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  1. #1
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    RS Pearl 3.1 on Moto-Lite

    Hi All!

    Now I'm riding a Moto-Lite 06 with Manitou Swinger 3-way air. I've always loved this shock, but now thinking if I should switch to RS Pearl 3.1. Front forks is Revelation 426 Dual Air. There are 2 questions:

    1. Will Pearl fit? It has a large air sleeve, so I'm a bit aware that it will be TOO big to put it on ML and will interfere with top tube. Do you have any ideas or experience?

    2. Is it worth doing it? I hope it will cost just a few bucks since I'm going to sell my old shock.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Evteev
    Hi All!

    Now I'm riding a Moto-Lite 06 with Manitou Swinger 3-way air. I've always loved this shock, but now thinking if I should switch to RS Pearl 3.1. Front forks is Revelation 426 Dual Air. There are 2 questions:

    1. Will Pearl fit? It has a large air sleeve, so I'm a bit aware that it will be TOO big to put it on ML and will interfere with top tube. Do you have any ideas or experience?

    2. Is it worth doing it? I hope it will cost just a few bucks since I'm going to sell my old shock.
    Intresting, why the Pearl? Just a honest Q....

  3. #3
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    Intresting, why the Pearl? Just a honest Q....
    They're cheaper than the comparable RP23 and the 3.3 has nice adjustments (platform threshold and ...

    The large air canister (think Fox's HV sleeve) and crazy low pressures could make it work like a coil-over increasing plushness and Motion Control has proven to be good stuff.

    The only downsides have been reliability... but honestly, I haven't heard much from them after initial release.

    Check this out... I'll be retiring my Float soon and getting a Magura Hugin anytime soon...
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    .....Check this out... I'll be retiring my Float soon and getting a Magura Hugin anytime soon...
    Why doesnt it surprise me that you're going Magura's way? Cool

  5. #5
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    Search "Pearl" in the Turner Forum. Some guy just put one on his Spot. You may want to PM him...

    Warp, the singletrack police are going to get you!
    Last edited by dulyebr; 02-21-2007 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #6
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    Why doesnt it surprise me that you're going Magura's way? Cool
    Well.... their stuff is stupid simple, reliable, performs above the average and comes with an unsurpassed CS. Their suspension products are cheapola stateside while their brakes aren't.
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  7. #7
    "El Whatever"
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    Ok... here's what Singletrack World said about all these dampers, included the Pearl....
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  8. #8
    "El Whatever"
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    Remaining three...
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  9. #9
    "El Whatever"
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    oh... and I just remembered Andrew is at Russia... so availability may be a factor for him.
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  10. #10
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    oh... and I just remembered Andrew is at Russia... so availability may be a factor for him.

    But I am sure Andrew can order from CRC or many german dealers without major issues

  11. #11
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    Guys,

    Thanks a lot for your inputs!! Sorry for delayed reply, it's due to time difference.

    I'm really in Russia. By the way, my Moto-Lite is that one that was ridden by Blizzard_MK )) I bought it from him on Ebay ))

    Now to the shock. I've always used Manitou Swinger Airs on different frames (Jamis Dakar XLT, Specialized Enduro 04) and used to think it's just perfect. Now I use it on Moto-Lite (yeah, I got rid of RP3) and still think it works pretty well. But recently I found a good deal on Pearl 3.1 (sure, Ebay again) and found some info on Swinger Air stating that it's not that good. Well, naturally I began thinking that everything can be known compared one by one, and maybe I just don't know how good the Pearl is ))) And, by the way, If I get rid of my old stuff, upgrading to Swinger would cost not that much.

    Other reasons are obviously described by Warp - large air can, adjustments, and I thought it would be a pretty good match for my Revelation up front. As for reliability, reviews show that it's OK, and I asked a couple of guys who left a review about it, and both said that it's reliable.

    Overall, if I decide to go for it, I'll post back comparison of Swinger and Pearl if someone is interested.

    P.S. By the way, Rzozaya, I know you changed Talas to Revelation and now to Marzocchi AM SL 1. I used to be a Zocchi fan, but now switched to Revelation and going to test it thoroughly ))

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Evteev
    ........P.S. By the way, Rzozaya, I know you changed Talas to Revelation and now to Marzocchi AM SL 1. I used to be a Zocchi fan, but now switched to Revelation and going to test it thoroughly ))
    you'll like the Revelation, it's a good fork. I just had an UGI attack and went with the AM Anyway, to be honest, the AM SL 1 is better for the type of riding I do.

  13. #13
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    UGI!!! Yeah!! That's it!! It really IS the main reason why I want the RS Pearl! It explains everything. No more questions ))

    I've read this thread about UGI. I'm with you. I've swapped ten bikes during three and a half years! Moto-Lite is the eleventh. My wife is REALLY patient... My only excuse is that I always have only one bike at a time and sell all my old stuff to fund new and new UGIs...

  14. #14
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    Thought I might offer my experience with the Pearl 3.3 on my ML.

    I had a Pearl mounted to the ML for ~1 month and spent a minimum of 20 hrs ride time on the shock on primarily my local loop (http://www.geoladders.com/show_route.php?route=88). I was focused on comparing the Pearl to my PUSHed Float R in a "controlled" format with the end goal of utilizing full travel without excessive sag (>30%). Yes, I am one of these "travel-challenged" XC guys focused on climbing and mileage, not drops and technical riding. I was only obtaining full travel on my PUSHed Float R (standard air sleeve) when running >30% sag, which I found to severly compromise climbing performance due to severe squating. My impressions of the Pearl were:

    1) Difficulty obtaining the proper mounting hardware for the ML. Eventually, Chad @ Red Barn was able to locate a slightly larger set of hardware which I had machined down to the proper size.

    2) Overall, I would agree with the Singletrack assesment of shock permormance.
    --I initially expected the shock to have excellent small pump performance due to the large air canister and low pressures (65psi vs. 140-145psi in Float R), however this performance metric is clearly inferior to a PUSHed shock.
    --Performance on square edge hits, particularily repetitive hits, was again inferior to my default PUSHed shock. It was very difficult to tune the shock for high speed chatter. I tried a variety of air pressures and rebound settings. Ultimately, I settled on around 25% sag and a fast rebound setting.
    --Large G-outs were handled quite well, I would say on par with my default shock.
    --Pedalling performance was excellent. This was clearly the one parameter that the Pearl exceeded the performance of the PUSHed Float R. Of course, I would expect the difference in performance to be significantly less on a RP3 or RP23. However, the tunability of the Motion Control combined with the choice of full open, Motion Control or Lockout positions really makes this a flexible shock for tuning pedalling performance. As always with the ML, traction was excellent on technical climbs.

    I recently purchased a large volume air canister from PUSH (the KEG) for my PUSHed Float R and have an equal number of hours (compared to the Pearl) on this setup. I feel for my style of riding, this is clearly a superior setup. I now obtain full travel with the proper 20-25% sag, don't have excessive squating while climbing and retain all of the PUSH benefits. I plan on purchasing a Roco R upon availability and comparing the performance with the Pearl and KEGed Float R.

    Sorry for the long winded response, but hopefully this helps.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by superherodoc
    Thought I might offer my experience with the Pearl 3.3 on my ML.

    I had a Pearl mounted to the ML for ~1 month and spent a minimum of 20 hrs ride time on the shock on primarily my local loop (http://www.geoladders.com/show_route.php?route=88). I was focused on comparing the Pearl to my PUSHed Float R in a "controlled" format with the end goal of utilizing full travel without excessive sag (>30%). Yes, I am one of these "travel-challenged" XC guys focused on climbing and mileage, not drops and technical riding. I was only obtaining full travel on my PUSHed Float R (standard air sleeve) when running >30% sag, which I found to severly compromise climbing performance due to severe squating. My impressions of the Pearl were:

    1) Difficulty obtaining the proper mounting hardware for the ML. Eventually, Chad @ Red Barn was able to locate a slightly larger set of hardware which I had machined down to the proper size.

    2) Overall, I would agree with the Singletrack assesment of shock permormance.
    --I initially expected the shock to have excellent small pump performance due to the large air canister and low pressures (65psi vs. 140-145psi in Float R), however this performance metric is clearly inferior to a PUSHed shock.
    --Performance on square edge hits, particularily repetitive hits, was again inferior to my default PUSHed shock. It was very difficult to tune the shock for high speed chatter. I tried a variety of air pressures and rebound settings. Ultimately, I settled on around 25% sag and a fast rebound setting.
    --Large G-outs were handled quite well, I would say on par with my default shock.
    --Pedalling performance was excellent. This was clearly the one parameter that the Pearl exceeded the performance of the PUSHed Float R. Of course, I would expect the difference in performance to be significantly less on a RP3 or RP23. However, the tunability of the Motion Control combined with the choice of full open, Motion Control or Lockout positions really makes this a flexible shock for tuning pedalling performance. As always with the ML, traction was excellent on technical climbs.

    I recently purchased a large volume air canister from PUSH (the KEG) for my PUSHed Float R and have an equal number of hours (compared to the Pearl) on this setup. I feel for my style of riding, this is clearly a superior setup. I now obtain full travel with the proper 20-25% sag, don't have excessive squating while climbing and retain all of the PUSH benefits. I plan on purchasing a Roco R upon availability and comparing the performance with the Pearl and KEGed Float R.

    Sorry for the long winded response, but hopefully this helps.

    Thanks for the detailed response!!!

    Did you got the chance to try different "Iso-Cushion" negative springs? A firmer one should have given more small bump compliance... maybe?
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  16. #16
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    Excellent question Warp. I haven't tried the various IsoLite negative springs, but I have considered ordering one to further tune the shock. I think there is potential in the Pearl, but it may take someone like PUSH to make this shock really shine.

    I will take some pictures of the shocks and post later to illustrate the differences is size.

  17. #17
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    The can known as the "keg" is the Santa Cruz specific EXTRA high volume canister. The high volume can is generally standard on the DHX-Air, and then the lowest volume Fox can is what is typically seen on the Rp(2)3. But, more and more you're seeing the the DHX-Air can on the the Rp23, eg. Turner Spot & Knolly Endorphin

    Push warned that putting the DHX-Air canister on a MotoLite would lead to bottoming out the shock too easily. All Mountain who by mistake ordered the Santa Cruz Extra high volume can (aka Keg) said he would in fact bottom it easily, and put the standard low volume canister back on his bike. Chris97021 reported that his girlfriend's high voulme Rp3 on his MotoLite also said it was too easy to bottom it on jumps. Chris, do you know if you had the extra HV sleeve or size in between?

    Personally, I have the DHX-Air which I like a lot, but I have the bottom-out adjustment as off as possible and I've only bottomed it twice. I think it's perfect since I get full travel (finally), but rarely bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if the DHX-Air sleeve on the Rp3 were a very good match for the MotoLite inspite of what Push says. Unfortunately, I sold my Rp3 or I would confirm this myself. I know a few people bought the DHX-Air canisters to replace their standard, but I haven't heard anything about what they thought.

  18. #18
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    The can known as the "keg" is the Santa Cruz specific EXTRA high volume canister. The high volume can is generally standard on the DHX-Air, and then the lowest volume Fox can is what is typically seen on the Rp(2)3. But, more and more you're seeing the the DHX-Air can on the the Rp23, eg. Turner Spot & Knolly Endorphin

    Push warned that putting the DHX-Air canister on a MotoLite would lead to bottoming out the shock too easily. All Mountain who by mistake ordered the Santa Cruz Extra high volume can (aka Keg) said he would in fact bottom it easily, and put the standard low volume canister back on his bike. Chris97021 reported that his girlfriend's high voulme Rp3 on his MotoLite also said it was too easy to bottom it on jumps. Chris, do you know if you had the extra HV sleeve or size in between?

    Personally, I have the DHX-Air which I like a lot, but I have the bottom-out adjustment as off as possible and I've only bottomed it twice. I think it's perfect since I get full travel (finally), but rarely bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if the DHX-Air sleeve on the Rp3 were a very good match for the MotoLite inspite of what Push says. Unfortunately, I sold my Rp3 or I would confirm this myself. I know a few people bought the DHX-Air canisters to replace their standard, but I haven't heard anything about what they thought.
    He's got the shock Pushed... so, there may be some difference...
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by superherodoc
    I recently purchased a large volume air canister from PUSH (the KEG) for my PUSHed Float R and have an equal number of hours (compared to the Pearl) on this setup. I feel for my style of riding, this is clearly a superior setup. I now obtain full travel with the proper 20-25% sag, don't have excessive squating while climbing and retain all of the PUSH benefits. I plan on purchasing a Roco R upon availability and comparing the performance with the Pearl and KEGed Float R.
    Yup, the KEG is good stuff for XC Enduro distance when you want to use the travel on a ride

    Cushy plush ride for the long hauls, especially on those trails littered with reasonable sized roots or rocks. Mows over them in comfort.

    Hill climbs for me required more propedal than normal.

    Yup, my KEG sits in the shed but I had great fun with it on the XC stuff along with a set of CrossMarks LUST's. I did heaps of XC riding and really enjoyed it.

  20. #20
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    I believe Dulyebr is correct regarding the model of HV air sleeve I currently have installed. My mistake. I dug through some old threads (HV Air Sleeve INFO...) to compare with posted pics and I believe I have the smaller size. I will confirm the size tonight and repost. If it is not the KEG, I definately want to try one.... Interested in selling yours All Mountain??

    Regardless of which size the new air sleeve I have, all I know is that I am MUCH happier with the ride quality than I was previously. I was on the verge of selling the ML because I couldn't obtain the suspension qualities I wanted, but now I'm satisified with the suspension. I now have a rear shock that feels controlled through the entire stroke, doesn't pack up, excellent small bump sensitivity and aids in climbing.

    If I had to summarize the different shocks in a couple of words it would be:

    Pearl 3.3 = unrefined
    stock Fox Float R = constipated
    PUSHed Float R = much improved, but unsatisfied
    HV PUSHed Float R = meets expectations
    Roco Air R = ???---next project

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by superherodoc
    I believe Dulyebr is correct regarding the model of HV air sleeve I currently have installed. My mistake. I dug through some old threads (HV Air Sleeve INFO...) to compare with posted pics and I believe I have the smaller size. I will confirm the size tonight and repost. If it is not the KEG, I definately want to try one.... Interested in selling yours All Mountain??

    Regardless of which size the new air sleeve I have, all I know is that I am MUCH happier with the ride quality than I was previously. I was on the verge of selling the ML because I couldn't obtain the suspension qualities I wanted, but now I'm satisified with the suspension. I now have a rear shock that feels controlled through the entire stroke, doesn't pack up, excellent small bump sensitivity and aids in climbing.

    If I had to summarize the different shocks in a couple of words it would be:

    Pearl 3.3 = unrefined
    stock Fox Float R = constipated
    PUSHed Float R = much improved, but unsatisfied
    HV PUSHed Float R = meets expectations
    Roco Air R = ???---next project

    My KEG has been up for free trial use to anybody. I will post it to anybody, if they are willing to post it back to me (in Oz) or to Warp (in Mex). If it finds a real happy home we can discuss things.

    Cheers
    AM

  22. #22
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    I (ok, the wife has) have the super vollume keg. It's back on her bike now since I am finally getting to mess with the Roco TST.

    Chris

  23. #23
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    superherodoc,

    Thanks a lot for your response. As Warp mentioned, sometimes availability is a problem since I'm in Russia. Thus, obtaining a PUSHed shock is possible, but can be quite an expensive project.

    I weigh about 200 lbs, hope this helps Pearl to shine on small bumps )) I didn't like the stock RP3 much, thought that large air can could help me, but it's not that easy to get one. Manitou Swinger is better than RP3.

    Thanks again to everyone, your inputs mean a lot! ))

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Evteev
    UGI!!! Yeah!! That's it!! It really IS the main reason why I want the RS Pearl! It explains everything. No more questions ))

    I've read this thread about UGI.
    Thank you! I didn't want to sound like a Homer and ask.

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