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  1. #1
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    RX vs. yeti asr sl, convince me!

    I am hoping to make the leap to fs for next season. I am a 35 yo. expert xc racer in the north east(5'7, 153#). The courses here are root and rock fests, and often muddy, and I've been having some lower back issues for the last couple of years, so it is time. I will enjoy the travel, and being able to ride drops that might have been too much for a 23# hardtail, but this is going to be a fast bike, hopefully around 24# or less. I was looking at the yeti asr sl, as it is light and well liked, but it is expensive. The RX is just a little hevier and costs about $500 less. Both bikes are long and low, which is what i want. Does anyone have any comparitive feedback on these frames? I would love to save the cash if It won't cost me any climbing speed. You are the titus cultists. Convince me!

  2. #2
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    I do the trails around upstate NY and I'm familiar with the terrain. What courses do you run and have you previously run a bike up there with steep head angles?

  3. #3
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    Let me 1st start by saying they are both GREAT bikes. And you should test ride before making your decision.

    But...here's a story, not a comparison that made me think of you when I read your post.

    Good luck!

  4. #4
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    For me, the Racer X is perfect for Northeast terrain and conditions. The handling is fast and super responsive. The geometry sets you up to hammer through rock gardens and up the steeps. I also like the user-serviceable bushings and bearings; something about the Yeti's carbon pivot points bothers me.

    Go for the Racer-X and save the cash (or put it into lighter parts for the Racer-X).

  5. #5
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    Man, that's one of the toughest calls on industry....

    The Racer-X is like an industry standard, but the Yeti is an equal rival.

    I have a friend who has a ASR-SL, a Spider and a Flux... he would buy again only the Yeti. That's what he chose as his racing weapon.

    I'd say, test ride if possible. Being both so great bikes, the difference will be nuissances.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I do the trails around upstate NY and I'm familiar with the terrain. What courses do you run and have you previously run a bike up there with steep head angles?
    I'm doing most of the H@H series and the overlook race in woodstock. I was going to do the masters races as well, but it just didn't work out. I will try to do both next year. I ride around rosendale, jocky hill, stewart, and where ever there is a race, as well as some other stuff I am not at liberty to admit to( H@H #2). I ride a hardtail with a 71/74 geometry and an 80 mil fork. I'm really looking forward to trying out the 100 fork, but with the same 71 degree front end. I would also like do have a slacker seat angle, as I have a pretty stretched out setup. Both the asr and the RX have the numbers I'm looking for, if I recall correctly.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the feedback. keep it comming! Part of theroblem is that these bikes aren't stocked at many shops, so it is hard to get a test ride, especially the yeti.

  8. #8
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    For Titus, you can try Tom at Yorktown Cycles. He regularly runs demos at Blue Mountain for interested clients. Leap Off in Keane Valley (wherever that is) is listed as a Yeti Dealer. Depending on where you are and how far you want to drive, you can check out NJ, Pa, Ct.

  9. #9
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    Thanks. Yeah, someone was talking about a shop that stocks titus. It might have been yorktown.

  10. #10
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    This is a tough one. For me, it would come down to fit if it was going to be a racer. The Yeti feels a bit more plush while still being stiff and railing around corners. It's at home in really rough stuff, evident by my tailing my buddy's 575 all around the Front Range on the downhills. Call Yeti and see if you can demo one where you are. My feeling is that you will find it just a bit more plush and a bit taller than the Racer X so it will come down to feel. They will climb as well as each other and and go around corners as fast. The Yeti may feel a bit taller in turns but its BB height is either 12.7 or 12.8 so it's still very stable- just feels different than the Racer X. It has a great race pedigree as well. The carbon pivots have never seen a failure on the ASR-SL (have been around 3-4 on the 575) but since the ARS-SL is made in Golden and they make much fewer of those frames, they weld them in-house and QA/Quality control them much tighter. Good to have such choices, huh?

    Good Luck. By the way, my first post here, Titus guys. Greeting from the Tribe. Pricewise, I think they are the same or very close since I have a good hookup with a couple of Yeti dealers who happen to be friends. I'll check back here to see what you decide and of course, pics will be great.

  11. #11
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    My pick is honestly the Yeti for the kind of stuff we ride. On an FS over here, higher BB's is a big plus. Lots of speed gets scrubbed pretty fast everytime the pedals smack a sharp rock.

  12. #12
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    I had to make this decision and it came down to Titus availability and pedigree. The Yeti seems to be a bit harder to find on the trail. Good for bike snobbery factor (I'm guilty) but bad for user feedback and info. The Racer X is a standard and after owning mine for 7 months I know why.

    If I had to pick one weak point it is bottom bracket height as mentioned above. I wouldn't call the racer X plush either but I do use all 4" of travel regularly. I ride in the southeast on rocky rooty stuff so it should be comparable. If I did it agan I'd get the Racer X again but would not be sad if I had to ge the Yeti.

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  13. #13
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    Wow! My ignorance of fs bikes is demonstrated by the fact that I didn't even know what to ask! I never thought about bb height, because on a hardtail, it never moves in relation to the ground. I should check my bb height to see what I'm used to, and compare it with these frames. How much will I be affected by this on the trail? Do I need to be more cautious about bottoming out than I am now on my ht?
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    I don't have bracket bottoming issues but I do have pedal impact more than I did on my hardtail.
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  15. #15
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    Ha!

    I just checked. The bb height on the yeti and RX are identical, according to the mfrs. websites. That "riding on top" feeling of the yeiti isn't because it has a higher bb That certainly pushes me a little in the RX direction.
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  16. #16
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    Well, first thing is the reason I asked about the steep head angle on our terrain is because these two choices you have will steepen waaay more upon compression with 100mm forks than a lower travel hardtail at the same STATIC head angle. When you're running through the rocks, you will see what I mean. Everything will scrub tons of speed off of you with every impact. When you're compressing the front end, the head angle will steepen even further making the rough rock gardens a bit tougher. This is very fatiguing. For the terrain you're doing, I recommend a slightly more relaxed, yet XC front end if you're running 100mm, or go with a fork that will go slightly higher on the fly, like with a Reba 115. Speaking of which, stiffness is a virtue up there.

    Now with the BB height, you have to also understand that the STATIC BB height is going to be higher than a hardtail because there is suspension sag to accomodate, as well as upon full compression. Up there, BB height is another plus because you're gonna smack pedals when you're navigating through the channels of broken rock. Not fun. BB height can give you a lower center of gravity and a more stable feel on turns, but a high BB doesn't always mean you're going to give up a lot. It depends on other design factors.

  17. #17
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    Good job!

    I never thought that having more travel could slow you down more on impact. That is interesting. I'll have to give that a thought. I still think I would end up with the same bikes though, because I need the other numbers, like the long top tube and the stand over clearance. I'm all torso Besides There aren't too many efficient light weight fs racers out there. I don't want a softail, or one of those "sorta" fs racers(cannondale) . I've heard too many comparisons that favoured these bikes over vpp designs, to go that route. The carbon epic is too expensive, and too short(top tube). I could run a slighty stiffer, faster rebounding setup on the front end to minimize the effect somewhat.Please don't tell me I have to buy a roxshocks anything. I just shudder when I think of it.
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  18. #18
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    Not a fan of RS, either, but they are making decent equipment now. Also check out the wheelbase to help you get through the rocks. That's another important one. Don't count the Flux out, either. That was what I used extensively up there. Though not as racy in the head angle, it manages the rocks much better before going into the 5" trailbike realm.

    Notice as companies go up in travel on a particular frame, the headangle becomes slacker. It's because there's a bigger drop as the fork is compressed more and more and imagine how running through rocks and other obstacles would feel with a 73 degree head angle. This is why the more racy 100mm bikes aren't so great in this technical aspect with the obstacles when compared to slightly more relaxed 100mm bikes.

  19. #19
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    Boy, that competitive cyclist ad up there sure is handy!

    I just checked. The flux is too heavy, and the nitrous weight limit is a little scary. Oops! just checked again. The nitrous has the same angles as the others, so it would just be the flux.5.6 pounds is too much for me. I'm used to a hardtail. 5 1/2 inches would feel like a DH bike to me
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  20. #20
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    Gotcha. Any way to get the geo of your present bike and go off that?

  21. #21
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    I rode a new ASR-Sl with a RP3 and it felt a little lower that mine. It really wasn't but mine had a 5th Element shock which has a different ride characteristic. I prefer the 5th Element for racing but the RP3 made the bike feel lower slung. That bike feels so right to me but let me throw one more into the mix (if I haven't already somewhere)- the new Ventana El Fuego. It has been getting rave reviews from racers and Competitive Cyclist may have a demo they can send you if you decide to consider it. It is light and I think it is probably the stiffest frame in that travel range. If I were to buy another bike that was going to be my FS XC Racer, that's the one I would get. Before getting my X-5, I had no idea what people meant by saying "the stiffness of the bike will blow you away." Well, I do now and the Fuego is one I am dying to try.

    I've said this before but Competive Cyclist has many demo bikes and they are pretty smart about bikes. Call a couple of places like that as well and talk to them. I can hardly wait to see what you end up with. I've been throwing the idea around about a dedicated XC Racer myself. I have three choices. The Racer X and the ASR-SL have been two of the best but that El Fuego is starting to call my name and I keep hearing how fast that frame is even though I can probably score the best deal on the Titus or Yeti. Must resist the urge- running out of room. Good luck with this and remember, you're helping me (and others) out too

  22. #22
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    Also call Yeti. They might be able to arrange for a demo in your area.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    I rode a new ASR-Sl with a RP3 and it felt a little lower that mine. It really wasn't but mine had a 5th Element shock which has a different ride characteristic. I prefer the 5th Element for racing but the RP3 made the bike feel lower slung. That bike feels so right to me but let me throw one more into the mix (if I haven't already somewhere)- the new Ventana El Fuego. It has been getting rave reviews from racers and Competitive Cyclist may have a demo they can send you if you decide to consider it. It is light and I think it is probably the stiffest frame in that travel range. If I were to buy another bike that was going to be my FS XC Racer, that's the one I would get. Before getting my X-5, I had no idea what people meant by saying "the stiffness of the bike will blow you away." Well, I do now and the Fuego is one I am dying to try.

    I've said this before but Competive Cyclist has many demo bikes and they are pretty smart about bikes. Call a couple of places like that as well and talk to them. I can hardly wait to see what you end up with. I've been throwing the idea around about a dedicated XC Racer myself. I have three choices. The Racer X and the ASR-SL have been two of the best but that El Fuego is starting to call my name and I keep hearing how fast that frame is even though I can probably score the best deal on the Titus or Yeti. Must resist the urge- running out of room. Good luck with this and remember, you're helping me (and others) out too

    While the Venntanas are well known for there stiffness Tituses are just as highly regarded in that department. And I'd put the RX up aganst the El fuago anyday, as far as stiffness goes.

    Haveing said that the ASR-SL is the only bike I've seen compared favorably to the RX on any consistant basis...at least compared to other bikes that have gone up aganst it, witch is saying something

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    While the Venntanas are well known for there stiffness Tituses are just as highly regarded in that department. And I'd put the RX up aganst the El fuago anyday, as far as stiffness goes.

    Haveing said that the ASR-SL is the only bike I've seen compared favorably to the RX on any consistant basis...at least compared to other bikes that have gone up aganst it, witch is saying something
    We should wager on that.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    We should wager on that.

    Who would judge it? Or should we go on customer feed back...cause you'd be hard pressed to find a Titus owner that dosen't mention stiffness.

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    What th true measure of stiffness other than ya'lls subjective opinoins? I'd wager the difference is marginal and the fell of the biek from a cockpit standpoint is 100 times more important. I'd still prefer the RX and ASR-SL over the Ventana.
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  27. #27
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    Nice test- this could be it- The AR-SL versus Racer X versus El Fuego.

    The El Fuego is new- not the old one so it has not seen much mag review action. Maybe we should start email some mags. Which are the best ones? Give us a list of a few that do these tests well and some of us can email them.

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    None of the mags do good tests because they're biased towards their advertisers. Guess who's the biggest? Interbike would be a good shot.

  29. #29
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    Very True...

    Quote Originally Posted by Asahi
    What th true measure of stiffness other than ya'lls subjective opinoins? I'd wager the difference is marginal and the fell of the biek from a cockpit standpoint is 100 times more important. I'd still prefer the RX and ASR-SL over the Ventana.

    I agree with everything you just said, Asahi.

    Flyer... Yeah that would be a great shootout! There is no doubt Vent are stiff, but stiffness is also a trademark of Titus. Though the El Fuego may well be stiffer, but if it is, I would say it would have to be by an almost inperseptable margin.

    I wasn't aware there was a "new" El Fuego, interesting...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I agree with everything you just said, Asahi.

    Flyer... Yeah that would be a great shootout! There is no doubt Vent are stiff, but stiffness is also a trademark of Titus. Though the El Fuego may well be stiffer, but if it is, I would say it would have to be by an almost inperseptable margin.

    I wasn't aware there was a "new" El Fuego, interesting...
    what basis are you going under?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    what basis are you going under?

    What basis are you going under??? The Turner board? where they "do" seem to have a larg amount of Ventenna stiffness envy, for some reason?

    Listen Vent are stiff, but are you unaware of the well known stiffness of a Titus??? Are am I just making it up?

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    I am asking about the comparative stiffness to Ventana.

  33. #33
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    I know you are!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I am asking about the comparative stiffness to Ventana.


    Titus has been just as known for "there" stiffness as Ventanna IMHO. Theres no "real" way to measure it, mabye someone who's owned both who I trust would be a good way?

    But Chicken, theres no denying Titus's reputation for stiffness, this can only go by rep, and if this is something you've never heard than I'm sorry.

    I HAVE NO IDEA WITCH IS STIFFER!!!

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    "Their"
    "There's"
    "Which"

    Of course, Titus is known to be stiff compared to manufacturers that put less of a focus on this aspect of design, but there are many others out there known for going way above that level of stiffness.

    Ventana is known for going so far as bucking the trends to produce a stiffer, longer lasting frame while other manufacturers are going the weight weenie route. And Titus is more known for stiff rear ends, rather than the mainframes, BTW.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    "Their"
    "There's"
    "Which"

    Of course, Titus is known to be stiff compared to manufacturers that put less of a focus on this aspect of design, but there are many others out there known for going way above that level of stiffness.

    What did you just say. I'm sorry if my spelling is'nt up to snuff this morneing, but would you please, "at least" try and make an effort to make sense???

    I know this is hard for you, and that you went out of your way to desipher my spelling...and I'm sorry I try'd but theres no desiphering you incoherant attempts at sounding like you have a clue...

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    It's interesting that when you run out of stuff, you rather post something about how you don't understand over spending a few minutes to regroup. Simply because you can assume the Ostrich syndrome doesn't mean that others are doing the same.

  37. #37
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    Ummm OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    It's interesting that when you run out of stuff, you rather post something about how you don't understand over spending a few minutes to regroup. Simply because you can assume the Ostrich syndrome doesn't mean that others are doing the same.

    I'll keep that in mind...

  38. #38
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    I Guess I'll Buy That...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    "Their"
    "There's"
    "Which"

    Of course, Titus is known to be stiff compared to manufacturers that put less of a focus on this aspect of design, but there are many others out there known for going way above that level of stiffness.

    Ventana is known for going so far as bucking the trends to produce a stiffer, longer lasting frame while other manufacturers are going the weight weenie route. And Titus is more known for stiff rear ends, rather than the mainframes, BTW.

    And thank you for going that extra mile, with the second paragraph...

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    Good, you were able to understand.

    Now what is the basis for your statement about the Ventana's stiffness being stiffer by an imperceptible margin?

    Stiffness is sometimes what can separate two similar designs from feeling good or like ****. On the Ventana side of things, one must take into consideration that the engineer is also the machinist and builder.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Good, you were able to understand.

    Now what is the basis for your statement about the Ventana's stiffness being stiffer by an imperceptible margin?

    Stiffness is sometimes what can separate two similar designs from feeling good or like ****. On the Ventana side of things, one must take into consideration that the engineer is also the machinist and builder.

    Ok... your right, Titus's feel like ****...

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    Can't have a discussion without a tantrum? This is why good comparative info is so hard to find on the Titus board.

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    Yeah!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Can't have a discussion without a tantrum? This is why good comparative info is so hard to find on the Titus board.
    ......
    Last edited by Warp; 08-04-2006 at 08:51 AM.

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    This one could spiral out of control too

    I think a test would be great and possible if enough of us emailed one or two mags. Personally, I think the build quailty and stiffness edge would go to the new El Fuego, which is why I brought it up. Yup, it's all new and I think it came out this year.
    The difference may not be perceived by many but I feel that very fast riders would be able to tell. I have a street motorcycle background and have done many trackdays. I tend to lean mountain bikes way over (stupidly maybe) and since I weight around 185, I can tell the difference in stiffness between many frames when I hit curves fast. I'm no XC Racer though but I think a good Racer would be able to tell as well though it may not change his time any on a given course if the difference is tiny.

    So who do we email- Dirtrag/MBA? I don't read mags so I don't know who does the best reviews and who employs ex-racers to do these tests. It will need more than some All-Mountain rider jumping around some trails. We need a mag that has guys who can ride fast XC-style.

    These are the kings of the mountain in their class so there is no need to get all wound up. You can't go wrong with either one. We are discussing very minute differences here.

    Let's figure out a plan to get the mags to test them. That will be some good reading.

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    I guess you guys agree to disagree....

    Both make very good points and what's more incredible, both arrived to the same conclusion, but from different ways... come on, bury the damn hatchet!

    BA - Yeah, there's no way to measure stiffness... and I would dare to say that the El Fuego is stiffer maybe than the R-X.

    As a lame "proof" of my idea is that Uktrailmonster (he really knows his stuff, he's an F1 suspension engineer) selected the Ventana X-5 over the ML and Turner 5 Spot because of stiffness

    JC - I have to agree with BA in that Titus stiffness do not limit to the rear end. At least my Switchblade and Rzozaya's ML that I had tried, are VERY stiff laterally on the mainframe. God, I'd never thought that my wheels/fork/cockpit would flex as much until I put my components on the Blade... the thing is point and shoot.

    However... I have to agree the most with Asahi... stiffness, suspension and other important parameters come second to fit and geometry.
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    Where the heck is Guava? He's the one who started this, the scoundrel

    Lemme guess- he's probably cruisin' the Loonies/F88 forum

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I guess you guys agree to disagree....

    Both make very good points and what's more incredible, both arrived to the same conclusion, but from different ways... come on, bury the damn hatchet!

    BA - Yeah, there's no way to measure stiffness... and I would dare to say that the El Fuego is stiffer maybe than the R-X.

    As a lame "proof" of my idea is that Uktrailmonster (he really knows his stuff, he's an F1 suspension engineer) selected the Ventana X-5 over the ML and Turner 5 Spot because of stiffness

    JC - I have to agree with BA in that Titus stiffness do not limit to the rear end. At least my Switchblade and Rzozaya's ML that I had tried, are VERY stiff laterally on the mainframe. God, I'd never thought that my wheels/fork/cockpit would flex as much until I put my components on the Blade... the thing is point and shoot.

    However... I have to agree the most with Asahi... stiffness, suspension and other important parameters come second to fit and geometry.

    Your thoughts along with Flyers are well thought out, and for the "most" part I would agree. I was really just atempting to point out that Titus has a great reputaion for stiffness "if rather poorly".

    Anyway, as Flyer pointed out these bikes are so hot that theres really no where an argument on the subject could really take us...

  47. #47
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    This one could spiral out of control too

    I think a test would be great and possible if enough of us emailed one or two mags. Personally, I think the build quailty and stiffness edge would go to the new El Fuego, which is why I brought it up. Yup, it's all new and I think it came out this year.
    The difference may not be perceived by many but I feel that very fast riders would be able to tell. I have a street motorcycle background and have done many trackdays. I tend to lean mountain bikes way over (stupidly maybe) and since I weight around 185, I can tell the difference in stiffness between many frames when I hit curves fast. I'm no XC Racer though but I think a good Racer would be able to tell as well though it may not change his time any on a given course if the difference is tiny.

    So who do we email- Dirtrag/MBA? I don't read mags so I don't know who does the best reviews and who employs ex-racers to do these tests. It will need more than some All-Mountain rider jumping around some trails. We need a mag that has guys who can ride fast XC-style.

    These are the kings of the mountain in their class so there is no need to get all wound up. You can't go wrong with either one. We are discussing very minute differences here.

    Let's figure out a plan to get the mags to test them. That will be some good reading.

    Interesting concept, Flyer... but I can almost see MBA's summary... with three "winners". Actually no american mag would do a true "deadmatch" comparison.

    But I'd love to see this deadmatch on an UK mag... these guys don't take prisioners.

    You have an excellent point!!! There are no mags for ADVANCED, SERIOUS riders who already know how to mount a wheel, tune a suspension, carve perfectly a switchback, etc. Most are written like if we were all riding Huffy's and we'd all had just seen dirt for the first time.

    Any mag editors out there listening?
    It'd sell like beers at a football game!
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  48. #48
    "Its All Good"
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    Well for me this thread was interesting, but yet again it has gone dog.

    When I decided to purchase a new frame. The frames on my list were: Turner, Ventana, Titus, Intense................ Have had two Ellsworths, so wanted a change.

    I studied hard, posted, talked, read etc etc. In the end I chose the ExoGrid ML purely becasue I could nto find all out bad reviews on it. Call me shallow, but there was the odd neg comment, but no rants on how the bike sucked etc. I found these posts on all the others, not huge numbers, but enough to make me think. Service was also a big thing. For me I would have different opinions if indeed I lived in the US of A. Things are around you and not far away, different on the other side of the world...

    I rode the Ventana, not much, and yes it is a stiff beast, heavy in my opinon. Have spent a decent amount of time ona 5 Spot. Nice ride for sure, but not my cup of tea... So hence went with the ML. And believe me, have copped some sh!t about spending this on a frame, but didnt just jump into it eyes closed.

    The frame is a large part, but setup and the other bits n bobs has a large part to play, as does the sus, front and rare.......

    I would love to see a shootout, but dont knwo of a mag that really tells it how it is..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  49. #49
    And if not, why not?
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    Is it me? Is everyone making nice on f88 when I'm not there? Am I the catalyst of discord? What a gift!
    campmor.com

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    http://www.campmor.com/html/h2h.shtml

  50. #50
    And if not, why not?
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    OK, the ventana is out. I checked it out. It does look like a beautiful, and very stiff bike BTW. The head tube angle is STEEPER than the other bikes! 71.2! It also has a shorter top tube and less standover. It's really gorgeous, but it's not for me.
    campmor.com

    new york/new jersey xc race series:
    http://www.campmor.com/html/h2h.shtml

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