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  1. #1
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    Upset Snap goes the Moto...

    I was riding along doing a fairly mellow ride when all of a sudden Wham! my top tube sheers right off. No drops, no big hits, nothing crazy at all. Hopefully Hammerhead/Titus will pull through for me again. I'm waiting to hear back.

    I have a bunch of rides that are coming up soon too, aaaargh!.
    Last edited by woodyak; 05-30-2007 at 02:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    Holy crap! That sucks! That is one nasty break. I hope you're ok. I can't imagine you landed to well when that happened.

    Titus shouldn't have any questions about replacing that puppy, I wouldn't think. That is, unless your idea of a mellow ride includes 12 foot drops in succession.
    IT'S NOT THE FALL THAT HURTS. IT'S WHEN YOU HIT THE GROUND.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I was riding along doing a fairly mellow ride when all of a sudden Wham! my top tube sheers right off. No drops, no big hits, nothing crazy at all. Hopefully Hammerhead/Titus will pull through for me again. I'm waiting to hear back.

    I have a bunch of rides that are coming up soon too, aaaargh!.
    Ouch... sorry to hear (and see at)....

    Best of lucks with the replacement, I'm positive you'll be sorted out.
    Check my Site

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    holy crap!

    I hope it wasn't a nasty fall (when it snapped) ... and hope Titus hooks you up fast....
    Last edited by crisillo; 05-30-2007 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #5
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    sheesh. that's a mess. hope yer OK. sorry to hear about that.

  6. #6
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    I turned out fine. Luckily I was just cruising along on a flat stretch when I was thrown. I did get a small gash in my leg where the top tube cut me and my wrist is a bit tweaked but I've done worse than that on my own.

    Mellow means mellow. Fast singletrack and rocky fireroads. I did a 40 mile road ride yesterday afternoon and played ultimate frisbee for 2 hours last night so this ride was just to spin my legs out.

    I'm not overly concerned about IF they'll take care of me. I'm just concerned about the WHEN. It's prime riding season and I'm stuck on my road bike until this gets fixed...

  7. #7
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    yo FM.... you said this would never happen!!!!!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    yo FM.... you said this would never happen!!!!!!
    Bummer woodyak! This after your chainstay, I think it's time for a beefier frame.

    I don't recall saying never.. just that I had put the motolite to the test and it's been very impressive with it's durability.

    Keep us posted. I think Titus should offer you a super-bro deal on a guapo (i.e. difference between retail prices)

  9. #9
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    ANOTHER JRA from a friend of a shop?????

    Sounds peculiar to me? I've seen so many cool shots from all the MTBR members on their cross-country/trail bikes and never a sheared off head tube where the rider didn't admit to some RedBull Rampage like huck fest.
    Looks like it was driven into a garage, at least thats what my frame looked like when I forgot it was up there.
    I don't know the the specifics but a break like that on a new bike, looks more like abuse than defect form manufacturing.

    I'm no expert, and don't claim to be but I'll tell you if I was a manufacturer of any thing and I saw pictures repeatedly posted on any public forum before I resolved whatever the situation was I'd tell the poster to piss up a rope.

    Defect or not someone just poured bong water in my kool-aid and took the least proffessional or cordial approach to getting resolution.
    Just my 2 cents, and that aint worth nothing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayDrinker
    Sounds peculiar to me? I've seen so many cool shots from all the MTBR members on their cross-country/trail bikes and never a sheared off head tube where the rider didn't admit to some RedBull Rampage like huck fest.
    Looks like it was driven into a garage, at least thats what my frame looked like when I forgot it was up there.
    I don't know the the specifics but a break like that on a new bike, looks more like abuse than defect form manufacturing.

    I'm no expert, and don't claim to be but I'll tell you if I was a manufacturer of any thing and I saw pictures repeatedly posted on any public forum before I resolved whatever the situation was I'd tell the poster to piss up a rope.

    Defect or not someone just poured bong water in my kool-aid and took the least proffessional or cordial approach to getting resolution.
    Just my 2 cents, and that aint worth nothing.
    Well I don't know what to tell you. I'm just as surprised by this as anyone. I can assure you that my garage has so much crap in it that I couldn't fit my car in there if I wanted If I broke this off a huge huck I'd be getting what I deserved (and it would be a much cooler story). I've had this frame for about a year and it's taken a ton of abuse. The fact that it collapsed for no good reason tells me that there was some stress cracks building up that could not be seen from the outside or something along those lines.

    My intent of this post wasn't to bash Titus or to twist any arms for a better resolution. I'm going through the proper channels and things are progressing to my satisfaction so far. I have complete faith that Titus will do me right. I am concerned about how quickly I'll get a resolution but I'm sure they'll work something out. I went through the whole LocoMoto debacle with them a few years back and they always took care of me. The reason I posted was simply to show the carnage. Stuff breaks, it's just a bummer it happened to me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayDrinker
    I'm no expert, and don't claim to be but I'll tell you if I was a manufacturer of any thing and I saw pictures repeatedly posted on any public forum before I resolved whatever the situation was I'd tell the poster to piss up a rope.

    Defect or not someone just poured bong water in my kool-aid and took the least proffessional or cordial approach to getting resolution.
    Just my 2 cents, and that aint worth nothing.
    Honestly, I totally agree with this. Regardless of brand or why the bike broke, not posting snuff pics on the web is sort of "doing a favor" to the MFG, which they might consider when it comes time to make a decision about free frame vs. crash replacement or even no dice.

    That's just my opinion, having worked in the bike industry for a few years when I was younger.

    Another thought: I ride with lots of guys who do 8'+er's on giant reigns, and a few that go 12'+ on nomads with 5" forks, all with no problems. My motolite has seen over a year of constant abuse and is going strong. But, everything up here has a tranny, and none of these guys are heavier dudes. Heavier guys and drops to flat put a lot of stress on bikes, and that blurs the lines around intended use and warranty. I look at stuff in the SW (Like the porcupine rim drop that broke that switchblade) and shake my head- thats bike abuse.

    Woodyak, I have no reason to believe you aren't a smooth rider or a light guy. Defective workmanship is always a possibility, even on high-end frames. Just putting my thoughts out, again my opinions are based on having worked for a shop that made frames, and yeah sometimes the light ones broke.

  12. #12
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    Hey Woodyak, didn't your AM1 snap a few months back? Might be realted. Just a thought.

  13. #13
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    The fracture right across the gusset is incredible.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by orthorex
    Hey Woodyak, didn't your AM1 snap a few months back? Might be realted. Just a thought.
    Yeah, it did. I also broke a seatstay on that frame.I've been playing with the suspension trying to make sure that's not bottoming out. The funny thing is that I'm not busting tubes or bending rims. If I was real abusive you'd think that'd be the first sign.

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    I get the point of the post I just hate seeing the forums blasted with good products looking like nuclear fall-out. I realize there are a lot of positive posts of builds and documented rides with all the glamour shots. But, this is one of those JRA's stories that will go down in shop folklore. A five inch travel trail bike sending you to the ground while cruising along.
    I hope it all works out, I saw somewhere that someone built a 29lb Supermoto, this is one maybe that will hold up better than the Locomoto's and recently departed Motolite.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Honestly, I totally agree with this. Regardless of brand or why the bike broke, not posting snuff pics on the web is sort of "doing a favor" to the MFG, which they might consider when it comes time to make a decision about free frame vs. crash replacement or even no dice.
    I see your point. I probably should've waited at least until I got resolution. Again I'm not trying to smear Titus what so ever here.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    Honestly, I totally agree with this. Regardless of brand or why the bike broke, not posting snuff pics on the web is sort of "doing a favor" to the MFG, which they might consider when it comes time to make a decision about free frame vs. crash replacement or even no dice.

    :
    I was thinking the same thing. Why post a pic when it is easier just to call Titus.

  18. #18
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    I hear you. I probably should have at least waited for resolution so that I had something positive to say when I posted the pics. I'm not familiar with the JRA story.

    I'm going to ask about going for the El Guapo. I think the SM would be a bit too much for me. I couldn't imagine trying to work one of those in a 24hour race. I had a Quasi before the ML and I'm kicking myself that I didn't stick with it.

  19. #19
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    I've asked the moderator to pull the pics for me. It was inappropriate of me to post them.

  20. #20
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    Wow. A ML with a snapped seat stay, sheared off head tube, AND an AM1 broken in half. All within a couple months. Crazy.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by orthorex
    Wow! A ML with a snapped seat stay, sheared off head tube, AND an AM1 broken in half. All within a couple months. Crazy.
    I know. I wish my riding was as impressive as my breakage. I break stuff all the time but nothing like this. Last year I couldn't keep a Der. Hangar straight or my drivetrain running. This year it's the major crap.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I've asked the moderator to pull the pics for me. It was inappropriate of me to post them.
    Thats a nice gesture of you.

    I think it's a courtesy thing, not a real big deal.... but good on you.

    I may be shopping as well. I LOVED the motolite on my vacation, but here at home, we have lost 2-3 of my favorite XC rides to storm damage last winter, plus the local trails we helped build are definitely 6"+ bike terrain. Things have changed since I bought the motolite....

    I have to say, if Titus oiffered you a guapo, even a a really good deal, I think that would be good service of them. Years ago I had a similar situation with santa cruz, I kept breaking superlights (this was like 2002?) but they wouldn't trade me into a heckler even when I offered to pay wholesale cost. Weird!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I know. I wish my riding was as impressive as my breakage. I break stuff all the time but nothing like this. Last year I couldn't keep a Der. Hangar straight or my drivetrain running. This year it's the major crap.
    Aluminium has a long memory, it is not forgiving. My first thought is that the event that snapped the fork, fatally damaged the frame.

  24. #24
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    It's the right thing to do. They've always treated me right and I could see how my post could be taken out of context.

    Yeah, I'm leaning towards the EG at this point. I really love how fast and nimble the ML is but I just break stuff too easily. I'm just hoping the wait won't be ridiculous. You can only put so many miles on the road before the voices start getting to you

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by orthorex
    Aluminium has a long memory, it is not forgiving. My first thought is that the event that snapped the fork, fatally damaged the frame.
    Hadn't thought of that. That could easily be it.

  26. #26
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    I don't see what the big deal is with posting a pic of a busted frame - it's not like he said "Look what my P.O.S. Titus did to me", or "WARNING - beware of the MotoLite", etc. along with the pic. I enjoy carnage - like car crashes - I don't "hope" they happen but I sure as hell want to see it when it does! Put the pic back up.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wddamf
    I don't see what the big deal is with posting a pic of a busted frame - it's not like he said "Look what my P.O.S. Titus did to me", or "WARNING - beware of the MotoLite", etc. along with the pic. I enjoy carnage - like car crashes - I don't "hope" they happen but I sure as hell want to see it when it does! Put the pic back up.
    Just go to his user gallery.

    I'm sure many have saved the pic anyhow. I do agree that it's only proper to go to the company first, then post about your good/bad resolution.

  28. #28
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    PS, is you frame a small or an Xsmall??? do they(the smalls) have smaller diameter tubes then the med and large?

    that frame snap is specaticular. wow!!!!! the tubbing isn't deformed like you would expect if it was from a single catistrophic event. its just snapped.

    dude you put the hurt on that bike. snap the fork, the seat stay and the head tube with in a few weeks.

    you need a huck bike!!!!

  29. #29
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    Am I next??

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I was riding along doing a fairly mellow ride when all of a sudden Wham! my top tube sheers right off. No drops, no big hits, nothing crazy at all. Hopefully Hammerhead/Titus will pull through for me again. I'm waiting to hear back.

    I have a bunch of rides that are coming up soon too, aaaargh!.
    I just snapped my ML seat-stay last week. Oh dear

    Regards,

    EndUser
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    sorry woodyak

    one of the coolest fractures i've seen

    you just need a good old 4130 steel Canfield Balance.... what's an extra 6 pounds

    can i have your AM lowers

  31. #31
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    That sucks!!! I've still been riding my 20 milers the last couple weeks, but the susp on my bike feels so $hity due to my Marz fork that I can't bring myself to send "back" in for another month, that I've been primarily spending all my time at the BMX track hitting DJ's and the sweet little drops around there. I've been getting some pretty good air too, and come down hard a couple times. everything feels solid as could be so far though.

    The fork really sucks! I've figured out that, that's what was giving me such a hard time setting up the DHX coil. About the only thing it still feels pretty good at is hitten $hit.... hey it's a Zoke.

  32. #32
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    What a bunch of whining. This is MTBR for the love of Billy! Pictures of broken frames should be posted and loved and cherished and discussed. They are beacons. They are crucibles. We ride the bikes, and the bozos build them. We have no loyalties to them! They prosper, and we test to destruction.

    Banish them into their hovels instead of bending at the waist to take a shovel. Expose the possibilities and let the goldfish suck the flesh from their ripe bones.

    We are the kings.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Colossus
    What a bunch of whining. This is MTBR for the love of Billy! Pictures of broken frames should be posted and loved and cherished and discussed. They are beacons. They are crucibles. We ride the bikes, and the bozos build them. We have no loyalties to them! They prosper, and we test to destruction.

    Banish them into their hovels instead of bending at the waist to take a shovel. Expose the possibilities and let the goldfish suck the flesh from their ripe bones.

    We are the kings.
    We are the world.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    That sucks!!! I've still been riding my 20 milers the last couple weeks, but the susp on my bike feels so $hity due to my Marz fork that I can't bring myself to send "back" in for another month, that I've been primarily spending all my time at the BMX track hitting DJ's and the sweet little drops around there. I've been getting some pretty good air too, and come down hard a couple times. everything feels solid as could be so far though.

    The fork really sucks! I've figured out that, that's what was giving me such a hard time setting up the DHX coil. About the only thing it still feels pretty good at is hitten $hit.... hey it's a Zoke.
    Buy a Z1 RC2 while you still can. Marz looks like it's moving backward for a couple years.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    sorry woodyak

    one of the coolest fractures i've seen

    you just need a good old 4130 steel Canfield Balance.... what's an extra 6 pounds

    can i have your AM lowers
    Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool looking as well.

    No, you can't have them. Marz wouldn't send them back to me. I asked for them back but they said no

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Buy a Z1 RC2 while you still can. Marz looks like it's moving backward for a couple years.
    Yeah I know. You've been slowly convincing me for weeks.

    Next thing you know it'll be too late.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool looking as well.

    No, you can't have them. Marz wouldn't send them back to me. I asked for them back but they said no
    Sorry... I meant the ones on your ML "2"

    Glad you weren't seriously injured.... things could have been far worse.

  38. #38
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    don't go snapping your head tube off at me

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    PS, is you frame a small or an Xsmall??? do they(the smalls) have smaller diameter tubes then the med and large?

    that frame snap is specaticular. wow!!!!! the tubbing isn't deformed like you would expect if it was from a single catistrophic event. its just snapped.

    dude you put the hurt on that bike. snap the fork, the seat stay and the head tube with in a few weeks.

    you need a huck bike!!!!
    It's an XS. I think the tubing is the same size. It didn't look any smaller than a medium frame that I saw on the trails.

    It had to be some sort of stress fracture that was just waiting for the right time. I remember the bump that snapped it. It was like a 2 inch rounded rock hit at slow medium speed. I wasn't even looking at the rock when it happened. When I rode it on Sunday I hit a couple of 2 to 3' drops but it never bottomed out.

    Some of my trails are pretty brutal. I love taking the XC geeks there. They always b*tch and moan and then they fall

    I used to have a Quasi. Now that was a solid frame. I wasn't thrilled with the geometry but it was pretty damn' tough. I'm going to see if they'll work a deal for the El Guapo. That should be strong enough for me.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    I used to have a Quasi. Now that was a solid frame. I wasn't thrilled with the geometry but it was pretty damn' tough. I'm going to see if they'll work a deal for the El Guapo. That should be strong enough for me.
    maybe time to step up to a Ti motolite. life time warranty...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    don't go snapping your head tube off at me
    that's oddly familiar

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    glad you're not dead Woody! that could have been very bad. you should go to the race track asap!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Yeah I know. You've been slowly convincing me for weeks.

    Next thing you know it'll be too late.
    I got lucky because I hunted around and kept losing auctions on ebay for a couple months and then I found one with black lowers in the classifieds section here. I was very lucky because I don't think I've seen one since, other than new ones being sold for $775. I even covered the entire cost by selling my AM1

    If I were you, the last of them is the Anniversary Z1. To be honest, the ride you're looking for in the AM is what the Z1 offers, but with better reliability, performance, and simplicity. Get the Z1, then throw the TAS/ETA cart in there if it fits and you need it, or just ride the hell out of it.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    It's an XS. I think the tubing is the same size. It didn't look any smaller than a medium frame that I saw on the trails.
    Nope, the tubing on the XS is definitely smaller than the Med. I own a Med and my wife has an XS. You can tell the difference immediately.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I got lucky because I hunted around and kept losing auctions on ebay for a couple months and then I found one with black lowers in the classifieds section here. I was very lucky because I don't think I've seen one since, other than new ones being sold for $775. I even covered the entire cost by selling my AM1
    06 Z1 FR SL $499 at wheelworld.... a few days ago it was $399 with 20% off


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    If I were you, the last of them is the Anniversary Z1. To be honest, the ride you're looking for in the AM is what the Z1 offers, but with better reliability, performance, and simplicity. Get the Z1, then throw the TAS/ETA cart in there if it fits and you need it, or just ride the hell out of it.
    The Z1 Anniversary already has ETA and why would you pull out RC2 for TST ?~?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    06 Z1 FR SL $499 at wheelworld.... a few days ago it was $399 with 20% off




    The Z1 Anniversary already has ETA and why would you pull out RC2 for TST ?~?
    I never said that. I said put the TAS/ETA cart in the Z1 if he wants travel adjust to replace the plain ETA cart. If not, then ride the hell out of the Z1.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I never said that. I said put the TAS/ETA cart in the Z1 if he wants travel adjust to replace the plain ETA cart. If not, then ride the hell out of the Z1.
    ooops i got TAS and TST confused

    that's a good idea.... Blackie should have a TAS/ETA from his 05 ZAM1

    the 06 Z1 FR SL sounds like a better purchase for him though ?~?

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    Not a fan of the air. The fork just feels perfect as-is with the coil/air setup.

    The Z1 Light is loaded with tuning options, but at the same time, it's brutally simple and well performing.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yolden Gears
    Nope, the tubing on the XS is definitely smaller than the Med. I own a Med and my wife has an XS. You can tell the difference immediately.
    yeah thats what I was thinking, the XS are built for hot chicks.... tell us more about your wife.

  50. #50
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    He emailed me today the details and the pics
    I am talking with Titus and they want to take care of the customer as do I

    I'll be direct, it appears to me that he is probably exceeding the intended design of the components from the amount of things he seems to break
    the fork failure is a red flag here and absolutely could have introduced a stress to the headtube junction
    I have never seen a Titus with a sheared headtube in 8 years of dealing with them....

    This is getting into gray area on what consitutes "abuse" vs "manufacturing defect"
    Not what some of you may want to hear but it's the honest and direct truth.

    I am however confident we will come up with a workable solution for him...
    Please let us work it out professionaly without a bunch of unneeded drama

    Sincerely

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I never said that. I said put the TAS/ETA cart in the Z1 if he wants travel adjust to replace the plain ETA cart. .

    That would be the absolute SHIZZNIT!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerheadbikes
    This is getting into gray area on what consitutes "abuse" vs "manufacturing defect"
    Not what some of you may want to hear but it's the honest and direct truth.
    I think that is what some think, and at least that many want to hear.

    I remember the post about the AM1 bridge snapping in half. That was peculiar to say the least.

    WY is darnn lucky to be posting with that kind of blowout, no matter when or why it happened.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    That would be the absolute SHIZZNIT!!!
    Send me your whitie, cobber

    I'm can use that stallion before you turn it into a gelding

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammerheadbikes
    He emailed me today the details and the pics
    I am talking with Titus and they want to take care of the customer as do I

    I'll be direct, it appears to me that he is probably exceeding the intended design of the components from the amount of things he seems to break
    the fork failure is a red flag here and absolutely could have introduced a stress to the headtube junction
    I have never seen a Titus with a sheared headtube in 8 years of dealing with them....

    This is getting into gray area on what consitutes "abuse" vs "manufacturing defect"
    Not what some of you may want to hear but it's the honest and direct truth.

    I am however confident we will come up with a workable solution for him...
    Please let us work it out professionaly without a bunch of unneeded drama

    Sincerely
    Don't worry woody titus_jeff will save you.

  55. #55
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    Sounds like he needs to buy a Foes....
    Dug-da-Goat

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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    Sounds like he needs to buy a Foes....

    Yeah! and instead of a replacement, he can waite 3 months for them to weld it back together.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    yeah thats what I was thinking, the XS are built for hot chicks.... tell us more about your wife.
    yeah... another photo would be appreciated

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    Sounds like he needs to buy a Foes....
    you had to bring up the only frame I ever witness snap in half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    you had to bring up the only frame I ever witness snap in half.
    If you look at the fracture the tensile zone of the head tube connection failed in the heat affect zone of the weld (at the bottom). I can confirm the head tube was snapped off, but the frame was not technically snapped in half.

    His has not broke his carbon bars even after annihilated the fork and then the frame.
    Therefore by this intensive testing study carbon bars are thus safe and I can get one now.

  60. #60
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    You're right Blacky....Brent does take his time with stuff. Still waiting on the Air Shock...

    However, I've never had or heard of a frame break on a Foes....I'm sure it happens, happens to all of 'em....but just compare the head tube gussets between the XCT 5 and the Motolite. Brent doesn't want warrenty issues to come back and haunt him. Yeah, you're probably carrying an extra pound compared to the ML...but pound for pound, I know which bike will take the lickin'
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  61. #61
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    AM....you kill me.. ..here's your trophy again.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    AM....you kill me.. ..here's your trophy again.
    this one still shows too much black just like the last one....

  63. #63
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    Oh comon AM....Canadian Girls rock no matter what their wearing...
    Dug-da-Goat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    Oh comon AM....Canadian Girls rock no matter what their wearing...
    Are you sure ?~?


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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    I can confirm the head tube was snapped off, but the frame was not technically snapped in half..
    I was talking about a 2 year old foes FXR, it snapped near the bottom bracket on a 3foot drop to flat. it snapped in half. it was the biggest drop the owner had ever done. and yes it started at the edge of the weld.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    I was talking about a 2 year old foes FXR, it snapped near the bottom bracket on a 3foot drop to flat. it snapped in half. it was the biggest drop the owner had ever done. and yes it started at the edge of the weld.

    and I've heard of other Foes breaking. I remember because what I was reading led me to believe they just weld them back as opposed to a warrenty replacement. Sounds ugly, but whatever.

  67. #67
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    Hey...back in the day, she was a killer...
    Dug-da-Goat

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  68. #68
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    I'm sure your right...like I said, they all break given some people's huevos...but seriously, the gusseting on the ML at the Head Tube is minimal, so if Woody was throwing any type of hucks with it, that's where it will go. Brent factors that crap in and yeah his frames are on the heavy side....

    That being said, did you check out the XCT Review in MBA along with the El Guapo? It was the 4" Air but based on what they had to say there it sounds like the 5" version should be pretty sweet.
    Dug-da-Goat

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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropin%Dug
    I'm sure your right...like I said, they all break given some people's huevos...but seriously, the gusseting on the ML at the Head Tube is minimal, so if Woody was throwing any type of hucks with it, that's where it will go. Brent factors that crap in and yeah his frames are on the heavy side....

    That being said, did you check out the XCT Review in MBA along witht he El Guapo? It was the 4" Air but based on what they had to say there it sounds like the 5" version should be pretty sweet.

    I disagree. As Charles said he's never heard of, or seen a Titus break at the head tube, and looking at mine I couldn't imagen it. There are quit a few people push some limits with this bike, on this board, and any kind of breakages have been minimal.


    As far as the XCT goes I'll take the "very pedal freindly big hit trail bike FXR" over an over built XC bike any day! And I'm no hater, the FXR is on my top three all time dream bike list.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    ...

    As far as the XCT goes I'll take the "very pedal freindly big hit trail bike FXR" over an over built XC bike any day! And I'm no hater, the FXR is on my top three all time dream bike list.

    FXR must be a good bike.

    What exactly is on your list ?~?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    FXR must be a good bike.

    What exactly is on your list ?~?

    I'll never tell.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I'll never tell.
    I'd like a Super Moto and an Exogrid Moto Lite

    I guess a Ti Guapo could do it all for me.... Exo would make me happy....

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    I'd like a Super Moto and an Exogrid Moto Lite

    I guess a Ti Guapo could do it all for me.... Exo would make me happy....

    That about covers it for me.

  74. #74
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    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    This reminds me never to buy a bike from you
    Huh???

    Dealer shows up, says he is working to take care of it. Explains that there are limits to everything, which many of us also realize.

    He's up front, posts on the board, and is honest in the assessment.

    I dont' know, I'm thinking that is all someone can ask for initially. Then again, I've bought 4 frames from Charles, and had friends and family buy 4 others. Titus, Ventana, Intense.

    No problems thus far, and yes, I've had a few issues Charles helped work though.

    You know, it's funny. I've seen many people complain about companies and shops regarding warranties. I've broken my fair share of things over the past 20 years of riding.

    With only 2 exceptions (Ellsworth and Ringle), every company has bent over backwards to find a REASONABLE solution.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    yeah thats what I was thinking, the XS are built for hot chicks.... tell us more about your wife.

  76. #76
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    Howdy Jolly....I think AM was alluding to the fact that he'll never buy a USED bike from Woody.....I think I can see his point.
    Dug-da-Goat

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  77. #77
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    Rest assured I am going to bat for Woodyak
    I want him to be taken care of . . .

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    I was talking about a 2 year old foes FXR, it snapped near the bottom bracket on a 3foot drop to flat. it snapped in half. it was the biggest drop the owner had ever done. and yes it started at the edge of the weld.
    My buddy has a Foes Fly. Broke his frame last year at Whistler. Funny thing is...the bike shop where he bought it had two others (that makes three) break in the same spot on the same day...yes, all at Whistler.

    They now have added a gusset to the area as a fix.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I disagree. As Charles said he's never heard of, or seen a Titus break at the head tube
    Not accounting the SAPA's Locomotos (those were clearly SAPA's fault and reason why Titus moved off from SAPA), there were only a few SB's... I can remember two. The one that broke in a million pieces and other that's posted here somewhere. But both of them broke after the gusset.

    But I have to agree that it's an atypical failure for a Titus. You can really goo all over this board and count with your fingers the broken frames at the HT and still play classical guitar.

    I agree with AM's that it broke in the HAZ, cleanly... But also, those XS frames are indeed made for small, lighter riders and they indeed use different tubing.

    Let's leave the parties do their stuff and get it solved. Not long ago, someone else just gave props to Hammerhead for solving some breakage, so I'm lead to believe Woody will get taken care of.
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  80. #80
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    One of the most telling parts of the failure is the fracture through the gusset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    One of the most telling parts of the failure is the fracture through the gusset.

    I am a little slow (and stupid) but what does this mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    I am a little slow (and stupid) but what does this mean?
    Same here.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yolden Gears
    Same here.

    The frame was likely set on fire!

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    The frame was likely set on fire!
    or too stiff of a fork on a light weight frame.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    or too stiff of a fork on a light weight frame.
    If you exceed 145mm travel with a 20mm, the frame will spontaneously combust!

    Mine almost did last night- I was bottoming my fork out, and the front brake hose was buzzing on my front tire.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    or too stiff of a fork on a light weight frame.
    Yes, Marzocchi forks are far stiffer and superior to Fox.... you are correct

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    One of the most telling parts of the failure is the fracture through the gusset.
    It does assist in determining a brittle fracture occurred, however the fracture started from the bottom half of the joint in the area of the joint in tension. The little gusset at the top was in compression and was the last part to fracture.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    The frame was likely set on fire!


    woodyak is a repeat offender I bet he used an accelerant

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand
    I am a little slow (and stupid) but what does this mean?

    Nearly all frame failures are at a weld junction, due to a stress riser. In welding (I have been trained in welding myself and own my own MIG welder), a properly produced weld is actually stronger than the surrounding metal, thus the formation of cracks on the edges of a weld. That's no question.

    With gussets, they have to coincide with the butting of the tube they are applied to. There's another brand on this board that had cracked downtubes at the edge of the gusset. The gusset created a very strong and reinforced section, then a severely weak section where it ended. I am speculating that the proper method of gusseting was not followed, meaning the butting into thinner tubing began before the edge of the gusset, so the trailing edge of said gusset was on super thin tubing. In other words, a gusset's trailing edge should end on the thicker part of the tubing. If it ends on the thinner, less load bearing portions, the tube will break right there.

    I'm not saying it's impossible to fracture a gusset, but it's telling of the violence of the force that led to the eventual demise of this frame because not only is a gusset there, but supposed to be thick, loading-bearing sections of the tubes. The path of least resistance in a gradual failure is at the end of a gusset, or at the head tube. This was across the gusset, which leads me to believe there was an extremely violent sudden failure that took the path in an odd plane (lots of shock load in a short time, aka Impulse), or severe damage along the same lines in a previous event that sealed the fate of the frame.

    In my opinion, just from looking at it, this was an issue of severe abuse or a severe mishap. I would have to take a look at the butting myself and the rest is up to Titus, but the failure across the gusset is an extremely telling part of what really happened to this frame.

  90. #90
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    I'm no engineer (and I don't even play one on MTBR) so I can only guess. Based on history of failure, I would guess that the rider was using his frame beyond one would consider normal use for the frame. That being said, Titus will probably offer some compromise to make everybody happy. If it's an XS frame, that'll be hard because I don't think that the EG comes in XS, and the rider clearly needs something beefier, maybe a SuperMoto?
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    It does assist in determining a brittle fracture occurred, however the fracture started from the bottom half of the joint in the area of the joint in tension. The little gusset at the top was in compression and was the last part to fracture.
    I took another look at the damage and I think AM is correct here. The bottom half split around the gusset and the top half split through the gusset. The top part is actually peeled up a bit showing that the top gusset was trying hold while the bottom was cracked.

    My opinion is that this occured over time. I don't recall any major hits, you know the ones where you get off your bike and take inventory of your bike parts and body parts. I did that on my Quasi once. I also think the fact that it's an XS doesn't help matters either. I was unaware that the pipes where smaller on the XS.

    Now as far as abuse goes how is that defined? What is the intent of this frame? To me it's advertised as an All Mountain bike that can take a decent amount of abuse but is also light and nimble enough for XC type riding. To me it's supposed to match up toe to toe with the 5 spot, Blur, Heckler, Stumpjumper, etc. Well this is what my buddy's ride. We do the same trails, we do the same stunts, avoid the same drops, yada yada. Do they break stuff? Sure they do, but nothing like this. When I chose to go to the ML from the Quasi I did so because I wanted to ride faster and do less of the hardcore/scary stuff and that's what I've done. I looked at what my buddies where riding and according to everything I've read about the ML it was perfect match for what we are doing.

    Think about it. If I were into hucking and downhilling why would I sell my Quasi, which was insanely strong, at a loss and take a chance on the ML surviving a major thrashing? Heck, the ML is kind of a harsh downhiller on mild terrain and I knew that was probably the case when I bought it.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    I'm no engineer (and I don't even play one on MTBR) so I can only guess. Based on history of failure, I would guess that the rider was using his frame beyond one would consider normal use for the frame. That being said, Titus will probably offer some compromise to make everybody happy. If it's an XS frame, that'll be hard because I don't think that the EG comes in XS, and the rider clearly needs something beefier, maybe a SuperMoto?
    Yeah, but what defines normal use? I'm riding alongside Stumpjumpers and Superlights and they're doing the same stuff that I do. I'm not hucking or downhilling.

    The only way I can explain my breakage history is that I ride a lot. 4 to 5 days a week all year round in all conditions. 90% of it is "All Mountain" type riding that's on the harsh side 10% being XC.

    I'm hoping Titus hooks me up here. I know my breakage history makes me look like I'm Bender or something but that's simply not the case.
    Last edited by woodyak; 06-01-2007 at 04:31 AM.

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    You might want to just keep your mouth shut at this point.

    Seriously.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Yes, Marzocchi forks are far stiffer and superior to Fox.... you are correct
    you guys crack me up. you had this whole thread about how you guys decided that a heavy 5 pound stiff marz fork was OK. but the 36 was way too much. a lighter duty 4 pound pike or rev or a fox 32 is far more appropriate for the ML. thats fine, just my opinion.


    AM,
    and in regards to the top tube being in compression and the down tube in tension. thats a fine model for a drop to flat. but not for lets say,,,running into a tree. (not saying anyone ran into a tree) this would include any other impact or component of force that would flex the fork back. it would be the opposite of your model. ie compression at the down tube. and I agree with you that it broke at the down tube..... and this just my take, if I was doing the FA... that type of brake near the weld happens in compression. too much fork plus skinny Xsmall tubes = broke frame over time.

    I still believe that Titus_Jeff will rectify the situation beyond woody's expectation.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    you guys crack me up. you had this whole thread about how you guys decided that a heavy 5 pound stiff marz fork was OK. but the 36 was way too much. a lighter duty 4 pound pike or rev or a fox 32 is far more appropriate for the ML. thats fine, just my opinion.


    AM,
    and in regards to the top tube being in compression and the down tube in tension. thats a fine model for a drop to flat. but not for lets say,,,running into a tree. (not saying anyone ran into a tree) this would include any other impact or component of force that would flex the fork back. it would be the opposite of your model. ie compression at the down tube. and I agree with you that it broke at the down tube..... and this just my take, if I was doing the FA... that type of brake near the weld happens in compression. too much fork plus skinny Xsmall tubes = broke frame over time.

    I still believe that Titus_Jeff will rectify the situation beyond woody's expectation.

    No doubt Titus will deliver even with the scare mongers in attendance.

    I tried a Revelation but it just felt short and perhaps not the stiffest for me and my terrain. I thought going up 10mm to a Pike was not going to make much of a difference (to height). I compromised and went with a tall fork where I could limit travel to 140 or 145mm and still be tall. Nothing else existed for a legitimate Moto Lite fork. I would have bought an EG if they were available at the time. I am just a rider who prefers at 68 HA on the trail... no different than riders who prefer 71 HA on the trail. Unfortunately I happen to ride riding a 5" bike and current marketing means 5" must equal 69 HA. I would like to try the Specialized DC fork on my Moto Lite... it's light.

  96. #96
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    AM....You TOTALLY crack me up....

    Here's a good write up on Brent...I like at the end where he says his problem is that he makes things the best he can and then worries about whether there's any profit in it.

    http://www.foesracing.com/assets/img...bikejuly07.jpg

    Woody....if Hammerhead doesn't take care of ya....GET A FOES!!!!
    Dug-da-Goat

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    No doubt Titus will deliver even with the scare mongers in attendance.
    all good all mountain.

  98. #98
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    I looked up the photo, seems like a pretty clean snap which to me would say it's a sudden occurrence - even still you'd think there was some warning, but then again not everyone is that observant. But yeah the picture of the broken fork arch is out of the ordernary as well.

    I reckon things like that can happen but you must be one unlucky bloke. And you have a good point, how on earth do you destroy frames and forks without destroying your wheels!

    Interested in the outcome - I reckon you should get a tougher frame!

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    That's where Energetix went ....

    became a hermit for a while and now 100 mile an hour tape !~!

    Are you still on the Trance with a bashie ?~?



    Quote Originally Posted by ducktape
    I looked up the photo, seems like a pretty clean snap which to me would say it's a sudden occurrence - even still you'd think there was some warning, but then again not everyone is that observant. But yeah the picture of the broken fork arch is out of the ordernary as well.

    I reckon things like that can happen but you must be one unlucky bloke. And you have a good point, how on earth do you destroy frames and forks without destroying your wheels!

    Interested in the outcome - I reckon you should get a tougher frame!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Titus which is a cut above what the entire market has to offer
    Three years ago this would be true, not now.

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