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  1. #1
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    Shallow counterbore for upper headset cup on an El Guapo?

    Hey guys, I just received my EG, and checking it out [ Ihave the tapered headtube] the depth of the upper counterbore for the headset cup is 5 millimeters deep. My cane creek headset is at least 8 millimeters deep, and forget about how deep the angleset is I bought; it's much longer than that. Is 5mm normal? Did I miss the memo about special headset cups for the EG? The diameters are fine, it's the insertion depths that are amiss.
    FWIW, the lower headset counterbore is bore way overkill in depth, so no issues there.
    Thanks in advance.
    ****

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Hey guys, I just received my EG, and checking it out [ Ihave the tapered headtube] the depth of the upper counterbore for the headset cup is 5 millimeters deep. My cane creek headset is at least 8 millimeters deep, and forget about how deep the angleset is I bought; it's much longer than that. Is 5mm normal? Did I miss the memo about special headset cups for the EG? The diameters are fine, it's the insertion depths that are amiss.
    FWIW, the lower headset counterbore is bore way overkill in depth, so no issues there.
    Thanks in advance.
    Yup, you need to get the top reamed deeper for the Cane Creek headsets. Our On-One Smoothie Mixer fits, but most other HSs are deeper.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Yup, you need to get the top reamed deeper for the Cane Creek headsets. Our On-One Smoothie Mixer fits, but most other HSs are deeper.
    Dang.

    Can one just saw off few mm from the Cane Creek upper cup instead? Should not be critical to weight bearing..

    Or maybe that's an argument to order the slackset..

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Yup, you need to get the top reamed deeper for the Cane Creek headsets. Our On-One Smoothie Mixer fits, but most other HSs are deeper.
    Well that absolutely sucks. That is not, IMO, exactly great planning for being able to use more than one manufacturer's product. So much for the $190.00 I spent on the angleset from CC.
    Shiggy, are there anymore unexpected, unpleasureable surprises you could tell me about regarding my new frameset before I find them out on my own?
    ****

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Well that absolutely sucks. That is not, IMO, exactly great planning for being able to use more than one manufacturer's product. So much for the $190.00 I spent on the angleset from CC.
    Shiggy, are there anymore unexpected, unpleasureable surprises you could tell me about regarding my new frameset before I find them out on my own?
    There was a miscue at the factory. Your LBS can ream the HT in just a few minutes and the angleset fits fine.

    Needs to be reamed for the Slackset, too.

    No other issues.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Needs to be reamed for the Slackset, too.
    FSA Orbit Option T? Upper cup looks shallow there.

    Would have been nice to have it done before shipping, but hard to complain at the current deal.

    Read up on the issue of cable routing that got one person looking for another frame, but frankly, difficult to care much about a cable outside of the shock mounts..

  7. #7
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    Cable routing isnt an issue

    Its a non issue. I too went through the problems with the upper cup but I ended up using the CC 40 lower cup and the smoothie upper. Do you really need a slacker HA? With a 10mm lower cup and a 160mm fork you are looking at about a 67 HA not 68 like the original Titus specs show.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shallow counterbore for upper headset cup on an El Guapo?-p1020709.jpg  

    Shallow counterbore for upper headset cup on an El Guapo?-p1020725.jpg  

    Shallow counterbore for upper headset cup on an El Guapo?-p1020728.jpg  


  8. #8
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    With a 10mm lower cup and a 160mm fork you are looking at about a 67 HA not 68 like the original Titus specs show.
    Hm..

    I really liked 65.7 on my Coiler. But I have no idea how Guapo will feel. I am pretty sure that I would not complain, as it will be built and used somewhat lighter then Coiler was (I was not using it to its potential, part of the reason I am moving on. Other part is that I like new toys.).

    I am thinking of FSA Orbit - and try all three settings it comes with. It is a ZS lower I guess.

    Yeah, I usually do not get a flying eff about where my cables go as long as I do not snag on them and they do not ghost shift..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Do you really need a slacker HA? With a 10mm lower cup and a 160mm fork you are looking at about a 67 HA not 68 like the original Titus specs show.
    Some people prefer a slacker bike. 67 would not be slack enough for me. I'd need a slackset.

    That being said, 15 bucks for a head tube ream seems like a simple (and cheap) solution.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    There was a miscue at the factory. Your LBS can ream the HT in just a few minutes and the angleset fits fine.

    Needs to be reamed for the Slackset, too.

    No other issues.
    I'm just a little leary of handing over my brand new frame to some stranger who could possibly botch the job.
    Craigstr, I know you weren't addressing me. but I'm looking to lower the bike by dropping my lyrik to 150mm, then slacken it with the angleset. I don't want to slacken it by raising it with the outboard lower headset cup.
    ****

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I'm just a little leary of handing over my brand new frame to some stranger who could possibly botch the job.
    Facing and reaming are one of the very few things I can not do myself, and only good shops that do not annoy me and do not overcharge for simple things are a bit of a drive. Nearby ones are all busy changing tires on expensive road bikes, charge $50 to run a chasing tool in bottom bracket for 30 seconds, or insist on leaving frame for several days for no apparent reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Craigstr, I know you weren't addressing me. but I'm looking to lower the bike by dropping my lyrik to 150mm, then slacken it with the angleset. I don't want to slacken it by raising it with the outboard lower headset cup.
    I am rather set to try this new FSA Option T. Comes with 0.5, 1.0 and 1.5 cups and 3.5mm lower stack. Seems lighter and simpler then angleset - at the price of non standard bearings. But bearings usually last for me.

  12. #12
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    It surprises me that people want to lower the BB on the Guapo. I run 170mm cranks with a Float 36 and I am smacking things all the time but I do live in an area where there are a lot of things to hit. I am building up an EG for a friend with a 150mm Revelation, the guy wants more of a trail bike then an AM build, it should be interesting how that works for him around here. As far as reaming the headset, it doesnt bother me to have to do that, Titus made a mistake and they admitted it, it happens, they were in a rush to get final specs to the builder to get something to market. The problem I had is I checked every shop in the Reno-Tahoe area (over 16 shops) and nobody had the correct size cutting bit. The bit costs close to $160 so I understand why they didnt want to purchase one to do my $15 ream job.

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    Craigstr, what's your stock HA w/ the 12mm stack on the CC EC40 and same height tires front and back?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    It surprises me that people want to lower the BB on the Guapo.
    I do not want to lower the BB, but given a choice I do prefer a slacker head angle. As people ride 150mm forks on Guapo (15mm less a2c), I figure it should be tolerable. If not, I am out of a headset..

    Maybe, in the future I will get a 170mm fork; my Wotan, that I will reuse, is getting old.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I do not want to lower the BB, but given a choice I do prefer a slacker head angle. As people ride 150mm forks on Guapo (15mm less a2c), I figure it should be tolerable. If not, I am out of a headset..

    Maybe, in the future I will get a 170mm fork; my Wotan, that I will reuse, is getting old.
    The 2010 had 13.5" BB w. the 68 and large-ish 2.35 Muddy Marys

    I climb a lot of **** on this setup and agree w/ Craigstr, 67 is about perfect

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG View Post
    The 2010 had 13.5" BB w. the 68 and large-ish 2.35 Muddy Marys
    What fork and lower stack? Website lists 13.8, why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    What fork and lower stack? Website lists 13.8, why?
    The external CC w/ taper van rc2. . not sure why, if you're not gonna be hitting rocks, there's a huge boost in performance w/ smaller sized tires that's for sure

    If I put a 2.35 DHF out back, there's about a 1/2" difference in tire height w/ the Muddy Mary in front.
    Last edited by Deerhill; 03-15-2012 at 10:35 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    As far as reaming the headset, it doesnt bother me to have to do that, Titus made a mistake and they admitted it, it happens, they were in a rush to get final specs to the builder to get something to market. The problem I had is I checked every shop in the Reno-Tahoe area (over 16 shops) and nobody had the correct size cutting bit. The bit costs close to $160 so I understand why they didnt want to purchase one to do my $15 ream job.

    It may not have bothered you, for various reasons, but you've summed up the frustrating part of this many of us were/are faced with well: very few bike shops have the relatively new sized cutter head to perform the ream job, and some of us who missed the memo that never went out had already invested in good headsets that never had chance of fitting the frame right out of the box.

    With all due respect, you and Shiggy keep responding to this by shrugging it off like it's no big deal. Yes, in the larger scheme of things, it is no big deal, if you go and buy the tool or plan on using the same single headset that fits. But if it's no big deal to Titus, then instead of sending the frames out to us like this and waiting until the s**t hit the fan before admitting their mistake, wouldn't it have been a wiser business decision to simply invest in $500 worth of tooling themselves and perform the $15 ream job there in Portland? Had they done so, their mistake would have been followed up by them doing the right thing, and more people would be proudly riding a Titus right now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betarad View Post
    But if it's no big deal to Titus, then instead of sending the frames out to us like this and waiting until the s**t hit the fan before admitting their mistake, wouldn't it have been a wiser business decision to simply invest in $500 worth of tooling themselves and perform the $15 ream job there in Portland?
    Yes, that's what they should have done. Should not have taken them too long. I will cut them some slack for now - in general Planet X has a very decent reputation, and some corner cutting comes with the territory. Saving up to a thousand from a comparable frame is worth some hiccups (for me, but then this would be my sixth bike, fourth in line to ride on any given day).

    From my recently purchased frames, TransAm had some unbelievable amount of gunk from corrosion treatment in bottom bracket, and its paint chips and ISCG tabs are a bit off. Motobecane Fly Ti required BB facing to fit e.13 crankset (expensive job, as nobody wants to use their tool on titanium.) Kona had to be chased. Rotwild was absolutely perfect. Damn Germans.

  20. #20
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    66.2

    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG View Post
    Craigstr, what's your stock HA w/ the 12mm stack on the CC EC40 and same height tires front and back?
    As it sits with a 2.2 MK2 and 2.4 MK2 measured with an Android App. I asked Brant to run the numbers with his cad program with the Float 36 and CC EC40 and he came up with 66.7. Interesting enough the BB height is 13.25.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    There was a miscue at the factory. Your LBS can ream the HT in just a few minutes and the angleset fits fine.

    Needs to be reamed for the Slackset, too.

    No other issues.
    So if I had the Slackset installed at Titus, the headtube is now reamed correcly for all headsets?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Interesting enough the BB height is 13.25.
    Huh? That's kinda really low.. I was expecting something around my Coiler numbers, closer to 13.7... Hm.. The joy of relying on da interwebz numbers..

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Huh? That's kinda really low.. I was expecting something around my Coiler numbers, closer to 13.7... Hm.. The joy of relying on da interwebz numbers..
    We would have to know the volume and tread height for the 2.2 MK2 and 2.4 MK2. Honestly I was expecting it to be a hair lower with the new HT, BB sounds the same to me just looking at those tires. Would really like to ride that thing!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    As it sits with a 2.2 MK2 and 2.4 MK2 measured with an Android App. I asked Brant to run the numbers with his cad program with the Float 36 and CC EC40 and he came up with 66.7. Interesting enough the BB height is 13.25.
    When you gonna ride it?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    So if I had the Slackset installed at Titus, the headtube is now reamed correcly for all headsets?
    Yes.
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