I upgraded at the same time. I have NEVER looked back until now, as I try to offload the old frame. While I've liked my RX 29er, it's never had the same wow factor as the 26er did. Even the few rides I've done it over the years I was always happy to be back on it. For a marathon bike the RX 29er is the best option, but for short XC races I think I'd prefer my 26er.

    Decisions.. decisions!
    Rearview.... I too have a RX29er and I too am thinking my 26er handled and pedaled better. I'm rolling the 29er now, but as I posted below, the 26er is sitting in a corner... I don't regret a thing... as TiEndo told me, you won't get much for the frame on EBay and you might as well hold onto it... someday you may get back on it and go "yanno they don't build 'em like this anymore!"
    Dug-Da-Goat

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rearviewmirror View Post
    ^^^ Exogrid is definitely worth hanging on to.... I wouldn't sell that bike ever. In fact, I'd jump on an Exogrid RX or HT if I could find one! I do miss the "old Titus" (the company), I wish things would have gone differently.
    Exo, alum... doesn't matter... once upon a time the Racer-X was what EVERY company was trying to match on the race course... Spez had to roll out the Epic as a response! No doubt... a classic frame design that performs just as well today!

    And if there was any doubt.... 5 out of 5 in 2003 with 48 responses.... if that isn't a testament, I don't know what is!

    Titus Racer-X 2003 Full Suspension Reviews
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  35. #35
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    Well, I found a buyer for my Racer-X yesterday. I have a tough time parting with it because I remember my excitement as I pulled the newly-arrived frame out of the box at the shop; and it's carried me on some great rides and to some incredible race finishes.

    What makes the whole thing better is that it is going to a friend that lives in town who wants to get started mountain biking and compete in endurance races eventually. It'll be a perfect bike for him and serve him as well as it did for me.

    I would rather it help make my friend a great rider than have it hang on my wall with no one to enjoy it.

  36. #36
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    racer x

    So what happened?
    You still have the bike?
    I have about the same bike, a 2002 racer X in size L.
    Mine is a mix of new and old parts.
    I ride 8 speed XTR m950 cogs with SRAM XO and XTR 2010 in front, matched to gripshift 8 speed shifters (attack).
    Got 2008 Tune wheels and a 2010 Rockshox SID.
    Brake levers: Altek's from 1997!
    I read all about the new 29-er hype and I drool over the high end carbon 29-ers but I am very happy with my Titus racer-X and will not sell it, probably never.
    Luckily all my bearings are still in excellent shape, even after 1000's of miles. I got some spare horst link friction bearings but changing those is not easy....!
    Here is my racer X, as build up in 2007 orso.....:



    Good luck building yours back up again and go ride!
    looking for Adroit Strata fork in 21", preferred color = burgundy blue - THANKS

  37. #37
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    Personally I think the 2011 and 2012 bikes are more of a regression then a progression for the cycling industry. I say that because of the two trends going through the cycling industry, those being the 29er and the 2x10 drive train systems. So far there is very little proof that 29er's are any faster then 26er's. In fact from the head to head tests I have seen in magazines they have always under inflated the 26ers tires to giving the 29er an advantage. This is because of Boyles Law which says (Volume*Pressure=constant). If you test both 29er and 26er tires at identical tire pressure the 29er tires get an automatic advantage because of 29ers increased volume. This means the tire side walls of 29er tire is going to deflect less when rolling making for less tire rolling resistance. To put it bluntly the tests were rigged. In my opinion I believe that the right tire selection and pressure makes more difference then tire size in the 26er vs 29er battle.

    In their quest for the perfect shift both Shimano and SRAM adopted the 2x10 drive train systems dropping the 44 tooth big chain ring and forcing riders to use a 42 tooth big ring. While this doesn't seem like a big deal it means mountain bikers will be spun out quicker on any thing looks like a long decent. In fact itís a real kill joy to be going down hill and to be spun out at 40 KPH. Thanks Shimano!

    With that being said, these are my two main arguments for hanging on to your current Titus Racer-X until the year 2013-2014 when hopefully sanity once again will return to the cycling industry.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel View Post
    In fact from the head to head tests I have seen in magazines they have always under inflated the 26ers tires to giving the 29er an advantage. This is because of Boyles Law which says (Volume*Pressure=constant). If you test both 29er and 26er tires at identical tire pressure the 29er tires get an automatic advantage because of 29ers increased volume. This means the tire side walls of 29er tire is going to deflect less when rolling making for less tire rolling resistance. To put it bluntly the tests were rigged.
    I'm not discounting magazines and reviewers presenting a biased report, but I think you might be missing one point on the 29 vs 26 debate. As someone who has both, and rides both, and LOVES both, the debate of tire pressure could be explained as such:

    With the larger contact patch provided by a 29" tire, you can run a relatively higher pressure and still maintain traction. The smaller patch of the 26" requires a slightly lower pressure to maintain that same amount of traction.

    I'm not saying the test was rigged or not, but you are essentially comparing apples and oranges when talking about either of those bike wheel sizes. I recognize each has their place and I don't think we need to try to decide on any new standards.

  39. #39
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    I think the new owners of Titus still have some spares, you should call them up if there is something you need specifically.

  40. #40
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    It sounds like 29ers and 2x10 drivetrains may not be ideal for your needs. Isn't it great, though that the industry still makes lots of 26" wheels and that 3x9 drivetrains are on sale cheap? You should be a happy guy!

    While the cycling industry pushes innovation to make money through replacements and upgrades, they would not be successful pushing a newer product that is inferior simply because people just wouldn't buy it. Consumers express preferences with their wallets (Blu-ray vs HD DVD; iPod vs. Zune).

    Your assumption is that people buy 29ers and 2x10 merely to be faster. People purchase 29ers for lots of reasons, not always because a magazine or shootout says they'll gain a second or two. It could be ride quality. It could be looks!

    With regard to 2x10, I see both racing and all around trail riding as great applications. The 36t rear cassette is simply revolutionary. I've been running 2x9 for years with a bash ring replacement for the 44t on my trail bike and love the simplicity of it.

    I am moving to a 2x10 to race on next year simply because in races I forget to shift the front rings and cross-chain 44 to 34 and destroy perfectly good cassettes. My races are won and lost on climbs, not on cranking an extra couple of teeth on descents. The good 2x systems shift in the front better under tremendous load as well, for those brain-dead moments guys like me are prone to.

    What kind of innovation are you hoping for in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel View Post
    Personally I think the 2011 and 2012 bikes are more of a regression then a progression for the cycling industry. I say that because of the two trends going through the cycling industry, those being the 29er and the 2x10 drive train systems. So far there is very little proof that 29er's are any faster then 26er's. In fact from the head to head tests I have seen in magazines they have always under inflated the 26ers tires to giving the 29er an advantage. This is because of Boyles Law which says (Volume*Pressure=constant). If you test both 29er and 26er tires at identical tire pressure the 29er tires get an automatic advantage because of 29ers increased volume. This means the tire side walls of 29er tire is going to deflect less when rolling making for less tire rolling resistance. To put it bluntly the tests were rigged. In my opinion I believe that the right tire selection and pressure makes more difference then tire size in the 26er vs 29er battle.

    In their quest for the perfect shift both Shimano and SRAM adopted the 2x10 drive train systems dropping the 44 tooth big chain ring and forcing riders to use a 42 tooth big ring. While this doesn't seem like a big deal it means mountain bikers will be spun out quicker on any thing looks like a long decent. In fact itís a real kill joy to be going down hill and to be spun out at 40 KPH. Thanks Shimano!

    With that being said, these are my two main arguments for hanging on to your current Titus Racer-X until the year 2013-2014 when hopefully sanity once again will return to the cycling industry.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlim View Post
    It sounds like 29ers and 2x10 drivetrains may not be ideal for your needs. Isn't it great, though that the industry still makes lots of 26" wheels and that 3x9 drivetrains are on sale cheap? You should be a happy guy!

    While the cycling industry pushes innovation to make money through replacements and upgrades, they would not be successful pushing a newer product that is inferior simply because people just wouldn't buy it. Consumers express preferences with their wallets (Blu-ray vs HD DVD; iPod vs. Zune).

    Your assumption is that people buy 29ers and 2x10 merely to be faster. People purchase 29ers for lots of reasons, not always because a magazine or shootout says they'll gain a second or two. It could be ride quality. It could be looks!

    With regard to 2x10, I see both racing and all around trail riding as great applications. The 36t rear cassette is simply revolutionary. I've been running 2x9 for years with a bash ring replacement for the 44t on my trail bike and love the simplicity of it.

    I am moving to a 2x10 to race on next year simply because in races I forget to shift the front rings and cross-chain 44 to 34 and destroy perfectly good cassettes. My races are won and lost on climbs, not on cranking an extra couple of teeth on descents. The good 2x systems shift in the front better under tremendous load as well, for those brain-dead moments guys like me are prone to.

    What kind of innovation are you hoping for in 2014?

    While I do like the cheaper prices I reconogize that these cheaper prices are a prelude to forcing all mountain bikers to ride 29ers. As most bikes shops are not going to want to have to deal with two different wheel sizes with double the inventory. While 29er's are great for taller riders it pretty much screws over any women who is shorter then 5'4".

    You also must realize that the vast majority of mountain bikers aren't big ring bashers such as your self and use their bikes in their local city parks and pathways. Thus they need a drive train that can handle both high speed tarmac riding as well as slow going trail riding. The problem with the latest drive trains offering from both Shimano and SRAM is they lost focus of the typical joe cyclist and decided to cater to the trail riding ring basher and bike park riders. We can also throw in the closed course XC racer in their as well. This is ironic because these types of riders don't ussally run XTR as they are to hard on parts.

    So it is my hope that Shimano and SRAM will recongize their mistakes and bring back a drive train for the every day mountain biker/commuter that offers a little more top end speed. So hopefully by they 2013 or 2014 season when my drive train will need replacing.

  42. #42
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    I understand that you dislike 29ers and 42t chainrings, but what I don't understand is your reasoning process that leads you to believe that the industry is forcing riders to use these products against their will. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but its just not objectively true.

    My local shop carries Easton EA90 29er and 26er wheels right along side each other. The Roval 26" and 29" are both there along with bikes of both types. They haven't said anything about it being a pain in the a** to deal with having both right there on the floor. In fact, my local shop carries bikes and wheels that are 700c, 650c, 20" BMX, and various axles too; 9mm qr, 15mm TA, 20mm TA, and 142x12mm TA!

    Not once have the local bike shops forced someone to buy a 26" mountain bike who came in wanting a 20" BMX because they didn't want to stock the 20" wheel size.

    29ers have been available since the 90s and haven't eliminated anything (except maybe 650b bikes that never really took off). In the 90s 3x8 drivetrains were 20/30/40 with a 12-28t rear cassette. Surely less high-gear options there?

    For 2012, Shimano continues to make their high end groups XT and XTR available in 3x10, including a 44t big ring if you want it.

    Road bikes continue to have triple, double, compact double and mid-compact double options.

    Hope and Specialized are working on 9-36t rear cassettes for options beyond 11-36t. Shimano makes a commuter-oriented Capreo group right now that has a 9-36t. There's your two extra teeth lost from the front if you choose not to ride a 22x32x44, but what I'm saying is you can go buy the latest 44t in a 26" for 2012 right now.

    There is no conspiracy to stop you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel View Post
    While I do like the cheaper prices I reconogize that these cheaper prices are a prelude to forcing all mountain bikers to ride 29ers. As most bikes shops are not going to want to have to deal with two different wheel sizes with double the inventory. While 29er's are great for taller riders it pretty much screws over any women who is shorter then 5'4".

    You also must realize that the vast majority of mountain bikers aren't big ring bashers such as your self and use their bikes in their local city parks and pathways. Thus they need a drive train that can handle both high speed tarmac riding as well as slow going trail riding. The problem with the latest drive trains offering from both Shimano and SRAM is they lost focus of the typical joe cyclist and decided to cater to the trail riding ring basher and bike park riders. We can also throw in the closed course XC racer in their as well. This is ironic because these types of riders don't ussally run XTR as they are to hard on parts.

    So it is my hope that Shimano and SRAM will recongize their mistakes and bring back a drive train for the every day mountain biker/commuter that offers a little more top end speed. So hopefully by they 2013 or 2014 season when my drive train will need replacing.
    Last edited by schlim; 10-10-2011 at 05:54 PM.

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    Hey Schlim, sorry for taking so long to respond to your comment, I just wanted to check the "Meters of Development" (roll out) for the 2012 crank offerings. As suspected all of this years 29ers are still over geared and both Shimano and SRAM are going to have a heck of a time of trying to acivehce the low "Roll Out" of 24/34 geared 26er at 1.354 meters per crank turn. The lowest "Roll Out" Shimano could come up with for a 29er is a still 24/34 gear combination at 1.550 meters which is 14% larger then the coresponding 26er setup. If and when Shimano comes out with a 38 toothed rear cassette it will come in at 1.468 meters for a 24/28 geared 29er. Which is still about 8.5% higher then the conventional 24/36 geared 26er.

    So I still stand by my original assessment that the 44-32-24 geared crank set paired with an 11-34 cassette 26er is still the hot set up. So I suggest hanging on to those old XTR 970 cranks ladies and gentlemen and pray that Shimano fixes their mistake when next generation XTR 990 stuff comes out.

    Since bike shops sell what Shimano, Trek, Specialized and Giant produce if they collectively decide on a trend such as all full suspension bikes with 100 mm of travel will be 29er's then there is not much a consumer can do it except grin and bare it. Thankfully that hasn't happened yet but looking at the 2012 Specialized line up the 26er's are starting to get few and far between.

    Schlim just so you know every few years the bicycle industry goes off on a wild tangent. For instance there was a couple of years where Shimano forced oval (biopace) chain rings on everybody. They were infamous for chain suck which is why Shimano brought back normal circular chain rings again. So while they may not be a planned conspiracy it doesn't mean were not going to get screw over.

    Oh and as for being able to buy a brand new 44 tooth crankset, your right you can as there are some older generation XTR and XT cranks floating around.


  44. #44
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    I'll post one more reply on the subject of industry conspiracy to force crappy products on consumers, and then you can have the last word if you'd like.

    To recap your arguments (my comments, both previous and updated, appended):

    1. 29ers are slower. Tire pressure is to blame.
    People don't always buy 29ers to be fast.

    2. 2x10 forces riders to use a 42t chainring. It makes you slower descending.
    Who cares? I race and don't like accidentally cross-chaining because it puts wear on expensive parts.

    3. In 2014, the industry will do something other than 29 and 2x10.
    The cycling industry is always innovating, but consumers won't buy if it stinks.

    4. The industry is forcing 29ers on the public.
    There are lots of 26" bikes to buy right now. Including some from Specialized. Specialized makes the Epic, the Stumpjumper, Stumpjumper FSR, and Camber all in both 26" and 29" versions. People can buy what they like.

    5. Shops don't want to carry various wheel sizes.
    They already do and don't care. For example; BMX 20, road 650 and 700, 26, and 29.

    6. 29ers are for tall people
    29ers are bought by people who like the ride. Willow Koerber is 5'2" and chooses to race a Superfly 29.

    7. Bikes are also for commuting not just bashing, and 2x10 is for bashers
    Thought the idea was to be faster? 2x drivetrains are typically bashring-less unless you adapt a 3 ring crankset or run a Race Face SIX-C.

    8. Something questioning XTR durability
    Whatever. XTR is best of breed if you want lightest possible.

    9. 29ers are geared too high at 24x34
    I thought there weren't enough high gear options? See comment 2. Regardless, 29" on 24/38t x 11-36 (Spec Epic) yields 1.4 low. 29" on 22/32/44t x 11-34 yields 1.4 low. 26" on 22/32/44t x 11-34 yields 1.2 low (with 1.4 being next lowest). Sure seems pretty low to me. If one ratio lost is too tough, stop whining and get stronger. But I thought 2x10 sucked because it wasn't high enough?

    10. 3 ring cranksets are only available on old XTR
    3 ring is available now for 2012 in new dyna-sys. Sparking and new.

    11. Schlim doesn't get that the industry doesn't have good ideas sometimes
    Schlim realizes that consumers hated rapid rise, dual control on mountain bikes, elastomers in forks, girvin flex stems, and single pivot unified triangle trek Ys. People buy what they want, regardless of what the industry comes up with. Bad ideas go away. 29ers haven't. 2x10 is one option, but seems to be a good one for many. Oh, and many Tour riders used Rotor eccentric rings this year.

    12. 44t XTR cranksets are only closeouts.
    See 10. You can buy a new 2012 dyna-sys three ring 30 speed group now. And all next year, if you'd like. You can also buy the older non dyna-sys cheap.

    You have a lot of arguments and points going at once, some contradictory, but what it comes down to is that you don't like some of the newer stuff that other people seem to. Cool, ride on what makes you happy. Stock up on some stuff now if you are worried it will go away.

    Happy trails!

    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel View Post
    Hey Schlim, sorry for taking so long to respond to your comment, I just wanted to check the "Meters of Development" (roll out) for the 2012 crank offerings. As suspected all of this years 29ers are still over geared and both Shimano and SRAM are going to have a heck of a time of trying to acivehce the low "Roll Out" of 24/34 geared 26er at 1.354 meters per crank turn. The lowest "Roll Out" Shimano could come up with for a 29er is a still 24/34 gear combination at 1.550 meters which is 14% larger then the coresponding 26er setup. If and when Shimano comes out with a 38 toothed rear cassette it will come in at 1.468 meters for a 24/28 geared 29er. Which is still about 8.5% higher then the conventional 24/36 geared 26er.

    So I still stand by my original assessment that the 44-32-24 geared crank set paired with an 11-34 cassette 26er is still the hot set up. So I suggest hanging on to those old XTR 970 cranks ladies and gentlemen and pray that Shimano fixes their mistake when next generation XTR 990 stuff comes out.

    Since bike shops sell what Shimano, Trek, Specialized and Giant produce if they collectively decide on a trend such as all full suspension bikes with 100 mm of travel will be 29er's then there is not much a consumer can do it except grin and bare it. Thankfully that hasn't happened yet but looking at the 2012 Specialized line up the 26er's are starting to get few and far between.

    Schlim just so you know every few years the bicycle industry goes off on a wild tangent. For instance there was a couple of years where Shimano forced oval (biopace) chain rings on everybody. They were infamous for chain suck which is why Shimano brought back normal circular chain rings again. So while they may not be a planned conspiracy it doesn't mean were not going to get screw over.

    Oh and as for being able to buy a brand new 44 tooth crankset, your right you can as there are some older generation XTR and XT cranks floating around.

  45. #45
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    I'll post one more reply on the subject of industry conspiracy to force crappy products on consumers, and then you can have the last word if you'd like.

    To recap your arguments (my comments, both previous and updated, appended):

    Thanks for doing the recap! It helps greatly.

    1. 29ers are slower. Tire pressure is to blame.
    People don't always buy 29ers to be fast.

    Hereís a little back story. When the Magazine Mountain Bike Germany did their head to head 26er vs 29er test they ran identical tires at identical pressures. Boyles Law says (pressure *volume=constant). So by fixing the tire pressure and changing the volume they accidentally skewed the test.

    Also from doing some reading on 29erís itís been reported that 29erís have a 5% bigger tire contact patch then 26ers. How that was determined I have no idea. My feeling is that itís a calculated number because if you multiply 2.0*105% you get exactly 2.1. So by the looks of it some one was trying to make a tire size comparison and then relating it to the 26er vs 29er debate.

    It may be that the margin of performance between a 26er and 29er is so small that it is easily over come by other factors such as tire pressure, volume, tread pattern, side wall stiffness, tire wear, even the manufacturing variables between two other wise identical tires maybe be enough to throw off any noticeable performance gains.

    If and when Garmin brings their new vector power meter pedals to mountain biking world we may get a better idea of how all of these variable effects efficiency (watts/KM)

    2. 2x10 forces riders to use a 42t chainring. It makes you slower descending.
    Who cares? I race and don't like accidentally cross-chaining because it puts wear on expensive parts.

    As far as cross-chaining goes that is just a rookie mistake because you should know where all the shift points are on the race course from pre-riding it. But as they say **** happens and some times in unavoidable.

    3. In 2014, the industry will do something other than 29 and 2x10.
    The cycling industry is always innovating, but consumers won't buy if it stinks.

    The bicycle industry is always innovating and unfortunately there is a sucker born every minute who is willing to buy.

    4. The industry is forcing 29ers on the public.
    There are lots of 26" bikes to buy right now. Including some from Specialized. Specialized makes the Epic, the Stumpjumper, Stumpjumper FSR, and Camber all in both 26" and 29" versions. People can buy what they like.

    Today this true, and tomorrow we will be able to purchase any color Ford Model T we want so long as it is black.

    5. Shops don't want to carry various wheel sizes.
    They already do and don't care. For example; BMX 20, road 650 and 700, 26, and 29.

    Bike shops do care what wheel sizes they have to carry because they are forced to pay for and carry inventory to support each wheel size.

    6. 29ers are for tall people
    29ers are bought by people who like the ride. Willow Koerber is 5'2" and chooses to race a Superfly 29.

    Willow switched back to a 26er and was tearing up the race courses with it until she took time off to start a family. Also from what I have seen smaller riders have a harder time controlling the 29ers on real rough technical descents (think Mount St. Anne) because they canít put enough body english in the bike fast enough to over come where the inertia is taking them.


    7. Bikes are also for commuting not just bashing, and 2x10 is for bashers
    Thought the idea was to be faster? 2x drivetrains are typically bashring-less unless you adapt a 3 ring crankset or run a Race Face SIX-C.

    When mountain bikes first came out you were expected to do every thing on that one bike. In recent yearís bike have become a lot more specialized to how they are used. As a result they have lost a lot of utility. But the general idea for cycling progress is to go faster, father, higher.

    8. Something questioning XTR durability
    Whatever. XTR is best of breed if you want lightest possible.

    XTR has the highest strength to weight ratio of all the Shimano mountain groupos. Shimano made itís fortune on its ability to forge aluminum better then any one else in the industry but as the bicycle industry adopts more Carbon Shimano might not do so well. Time will tell.

    9. 29ers are geared too high at 24x34
    I thought there weren't enough high gear options? See comment 2. Regardless, 29" on 24/38t x 11-36 (Spec Epic) yields 1.4 low. 29" on 22/32/44t x 11-34 yields 1.4 low. 26" on 22/32/44t x 11-34 yields 1.2 low (with 1.4 being next lowest). Sure seems pretty low to me. If one ratio lost is too tough, stop whining and get stronger. But I thought 2x10 sucked because it wasn't high enough?

    When you actually look calculate the roll out; roll out is how far the bike travels per each crank turn almost all the 29ers are over geared relative to 26ers. (Initially I hadnít calculated the roll out, my apologies for any confusion or misstatement in this area.)

    10. 3 ring cranksets are only available on old XTR.
    3 ring is available now for 2012 in new dyna-sys. Sparking and new.

    If I some how implied that triple ring crank sets were going away, my apologies, they won't be. Both Shimano and SRAM are going to have a big problem as to how to make a 38 toothed cassette work on a mountain bike. The problem is in how much chain the rear deraileur can take up. In fact I believe this is what forced shimano to drop the 44 tooth large chain ring so thay they could run the big 36 tooth cog in the back.

    11. Schlim doesn't get that the industry doesn't have good ideas sometimes
    Schlim realizes that consumers hated rapid rise, dual control on mountain bikes, elastomers in forks, girvin flex stems, and single pivot unified triangle trek Ys. People buy what they want, regardless of what the industry comes up with. Bad ideas go away. 29ers haven't. 2x10 is one option, but seems to be a good one for many. Oh, and many Tour riders used Rotor eccentric rings this year.

    My only argument here is you can only buy what is available and that is largely influenced by Specialized, Trek, Giant, and Shimano. (It also sounds like you just cleaned out your closet!)


    12. 44t XTR cranksets are only closeouts.
    See 10. You can buy a new 2012 dyna-sys three ring 30 speed group now. And all next year, if you'd like. You can also buy the older non dyna-sys cheap.
    You have a lot of arguments and points going at once, some contradictory, but what it comes down to is that you don't like some of the newer stuff that other people seem to. Cool, ride on what makes you happy. Stock up on some stuff now if you are worried it will go away.

    The whole point of debate and putting arguments forward is to argue towards a higher truth. Itís not really about winning or loosing. We both win when the greater truth is realized. Thanks for help me find it. Happy Trails!

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