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  1. #1
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    RP3 + '05 ML = copious pedal bob for big rider???

    Hope y'all can help.......

    built up an '05 Moto-lite with RP3 for a friend who weighs about 215lbs.....pushed about 280lbs of pressure into the bugger and he still gets a very noticeable amount of pedal bob on all 3 settings.....am i missing something here??....got the sag set to 25% of the stanchion throw....or is this shock fragged and time to get PUSH'd

    any and all advice is welcome.......


    PS - i tried the search...it won't search on 3 characters...like "RP3"
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  2. #2
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    Hope y'all can help.......

    built up an '05 Moto-lite with RP3 for a friend who weighs about 215lbs.....pushed about 280lbs of pressure into the bugger and he still gets a very noticeable amount of pedal bob on all 3 settings.....am i missing something here??....got the sag set to 25% of the stanchion throw....or is this shock fragged and time to get PUSH'd

    any and all advice is welcome.......


    PS - i tried the search...it won't search on 3 characters...like "RP3"
    sounds like its a small ML. the smalls have a higher leverage ratio, with a 1.5 inch stroke shock. I've probably posted elevety billion times that big short guys need to avoid the small ML at all costs. if so you are screwed, If yall are stuck with it, then run it in 4 inch mode.

    or your shock is broke....

    I weigh 220-250 depending on the time of year and never have I run hihger then 220 psi on my large ML.

  3. #3
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    sounds like its a small ML. the smalls have a higher leverage ratio, with a 1.5 inch stroke shock. I've probably posted elevety billion times that big short guys need to avoid the small ML at all costs. if so you are screwed, If yall are stuck with it, then run it in 4 inch mode.

    or your shock is broke....

    I weigh 220-250 depending on the time of year and never have I run hihger then 220 psi on my large ML.
    fawk!!....it's a small......how about PUSH'ing the bugger?......
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  4. #4
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    Hey Demo,
    Are you running an RP3 or an RP23. Whats your compression setting set to?

  5. #5
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    fawk!!....it's a small......how about PUSH'ing the bugger?......
    That could help...

    The Small ML has lighter tubing too....
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    That could help...

    The Small ML has lighter tubing too....
    nice....very nice......
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  7. #7
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    nice....very nice......
    Oh, my apologies... Didn't intend to be rude. Again, not my intention.

    Just to let you know if you didn't.
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  8. #8
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguysmallbike
    Hey Demo,
    Are you running an RP3 or an RP23. Whats your compression setting set to?
    I had an RP3, pushed it... big improvement on a RP3. but I wanted firmer propedal option. now I have a used RP23 with middle propedal. my ML is my XC bike, so the stock RP23 is great. I flip the lever a lot. I generally use setting 3 like a soft lockout for fire road climbs. if its rolling hills with no steep climbs I wont flip it on at all. I've used setting one a bunch.

  9. #9
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    Okay, i think i need to upgrade my rp23 to one with firmer compression. Currently my rp23 is set to the lightest compression and propedal 3 feels more like a very soft lockout. I'm getting a lot of movement while in pp3 on smooth fireroads. People were telling me to use 77% of my weight as a starting point for pressure, but it sounds like you're more in the 95% of your weight. Maybe i'll give that a try.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Oh, my apologies... Didn't intend to be rude. Again, not my intention.

    Just to let you know if you didn't.
    just razzin' you bro'.....i take consistent and vigorous abuse on other forums on a regular basis.....
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  11. #11
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    I take consistent and vigorous abuse on other forums on a regular basis.....
    OK... we can provide some more...
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  12. #12
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    fawk!!....it's a small......how about PUSH'ing the bugger?......
    I wouldn't push it. I'd get a new bike. any five inch bike with a 2 inch stroke shock should be OK, they are more common these days. or Ventana can build your buddy what he needs, a strong stiff, small bike with a low leverage ratio.....

    anyway...learn from the mistake and move on. try it in 4 inch mode to prove the point to him, in 4 inch mode it will have a clyde frendly 2.6 to 1 leverage ratio..

    a Small ML is a fantastic fit for short light people. most other bikes have one size fits all suspension. I think its a great feature that titus has sized the suspension for the target rider. the higher leverage ratio is a advantage for lighter peoples.

  13. #13
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    You may want to try slowing your rebound a bit also as you go up in air pressure...

  14. #14
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    I weigh 285lbs before gear and found that what works best for me is 77% of bodyweight. I tried it higher but it pedal bobbed like mad. I saw the 77% figure on this forum and lowered the pressure. Speeded up the rebound and now it rides perfect. It is an 06 medium with rp3.

  15. #15
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguysmallbike
    Okay, i think i need to upgrade my rp23 to one with firmer compression. Currently my rp23 is set to the lightest compression and propedal 3 feels more like a very soft lockout. I'm getting a lot of movement while in pp3 on smooth fireroads. People were telling me to use 77% of my weight as a starting point for pressure, but it sounds like you're more in the 95% of your weight. Maybe i'll give that a try.
    yeah, I guess I am running about 85-90% body weight. but really I just set it just over 0.5 inch of shock stroke sag.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcrent100
    You may want to try slowing your rebound a bit also as you go up in air pressure...
    yup, that would help too. good input. but with that high of a PSI he maybe out of the adjustible range of the rebound.

  16. #16
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    I'm 215-220 with gear, and when i have my shock pumped up to 77%, i get more than .5" of sag. I also notice a good amount of shock movement while climbing, even in pp3. I'm running full rebound speed.

  17. #17
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguysmallbike
    I'm 215-220 with gear, and when i have my shock pumped up to 77%, i get more than .5" of sag. I also notice a good amount of shock movement while climbing, even in pp3. I'm running full rebound speed.
    Try running more rebound.

    I'm not certain, but I guess on the RP shocks, there is a common bleed. So, turning up the rebound will increase some the compression damping too.

    Not to mention that the bob you're feeling, may be due to the shock rebounding too fast.
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  18. #18
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    For the last time, don't go by bodyweight! Go by sag.

  19. #19
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguysmallbike
    I'm 215-220 with gear, and when i have my shock pumped up to 77%, i get more than .5" of sag. I also notice a good amount of shock movement while climbing, even in pp3. I'm running full rebound speed.
    I've been quoting my weight naked.

  20. #20
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    OK....got some additional advice....and a buddy who is selling a PUSH'd RP3 that is tuned for the same weight and riding style,

    We'll give the PUSH'd RP3 a shot first - I'll post on what we find....

    Secondly I was advised that the Spring Curve can be adjusted by using the Air Volume Adjustment.....basically adding oil to the air chamber to take up space. In doing this you shrink the air chamber relative to the piston size thus decreasing amount of pressure needed for sag and improving pedal bob.

    Ultimately demo_slug may be right on the money....and running this ML in 4" mode may be the best solution....i'm just not ready to give up yet
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  21. #21
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    Secondly I was advised that the Spring Curve can be adjusted by using the Air Volume Adjustment.....basically adding oil ot the air to take up space. In doing this you shrink the air chamber relative to the piston size thus decreasing amount of pressure needed for sag and improving pedal bob.
    Not such a good idea... Oil can migrate from the positive to negative chamber and cause stuckdown.

    At least Push advises against it.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Not such a good idea... Oil can migrate from the positive to negative chamber and cause stuckdown.

    At least Push advises against it.
    the advice came from Titus tech support - of course they recommended a shop do it....if i try it i'm sure something will catch on fire...somehow.....

    I'll look into the internal-pos-neg-oil-leakage-sticky-issue.....ugh......this is all to much for an art school graduate
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  23. #23
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    the advice came from Titus tech support - of course they recommended a shop do it....if i try it i'm sure something will catch on fire...somehow.....

    I'll look into the internal-pos-neg-oil-leakage-sticky-issue.....ugh......this is all to much for an art school graduate
    make a search for posts by user "PUSHIND"
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    make a search for posts by user "PUSHIND"
    Will do......and it looks like a Fox AVA is an actual "Sleeve" that a rider can change the volume of air by simply dialing it in or out:

    Certain FLOAT Fox Load Optimum Air Technology. Delivers the performance of a coil spring with the adjustability and light weight of an air shock. models feature AVA (see picture at right), a technology that affords new levels of fine-tuning adjustment. The AVA air sleeve replaces the standard air sleeve on your FLOAT rear shock. AVA increases or decreases the volume of the positive air spring chamber, which allows the rider to alter the shape of the spring curve. The AVA system can create a shock with a 30% more linear spring rate Force required to compress a spring one inch. than a standard FLOAT shock. AVA allows as much as 200 lbs. of bottom-out adjustment.

    Link

    I tell ya...too many options.......i have the IQ of a hamster...my brain is gonna pop trying to figure all this out
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  25. #25
    the 36 year old grom
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    it is a red moto-lite right?

    1. if you put too much fluid in you will/can get hydrolic lock up. which might crack the shock.
    2. the AVA was out of production and I've been told that the older AVAs have the wrong threads to fit on a new RPs.
    3. what exactly are you trying to acomplish? more mid stroke compresion damping more bottom out resistance????
    4. Durablity: the high leverage ratio also means more localized stress on the suspension components. not to mention the whole bike is made with lighter tubing then the bigger bikes.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    it is a red moto-lite right?
    red as rudolph's nose after a nite o......ummm...yes...it's red

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    1. if you put too much fluid in you will/can get hydrolic lock up. which might crack the shock.
    that's why I would seek out a shop pro......or several.....

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    2. the AVA was out of production and I've been told that the older AVAs have the wrong threads to fit on a new RPs.
    you're prolly right...i'm just bouncing around gathering as much info as i can

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    3. what exactly are you trying to acomplish? more mid stroke compresion damping more bottom out resistance????
    yup on the midstroke compression dampening.....not a problem with bottoming out (as of now)....also improvement on the 3 PP settings

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    4. Durablity: the high leverage ratio also means more localized stress on the suspension components. not to mention the whole bike is made with lighter tubing then the bigger bikes.
    OK...so you're trying to say anyone over XXXlbs can't ride specific sizes of Titus ML's???....i've yet to read, or hear from Titus (after a specific and direct question) that their S and XS ML's have a weight limit.......my Eggbeater 4ti's do.....and other random chichi components...but not these frames so far as I know.....

    First - we try my buddy's PUSH'd RP3 and see if that improvement is gonna work.....in the meantime i'm scaring up as much info as I can from multiple sources on how to improve this specific issue......and again, you might be right - if so he'll prolly then run the bad boy in 4" mode and be happy as a clam.......
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  27. #27
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    OK...so you're trying to say anyone over XXXlbs can't ride specific sizes of Titus ML's???....i've yet to read, or hear from Titus (after a specific and direct question) that their S and XS ML's have a weight limit.......my Eggbeater 4ti's do.....and other random chichi components...but not these frames so far as I know.....
    It's not a matter of "how much", but "how long".

    In layman terms and oversimplifying...

    A given material can take 100 blows of a 4lb hammer or 3000 from a 1/2lb one; same for the bike... Get the idea??
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  28. #28
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    It's not a matter of "how much", but "how long".

    In layman terms and oversimplifying...

    A given material can take 100 blows of a 4lb hammer or 3000 from a 1/2lb one; same for the bike... Get the idea??
    I hear ya Warp....a 150lb rider is gonna go thru frames slower than a 200lb rider.....but the Moto-Lite is still an "All Mountain" frame......a trail rig that is built to handle harsher trail conditions and "light'ish" drops.....i figure they are ALL "over-built" to be on the tougher side of things......and a rider who currently weighs 215lbs should have just about as many issues regarding frame integrity on this model as a 180lb rider....but i've been wrong before...

    is there anyone from Titus on these boards who wants to pipe in for the record and state that the Small 2005 ML is/was not built for a 215lb Clyde???...if so I will recommend that my friend get a new frame
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    I hear ya Warp....a 150lb rider is gonna go thru frames slower than a 200lb rider.....but the Moto-Lite is still an "All Mountain" frame......a trail rig that is built to handle harsher trail conditions and "light'ish" drops.....i figure they are ALL "over-built" to be on the tougher side of things......and a rider who currently weighs 215lbs should have just about as many issues regarding frame integrity on this model as a 180lb rider....but i've been wrong before...

    is there anyone from Titus on these boards who wants to pipe in for the record and state that the Small 2005 ML is/was not built for a 215lb Clyde???...if so I will recommend that my friend get a new frame
    Chum,

    Sungchang rides a small ML (I'm pretty sure it's a small) and is about 200#. AFAIK, he has not broken anything, but you should give him a call. Re. your problem, I switched from an RP3 to an RP23 (got a great deal on a slightly used one), and the PP is waaay better. Basically, you can run more sag and still get a firmer efficient ride when switching on the PP. Personnally, I found that the right pressure for the small shock is about 115% of your body weight. As usual, YMMV.

    I'm planning on switching mine to a mean 4" XC machine sometimes next year once I get a new frame for my All Mountain duty.

    Of course, you could also buy the frame for your fiancee. It'd complement her RX very well.
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  30. #30
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    I weigh 195 and ride a small...........yes it is finicky for us big bones (PSI gotta be within less then 5 lbs for ideal ride) and yes Zorgs calculation is pretty close to what I am running. There have been a number of big bone riders on the small ML's.(SungChang also came to mind.....wasn't he originally 230+ lbs?????) Too be honest, the only ML that I have seen mutilated and broken beyond belief was Woodyaks and he is not that large of an individual, just a hard rider.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    is there anyone from Titus on these boards who wants to pipe in for the record and state that the Small 2005 ML is/was not built for a 215lb Clyde???...if so I will recommend that my friend get a new frame
    I think it's more that a 1.5" stroke shock used to get 5" travel is a poor choice for a clyde, though it's ideal if you weigh say under 150lbs. That's a 3.3:1 ratio. The frame can handle the abuse, but the ride qualities will suffer for sure. If it was me, I would sell the frame instead of wasting money on custom valving.

    When I first got my Switchblade, I picked up a 4.5" linkage using a 6.5"x1.5" shock. I weighed 210lbs, and it was terrible. Tons of bob despite high pressure, and I eventually killed the shock. I'm sure your friend will too. The high leverage ratio and high PSI means early shock death.

    My Super-Moto in 6" mode has a 2.18:1 ratio. It's so easy to make small shock adjustments with the low ratio, and it just works better IMO, even though I am no longer a clyde.

  32. #32
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    OK...so you're trying to say anyone over XXXlbs can't ride specific sizes of Titus ML's???........
    I only said it would be less durable.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Chum,

    Sungchang rides a small ML (I'm pretty sure it's a small) and is about 200#. AFAIK, he has not broken anything, but you should give him a call. Re. your problem, I switched from an RP3 to an RP23 (got a great deal on a slightly used one), and the PP is waaay better. Basically, you can run more sag and still get a firmer efficient ride when switching on the PP. Personnally, I found that the right pressure for the small shock is about 115% of your body weight. As usual, YMMV.

    I'm planning on switching mine to a mean 4" XC machine sometimes next year once I get a new frame for my All Mountain duty.

    Of course, you could also buy the frame for your fiancee. It'd complement her RX very well.
    i hear ya on the RP23 - i run a PUSH'd one on my RX (killed mine during a race)...it's awesome... The RX i bought off of Sungchang.....i've got many, many miles on that badboy.....and i see at least 1 more full season before i kill it entirely....good frame

    The frame in question was my fiance's....it was too big...she's now sporting a Hulk green XS MLII at 25lbs even.....will be 23+lbs when i get done with it....

    I know the frame is more than durable enough for a Clyde to ride.....the tone of the post was starting to lean towards a "frame durability" issue....and that's just a bunch of hooey IMO....now the shock issue at the 5" setting prolly has merit.......
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  34. #34
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM
    I know the frame is more than durable enough for a Clyde to ride.....the tone of the post was starting to lean towards a "frame durability" issue....and that's just a bunch of hooey IMO....now the shock issue at the 5" setting prolly has merit.......
    1. just don't come crying to me when the DU bushing wear out.
    2. and don't let woodyak ride it. Snap goes the Moto...

  35. #35
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    OK......here's what happened with the 5", RP3 to PUSH'd RP3 to 4" setting test for my clyde friend on a Small 2005 ML....

    1. As mentioned a million times by demo_slug and Warp....the 5" setting with a stock RP3 was no bueno...not gonna work.....no matter how bad i wanted it to....

    2. The stock RP3 in 4" mode worked actually pretty decent.....not the best...but passable....

    3. The PUSH'd RP3 in 5" mode actually worked OK also.....but freakin' barely....there was noticeable improvement.....and we could prolly convince ourselves it was alright.....if we really squinted our eyes and clicked our heels 3 times while chanting "it's just an active suspension....it's just an active suspension".....

    4. The PUSH'd RP3 in 4" mode is the winner....w/out a doubt.....no need to discuss.....propedal was effective in all 3 settings...no bottoming out.....tracked great on the technical and stayed firm on the climbs

    appreciate all your advice y'all
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